| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 4/8/2009 5:42:41 PM | The big pay sites all have the same big problem - It's too hard to communicate. The "industry" has gone through a few changes over the years, becoming more and more restrictive about what you can do as a free trial member. Yet most of the people you find in any search are sure to be non-paying... Meaning you can invest your $30+ per month, and a bunch of time writing nice personal emails to some interesting matches - And there's a good chance not one of them will even be able to read your email if they wanted to. Match doesn't even show you who the email came from any more. Were people really that disappointed with what was out there?
You don't only have to overcome the big hurdle of both people liking each other, before you can even get to that point the stars have to align for two paid members to bump into each other.
This is a fatal flaw in the model, with a simple solution - Allow paid members to communicate two-way with non-paid members when they initiate the conversation. But apparently that didn't make them enough money - So instead now they are just selling "the dream". It's false advertising, simple as that.
Notice that those sites never show you who the paid members are? That would be too easy... And too revealing! I wonder if it's 1%? (I would bet less.) If you knew, most people would do one search, discover there wasn't a single interesting member in your town able to communicate, and abandon any thought of paying to try it out.
Back in the day, when Match was new, I met a handfull of really interesting ladies there - Attractive, professional, on-the-ball women. But with all of the changes they've gone through, I'm not convinced it's practical any more. Definitely not a good investment, perhaps unless you live in a major US centre like NYC or LA. | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 4/8/2009 8:10:49 PM | Post 51 totally nails the scheme of the pay sites. It is amazing that it stands as legal that pay sites can intermingle paying members with non-paying members. The problem is that it isn't widely known by the public that non-paying members cannot read your emails or respond to them. It's a near Ponzi scheme, where they use non-paying members to entice other members to pay.
As to the 1% claim, that sounds a little low. There's a quote out there by a former higher up at Match who claimed 1 in 12 profiles was of a paying member. That sounds low too. But you can bet it's way south of a 50% rate of paying members. So not only do you have to jump the hurdle to get them to respond, you have to jump the hurdle of whether they're even a paying member who can respond. | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 4/8/2009 8:29:03 PM |
Notice that those sites never show you who the paid members are? That would be too easy... And too revealing!
They even have profile approval processes to make sure people don't say they only have the 'free' account in their profiles too.
The 'free' profile would go away entirely if they didn't need numbers for advertising purposes.
I'm not bored enough to do this exercise, but the percentage of paid accounts could be calculated by taking the number of profiles match claims to have on their site then divide the gross revenue (might be impossible to find if they are privately owned) on their annual report by an average annual cost from the fee structure. These two numbers give estimates of total profiles and paid members. If match sells advertising space the percentage of paying customers will be skewed upwards. | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 4/9/2009 4:03:05 AM |
Lobo_Corazon wrote: The big pay sites all have the same big problem - It's too hard to communicate. The "industry" has gone through a few changes over the years, becoming more and more restrictive about what you can do as a free trial member. Yet most of the people you find in any search are sure to be non-paying... Meaning you can invest your $30+ per month, and a bunch of time writing nice personal emails to some interesting matches - And there's a good chance not one of them will even be able to read your email if they wanted to. Match doesn't even show you who the email came from any more. Were people really that disappointed with what was out there?
You don't only have to overcome the big hurdle of both people liking each other, before you can even get to that point the stars have to align for two paid members to bump into each other.
I was on Adult_Friend_Finder for a year. They gave paid members the option to pay an extra $20 a month so that the non-paying people you write to can see your profile and write back. Over the course of a year that would cost more than a silver or gold membership. I tried that option for one month and didn't have much success with it. I was living in Dallas at the time, a potentially big market. I have a female friend who also had an Adult_Friend_Finder account and she was a non-paying member. She said she could sit back and wait for guys to write to her. In the first message they'd usually give her his e-mail address and then they could take the conversation off AFF if they wanted. Of course, that's against AFF's policy, but a lot of paying male members do that.
This is a fatal flaw in the model, with a simple solution - Allow paid members to communicate two-way with non-paid members when they initiate the conversation. But apparently that didn't make them enough money - So instead now they are just selling "the dream". It's false advertising, simple as that.
Yeah, paid dating sites only want the profit. They don't care if their members meet anybody off the site or not.
Notice that those sites never show you who the paid members are? That would be too easy... And too revealing! I wonder if it's 1%? (I would bet less.) If you knew, most people would do one search, discover there wasn't a single interesting member in your town able to communicate, and abandon any thought of paying to try it out.
Like I said, for the most part a woman can sit back and wait for guys to contact her with his e-mail address. At least on AFF a non-paying member can read their messages, but they can't respond. It's been 3 years since I was a paying member there, so maybe they changed their policy.
Back in the day, when Match was new, I met a handfull of really interesting ladies there - Attractive, professional, on-the-ball women. But with all of the changes they've gone through, I'm not convinced it's practical any more. Definitely not a good investment, perhaps unless you live in a major US centre like NYC or LA.
I remember when Friend_Finder (and AFF as well) used to be completely free. You could message another person and see their profile without having a paid membership. Those days are apparently gone.
I've had much better luck with meeting women with 'mail-order bride' services than I've had on domestic dating sites. Sure, a lot of those women want a better life, but so do American, Canadian, and other Western women. The only thing with that approach is that you can't just bring a woman here from another country and have her just live with you. There's a lot of red tape involved. You generally have to apply for a fiancee visa and marry her within 3 months after her arrival. Lawyers can make that process go faster, but it's not cheap either. A friend's brother brought his wife here from Cali, Colombia, and he paid more than $10,000 in immigration attorney's fees to do it. | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 4/9/2009 11:28:10 PM | I would honestly be very surprised if the number of paid members on Match was as high as 8%. If it is, maybe their business model makes more sense than I thought. (eHarmony's % is probably much lower than Match - % of men paying anyway. Let's face it, having to spend a lot of time answering endless questions before you even get a chance to see a picture is not something most men are going to respond well to!)
None of us should be surprised that a big business is out to make money without any real concern for the customers' happiness. Still, I wonder if they wouldn't make more profit if they loosened things back up enough to attract more people by making it a more useful service? Then they could reduce the price, attracting still more people (and the extra subscribers are almost pure profit, serviced by the existing computers.)
I haven't tried AFF, but I'll bet they've followed along with Match to change to forcing you to subscribe to read emails. | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 4/10/2009 12:36:26 AM | I had the most absolutely odd experience..
I met this girl on Match and we dated in a crazy way for 9 months and it ended out of the blue when I had to cancel a trip that I had already purchased tickets for etc..
Anyway she still went on dating sites. Didn't really bother me. I can remember her talking about Eharmony once but it was early on. She said she never matched with anyone period. I always laughed to myself because I thought she was kind of whacked too. But hey she had more good than bad.. or i was just having fun
Well a month after we split I signed up on eharmony and lo and behold guess who one of the first matches i was sent was....
I must be whacked too!
but really I didnt think it was so bad. Of all the sites I have been on it had the most even headed, non-materialistic, professional type females. POF is whacked but it is multi-dimensional. It is interesting to see who takes the time to explore and communicate. This place could make money... Im new.  | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/23/2009 10:26:25 PM | Well, eHarmony has a special going this Memorial Day weekend; you can shop around for free and check things out.
Being curious, I started to fill out the hundred and fifty page personality assessment (okay, not that long but it feels like it) so I could find out stuff like, how much does it cost and how does it work.
At the end of the survey, I got the big "You're the 1 in 5 people eHarmony cannot help."
*Shock.*
Fine! So my poor friend is sitting near me trying to read, and I make HER fill out the questionnaire. EHarmony exhorts you at all times to be as honest as possible, but I refuse to allow her to make any smart-assed answers that might get her axed from the service upfront.
Even so, at the end of her survey, SHE got the big "You're the 1 in 5 people eHarmony cannot help" announcement, too!
So what do we have in common? Glad you asked. There were many questions about religion in the survey. Is religion important to you? How important? Is spending time at your church important to you? Is it important to you to have ties to your church community?
Neither my friend nor I are particularly religious, or tied to a specific organized religion. Other than that, we are *miles* apart in temperament, humor, and all the other things eHarmony supposedly screens for.
Conclusion? EHarmony is making so much money off church-going people, they don't even bother with "spiritual but not religious" types.
(No offense to religious people, I'm sure you're all very nice.)
I can't recommend wasting your time checking out eHarmony. Not even for free! | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/23/2009 10:52:34 PM | Ok about 4 years ago I went to Extends Harmony..Yeah Right!
I was sent all these pictures, after filling out that book, I better get to look at pics.
One guy was standing beside a BAN SAW in his BASEMENT in Cal. I don't think he was wearing anything.
The next pic was a male, no shirt, living in Florida Everglades. You could see his shack that he lived in in the background..Guess what he was holding??? An AX...WTF????
Another pic was a guy in a blue striped suit, looked like a governor somewhere, sending me an email ...stateing I was not sophisticated enough for him. Dude I never sent you any sign of interest.
So I went to all my friends, and every night I got off work, there would be about 5 of us on my site, just jackin with all the guys. It was so much fun.
So my apologies to anyone that might have been on there back then..
OOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSS....
 LBiker | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/23/2009 11:03:32 PM | The founder of EHarmony is a very famous fundamentalist Christian who is also very politically active. I won't bother quoting all the facts but the gist is that he founded the site SPECIFICALLY for Christians, with Christian values (ie., women submit to men, etc.) to the exclusion of everyone else (free thinkers, feminists, non-religious, etc.). Of course, he put a sheen of universality to it. But, I remember a few years ago, there was a big outcry from gays/lesbians as well as atheists about how the computer algorithms so expertly blew them off (no pun intended).
And, if you look at the couples matched on the tv ads, you can just imagine how generic and cookie-cutter their responses likely were!
So, all of us independent thinkers just have to work a little harder at finding someone. But, we knew that, didn't we? | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/23/2009 11:04:50 PM | To lbiker: HAHA! Well, glad somebody got some laughs off that site! 
But really -- don't you secretly want to be carrying around a shovel or a pitchfork or something? I mean, they match you on a hundred and ninety-seven demensions of personality! So you *must* men with like saws and axes, you just don't know it!!!
Otherwise, it all makes no sense... 
But, I remember a few years ago, there was a big outcry from gays/lesbians as well as atheists about how the computer algorithms so expertly blew them off (no pun intended).
I remember that too, and noticed this time that when trying to sign up that you have only TWO choices: "I am a man looking for a woman," or "I am a woman looking for a man." Period. They're not even *trying* to pretend to accommodate anyone else. | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/23/2009 11:26:40 PM | Estrella: You got an actual rejection? Or you completed the thing, logged in and had no matches? I had no matches off the bat, but they kindof trickle in. But then, I'm Christian...
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/23/2009 11:31:04 PM | Yes. Yes, I got THE ACTUAL REJECTION. As in, "move along, we can't help you, we don't want your money, get lost."
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
I was raised Christian and would probably say I have some of the same beliefs, but since they said to "BE HONEST," I opted for "spiritual, but not religious."
Why do they even have that option? Or "Non-religious?" | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/24/2009 12:06:17 AM | Until May 25, this weekend is FREE at eharmony and you CAN communicate with your matches soooooo slip out out the back jack, make a new plan stan and get your keyboard BUSY!!!
Guess some *cough* sites missed that *serious* marketing blurp.... | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/24/2009 12:50:52 AM | | See, this is why I don't use pay sites. How is a computer, something devoid of emotion or thought process, gonna be able to know enough to match humans up? Shure, use common interests and things, but what about attraction levels? What about the spark? You can't put things like that into words, they just sorta happen. And besides, what about sites like this, or myspace that actually give you free communication as well as allow you to personalize your page in many different ways so as to let people see your true personality? If you ask me, the stupid rich people use pay sites. I'm already paying an internet bill, why do I want to pay for it twice? | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/24/2009 12:59:14 AM |
Until May 25, this weekend is FREE at eharmony and you CAN communicate with your matches soooooo slip out out the back jack, make a new plan stan and get your keyboard BUSY!!!
Yes, I said back in message 58 that they're doing a free weekend. But you *still* have to get through the survey and be approved to use the site for free or any other way!
And the best way to do THAT, if that's what you want to do, is to LIE about what a great church-goer you are and how important your faith is to you.
Oh, and don't be gay. Or feminist. | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/24/2009 3:58:37 AM | The only thing that gets successfully matched at Eharmony is Dr.Moneybags you see on TV and the suckers money. He gets matched with your cash and you get some computer selected match from the northpole. | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/24/2009 9:28:17 AM | | I must be one of the luckier ones. Granted I'm still single so I haven't been THAT lucky, but I've been on eHarmony for almost 2 years and I've gotten to the phone call stage with a bunch of people from there. Even met a few people. Perhaps my filter is set more loosely, but I get an average of 5-10 matches A DAY. Half of which are within 30-40 miles of me, which is an acceptable distance. One of the easy things I like about the site is the first stage of communication the closed ended questions are the easiest thing ever to initiate communication. You don't have to "think" of what to write to someone, just click send questions, and wait for them to answer the multiple choice questions which are just as easy to answer, and still allow you a blank space to write out your own answer. And there is always the fast track communication where you can skip the guided steps and go straight to open communication. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not promoting the site. Once my year subscription is up in June I will not be renewing, but there are some things I do like about how the site operates. I had no idea about POF until a month ago when I went out with someone(through eHarmony ironically) told me about this site and that it was free. So when that relationship didn't work out I joined this site. I definitely like this site, but have to get used to writing first messages again and getting them to stand out from the 100's of messages a day girls must be getting. | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/24/2009 11:33:13 AM | My paralegal and his wife met at eharmony.com. I met my girlfriend on match.com. I've never tried eharmony, so I can't speak for it from first-hand experience, mind you. I thought match.com was utterly fantastic. My two cents, for what it's worth.
You've got a friend,
Luke | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/24/2009 1:33:30 PM |
And the best way to do THAT, if that's what you want to do, is to LIE about what a great church-goer you are and how important your faith is to you.
You don't have to lie, my ex co-worker is a non participating christian and just got married last weekend after meeting on eharmony.
Best site I dealt with was the former justsayhi dot com which is now mingle2 dot com, that's where I met my mate 2 years ago...
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/24/2009 3:50:05 PM | Eharmony sucks.
Period.
I've tried it twice, and let me be as straightforward as possible here.
That site is not meant to cater to young attractive people who can and do meet other ways.
The few women on there who were anywhere near what I would consider my type either didn't pay for the the site, or were expecting to meet an oil tycoon.
I'm really not embellishing, either.
Eharmony's marketing makes it seem too, "magic". I think that people join that site and their expectations raise. People with super low expectations to begin with are able to find meanintful relationships and maybe have success. People who have what I could consider "normal" expectations will not find success.
Simple. | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/24/2009 5:21:56 PM | | I've joined many sites and have found very few people in my area (a small Canadian town) . Most of the time if I have found a couple, they hadnt been on in months or years. I wont sign into a site that needs card info before you can even see if there are locals, let alone in your country. True dot com and truebeginnings dot com sends me tons of mail suggesting that I had been sent mail. Total BS I'd say. | |
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| Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 5/24/2009 5:38:20 PM | | I had a similar experience with true.com. I got a lot of "winks" but not many real contacts. One woman even wrote and told me that she did not send any communitcation to me and that she suspected the organization of fabricating interests to keep people subscribing. | |
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