| The publican's alternative budget is a huge joke
Posted: 4/21/2009 5:44:51 AM |
As your example shows, minimum wage costs jobs.
So let me see if I can interpret your statement, you believe that the minimum wage should be lowered? If so how low do you think it should be? | |
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| The publican's alternative budget is a huge joke
Posted: 4/21/2009 9:43:38 AM | ohhh lord I see we are back to the same old people unable to grasp reality and basic math.
Okay folks lets go over the problem with the idea of Globalization and why things are all so screwed up, and understand right now before we even begin this is a matter of extreme greed and corporatism which the founders of this country were aware of and argued about and ultimately tried to prevent and obviously failed because of the stupidity of the modern American.
Pretty much all the money is in the first world, most of the first world money is in the US, England, and Japan in fairly close to that order. Everyone got this so far? Now Americans by virtue of being Americans are a melting pot of every nation and culture and so we buy things from everywhere and everyone. Americans also believe if something is good more of it is better and so be buy a lot of it. Ergo we consume from all over the world, the rest of the world however doesn't for the most part give a rats behind about American culture, products, or can for the most part afford them or our services, most infact don't want our products competing with theirs even if they did overlap with their interests because generally ours are or rather when made here were better. Everyone got that part so far? Now it starts getting complicated. The Corporatist wanting more access to those foreign markets convinced the government to reduce tariffs on incoming goods to the states that protected us from gluts of overseas merchandise in the assumption and backroom dealing that forgien governments would do the same. They didn't. However the Corporitists noticed an interesting back door from that. They could use foreign labor to make products ship them to the US and not have to pay for it and so began a vicious cycle. It got worse and worse and people kept being stupid and not seeing the problems with this and the Corporatist convinced you all it had something to do with taxes.
Then the real problems started showing the cracks in the plan and this is what the Global Corporatist haven't figured out in their stupidity and arrogance. Remember where i said all the money is?? If an American doesn't have a job they don't have money so they can't buy things.. they cant buy things from foreign companies, and they can't buy things from american companies. Anyone remember the Disney Stores in the 90's they were EVERYWHERE almost as ubiquitous as Starbucks. Problem was they decided they could make more money by moving their factories that made the items to Singapore and still sell them at the same price. American's lost jobs from the factory closing, the places that supported the factory, the restaurants that fed the workers etc all the way down the line and American's couldn't afford to buy the Disney stuff.. did they lower the price? No, did the people not in America purchase the stuff? No they don't like Disney things outside of the US other then when they come here as tourists, Disney closed the factories and most stores went under.
Moral of the overly simplified story here? Stop listening to Free-marketeers and Corporatist they aren't interested in the truth they are still only looking at short term answers and goals which ultimately as we see going on kill us while they rake in the dough. Solutions. As I posted a long time ago. Reinstated import Tariffs charge appropriate tariffs and fees to those corporates claiming to be foreign Charge outsources the appropriate payroll taxes based on the labor costs here, shut the shelter loop holes and provide incentives only to american companies using American labor stateside. | |
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| The publican's alternative budget is a huge joke
Posted: 4/21/2009 9:58:16 AM |
Moral of the overly simplified story here? Stop listening to Free-marketeers and Corporatist they aren't interested in the truth they are still only looking at short term answers and goals which ultimately as we see going on kill us while they rake in the dough. Solutions. As I posted a long time ago. Reinstated import Tariffs charge appropriate tariffs and fees to those corporates claiming to be foreign Charge outsources the appropriate payroll taxes based on the labor costs here, shut the shelter loop holes and provide incentives only to american companies using American labor stateside.
Good that's two of us that agree on what the problem is and how to resolve it | |
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| The publican's alternative budget is a huge joke
Posted: 4/21/2009 11:36:44 AM | Why is it that the losing party always sits with hands folded and stubbornly refuses to go with the winner’s budget? Did you know all of Obama's advisers are worth over a million? That nearly all of them are self made? Obama's mamma had to go on the dole for a time and died because she could not afford better health care and he now is a millionaire if that is not proof the man knows how to make money work and justify his want of health care reform nothing will be. He also is a lawyer whose focus is on the Constitution. If that does not prove that he knows what he promised when he took the oath of office nothing will.
The GOP knew it had to come up with a plan. It said enough about the Dems. lacking one and saying no to their guys to keep their seats of power to know better. It did not remember that the plan had to be good and stand up to examination because their plans never had to be justified the eight years under Bush. | |
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| The publican's alternative budget is a huge joke
Posted: 4/21/2009 11:57:05 AM | Seren
I am not liking the bailouts at all. Bush screwed us over for eight years, now the obama wants to screw generations with trillions in debt passed down. Bush started this bailout crap and the obama seems to think it was a good idea. Throwing trillions that we just printed by the way, at this problem is nothing more than a band aid over a gushing wound. We should let the big companies go into bankruptcy and reorganize. In the long run it will be better for the economy. Look at Chrysler and Lee Iaccoca.
As for the mortgage companies giving out bad loans, you are correct. They should be help accountable. Remember that most mortgage companies sell their loans to big banks or other mortgage companies like Countrywide. Fanny and Freddie we deregulated in the 90's and pushed into giving bad loans by the Clinton admin who wanted everyone to own a home. I am by no means putting this on Clinton. I am putting this on all the Democrats and Republicans who have been in the house and senate and have allowed this to happen. Bush did nothing and he knew about it all, the obama is just making it worse.... | |
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| The publican's alternative budget is a huge joke
Posted: 4/21/2009 12:24:32 PM | So let me see if I can interpret your statement, you believe that the minimum wage should be lowered? If so how low do you think it should be?
I don't think there should be a minimum wage at all. Nobody in this country is going to work for 75 cents an hour, for example. In other words, the labor market itself will set the price. Part of the pains we're going through in this country are due to what I call "artificial inflators." We have a minimum wage far higher than wages in countries we "compete with" economically, and as a result we lose jobs...we have people with GED's making $40-$50k a year (plus outstanding benefits) working on assembly lines building cars (i.e. unskilled labor,) etc. We've become spoiled and used to an unsustainable standard of living.
The bottom HAD to fall out some time, and it's starting to now. Either we're going to compete globally (which means lowering the standards many of us have become accustomed to in order to more closely match/compete with other nations who don't have it as good as we HAD it) or we're going to have to become almost totally isolationist/protectionist. No in-between is sustainable forever, as we're now seeing.
Maybe my solution isn't the right one (maybe it is /shrug) but I definitely see what one of the problems is.
EDIT: Fireknight! LTNS =) I liked your post, though I'm still mostly a free-marketeer... but I'm rethinking my old position on tariffs these days. Frightening, I know :D | |
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| The publican's alternative budget is a huge joke
Posted: 4/21/2009 12:58:04 PM |
I don't think there should be a minimum wage at all. Nobody in this country is going to work for 75 cents an hour, for example. In other words, the labor market itself will set the price. Part of the pains we're going through in this country are due to what I call "artificial inflators." We have a minimum wage far higher than wages in countries we "compete with" economically, and as a result we lose jobs...we have people with GED's making $40-$50k a year (plus outstanding benefits) working on assembly lines building cars (i.e. unskilled labor,) etc. We've become spoiled and used to an unsustainable standard of living.
The bottom HAD to fall out some time, and it's starting to now.
EDIT: Fireknight! LTNS =) I liked your post, though I'm still mostly a free-marketeer... but I'm rethinking my old position on tariffs these days. Frightening, I know :D
So let me see if I can interpret your statement, you believe that the minimum wage should be lowered? If so how low do you think it should be?
If the labor market sets wages you will be out of work and the majority of the middle class will be working for $5.00 an hour or less, what we need to do is re-establish the unions that the Reagan administration started the decline of, the middle class worker needs the strength that organized labor could give it, we did not need globalization it was nothing but a license for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer. If corporations want to move overseas let them deal with import tariffs or sell their products and services in the country they are manufacturing in
Big business reinvestment is not the answer, why? Because they are not going to re-invest in America until our hourly wage is equal to or below the hourly wage they can realize in countries like China .48 cents an hour | |
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| The publican's alternative budget is a huge joke
Posted: 4/21/2009 1:09:14 PM | If the labor market sets wages you will be out of work and the majority of the middle class will be working for $5.00 an hour or less,
I'm a casualty of the mortgage business. 5 yrs as a broker and now I'm looking for work. I spend every other day at the local "Career Center" along with lots of other out of work folks. I can assure you that there are A LOT of people who would give anything to be able to work for $5.00/hr because it's better than the nothing that they (we, heh) have now...only the government says they're not allowed to walk up to an employer (who would gladly take the offer) and make that offer. It costs jobs, and as I said in my previous post, we've gotten used to having it good in a way that is unsustainable if we're going to remain in a global market. I myself, looking for a non-mortgage job am told every stinkin' day "you're overqualified for this position..we'd be afraid that you'd leave in short time to find a better paying job.." They don't understand that I'll take damn-near anything for damn-near any pay right now. This is how minimum wage is UNFAIR to American workers. I talk to people at the job center who have NO income, $200/month in foodstamps and that's IT. They'd kill to be able to offer themselves for $5.00/hr right now, but the government won't let them because of the minimum wage laws. So instead they HAVE nothing.
what we need to do is re-establish the unions...
..that bankrupted the auto industry. Again, we're spoiled. A guy with a GED works on an assembly line doing unskilled labor for $40k-50k a yr plus great benefits? It was inevitable that the bottom was going to fall out. We either need to lower our standards to match our international competitors or we need to become more protectionist/isolationist. The in-between is never sustainable forever.
Big business reinvestment is not the answer
I agree 100% | |
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| The publican's alternative budget is a huge joke
Posted: 4/21/2009 2:59:57 PM | Instead of knocking down our wage laws the world should have to pay their workers the same wage to sell products or provide services. If a factory is making shoes to sell in the USA they must pay the same amount as a factory here. Starting a bidding war for the cheapest labor is how the world got our jobs but if that is taken away they will come back. Fear can't make you into a sell out take a stand so the WTO will not be allowed to sell us down river. Business is doing the same thing it always has. They found out Blacks could work longer and had less sickness so they nearly killed all the Celts, after slavery was stopped they would replaced any striking white with a black after the labor party united black and white workers they replaced both with Asian. Labor is used like pair of shoes if they pinch get a new pair. It is only when labor reacts to being stepped on and decides to start seeing beyond color and sub groupings and working together pushes business and government to find balance with all people.
Starting in the 90's when we began to pull apart the rules and regulations the USA has been heading toward the same boom bust cycle we had before they were in place. Tax and spend is better than barrow and spend any day because we do not pay interest on taxes or have to give it all back. 10 from a pay check is 10 bucks ten bucks from China is a bill for 200 over our kids head and a piece of tape over our mouth on china's human policy. | |
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| The publican's alternative budget is a huge joke
Posted: 4/22/2009 6:48:52 PM | dmotz,
Something we can agree on, I'm not liking them either, not even a little bit!
Maybe there is no solution. I continue to have faith in Obama, it is my belief that if anyone can fix this, it's him but the jury is still out. Maybe I'm wrong (it wouldn't be the first time  ), maybe it's just not fixable or maybe he's just like all the rest.
We'll see I guess.
Anyway, I see this place becoming more toxic by the day so I'm outta here but did want to say goodbye to you. Tried to pm you but I don't have a pic up. We've had our battles but I suspect if we happened into one another other than here we'd end up friends who agreed to disagree about politics. One of my very best friends is as conservative as they come but we work it out. Here's hoping Obama turns out better than you expect, if not, you can say "I told you so" in 3+ years. Meanwhile, wish you and all other POFers the very best. Have fun!! .  | |
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| The publican's alternative budget is a huge joke
Posted: 4/22/2009 11:37:45 PM | Take care Seren..It has been a pleasure..be safe out there.
As for knowing in 3 years if the obama has been the right choice...I say we do not need 3 years to say"NO".
He is just another clog in the wheel controlled by the powers that be... | |
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