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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/5/2009 12:03:13 PM | | Everything I've ever read or heard about Jesus seems to indicate that according to our modern view of things , yeah , Jesus was a socialist. Given that there was no such word at the time and the definition of socialism doesn't entirely cover what Jesus was all about , it's kind of tough to tag him with the label. Then again , this was a guy who could supposedly walk on water , turn it into wine , heal the chronically ill , and all kinds of other neato stuff. I'm not sure it matters how we interpret him today from a political perspective ... if he was around , I expect he'd still be influencing the works. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/24/2009 8:50:32 PM | NerdStatus, thanks for your quotes. They're priceless. Are they real? And how much did they cost you?
It is funny, one day somebody will say "it's in the New Testament that you must pinch thy security guards' azz for the camera" and everyone will go, "gaaa???" whereas it's only that nobody read all the "predictions" or "prophecies" and came out with a straight mind capable of remembering anything or of doing fractions. It's potent stuff man, all that gibberish. You think I am joking? read it yourself, and with paying attention and trying to digest and internalize each word, sentence, message, meaning.
One word of advice: Pull out IMMEDIATELY when you hear the opening chords of "Purple Haze" and a pre-Columbian Aztec Mountain-god in the shape of a hundred-headed burning monkey appears to you and says, "My cousin was wasted during a bad cocaine deal in a field full of cars with bulletholes in their mirrors, and they left him lying in the driveway." | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/24/2009 8:55:37 PM | | Just in! Latest bible research has dug up some evidence that Jesus was not a person, but a god, and his impersonator was crucified in an effort by the authorities to smoke God out of the false certified general public accountants' den they called "Temple" and "Tax Haven" interchangeably, and to arrest him. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/24/2009 8:56:21 PM | Jesus is an anarchist libertarian 
http://www.anti-state.com/redford/redford4.html | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/24/2009 9:00:54 PM | Thanks, OddAndy. I was thinking about the same lines, and found it impossible to make a truly funny juxtaposition of movements and followers of movements in systems of political economy, politics, and philosophy-based societal utopias.
Well done, Andy!! | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/24/2009 11:20:07 PM | I don't know about that...
All I know is... a lot of today's followers of Jesus are not following his teachings.
Because Christianity has become THE establishment, they don't see that they have become the Pharisees during Jesus' day; an old religion, bloated by its own stagnant dogma, run by an oligarchy of old men hell bent on retaining their power over their followers using whatever means possible to achieve that end.
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 12:47:35 AM | | It's very true. Most of those who are supposedly practicing Christianity, and often especially the estalished church, seem to show little resemblance to his original teachings. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 9:15:47 AM | The term "socialist" has been so perverted lately as to be meaningless. It seems the Loonie Limbaugh Right has applied it to anyone to the left of Wayne LaPierre, and to political philosophies as diverse as Nazism, Fascism, or anything, right or left, that has a hint of Libertarianism or Authoritarianism- which is to say, it applies to anyone or anything that's disagreeable to the Loonie Limbaugh Right.
"Socialist" has replaced the old "Liberal" as well as the old "Moderate" or "Centrist."
If you disagree with Rush you're a Socialist, anyone who is not one of Limbaugh's mindless drones is a Socialist.
It should give us all a warm fuzzy glow to be called a Socialist; coming from Rush it's high praise, and puts us in such wonderful company- that is, the majority of the human race. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 9:50:35 AM |
Because Christianity has become THE establishment, they don't see that they have become the Pharisees during Jesus' day;
I absolutely agree. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 12:08:19 PM | I mean why pick on jesus save a Christianity symbolism issue.
Do you mean was he a nice guy, or an alleged nice bloke should this one of many prophets, of that time, hath existed. Yes is my answer. I am a little uncertain if these parables are true.
But I am a sucker for feeding of the 5000, who wouldn't.
As for the bible I pay 100% attention to the olde testament. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 1:06:21 PM | | All men of good will should be led by their intuition to be in agreement with what Christ taught regarding compassion and forgiveness. But alas, I weep for mankind; so few are in touch with their inner voice or believe at all that they might live beyond their earthly grave. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 3:06:23 PM | Your question: How do people jsutify the whole 'Christian right' Bible and a gun thing ,...." ?
When Peter cut off the guards ear he was told: "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword." This would seem to imply that Jesus was not an advocate of using arms. However, the verse that immediately follows might hint at one reaon why Jesus didn't need to rely on weapons of self defense: "Do you think that I cannot call upon my Father and he will not provide me at this moment with more than twelve legions of angels? " For us mere mortals, it's not so easy. But I think if one were to live by the teachings of Jesus (Christianity), as a forward thinking pacifist Jesus would want his followers to live in peace and help those less fortunate.
Bottom line, I don't know if using a gun can be justified if one were to live according to unadulterated Christianity. But then again, we are supposed to take care of our family, and I'm sure that also means that we are to defend them when necessary. (My head is starting to spin now.) Anything can be twisted to justify anyone's agenda. So many translations. So many interpretations.
Safest bet, treat everyone as you want to be treated, and don't judge others. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 4:15:47 PM | "Do you think that I cannot call upon my Father and he will not provide me at this moment with more than twelve legions of angels? "
Ice cream man, this still implies weaponry and its use to me. The angels all have their swords, don't they?
Also, there have been about 2 trillion examples of people who lived by the sword but did not die by the sword. (Give or take 1.9 trillion people.) Look at all the veterans from ALL wars who died of old age or had a heart attack in the arms of a 20-year-old.
"(My head is starting to spin now. ) "
That WILL happen more and more often if you want to make sense of the bible. Either testaments.
"Do you think that I cannot call upon my Father and he will not provide me at this moment with more than twelve legions of angels? "
Yes, I think he couldn't. Otherwise the crucifiction would have been stopped in time. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 5:52:23 PM | Hmmm. I have a bible. Nowhere in it can I find "The Book of Jesus".
If he had thought it would help us to write "The Truth and the Way" , I think he would have made it a mission to do so but he didn't. Unless I'm mistaken, in which case could someone please quote me the scripture where he gave dictation.
So debating what he thought and what his politics were when he never wrote anything down himself nor asked anyone to write anything (as far as I can tell) is kinda moot.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Jesus actually forbade his disciples to write anything down. That would explain why none of the books were even written within 70 years of his death. Go figure. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 7:43:50 PM | I think you have to look at those verses in context of the whole text.
The secound part of the text goes on to say:
32 “But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. 35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. 36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
The context is God's mercy.
Not your own 'love' for an enemy.
And no, Jesus was not a pacifist.
If there were a label for His time, He would be a 'revolutionary' and dissident.
My question is, how do people justify the whole "Christian right" "Bible and a gun" thing
Luke 22:36
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/26/2009 8:50:23 AM | "32 “But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back."
This argument is invalid.
Doing good and performing love and lending to those in need ought to be a credit to those who perform these. Including those sinners who also do these. The sinners' sin is for compeltely different actions, words, or thoughts from giving, loving, and lending. So the loving, etc. is a credit not only to "you" as you wish, but to the sinners as well. In fact, if sinners are judged to be sinners by their actions and words and thoughts, then they also have to be mitigated by their actions words and thoughts that are not sinful.
Geez. If only a logician would read the bible. Or would have read the bible when it was fresh out on the market. None of this christian crap effing nonsense would envelop our minds and make us stupid.
You know, it's not christ or christianity that I hate. What I hate is when someone tells me something illogical and insists that it's not illogical, whereas it's clearer than light that it is. THAT really irks me. It insults my intelligence.
An even bigger irritation is to hear that god is all-powerful and knows all and is high-iq, and then the same god mixes up the logic in his arguments, and makes logical mistakes that a ten-year-old could catch. In fact, I have talked to many (many, mark my word) people who were raised to be christian, and they told me of the severe treatment they received from their Sunday school teachers and from their parents when these people asked inconvenient questions at age 10 or 11.
As far as I am concerned, Jesus was a f-up in matters of logic, but he was an excellent orator, he was spirited, he had the knack to be convincing through being poetic and having an air of authority. He was charismatic, but not kind as many say now; he had the power and the force in his presence that often called people to reconsider their own worth, because of their own values. Jesus was a convincer, but not a thinker, and definitely not a logical thinker. And most certainly he was not all that kind. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/26/2009 10:04:33 AM | Forumologist, I was convinced by your argument fully.
But then again, you're preaching to the choir. ; )
Please PoF email me if I could use your argument, and if yes, whether you'd insist on giving you credit where possible. If this latter, then please also include your full name. I am not a boogie monster, but if you want credit, well, I have to name to whom I am giving it in my other publications.
Simpler would be if you gave me permission to use your idea without having to give credit. But that's like stealing an idea, and I'm not in a practice of that.
Of course I'd reciprocate with my full name, but most men have the criteria "no messages from men" in their incoming PoF mail, so I shan't even try. I don't have that criteria, to exclude men writing to me. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/28/2009 7:44:11 PM | Was Jesus a socialist?
Let me give you a a short story... a parable.
There was a grape grower in California who had acrs and acres of grapes ready to pick.
He went down to Los Angeles at 6 am and brought 500 men up to the hills to work all day for $10
At 11 am he saw the Sun was hot and the grapes were drying out so he went down to Los Angeles and brought up another 500 men to work all day for $10. They started right after lunch at 1300 hrs
At 1630 he saw a thunder storm approach so he thought he better get the grapes in fast so he went down to Los Angeles and brought up another 500 men to work all day for $10.
They started at 1800
It was dark at 1900 when all the men stopped.
Now what would a socialist have done?
500 men worked from 6am to 7pm ie 13 hours in the Sun for $10
500 men worked from 1 to 7pm ie 6 hours for $10
500 men worked from 6pm to 7 pm ie 1 hour for $10
I am not an expert in US working practices but I imagine all hell would break out if the first lot discovered the last lot were being paid more than 10 times the rate for an hours work than they were.
I imagine the farmers house would burn if the farmer was serious.
Yet the parable of the vineyard is effectively this.
Was Jesus a hard hearted capitalist exploiting the poor and vunerable who worked all day and were worn out by the work and heat too tired to put up a fight?
Clearly Jesus was off his rocker or someone else made up the story and added it in later.
So what other parts were added in later, by whom and why?
How can you believe any of it. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/28/2009 9:10:54 PM | jesus also said the poor you will have with you always
do remember at this time that if you fell behind in your debts the people you owed the debt to sold you into slavery so they could get their money back.
That roman tax collectors had sold entire cities to slaver to pay bills for their provinces | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/29/2009 3:56:45 AM | | Hmmm... I don't think that Jesus was the government type. I don't think that he promoted taxing the masses to create social welfare programs. I don't think that was his schtick at all. We should not confuse apples and oranges. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 5/2/2009 5:23:04 PM | | I think some are misunderstanding what Jesus meant by the rich man quote. I take it as Jesus saying the rich man may be putting to much into worldly goods instead of God so it might be hard for him to give up those and follow him. His heart is more concerned about things on earth instead of God. | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 5/2/2009 10:23:31 PM | | I'm not a Christian and Jesus is spirit but keeping withing the outlines of the original question,Socialist/liberal.To be unburdened by material aspects of life in no way means that one should not enjoy the fruits of material life to the fullest. We all have talents that when expressed create a world of wonder and all should be equal in chance to enjoy these wonders.I'm not talking wealth distribution but just that if you enjoy the finer things,go for it, nothing wrong with it.I myself like having the toys but if everything were to go up in smoke tomorrow,Oh well,I'll just rebuild again.The problem is the idea that people begin to identify themselves and others by these toys and completly forget who they and others are through there attachment .To unburden your self of attachment to the material frees yourself to see yourself and others as they truly are,spirit......One thing, it must have been pretty frustrating at times for Jesus. Imagine being a math teacher trying to teach something that was as easy as 2 +2=4 but every day his students come back thinking 2+2=22 | |
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 5/2/2009 11:21:35 PM | A szibinyanl Jank, I have heard many many arguments against the Bible and Christians, but rarely have I ever heard someone attack the teachings of Jesus. Even atheists who doubt He existed usually have no problem with His teachings, yet you call them illogical. Would you care to give us some examples of the poor logic of Jesus? With all due respect, I really do not believe that you can.
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| Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 5/3/2009 5:33:21 AM | I personally believe that Jesus existed, that there is some basis for the myth. I do not believe however that he was a, for lack of a better word, superhero. I don't believe that he performed any other miracle than sparking his contempories' imaginations and provide top rate (at the time) medical services.
He was a human being who the church decided to 'promote' to man-god some three hundred years after his death. It is sad really... but just look at the Early x-tian church... tell me you trust those guys to bring you accurate unbiased information.
I do believe in miracles but they take the form of chance, of coincidence, they work through the observable laws of physics not against them. I still believe in the message of Christ, love your enemies (if you seek peace). I don't need all of the fancy stuff that flies in the face of my reality.
I accept that I could be wrong... that perhaps my 'faith' is weak. But, frankly it's not going to make an ounce of difference in regard to my actions, wether he walked on water, resurected dozens or rose from the dead or not, I will continue to basically apply the message of unconditional love. It's a good one, and I believe that it can see us through many difficulties.
btw... I will also continue to apply Buddha's message of non-attachment.
and Muhammed's message of life is a constant struggle to do the right thing and... (you get the picture). | |
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