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 Author Thread: Moreton Bay - disaster zone
 hilly1971

Joined: 8/14/2008
Msg: 25
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 1:38:44 PM

It seems the most concern is focused on whether the next tourist season will be abundant or not.

Where the government, sadly the people who control this clean up are concerned probably yes. To many posters in this thread me included, whether tourists suffer is the last thing on our minds in this situation. Personally I dont give a rats if tourists dont have pretty beaches to walk along or tour operators suffer...people reap what they sow.


It played havoc on the wildlife for longer

This is the important bit for me.If spending money to remove what we as humans contaminated the sea here with saves animal lives and helps prevent un necessary deaths and suffering then lets get going and clean this spill up.....maybe thats what you confuse for instant gratification.

Personally, I think Sandy said it as well as can be said.
 Hawaiianluau

Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 26
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 1:53:20 PM
Correction ~ 40 million.
The comment about the focus on tourism was directed at the media and not this thread.


 Hawaiianluau

Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 27
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 2:59:16 PM
After clean up and procedures put in place to avoid the same happening again it's time to focus on the larger issue.
This was an accident. Hopefully it will illuminate how we purposely kill our oceans with a daily barage of poisonous run off and cancer causing elements for our sealife. Poor land management results in destroying a thousand times more natural habitat than this one event and we gleefully participate with development and redirecting the normal course of nature.
If awareness is heightend by the result of this accident then some good will come of it in the form of doing something with the things that we can make a difference about.
 bucky140

Joined: 1/31/2008
Msg: 28
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 4:29:47 PM
It always amazes me how we wait for something like this too happen before we realize that the process we have in place to deal with it is inadequate.The thing that has disturbed me is the downplay that came from everyone from the ships captain to the EPA to the govenment.The captain reported that the ship had lost 30 ton of oil,heard reports from so called experts that thats not much.30 ton...my dumb maths still equates that as about 20 000 litres.I'd call that fairly serious,wouldn't like it spilled in my backyard.As we now know,the figure was more like 230 000 litres,i'd say it was even more.

The ship wouldn't of lost the containers if he put the bow into the running seas.Instead the captain had one thing on his mind and that was to get into the Port of Brisbane as quick as he could.So he drove the ship with the running seas side on,recipe for disaster and as its turned out,it was.With the seas hitting the side of the ship it was rolling 45 degrees from one side to the other,no hope the containers were going to stay in place.I'd like to know how a container can hole the side of a ship,i know they are big but how thick was the metal on the side of the ship or is it because the ship was pooly maintained.Can they put bladders in the ships around there fuel oil tanks to stop this happening.I know it comes down to cost,how much cost to the enviroment does it need before we act.

My own opinion is the EPA were too slow in acting when they were notified of the spill.I've heard reports the chanel 7 helicopter reported and taped the oil heading towards the coast but nothing was done for 36 hours.Why didn't the EPA act faster or were they downplaying the incident on the report of it being "only" 30 tons.Surely they have reponse protocols to deal with spills like this.They didn't seem to have a clue on what to do and seemed to be making up what to do about it as they went on.Was that the reason for the tippy toe approch or didn't anyone want to make the hard decisions that needed to be made quickly.

If one thing comes out of this disaster,i hope the govenment and EPA put protocols in place to deal with situations like this and have faster reponse times than the time it took to respond to this.If they already have,they need to rethink them cos it wasn't good enough.

I fear there is a lot more marine and birdlife that'll be effected than what is being reported,another downplay.

31 containers of deadly toxic poison floating or sinking off our coast ready to become timebomb for the marine life and destroy the marine eco environment.I think we need to find them and pass the recovery and clean up bill on to the shipping company.
 soulmate08

Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 29
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 4:54:19 PM
This was an accident. Hopefully it will illuminate how we purposely kill our oceans with a daily barage of poisonous run off and cancer causing elements for our sealife. Poor land management results in destroying a thousand times more natural habitat than this one event and we gleefully participate with development and redirecting the normal course of nature.
If awareness is heightend by the result of this accident then some good will come of it in the form of doing something with the things that we can make a difference about


I understand what your saying there...^^^^^^..
There was a thread here recently about summer.. On that thread I alluded to some sunscreen 's I wouldnt use..... At the time the aust govt.. was looking into the nano particles and possible consequences on applying to childrens skin etc....
I hesitated in saying anything..b/c I figured most parents would check ingredients before applying to children or themselves..(but this about the affects on nature from human chemicals on their bodies)

I live in the bush or a rural place.. we have waterholes/...waterfalls..creeks.. some people get their water from creeks.. animals drink from these creeks etc..

It's frustrating when tourists... (locals wouldnt usually wear makeup/shampoo perfumes/deodorants containing chemicals damaging to human dna nor wildlife)
so when you know these chemicals are known to impact our creeks..frog spawn etc..
and you know once the damage is done..etc... Its just sad and frustrating..

Ive gone through lots of research here to try and find a balanced view... as there are sunscreens that don't damage the enviornment.. but there are those that do.. research on nano technology is still..... as always in science.. you'll find some support a theory some don't.. choosing which you use.. is important.. (some cosmetic companies pay for "GOOD studies.. for eg...

AUSTRALIANS are risking their lives by shunning sun protection because of fears some block-out creams contain potentially dangerous chemicals, the NSW Cancer Council warns.

Several Australian academics have questioned the safety of nanoparticles of zinc oxide and titanium dioxide, used in many Australian sunscreens.

Peter Dingle, an associate professor and researcher in health and the environment at Murdoch University, said chemicals used in sunscreen might cause anything from skin rashes to breast cancer.

And Dr Tom Faunce, of the Australian National University's law and medical school, has raised concerns about how easily the chemicals are absorbed by the body.

CSIRO scientist Maxine McCall, who is researching the effects of nanoparticles in sunscreen, said there was potential for the chemicals to damage DNA.

"Potentially, the nanoparticles could cause anything from changes to the chromosomes to, in the worst-case scenario, cancer," she said. "Then again, there could be no biological impact whatsoever. The point is, we just don't know."

The experts are concerned with the use of nanotechnology in manufacturing sunscreens. Chemicals are broken down into nanoparticles - less than one millionth of a millimetre in diameter - to make the cream invisible on the skin.

Because the particles are so tiny, academics believe they can enter the body and interact with proteins in the cells or with DNA.

A recent NSW Parliamentary inquiry concluded that nano versions of existing chemicals should be assessed as new chemicals. The inquiry also recommended that "ingredient labelling requirements for sunscreens and cosmetics include the identification of nano-scale materials".

But in Australia there is no requirement for sunscreen manufacturers to label their nanotechnology products. The regulator, the Therapeutic Goods Administration, said sunscreens with nanotechnology had been used safely in Australia since 1990 and "the risks of excessive sun exposure are well-documented and outweigh the unproven theoretical risks related to nanoparticles". About 70percent of sunscreens with titanium dioxide and 30percent with zinc oxide have these materials in nanoparticle form.

Spokeswoman Kay McNeice said the authority was "looking closely at the recommendations of the NSW Parliamentary inquiry". However, the Cancer Council has urged people to continue using sunscreen.

"Nanotechnology has been around for a long time and there have been no reports suggesting any adverse effects and no research which has determined it is unsafe or harmful," the council's skin cancer prevention manager Kay Coppa said.

"At the moment 1600 people die from skin cancer every year. It is almost entirely preventable. It is a lot more harmful to stop wearing sunscreen. The Cancer Council is very concerned that people will stop using sunscreen because they think that it's dangerous when there is no conclusive evidence to suggest that that is the case," she said.

Dr Dingle said he was not urging people to stop using sunscreen.

"I am telling people to use safer products or simply cover up if they have to go out in the sun," he said.



Slip, slop, slap message still the one
LARA and Sandy Hogg are determined to protect their one-year-old son, Alastair, from sun damage.

"I rock on with using sunscreen," said Mrs Hogg, of Randwick, during a family outing to Clovelly Beach. "It's safer than using none at all."

Mr Hogg said that until any problems associated with lotions had been proved, "we'll still be using sunscreen".

"We're never at the beach without an umbrella, tent, hat, loads of sunscreen - the works."

The Hamiltons, of Glenwood, are also devotees of sunscreen.

"I lost a cousin to melanoma, and another one was treated for it. I tend to burn easily as well," Jason said at Clovelly Beach.

His wife, Karen, said: "The kids don't burn that easily but we've always tried to cover them up with sunscreen. We used to get them to wear rashies as kids but they won't let us now."

Their daughter, Laura, 18, said the risk of skin cancer outweighed the risks of chemicals, "especially if nothing's been proven yet".

Caris Bizzaca

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/smear-campaign-against-suncream-is-risking-lives/2009/01/10/1231004355070.html

this next article somes up how it affects our enviournment and if anyone is truly interested in the affect on our envionment..Im positive they will investigate this further.. and make wise choices for their family and nature..this is only 1 link..

What You Need to Know About Sunscreen
Sunscreen, is as much a part of summer, as beach days and pool parties and is an essential part of any summer kit. With our South African sun we can’t afford not to use sunscreen but there are some surprising and disturbing facts about the chemicals we are rubbing on ourselves.

Doctors and dermatologists have worked hard to instill the mantra of “sunscreen, sunscreen, sunscreen” into all of us. We know it helps prevent skin cancers and premature skin ageing but do you know the effect all that sunscreen is having on our environment?

If you love to snorkel or enjoy water sports take note - the chemicals in your sunscreen, suntan oils and other products are have a negative effect on sensitive coral reefs. The Great Barrier Reef in Australia has reported the rapid and even complete bleaching of hard corals even in areas exposed to low concentrations of sunscreen. Research has estimated that 4000-6000 metric tons of sunscreen washes off swimmers annually in oceans worldwide threatening roughly 10% of all coral reefs and marine life.

Unfortunately there is more bad news about our trusted sunscreens. Not only is it harming our oceans but it has a negative effect on us too. Research has even shown that sunscreen may actually have a link to the increase in skin cancers diagnosis as it gives people a false sense of security and they will indulge longer in sun exposure causing even more sun damage to their skin.

There is also something called the nano affect in sunscreens that you need to be aware of. No one likes the white stripes of sunscreen on their face so in response manufactures have produced sunscreens that are absorbed into the skin and become transparent. They are able to do this by shrinking the zinc and titanium particles down to nano-size. The problem here is that these particles are small enough to be absorbed past the skin’s barriers and even into the blood-steam. Titanium and zinc are two chemicals you really don’t want absorbed into your skin.

So if you still want to be kind to your skin, and the environment, there really is only one option when replenishing your sunscreen for beach days, pool side laziness, bike rides and hikes this summer – go green.

When greening your sunscreen, look for mineral based sun blocks that aim for transparency, without the nano-particles. These have healthier chemical components than their chemical based counterparts and will protect against both UVA and UVB sunrays. Chemical based sunscreens have also been linked to hormonal changes and DNA damages. Also steer clear of petroleum based sunscreens. Rather choose those with natural ingredients such as jojoba oil or shea and cocoa butter. Look for Dr. Hauschka, Green People, imported by Strawberry International and Health in Nature brands or read your ingredients carefully before purchasing the sunscreen.

Remember to store your sunscreen in a cool place, leaving it in your hot car all day will destroy the chemical compound and leave your sunscreen ineffective.

Here’s to long lazy ‘green’ summer days with braai’s by the pool, family hikes, outdoor picnics and days at the beach – just don’t forget the eco-friendly sunscreen, your skin and the environment will thank-you for it.

http://www.mygreenchoices.co.za/index.php/E-mag-November/What-You-Need-to-Know-About-Sunscreen.html



http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2008/12/is-your-sunsc-1.html
Is your sunscreen dangerous?
Dec 16, 2008
The slip, slop, slap message has probably been one of the more sucessful public health campaigns in recent years.

We all know how important it is to protect our skin from the sun... but could slopping on sunscreen actually be bad for you?

Dr Peter Dingle, an environmental toxicologist from Murdoch University, has released a report (the ABC takes no responsibility for this external site) which highlights that most sunscreen uses old technology. He says safer ingredients include zinc oxide which is much more photostable than titanium dioxide, plant based oils, green tea extract and vitamin E.

According to Dr Dingle, only active ingredients are required to be listed for sunscreen but some of the more toxic components to be aware of -

Avobenzone, Parsol 1789 (butyl methoxy dibenzoylmethane) Benzophenones

Cinoxate (2-ethoxy ethyl p-methoxycinnamate) Dibenzoylmethanes

Escalol 506 (amyl dimethyl para aminobenzoate) Escalol 507 (octyl dimethyl para aminobenzoate)

Ethoxy ethyl-p-methoxy cinamate (Giv-Tan F) Eusolex 8020 (isopropyl dibenzoyl methane)

Homosalate Hydroxy methoxy methylbenzophenone (mexenone) Menadione Methyl sinapate (methyl 3,5-dimethoxy 4- hydroxycinnamate)

Octocrylene Octyl salicylate

Octyl-methoxycinnamate (OMC) Oxybenzone (benzophenone 3)

PABA (para-aminobenzoic acid) Padimate A (amyl para-dimethylaminobenzoate

PBSA (2-phenylbenzimidazole-5-sulfonic acid

Psolaren Titanium dioxide


If you check your deodorants..perfumes.skin care shampoos etc.. heres only a small list to check for..
the concern besides our nature being affected... is affecting kids/adults./ dna affects their hormones(growth) female/male characteristics...... these can also imitate eostrogens.. which can increase hormone type cancers... and affect kids development in secondary sexual..growth.. hormones..decreases in also..etc..infertility..
Of course this won"t occurr in everyone equally.. but worth avoiding..
please investigate for yourselves..... there are safe cosmetics..natural that work fine.. without risk..
if you check FGA.... the things needed to be safe/listed.. .. don't assume b/c products are on the shelf.. they are completely disclosed on ingredients..or how much research has actually been done..


excerpt from.http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080129-sunscreen-coral.html

for National Geographic News

January 29, 2008
The sunscreen that you dutifully slather on before a swim on the beach may be protecting your body—but a new study finds that the chemicals are also killing coral reefs worldwide.

Four commonly found sunscreen ingredients can awaken dormant viruses in the symbiotic algae called zooxanthellae that live inside reef-building coral species.

The chemicals cause the viruses to replicate until their algae hosts explode, spilling viruses into the surrounding seawater, where they can infect neighboring coral communities.

Zooxanthellae provide coral with food energy through photosynthesis and contribute to the organisms' vibrant color. Without them, the coral "bleaches"—turns white—and dies.

"The algae that live in the coral tissue and feed these animals explode or are just released by the tissue, thus leaving naked the skeleton of the coral," said study leader Roberto Danovaro of the Polytechnic University of Marche in Italy.

The researchers estimate that 4,000 to 6,000 metric tons of sunscreen wash off swimmers annually in oceans worldwide, and that up to 10 percent of coral reefs are threatened by sunscreen-induced bleaching.

The study appeared online in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives.

Activated Viruses

Danovaro and his team studied the effects of sunscreen exposure on coral samples from reefs in the Pacific, Atlantic, and Indian Oceans.

Even low levels of sunscreen, at or below the typical amount used by swimmers, could activate the algae viruses and completely bleach coral in just four days, the results showed.

Seawater surrounding coral exposed to sunscreen contained up to 15 times more viruses than unexposed samples.

Several brands of popular sunscreens were tested and all had four ingredients in common: paraben, cinnamate, benzophenone, and a camphor derivative.


Continued on Next Page >>




peace
 tarvold

Joined: 10/4/2008
Msg: 30
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 5:52:12 PM
There's also the issue of national security.

30 containers of ammonium nitrate can produce enough explosives to take out pretty much every major landmark in Australia. To put it into perspective, the Oklahoma City bombing used less than 1 container of ammonium nitrate.
 Sandyfreckle

Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 31
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/16/2009 12:37:28 AM
That's right ^^^^ ammonium nitrate, diesel, half a stick of gel and a detonator..., nothing blows a stump out of the ground like it eh what !
so says the tree hugger.

actually correct me if I'm wrong but isnt that the main ingredient within human urine.
if so..., 31 containers of urine is not good for Queensland's Sunnie coast.

Sorry I don't mean to offend..., it is an undoubtedly serious situation for all the finned and feathered marine life.
 PeachSipper

Joined: 3/21/2006
Msg: 32
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/16/2009 1:53:18 AM
no sign of any oil at Coolum today... the water was clear and warm, the sun was hot.. small swell running..perfect for a morning at the beach,,
the worst of it is on Moreton island around the rocks.. and some on Pt Cartwright's rocks,
the beaches on the Sunny coast are clean and near normal... considering the heavy seas last week.. the local council got into it...

another huge swell for a few days would help to disperse it and take most of it off the rocks.. they have been scrubbing some rocks down.. and will continue to...
no telling what residual effects it will have on the bay and it's inhabitants...

a navy minesweeper is going out there in a few days to look for the containers.. then they will decide how or if to get them up...

unless osama has a sub.. and he's already pinched them,lol...
 scholar59

Joined: 10/27/2008
Msg: 33
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:44:20 PM
I finally got to have a brief discussion with the marine biologist that I have been chancing. Apparently the reason that our television screens are not full of dead oil covered birds is that the oil is not toxic enough to kill them. In other climates it stops their feathers working as insulation and so they can’t stay warm and freeze to death; fortunately here it is just not cold enough to kill them. The other thing that they are now worried about is the fertilizer causing an algal bloom; I don’t know what problems that would cause but it is apparently of concern. It seems that we have had some luck the navy is apparently going to find the containers and raise them because they are a danger to the commercial fishing fleet; so arguing about the seriousness of this possible algal bloom is moot.
 PeachSipper

Joined: 3/21/2006
Msg: 34
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/17/2009 7:37:07 PM
they couldn't have picked a better day for a marine search.. the navy is out there today..

light winds, next to no swell.. overcast ..... good day to be outside fishing..

the main concern is that of the trawlers snagging them and capsizing..
they sank in an area frequented by prawn trawlers...

they have stopped selling local prawns at mooloolaba for a while, just to be sure...
it's not worth the chance of a bad batch ruining their business ...
 Naamah

Joined: 11/1/2008
Msg: 35
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/17/2009 8:04:51 PM
Apparently the reason that our television screens are not full of dead oil covered birds is that the oil is not toxic enough to kill them. In other climates it stops their feathers working as insulation and so they can’t stay warm and freeze to death; fortunately here it is just not cold enough to kill them.
Woohoo!! That's brilliant news. You've made my day! And I guess as long as it doesn't clog up the dolphins blow holes when they come up for breath, our animals might just survive this. (Let's hope nobody therefore makes the leap of logic that it doesn't matter if we do it again!)


The other thing that they are now worried about is the fertilizer causing an algal bloom; I don’t know what problems that would cause but it is apparently of concern.
It would basically choke marine life. But here's cheers to the navy...and the overwhelming concern we humans feel about the safety of the commercial fishing fleet. Never mind the damn fish, eh. Hey...whatever works...if the dollar religion and the environmental religion share beliefs for once, then, yay!

And I also hope that they tighten up on shipping rules regarding the way containers are loaded, the types of transport ships permitted in our waters (someone told me it was a single hull vessel making it a higher risk for an oil spill), and the overall condition of ships carrying such hazardous material. We can't afford for this to be a recurring event and we should look after the place, even if only so future generations can experience the same beauty we get to live amongst, rather than end up living in some cesspit we left them. (future pelicans too )

Edit: Sorry was so excited by the news I forgot to add....
If one thing comes out of this disaster,i hope the govenment and EPA put protocols in place to deal with situations like this and have faster reponse times than the time it took to respond to this.If they already have,they need to rethink them cos it wasn't good enough.

Great post Bucky! Let's hope so!!
 Hawaiianluau

Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 36
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/18/2009 3:32:11 PM

The other thing that they are now worried about is the fertilizer causing an algal bloom;

That's exactly what is killing our reefs.
The runoff of chemicals or even organic materials from poor land management.
 PeachSipper

Joined: 3/21/2006
Msg: 37
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/18/2009 6:40:24 PM
fortunately it's not a lake out there... it'a a moving system....
and the predominant currents just out from those bay islands is headed south.. fast

even though the thought would be that it will keep washing shoreward... not so..

the southerly set out there is a freight train some days... where you can be sailing backwards over the ground at 5 knots under full sail seemingly heading north,
a blessing going south.. log says 3 knots gps says 8 knots... it's hard to believe the gps at times...
inshore, right on the breakers, the currents eddys north and swirls outward at regular intervals... sand moves north.. most other floaty stuff eventually swirls out into the southerly set...
ask anyone who has sailed up the east coast ...

so the trail of toxins could well be heading south, offshore and deep....away fom Qld,, as the coast goes away to the sou'west after Pt Danger.. and the current keeps heading south and out to sea..

we were lucky in this regard.. saved by the sea itself?..
 Naamah

Joined: 11/1/2008
Msg: 38
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/19/2009 12:20:06 AM
That's exactly what is killing our reefs.

Absolutely. Another example of money being put ahead of the environment. And certainly no need to add an additional 31 shipping containers of the stuff to the equation in one fell swoop.


so the trail of toxins could well be heading south, offshore and deep....away fom Qld,, as the coast goes away to the sou'west after Pt Danger.. and the current keeps heading south and out to sea..we were lucky in this regard.. saved by the sea itself?..

I understand your sentiment there, but to me the notion of sending the toxins to another part of the coastline, another part of the ocean, another part of the same planet we all live on... isn't really something to celebrate when it all boils down.
 Hawaiianluau

Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 39
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/19/2009 1:50:24 AM

Apparently the reason that our television screens are not full of dead oil covered birds is that the oil is not toxic enough to kill them.

Additional danger comes from them dying after eating oil infested sealife.
 PeachSipper

Joined: 3/21/2006
Msg: 40
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/19/2009 7:16:29 PM
from the sunshine coast daily...just now,,


""The navy says it may have found 23 of the 31 ammonium nitrate containers that were lost from a cargo ship off southeast Queensland and is deploying a second ship to help with the search.
Navy mine hunter HMAS Yarra has found 23 solid objects believed to be containers lost by the cargo ship Pacific Adventurer when it was off the southeast Queensland coast in cyclonic conditions last week.
The containers were swept from the ship in heavy weather, ripping the side of the cargo vessel and causing a disastrous spill of fuel oil that affected Moreton and Bribie islands, as well as Sunshine Coast beaches.
A defence force spokesman said the objects were located at a depth of 120 metres, east of Cape Moreton.

The spokesman said a second mine hunter from Sydney, HMAS Norman, would join the search on Friday afternoon.
"The second mine hunter will be deploying a mine disposal vehicle with a video camera to have a closer inspection of the objects," he said.

"If we positively identify them, we'll be passing it on to Emergency Management Australia and then it's up to Maritime Safety Queensland on whether they will recover them."
© AAP ""

good going lads...
 Hawaiianluau

Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 41
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/20/2009 4:41:18 PM
I just had c0cktails with my ex from Coogee (visiting me here on Maui) and we're gonna have some more later still.
She hadn't heard of the disaster and informed me of the famous Moreton Bay bugs.
Hopefully the currents will disperse the imposing matter expediciously.
I'm confident that they will.
Then there'e the possible tsunami from he recent 7.9 earthquake in Tonga that could have the potential of making this seem like a mole hill on a mountain.
 ToldYouSo returns

Joined: 1/29/2009
Msg: 42
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/22/2009 2:38:18 PM
A few bitsies.

Container ship leakage was fuel oil not black crude. Sort of like comparing sewing machine oil with treacle. Do nothing and it will evaporate and be weather dispersed in S. Qld’s clime within 6 months, 12 to 18 amongst the rocks. Removing the top visible layer will speed that up. Marine biologists opinion. On ya Hawaiian. A sensible voice.

Three to four thousand shipping containers are lost overboard on the high seas every year. Lost a couple myself when I was in the business.

Ever tried turning 50,000 tonnes in a cyclone. Your maximum speed 18 knots which you can‘t use without ploughing it under. The wind gusting to 200 kph, the swell running at 40. ‘No rudder response Sir’ Ever heard the term ‘running before the wind’ or ‘eye of the storm’. That, or a port, is the only place for sensible mariners to be during cyclones. How to get there has always been the problem.

Sure as hell hope none of these containers burst open when and if they are retrieved. Perhaps slow leakage, slow dilution, slow dispersal is a better way to go than take that risk.

Most forms of observable life will be inconvenienced rather that eliminated from the foreshore. Confirmation from Scholar’s mate?

Seems to me like an act of God. Cyclones tend to be that. Imagine the poor bugger in it. Trying to save his ship, his crew and himself. Trust me he wasn’t thinking anything about the folding (money) involved. Seems a few of you Kangaroo Courters ’pass me the rope types’ would have been delighted if the ship had actually foundered. Be grateful it was a minor mishap and trivial slick. More than that be ’perhaps’ grateful that the captain had enough skill to save his ship, crew and our beloved coast from the possibility of a real ecological disaster.

^^^^ Monkey thread! What monkey thread? Stop monkeying around will ya. No one. I repeat, no one. Criticises my teddy bear.

P.S. ‘Trivial’ was the description offered to me from a mate who lives at Coolum Beach.
 lyingcheat

Joined: 10/1/2008
Msg: 43
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/22/2009 4:05:36 PM

Some trivia for those that followed the 'monkey' thread: Alfalfa seeds have a density of 0.77 grams per centimeter cubed - i.e. they are nearly as dense as the stuffing of a teddy bear, and very much like the stuffing of a teddy bear they have no significant impact on their environment.
I couldn't have said it Beta myself ^^^
Alphalfa is rather a neat combination of Lightweight and Dense, which, as you say, has almost no impact on the environment.
It's just unfortunate that it has such a low calorific value, so as a fuel, it's a dud.
 ToldYouSo returns

Joined: 1/29/2009
Msg: 44
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History
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/22/2009 4:57:20 PM
^^^^


it's a dud


At last we agree on something.
 lyingcheat

Joined: 10/1/2008
Msg: 45
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/22/2009 9:00:38 PM


At last we agree on something.

When you say "we", I hope you're not referring to you and I?
Because that just makes you look like any other sycophant with ambitions above his capabilities.
Best find someone elses bum to lick hey?

You probably had another person in mind? Though really, I doubt there's room for anyone else.
 ~luvUlongtime~

Joined: 5/9/2008
Msg: 46
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Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/22/2009 11:06:08 PM
^^^^ Ok, that's it boys!
Don't say you haven't been warned.
Somebody needs a darn good spanking...

LC... go to my room!
Immediately!
 CavesBeach

Joined: 11/28/2008
Msg: 47
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Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/22/2009 11:22:29 PM
environmentalists make great ancestors

I am honestly unsure to which is most harmful oil or nitrate.

THIS WAS ACCIDENT AVOIDABLE
A ship trying to make a run for a safe port in heavy sea's rather then getting out to the deep and far away. he swapped "time" for "our coastline" in a gamble which he(WE) lost.

Newcastle, last year the main beach was closed due to a rather big cheeky ocean tanker being parked 5ft off the beach there !! (pasha bulka) the beach fish n chip shop was open til late



I have video of a man doing a protest gig out the front of the EXXON building in New York.
I mega music protest about the Exxon Valdez,...the front man of the band spoke of "double hulled ships" and the planet. Unfortunately he is too busy as the Minister for the Environment in a far away place called Australia to help.

give me spots on my apples and leave me the birds n the bee's. . when our oceans are raped of fish and the only mammal remains are bondi cigars, what then.?
money taste like sh!t compared to fish. it might cost one to help the other but with out balance you loose both.

Government agency's often dont jump in right away, because the first person" in" is responsible for the clean up.. I just get that sense here..we have departments for that, fire'ies are trained for haz chems, the army have the man power.

we have resources but maybe its just best we pretend it didn't happen


or tell your grand children
" when I was a kid, I had to put the oil on my skin before we went into the surf and we were once afraid of these things called Sharks "
 landroverlad

Joined: 1/21/2009
Msg: 48
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 4/18/2009 3:55:49 PM
oil on the sand sadly if the ocean was not as choppie from the high winds of the cyclone a skimmer could of been used but booms could of been used but you dont have to many ocean going tugs round brisbane to do that type of work, secondly tie up a couple of tugs which can help a ship in distress and get it to safety, where is labour is avalaible from several govt bodys roadtek being one we still have kit over there and will have till the job is done, this has left crews on the roads short but we are still doing are jobs, my driver goes over monday for seven days,
 landroverlad

Joined: 1/21/2009
Msg: 49
Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 4/18/2009 4:10:10 PM
but getting the containers maybe to deep to get with out specail kit, and ocean going tugs which the Dutch have and there is no way there are going to sail them to australia because under maritine law if a ship takes his tow line the ship is his, so would you sail your tug 20 days to get 31 containers and 20 days back, or sit off the british canal the worlds most busy shipping canal where you could tow a ship worth say 20 milloin and a load worth say 20 million and ask for 10% to 50% of its value or the ship and its cargo
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