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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 1:28:53 AM |
Most women these days want a man who she can mold to her own whims. Any man who is independent, sticks to his opinion(s), or outspoken about an issue is "flamed"as a jerk, insensitive, uncaring,****, alpha-male, etc etc.
Nope! this Arabianangel wants a man that is stong, independent and has his own opinions...I don't want a wuss! I want a real man. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 2:55:26 AM |
If you really do read the forums, why aren't you aware of the independent, outspoken men who are respected by lots of the other posters here?
OP -- Sounding a little like tootin' my own horn here...but of all the messages I've received in my time on POF...I'd estimate that 95% of them came from people who respected the fact that I'm still a man and act like one. That was pretty much the gist of 95% of my communications:
"I can respect a man who tells it like it is without hesitation and without reservation"
So I agree with the poster above...some of the outspoken ones get acknowledged and recognized often. It's just not played out here in the forums.
But I do hear where you're coming from. | |
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Posted: 3/22/2009 3:05:43 AM | | hello how are you i want to know you | |
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Posted: 3/22/2009 3:08:12 AM | | hello how are you i want to chat with you | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 4:10:23 AM | Considering your age and academic credentials, I can't help but think that you're reacting against the metrosexual male phenomenon that was exalted earlier this decade. I find this most refreshing in the sense that SOME women never understood that metrosexuality was more an insult than a compliment to them. My last gf was the type of woman who tried mold me and have me conform to her ideal, advised me that I need to soften up, and she deemed herself a strong independent woman. With reference to the kitchen, the supreme paradox about her was that while she had experience in corporate boardrooms, she seriously couldn't cook for herself; and as paradoxes reveal irony, it strikes me as odd that in liberating themselves from the hot stove, SOME women have sacrificed independence in the process. I appreciate that my mother taught me how to cook, since I deem this a halmark of independence.
In my estimation, it isn't feminism that has spawned this, as much as a general trend since the mid 70s where everyone---men included---have been taught that they can have it all. Traditional notions of parenthood are postponed until the mid to late 30's, and sometimes even into the early 40s. My last gf, who is a year my elder, dropped the b-bomb on me a couple years ago, and I couldn't help but shake my head in disbelief that she was posing such an unrealistic inquiry at our age. Truth is, we can't have our cake and eat it too---reality doesn't work that way. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 5:09:12 AM | Op, are you sh*tting me?!! Send a strong, independant outspoken man to me and I would jump right back into the dating pool again, complete with apron and a pearl necklace.
I consider myself a "modern woman" (  I think of tampons and Fresca when I see that phrase). I would love to find a man who can be the man. Make the decisions, wear the creased slacks in the relationship, protect me and provide for me. I'm not talking monetary goods-how about a good old fashioned broad shoulder to cry on?
I think the media has beaten most men into submission. I go out and even in this hick town it's filled with emo rednecks. EMO REDNECKS!!! No, I don't want to discuss your feelings and how your daddy didn't love you. Grab me and dance with me. Stop yapping and make out with me.
Edited to add:
P.S. There are men on the forums who are able to pull off the sensitive side and still be manly. I don't know where you're reading. Poetry corner maybe? | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 5:11:03 AM | Just because women don't always agree with that outspoken males say or in this case type does not mean they are being flamed or de-maned.
<div class="quote"> Why cant we let men be men and we concentrate of us being women (not referring to "being in the kitchen etc etc
I for one want a man's man that does know how to step into a kitchen and knows how to use a washer. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 5:38:43 AM | OP.....
Dont know what gave you that idea...mold her to her whims...sheesh.
Nothing wrong with a guy saying how it is.I would rather a guy be upfront and honest than have a mouse ..well i would date a mouse to start with.
Play out the role as a softie...lol I cant see a mans man be anything else but himself.
Should this type person actually be real. Sounds like a player as he tells the woman what she wants to hear ,gets what he wants the goes back to his true self.
Well thats not the same for all men.some are honest its the woman thats the problem.
I prefer a man to be a man upfront on what thinks and feels.If he is an arrogant know it all and disrespectful to a woman that is different.
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 6:11:01 AM | Count me in as a lover of the strong, independent and outspoken male. Give me someone who will challenge my ideas or question my perceptions or give me a reality check. However, if he tosses out a half baked idea, then he is going to have to back it up with some pretty substantial background information to get me to swallow it.
I am also going to say that a man that has to stand on the highest hill and beat his chest and tell me how alpha he is, is nothing more then a joker who made it to center stage at Yuk Yuk's where every one stops and listens and then laughs at your skewed perception of life. The best jokes are the ones steeped with just enough truth to make you go hmmm.
jmho
Arp | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 6:16:35 AM | | It's because modern day women have to rebel against male dominance. Male dominance is the evil behind bad dates, bad relationships and bad marriages. It is also to blame for lousy jobs, unfair laws and cold specula. And what's more, as if all that wasn't reason enough, there is sex. Unless a woman rebels against men she must suffer the indignity of having sex the way a man wants. Rebelling against male dominance is a job that won't be finished until women rule the world, which it's about time. While no woman can individually bring about the ultimate goal of female dominance, she can do her part in little ways as opportunities present themselves. The war is won a battle at a time. Each point of disagreement is her chance to strike a blow against male domination on behalf of women everywhere. It will take generations for women to raise boys into men worthy of tolerance. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 6:24:00 AM | OP, nothing could be further from the truth for me.
Two of my favorite men on this site are BDJ and Jim978, both strong, intelligent and very candid in their opinions.
They don't sugarcoat and they say it like it is and I wish there were more men like that here on the pond. I mean I am sure that it is no surprise to anyone on this pond that both of these fine men are taken. Maybe this is why, because the act like men. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 6:25:36 AM | What I've noticed is that most men are more easy going than women. For example, I observe couples and unless the man has something he really wants to do, he generally relies on his wife/GF to find out what's going on for the weekend. Women generally seem to have more sh*t going on than men do. Women are usually the ones who make the family plans (dinners, birthday parties, visits etc).
Society then takes it upon themselves to say that the woman is the "boss" or a man is p*ssy whipped. I don't think this is true. I think most times, he is not as hard to get along with as a woman is. This does not however mean the man is not strong, independant and outspoken. I consider the men in my family very strong, and they have been accused of being p*ssy whipped.
There is a hell of a lot of difference between dominance and being a strong independant person.
Outspoken is fine for both sexes, it's when someone is outspoken beyond wanting to listen to the other person's "outspokenness" that there is a problem. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 6:37:10 AM | Most women these days want a man who she can mold to her own whims. Any man who is independent, sticks to his opinion(s), or outspoken about an issue is "flamed"as a jerk, insensitive, uncaring,****, alpha-male, etc etc.
Most women can't stand the fact I'm a republican much less independent and a loudmouth.
In short, any man who is bold enough to act as a man is considered somehow not a prime "dateble" material. In the forums here, even some men will go as far as "play"the role of a "softie" just to please some women posters. I have also seen this play out in real world!
Not me sister. But I'm an equal opportunity ***hole as well and I admit it. It doesn't matter if a man or woman says something that I don't agree with, I let them know. For instance one person on here said she wouldn't date a guy under six feet and I wrote WTF does she do, get a tape measure out? And she stands at 5'4" so I had to say something because that to me borders on the insane.
There another post on here about a women saying she wouldn't date a virgin because she's into lots of sex and wants man that is confident and knows what he is doing. I'm tempted to write I guess the one that got you pregnant at 20 didn't but I'm being nice and biting my tongue on it. But if I see her out here writing more stupid shit like that I might just say something. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 6:50:09 AM | OP, it appears that you have seen the reaction to many of my posts on various forums here.
You forgot to mention a couple other descriptive adverbs : judgmental, opinionated,confrontational and ,argumentative. You are also correct in your observation of some of the "men" here as growing a wet noodle for a spine in order to become more palatable for the women. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 6:51:17 AM | That's a laugh. Sorry, but disagree that most women want that. I, for one, do not. I cannot stand it when a man tiptoes around me and tries to act like he's such a gentleman just for my benefit. He agrees with everything I say, tries not to curse, ect. Oh, please! How boring. I have tolerated it for a short time, but I never encouraged anything more between us. He can think that he has me fooled all he wants to but I'm pretty good at reading people. I can see through the act with exray vision. When he's smilling all the time and pretending that everything I say is great, I know he's a phony and is thinking something entirely different. When the real person comes out he says something that was in his black heart all the while. This woman is not interested in anyone I can mold. At this stage of the game, the molding should be all taken care of. Sometimes it's an act to stick around long enough for the pay off.
I don't care what a man has or what he does. If he's a the henpecked type it usually comes out eventually. And when it does he will not see me around. I welcome the outspoken man who says exactly what he feels. Then, the choice is mine. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 6:56:21 AM |
As a young man who grew up in this generation where women seek equality AND BEYOND. It is very hard for us men to shine as MEN.
Taipei, I can only hope that your post was tongue and cheek and you don't require a vapid woman who will be a doormat and hide her light and intelligence under it to feel good about yourself.
I think most people know the difference between an independent outspoken strong man who does not need to put others down and be intentionally hurtful and someone who is an azzhole and tries to hide behind those "qualities" in order to continue spewing his crap. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 7:11:56 AM | Fabulous observation starfun.
You can tell you've struck a nerve by how much you get flamed
Most women these days want a man who she can mold to her own whims. Any man who is independent, sticks to his opinion(s), or outspoken about an issue is "flamed"as a jerk, insensitive, uncaring,****, alpha-male, etc etc.
I cringe in horror at some of the men who've been 'happily' married for decades. You can see them early every weekend morning at your local supermarket silently pushing a buggy around for their wife and being told what they want for dinner when they are asked.
Much like women in the same submissive position, they've forgotten what their wants and desires are. These people arem't equals with their partners. Instead they lost the 'battle of the sexes' years ago and have accepted a subservient role in the relationship content to walk on eggshells around their mate. In short, they are dead inside.
As for why so many women can't seem to handle an independent, strong-willed male?
My theory is that since women are born physically weaker than men they have to believe they are the mental superiors to feel comfortable. I've known many men who've learned to make a relationship work by smiling and nodding in agreement with their lady even when they know her to be wrong simply because their egos can handle it and it's much easier to let her think she's right. Insisting that you are right with a woman often means long dry spells when Mr Sexman never pays a visit.
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 7:28:23 AM |
I cringe in horror at some of the men who've been 'happily' married for decades. You can see them early every weekend morning at your local supermarket silently pushing a buggy around for their wife and being told what they want for dinner when they are asked.
Now, this cracks me up because you don't know shit about the people pushing the carts at the grocery store. I have a friend who has been married for around 25 years and you are likely to see him pushing the cart but probably not the reason you think. I suspect he is less likely to throw crap in the cart that is not on the list. Rather than having incessant fights about the grocery shopping, he CHOOSES to do it himself.
He is also often seen doing something around the house because he doesn't think it is his wife's job to clean things while he sits on his ass because he has a job. She has a job too, she is an RN and probably earns as much or close to what he does but if there is someone in that family that "wears the pants," it is her husband. After all these years, if she wants a piece of furniture or new carpeting, he "makes" her put away the money and usually tells her to get it when she is pretty close and only a small amount will be put on credit.
In many ways I suspect that people on this thread would describe him as puzzy whipped but I can assure you that my friend appreciates the MAN that she has and the way he has been a steward of their finances, has raised their sons to be good men, and truly still after 25 years is a partner and not only loves but enjoys spending time with her and their friends.
My friend took a chance because she met him when she was 17 and although they did not marry until she was around 21, she probably really didn't know that he was going to fill in those man shoes. Then again, he illustrated a great deal of character in how he married her. He borrowed the money for her last year of college from his father, he didn't think it was appropriate for her parents to pay it. A year before the wedding they opened a joint account and purchased all of their furniture, stored it until about a month before the wedding when he set up the apartment they shared. Real men, even those that are strong, independent and outspoken are comfortable in their skin and do not feel it necessary to announce to everyone that they are strong, independent and outspoken men. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independent, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 8:18:36 AM | I'd say about 80% of women want a strong independent male... The problem is that most women can't find them among the wusses. We *want* a man with balls. We do...but SO many men now adays see strong independent women and think "Oh good, a mommy, now I don't have to be strong anymore".
Seriously, I'm not kidding. I really believe it's the men who take advantage of women's strength, not that women are choosing them.
Now, I will say this...women aren't looking for as*holes. We aren't looking for men who are so stubborn and outspoken that they can't admit fault an dcan't admit that another point of view has merit. There is a difference there that not all men understnad. and the same goes for women - not all women are able to admit fault or be open to new ideas. It really goes both ways.
Some women do want to be the leader and have a submissive partner. Luckily there ar,e men who seek the same thing.
And some women want to be submissive and seek a very strong controlling partner so the women don't have to think about anything and there are men for that.
The rest of us, well, I think we want equals. We women want to be strong, outspoken, and opinionated, with our partner who is on our TEAM...we don't want a follower or a wuss for a partner, we want an equally strong outspoken opinionated man on our side.
The ideal, in MY strong opinion, is a man that I can lean on for emotional and intellectual support. A man who is strong enough to lead in totality on my rough days. A man who can think for himself and make good decisions without asking me what to do. BUT...he is also a man who leans on ME for emotional and intellectual support. Who is able to let me lead on his rough days. A man who respects that I think fo rmyself as well and who doesn't second guess my decisions.
We are a team and we work together. I defer to him in his areas of strength and he defers to me in mine. And in the areas we are jointly strong (or weak) we work together to find answers. We compromise equally.
I have seen couples who have achieved this. Who laugh when asked who wears the pants in the family because neither of them do -or both of them do.
now **I** am a very strong female. Thsi means if I seek the above, then by necessity I need a very strong male. But he also needs to be human enough to realize he has weaknesses at times and to be able to lean on me when the sheet hits. Not easy to find, that's forsure.
K | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/22/2009 8:25:40 AM |
I don't see smart, realistic, honest, responsible, clued in guys being shot down. A big hurray to them.
I see guys that are condescending, bitter, jaded, ignorant, bigoted and contemptuous getting their asses kicked by people intelligent enough to put them straight ....and so they should.
Well, that just about covers what I was going to say. | |
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