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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/26/2009 10:17:39 PM | It's like anything. Any trait dealt without respect or compassion for the other person can be a negative.
You can have a sensitive person who is absolutely walled off from interaction; very into their own situations and they can do tremendous amounts of damage to others from their actions; if their life is only about their own pain and their own fear, and hiding themselves and constantly shutting others out.
And you can have a sensitive person who is amazingly compassionate, huge hearted and giving, who is constantly reaching out to others. Same personality type, different personality.
Same with strong and opinionated. knowing your own mind and being able to express it is good, if it is done with respect, and done with a genuine interest in other people being allowed their own strength and voice as well. Others use it as an excuse to batter, belittle and control. Same "label" different personality.
Any trait can be positive or slightly less so depending on the level of selflessness and respect accorded by the person holding that trait. If they are used as an excuse to control, wall out, or manipulate; they can be slightly more negative. but tempered with respect, genuine interest in others and a value of give and take, they can all be amazingly good as well. Whether sensitive and artistic, or confident and take charge, or any other variation, regardless of gender.
imvho | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/27/2009 5:05:58 PM |
Now, this cracks me up because you don't know shit about the people pushing the carts at the grocery store. I have a friend who has been married for around 25 years and you are likely to see him pushing the cart but probably not the reason you think. I suspect he is less likely to throw crap in the cart that is not on the list. Rather than having incessant fights about the grocery shopping, he CHOOSES to do it himself.
Her: Go get the groceries you little puss! I'll keep your balls in this jar until you get back!
There shouldn't even be any arguing over this.
He is also often seen doing something around the house because he doesn't think it is his wife's job to clean things while he sits on his ass because he has a job.
Him: Yes, dear! I'll get right on it, dear! All you have to do is sit around on your arse and not lift a finger around the house. I'll do it all, your highness!
In many ways I suspect that people on this thread would describe him as puzzy whipped ...
You got that right! More aptly, henpecked.
I can assure you that my friend appreciates the MAN that she has...
Who doesn't appreciate a good manservant??
...still after 25 years is a partner and not only loves but enjoys spending time with her and their friends.
read: the likeminded female friends that she has selected who also have "men" from the Noodleback tribe.
...she probably really didn't know that he was going to fill in those man shoes.
read: she wasn't old enough to have the confidence that she could beat him into submission.
Then again, he illustrated a great deal of character in how he married her. He borrowed the money for her last year of college from his father, he didn't think it was appropriate for her parents to pay it.
read: he quickly demonstrated how stupid and p-whipped he actually was.
Confidence gained and solidified for at least the next 25 years.
He borrowed the money for her last year of college from his father, he didn't think it was appropriate for her parents to pay it.
Huh?? Mindboggling. Why shouldn't her parents have paid for it?? They weren't married.
Her in note to friends: Girls, you wouldn't BELIEVE the yellow-bellied sapsucker I caught in my net!!
Real men, even those that are strong, independent and outspoken are comfortable in their skin and do not feel it necessary to announce to everyone that they are strong, independent and outspoken men.
read: I believe men are inferior, stupid, and trodden beneath women's feet. They should be seen and not heard. And the less they're seen, the better. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/27/2009 5:20:48 PM |
Same with strong and opinionated. knowing your own mind and being able to express it is good, if it is done with respect, and done with a genuine interest in other people being allowed their own strength and voice as well. Others use it as an excuse to batter, belittle and control. Same "label" different personality.
Agreed. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/27/2009 5:45:04 PM | All these alleged smart, strong, independent, successful, yada, yada, yada women just aren't approaching and pursuing men. Why? Because they're chicken.
Hilarious!!
MikeM1968: I don't always associate strong and independent with ---> outspoken.
Nor do I. I typically associate it with obnoxious; which more often than not is the case. When did "outspoken" become such a badge of honor? Why can't they just be "spoken?" Being "outspoken" is to be out in the forefront of a conversation. Why must they talk over/talk at the persons they're speaking with? Just state you mind and move on. You don't have to dominate the conversation. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/27/2009 6:12:23 PM |
The problem is that so many men AND women try to excuse being an actual jerk with "I'm outspoken", "I'm opinionated", "I speak my mind", or "I'm blunt". There's nothing wrong with those things, but they and being a decent and sensitive human being are not mutually exclusive.
When a woman does this she's labled a bi*ch. So be it, I guess I am one then. You're right there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with those things. Why can't everyone just say what they mean and mean what they say! | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/28/2009 1:30:11 PM | I absolutely LOVE, STRONG, INDEPENDENT,OUTSPOKEN MEN !!!!!!
I was married to one for over twenty years....he was awesome.
However, outspoken does not mean that he wasn't also soft-spoken. Strong didn't mean he wasn't flexible, and independent didn't mean he didn't need me to love him.
He was a 12 year AIR FORCE Veteran,Firestone Union President, AAA Ballplayer, AFLCIO v-president, On the board of ARC,United Way, Preached both locally and away.etc.........
He stuck to what he believed in reguardless. He was not a follower, but a leader.
He was strong not only in morals and convictions, but he would stand for what he believed in even if everyone gave up or cowered down.
I have said this several times in my posts, and I mean it even more today........EVEN if he had not been my husband, I would still have thought he was the finest man I ever knew!!!!!!
The few men I have met since my husband died that have referred to themselves in this way..............often using John Wayne, Chuck Norris, etc as an example...........I have found to be less than honest.
John Wayne and Chuck Norris would have cause to bring suit against them for defamation of character!!
Strong , Independent, and Outspoken,.............does not men Loud, Caveman strong, beligerent, and cruel to those around you that you perecieve as weak because they are caring individuals.
Enough of the " Me Tarzan, You Jane".........so go back an see how Tarzan really did treat her and take a lesson from that!!
It is extremely hard to even be around some men that consider themselves this way.
Most men that REALLY are Strong, Independent ,and Outspoken don't have to toot a horn.
There will be sooooooooooo many of us women making sure to compliment that man on their observation of him...and the AWE!!
and 204# I agree!! | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 3/30/2009 8:33:35 AM | | Personally, I love strong, independent, bold men........just so long as they listen, undertsand, and compromisable. I do not want one that changes for me, but in essence allows my mind to work, also. Strength is not control, independence should be allowed to both parties, and respect remains necessary for both, as well. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 4/4/2009 2:19:12 PM | hi starfun. nice to find out that there are women who think equality should be a two-way street.the rants from many of the women on this post reminds of what carla told to sam once on cheers. " i know what women say when we get all dressed up and go on phil donahue, but here's what we really think...".i've watch a lot of "oprah tv" over the years and here's the common theme, women are better than men, women are smarter than men, women always deserve preferentialn treatment, its always the mans fault,its funny when we commit domestic violence, in fact its only domestic violence if he hits us back, etc.
i've noticed over the years the intolerance of the feminist movement. you have the right to choose only if you choose what we want to choose. how dare you say that, wheres your loyalty to the sisterhood? and so on.even some of the women who have shown the ability to really think have shown their dark side. the qualifier of he must be willing to compromise is written as a one way street. i heard two women talking(loudly in the next booth) about whether she should meet a guy she was emailing online. when told he was almost 50 and never married, the other woman said" don't do it. a man that's never been married hasn't been broken. they just won't do what they're told". | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 4/4/2009 3:42:09 PM | Responding to your heading OP...."Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?".......I can't speak for other women, but I'm not! I think anyone who shows strength of character, conviction, isn't afraid to say what they REALLY mean, is someone I admire. That being said, if he comes across as a know it all, simply LOVES the sound of his own voice, and pontificates about things he obviously knows nothing about, then he is a turn off to me. If he constantly agrees and wouldn't say 'chit' if he had a mouth full, that to me is patronizing and something else I'd find annoying and a turn off.
I'm not interested in moulding or rearranging anyone. It's like getting a cat and treating it like a dog. Just get a dog to begin with if that's what you want. If I'm attracted to someone, it's because they already ARE the person I seek. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I don't think ANY two people will always agree or see things the same way. We all have our own likes, dislikes, etc. What so many fail to do, is respect the differences in each other and try to sway the other to see things their way. You see that so many times in these forums. Someone asks a question or makes a comment and all too often some wanna be analyst critiques the heck out of it. That only tells me they are no different in person.
I agree when you say..........."Why cant we let men be men and we concentrate of us being women (not referring to "being in the kitchen etc etc "! ) ". There's a saying.........don't try and change him, exchange him! I think that applies to both sexes. If it doesn't feel right, move on and spare that person's dignity for someone else who'll love them just the way they are. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 10/18/2009 11:45:05 PM | In the forums here, even some men will go as far as "play"the role of a "softie" just to please some women posters.
^^^LOL I for one would never play the role of a softie just to please some women posters. Besides its not like your gonna get a cybersex session with them or something. I prefer being myself. I mean why be something else just to please others? That's just plain stupid, seriously. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 10/18/2009 11:50:38 PM | | I personally don't like men who threaten my existence with their overbearing alpha-male narcissistic selves. I mean I get along great with these kind of guys when I need to get along with them but I don't want to bring them home with me. When I am home I want to be around somebody I can talk to and feel safe with. Someone who we communicate and laugh with and are "partners"/friends. I have a very hard time feeling relaxed around the supermacho types it literally gives me a headache just managing that type of personality. | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 10/19/2009 5:18:42 AM | LOL! WOW!!!! I was bored this morning, so I looked under the "Relationships" topics just to see this topic revived! LOL! I can't believe I missed it the first go-around!
I'm a pretty modern-day woman...albeit an old one; but I LOVE chauvinist piggies!
The question: why do strong, independent and outspoken MEN "scare the hell" out of modern day woman; hmmm, I'm dunno. What's to be "scared" of. They're a helluva lot better than these "roll overs"...or as I heard one guy on here call them (and I literally cracked up!!!) manginas!!!
Not to attempt to dissuade any other female from her preferences for a sensitive metro male type, but...definitely not for me.
When I am home I want to be around somebody I can talk to and feel safe with. Someone who we communicate and laugh with and are "partners"/friends. I have a very hard time feeling relaxed around the supermacho types it literally gives me a headache just managing that type of personality. While I believe that this is a very true statement (for this person) the exact opposite is the case for some OTHER women. (like me) LOL!
I could never "feel safe" or relaxed with some "sensitive" guy who liked watching chick flicks with me. But..that's ME.
Post # 4 stated:
Guess it depends on what you think is acting like a man. I have no problems with outspoken, strong and independent men when they actually know what they are talking about and can back up their bullshit but individuals that are condescending and employ flawed logic don't impress me whether male or female. and...she said a mouthful there! There ARE many male and female.....who THINK that they're "strong and independent" when really, all they are is whiny, demanding, aggressive, and totally full of BS.
Post #12 stated:
I love a man who is strong, independant and outspoken...................it would be just like dating myself in a way.................. and I think that she was saying this in a fairly serious way...with some humor; what so many other are saying...without realizing it.
The stronger and more independent a female is, the MORE her need will be for a MALE with those same qualities. The TRUTH, is NOT in what a person SAYS that they are, but in the kind of person they SEEK for a relationship. It's all very SUBJECTIVE.
I.E.; let's take "pain" as an example: do we know anyone who does NOT say....Ohhhh, I have a really high tolerance for pain! Well, see...that's BS. Everyone thinks their tolerance for pain is higher than everyone elses, but it means absolutely nothing, because there are no quantitative tests for measurement. Likewise, everyone likes to THINK that they are "strong and independent", and...they are....but only by their own personal measurement.
This means, that what one female sees as a strong, independent male....to ME...is a wimp. Likewise, men who view me as "manly", do so, simply because I'm stronger and more independent than they are. People have ONLY their own personalities to "gauge" by.
By analogy: let's take Type A and Type B personalities...way overdone, I know, but it's something that most of us can understand and relate to. Many years ago, someone actually proved by clinical testing which could quantitatively MEASURE brain activity; showed that under stress, the brain of a Type A personality was stimulated, and actually MORE efficient while under certain stressful stimuli...like, riding roller coasters. Type B personalities, under the same stress (stimuli) actually, slowed down, and became quite "inefficient".
Post #22:
Where did you read this OP??? I read these forums a great deal and can't remember seeing this so I guess I musta missed it. Or could it be, that I'm just not looking for it?? Only a guess, but I'm sure it must have come from the thread about " why Strong, Independent Women scare the hell out of Men". The answer to BOTH is......they DON'T. If they do, they only scare the "weaker, more dependent" ones.
I think that Post #49 sums it up very accurately:
I'd say about 80% of women want a strong independent male... The problem is that most women can't find them among the wusses. We *want* a man with balls. We do...but SO many men now adays see strong independent women and think "Oh good, a mommy, now I don't have to be strong anymore". Men who DO that however, are NOT "strong, independent males"....they were simply pretending to be. These are the same guys who "fake", or who actually adopt "feminine" characteristics in order to get laid by women who are looking for "more feminine" partners.
She also says:
Some women do want to be the leader and have a submissive partner. Luckily there ar,e men who seek the same thing.
And some women want to be submissive and seek a very strong controlling partner so the women don't have to think about anything and there are men for that.
The rest of us, well, I think we want equals. We women want to be strong, outspoken, and opinionated, with our partner who is on our TEAM...we don't want a follower or a wuss for a partner, we want an equally strong outspoken opinionated man on our side. AND THIS is where many people absolutely loose all understanding. So many, both male and female, have NO IDEA about the differences between "submission" and "subservience". A "weak" woman cannot BE "submissive". She can be "subservient"...or she can be "domineering" (NOT to be confused with "dominant"), but she lacks the self confidence required to be truly "submissive". Likewise, both male and female ERR in their opinions that "dominant" males are "controlling" or "abusive". This is a complete FALLACY. Controlling and abusive men only PRETEND to have strength and power, and they GENERALLY seek out "weak" women who will take on the "subservient" (NOT SUBMISSIVE) role out of FEAR.....NOT...."Respect".
You see, "submission" is an act of trust, and respect. "Subservience" is an act of fear.
She says it in a nutshell:
The ideal, in MY strong opinion, is a man that I can lean on for emotional and intellectual support. A man who is strong enough to lead in totality on my rough days. A man who can think for himself and make good decisions without asking me what to do. BUT...he is also a man who leans on ME for emotional and intellectual support. Who is able to let me lead on his rough days. A man who respects that I think fo rmyself as well and who doesn't second guess my decisions.
We are a team and we work together. I defer to him in his areas of strength and he defers to me in mine. And in the areas we are jointly strong (or weak) we work together to find answers. We compromise equally. This, in my opinion, defines a strong and healthy relationship between 2 "alpha" personalities. NEITHER of them is diminished by relinquishing "control" dependent on the other's "need". Strong men are NOT diminished by depending on their female counterpart...in fact, if he is a strong male....one of his TOP priorities would have been to select a similarly "strong female" who could stand in his stead when the need arises. A "weak" male chooses a weak female rather than a strong one, because he FEARS that if he had to depend on her to stand for him in a moment when he was busy, or ill....that he would NOT be capable of "dethroning" her from that dominant position.
2 strong and independent personalities teamed up, are secure in their positions, each recognizing that they serve each others needs through mutual trust and respect.
This type of "interdependent" relationship CANNOT exist when the 2 partners are disproportionately matched in terms of "masculine/feminine" characteristics.
If someone believes their partner (or perspective partner) to be...too much, or too little of either masculine or feminine characteristic, then there will always be that "power struggle". | |
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PiggyT
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Joined: 9/14/2009
Msg: 222 | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:17:32 AM |
I start my day with a renewed sense of hope!
OINK LOL!!!! Strut baby Strut!!! LOL! I mean it! A guy out there strutting and flexing and lifting those heavy bundles.....FOR ME (a woman)??? Dang!!! You just can't buy an aphrodisiac better than that!!! WOW! You mean....you (a man) are going to deal with the jerk who stepped on my foot.....JUST so that I can retain my feminine lady like composure, and not have to bust the guy in the nose? WOW! What did I do to deserve this total show of respect? :-) It's not that I "CAN'T" deal with those situations, I assure you that I CAN...and have....and certainly WOULD....but damn, it's so nice to have a "macho man" who unspokenly says, "no baby, you let ME handle this, and you just be that sweet, lovely lady that I love to hold and kiss on"!!!! OMG!!! Talk about foreplay!!! LOL!
LOL! You MCP's can strut for me anytime, I might even try to work up a good blush!!! LOL! | |
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| Why do Strong, Independant, and Outspoken MEN scare the hell out of the modern-day woman?
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:19:32 AM | Strong ==>>>> mental, emotional, spiritual and physical strength
Mental strength = intelligent - mentally agile - able to admit he doesn't know something and the resourcefulness to research it if he feels it is necessary.
Emotional strength = has dealt with his issues and has healed from his past hurts and relationships - kind - caring - compassionate - loving - knows that all the sex in the world will not replace true caring and affection - knows that asking for help is not a threat to his masculinity, in fact it enhances it.
Spiritual strength = has gone through enough in life to realize that there are times when you just need to surrender to a higher power, whatever he deems it to be - has grown enough within himself to know that leaning on that higher power does not make him weak, but rather, it is what makes him strong, and he embraces that.
Physical strength = knows that this is not "brute strength" but rather the strength to hold me when I need it, to lend a hand with whatever needs to be done at the moment, rather than sit on the couch and tell me how - the strength to let me cry on his shoulder, or playfully punch it when he makes a smart remark - the strength to laugh so hard you are crying and not complain about his stomach hurting from too much laughter.
Independent = being able to pay his own bills, not wanting to "move on in" in record time - not wanting a "replacement mom" or anything remotely like that - can cook for himself, clean his own house.... but yet, he also realizes that being independent also means there are times when he ask to ask for help... and the thought doesn't scare him.
Outspoken = being able to speak his mind AND HIS FEELINGS in an intelligent, articulate, courteous and polite manner - not speaking over me when I am trying to talk - allows me to take my turn in a conversation too - knows how to actually hold an intelligent conversation on whatever he knows about - but also knows enough to not speak out about things he knows nothing about..... this does not include being rude, stuffing one's feelings or being overbearing and controlling.
Does a strong, independent and outspoken man scare the hell outta me?....... not in your life! I would love to meet one of these - just one - but alas, I think they just might be all extinct! | |
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