the people of the uk have been comfortable for too long..they will get what they vote for when they let the editors of news papers decide who should run the country..


you can know a people is very comfortable when the recession is overshadowed by someone claiming for a towel..

GOD help britain when david cameron take over..in one speech the guy is calling for fix term parliament while calling for early elections in the same speech..lol


lets talk about the economy and how it will be fixed..no,,we want to talk about straight bananas ...lol

sorry that you could not comprehend mr. Einstein

you can be minister of information when the bnp wins and that zee guy can be minister of internet forums

you can be minister of information when the bnp wins and that zee guy can be minister of internet forums

Where did you get this idea that the EU make 75% of our laws from?.

If you did actually take the trouble too then you might be surprised to find that only about 9% / 10% of those laws actually came from the EU.

It has proportional representation and is far more democratic and representative than Westminster has ever been.

Saying that the EU make 75% of our laws is only a bad thing if those laws are bad laws or restrictive on our freedoms and rights.

The laws they have introduced have given us greater rights such as better consumer protections, lower particulate pollutants in our air and better quality of beaches and seas. They have increased our protections as employees and consumers and helped improve the safety of childrens toys and other equipments and made many goods and services much cheaper. The EU opposes the UK stance on nuclear weapons and is against the UK spending at least £60 billion on replacing Trident. They are currently pushing through legislation that will allow doctors and dentists fro around Europe to work with fewer restrictions in the UK which will hopefully soon help to address the shortage of 20,000 trained dentists we have here in the UK as well as many other medical professionals of which we have a dire need in our NHS.

If these laws which you are trying to make out are such a bad thing then please say which specific laws you feel are bad and why and show us how they are more restrictive or worse for us than those examples I gave of current UK laws or worse that the laws and rights that were in place prior.

Couldn't come up with any bad laws from the EU eh?

The percentage of laws passed through our legislative body, the unelected House of Lords, amounts to about 9.4%. get yourself a list of new laws introduced in the last two years and count them yourself. 9.4% and 9.4% of good and necessary laws that improve our freedoms and increase our protections.

If you did actually take the trouble too then you might be surprised to find that only about 9% / 10% of those laws actually came from the EU.

Have a go at finding those ten bad laws either in the areas of employment, consumer protection, equal rights, product safety or increased democracy.

The EU does make nearly 80% of the laws which are passed into law within Europe but that's not true of the UK where we already had many of the rights and protections they are designed to bring already.

And to you British Obama where did i put my carestick you are a nobody from nowhere why should anyone have to justify their beliefs to you, you like the EU so much why not foxtrot oscar over there.

Besides if being ‘European’ is good enough for our own Royal Family (Greeks, Russian, German, and French) then its mighty fine by me

Monopoly??? Car seats???? Is that the best you can come up with??? I've been reading this thread with an open mind, which could be persuaded either way. However, I must find myself leaning towards Europe. Unless you can find detrimental laws that back up your argument then I'd say the Anglophiles have lost this particular argument.

The creation of the Shengen means that you or I or anyone can freely roam across borders over which many millions of people have been killed before.

The Schengen Agreement was nothing to do with the EU. It was created by various EU countries in 1985, and it wasn't incorporated into the EU law until the Amsterdam Treaty. So, it would have been quite possible for Great Britain to have had this service without being a member of the EU, just like Norway and Switzerland did.

However, the EU legislation to which you refer tries to give some additional protection to our more rural offices

Liberalisation must be implemented with caution. For the Committee, the crucial point is the need to maintain a universal service and to pay attention to co-lateral social issues, which are particularly sensitive in rural areas. Whilst the Committee does, of course, endorse in principle the opening up of postal services to competition, it stresses that the process must respect their delicate financial balance, and help to maintain and create jobs. (ref : CES/00/116. )

As you will note they are in 20 easy to understand categories such as Energy, Transport, Employment etc. If you go through them as I have done and compare them to the laws introduced in the UK during the last 10 years and divide one by the other, the number you will get to is 9.4%, as if by magic.

Please note that I did comment upon Potterings comments from your silly UKIP YouTube nonsence, read my post again. I said he was telling the truth or at least I believe him without double checking. Over 80% of laws in Europe have eminated from the EU, it's just not the case here in the UK, here it's 9.4%

How about the child car-seat law relating to 12 year-olds? That is a bad law, because it assumes that 13 year-olds aren't worthy of the same protection.

How about the monopoly law which has removed the Post Offices from our towns and villages? That's a bad law.

If it's OK with you I want to try and make this post the last one for now that focusses on the past and things that did or did not happen or who did what and when and move onto the future. I know that's going to mean that you lose your opportunity to post links to that most reliable and informed font of all knowledge, YouTube, but it's time we started talking about the only thing that really matters when it comes to Europe and that is trade.

I tried to explain to you as simply as I could that if the EU had never been invented the there would not be any Schengen.

if I am reading your post right your saying that if the UK was not in the EU then we would still be able to take advantage of the Schengen and move freely across European borders as can the people of Norway and Switzerland. I hope I got that right, we don't need to be in the EU to benefit from the freedoms provided by the Schengen.

If a British person was sitting outside that Paris bar and fancied a joint in Amsterdam all they would have to do would be to hop on that same bus the person mentioned earlier did. But, and you knew there had to be a but. If that British person was sitting outside a bar in say Manchester and fancied a joint, they will be faced by the restrictions placed upon them by the British government.

That's hardly in the spirit of the Schengen is it and certainly nothing like what Norway or Switzerland enjoy?.

I must say though that your claim that I have failed to give any benefits is a little off the mark, even that cartoon gave ten benefits, none of which you have shown to be untrue at all, not one of them

Because it is a foreign institution that has done nothing to improve our general standard of living, costs our country billions, does not represent our interests, imposes laws on us undemocratically, is geared up to the German and French way of doing things

Would anyone want their country controlled by another - especially one that doesnt really like us?

I mispelt Schengen, but then again so did you

I know your subject to change at short notice when things don't go your way

post offices. Offices, services whatever mate.

If you don't want to lose your post office, use it. What's so hard about that.

I don't want my tax money being used to subsidise inefficient and unproffitable businesses.

Have you conceded that those 75% of EU laws are not really so bad?

Just not here in the UK where we had lots of them already unlike the former Eastern European countries, here it's 9.4%

Do you think Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Peugeot etc would base their manufacturing plants in a country that wasn't part of the main economic trading bloc?

Norway and Switzerland are tiny countries with rich natural resources and don't need this kind of foreign investment.

So which country in your fantasy world runs the EU then? or is "the EU" a country?

Oh yes, I'm female as well, so ignore all the above.

Please stop saying "the nazis wanted a united Europe" as if the fact that the nazis wanted it makes the idea of a united Europe bad.

Given that their idea was for a united Aryan Europe, I think the argument lacks a certain amount of relevance......

I am minded to remember that the nazis also wanted full employment for all - is that also a bad idea just because they thought it was desirable?

What does make the European Commission answerable - albeit at one remove - is that the Commissioners are appointed by elected Governments.

The manufacturing base we do still retain in this country from the likes of Honda, Toyota, Samsung, is precisely because we are in Europe.

We pay in £x and get £x-y back? The problem here is what?

As a united Europe we will all fare better with a larger economy, not a smaller one, in harsh times. As a united economy the standard of living of all nations / states will improve.

Look at the United States. A federal nation of individual law-making states under one constitution, where the President appoints an unelected Cabinet. Why shouldn't Europe learn something from what is believed to be the most powerful nation on the planet?

Perhaps instead of decrying the status quo this argument should have been less of quotes and rebuttals and more about the reasons why an EU is, per se, a bad idea.

If we are to be united, we need to be united by ideals first and foremost, then the economics will follow.

In my opinion, the current problem is that we are better off than other economies in Europe. That is why we are seen as a desirable destination.

I wish it had worked that way too, but the UK was too pig-headed to be in it from the start and so we as latecomers have to deal with the past before we can improve for the future.

See any stats on net benefits to UK from immigration and you will realise we need immigrants to bolster our economy through the tax revenue anyway.

My ideal is for a United Europe (not for an Untied Europe as I keep typing!) whichever way we get there, because as the whole will be stronger than the sum of its parts. And with that strength we can, maybe, have some effective say in the other troubles of the world that require powerful voices to sway the argument for a better world - peace, clean water, universal education, a greener world, the chance to work wherever you want without fear, whatever your personal dreams for the planet are.

And for zg - you still haven't got the point about "the nazis and Europe" argument, have you? I know they wanted it, I am not disputing that's a fact. What I object to is your use of this argument - "they wanted it so it must be wrong".

And finally, I promise, that wonderfully high-living-standard country Switzerland has all the benefits of being in the EU but because of being historically always neutral, it just doesn't sign up to the Treaty.

The EU is a nazi organisation. Few people know that the Treaty of Rome states that the goal is 'ever closer political union'. That means only one thing - one nation, one state, one leader.

Does that sound familiar? It's exactly what Napolean and Hitler wanted, although they weren't as patient as the EU is

because the EU is a nazi organisation that I am against it