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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/14/2009 12:50:04 PM |
keep filling this country with scum from europe instead the french taking them,but they keep expecting us to take the criminals from eastern europe DOn't kid yourself, it's the british government that decides our immigration controls not europe. For instance the rest of europe banned people from the new eastern european member states from working but the british allowed them | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/14/2009 1:02:10 PM | MSG 349 I know they are difficult to read (both for your typing style and the amount of BS one has to wade through) but have you ever considered reading your own posts?
If you had, you would have seen what you wrote in MSG 340:
So I can only guess as to why so many are, maybe the words "European Union"
First off, "European": "GARLIC, BREAD???!!!" Need I say more??
Secondly the word "UNION", well this puts off a lot of people
You stated this as an explanation as to why some people are against the EU.
I responded:
"You obviously haven't read any of the posts on this thread, or any sites devoted to the EU........not one of them mentions the name."
Perhaps I should have ended that sentence with "as a reason for opposing the EU"?
So you'll be providing a source?
Yup!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics
Enjoy the read!
But you say "commie" as if it's a bad thing?
That's because it IS!
Commies have been responsible for more deaths in their short history than any other belief....
MSG 351 I'm impressed, and you saved me a lot of typing. | |
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| : "Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/14/2009 1:34:21 PM |
So I can only guess as to why so many are, maybe the words "European Union"
First off, "European": "GARLIC, BREAD???!!!" Need I say more??
Secondly the word "UNION", well this puts off a lot of people
With you so far....
You stated this as an explanation as to why some people are against the EU.
I responded:
"You obviously haven't read any of the posts on this thread, or any sites devoted to the EU........not one of them mentions the name."
Perhaps I should have ended that sentence with "as a reason for opposing the EU"?
Aah ! I see, well the op asked:
"Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?"
And so I wondered if it might be that.....
The name really is very important.
And "European Union" does sound like a euphemism for something quite unsavory....
MSG 351 I'm impressed, and you saved me a lot of typing.
and yet, only a few short post ago you said
Your lines always end too soon).
Fickle..... | |
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| : Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/14/2009 2:11:01 PM |
With you so far....
Er......I didn't write the words in the quoted section - YOU did!
As I said, if you read your own posts now and again.....
Aah ! I see, well the op asked:"Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?"And so I wondered if it might be that.....The name really is very important.
And yet you had absolutely no evidence to support that comment......
Fickle.....
Er......if you look carefully, you'll see that you didn't write MSG 351! The comment about short lines WAS addressed to you, because of the way your lines
do this, for some reason. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/14/2009 10:31:27 PM | Msg 351
our geographical location holds against us we're remote from the center of power
What tosh!
Being located geographically far away from the centre of power hasn't stopped the Scots "ruling" in Westminster, or the Northern Irish taking a disproportionate amount of Westminster's time. Great Britain ruled an Empire yet is situated far away from the centre of that Empire, and communications then were a lot slower than they are today. UK MEPs can probably get to Brussels in near-enough the same amount of time as MEP from Greece, Eire, Romania or Poland. "Being on the sidelines" is a frame of mind, an attitude, not a result of geographical location.
if we were we a soverign nation again it would hold in our favour and we could play the traditional game of divide and conquer over France and German using the old concept of the grand alliance
Traditional? Game?
Don't you take this seriously?
Why are you looking back to the past?
Haven't we grown-up and got past the idea of forming alliances in order to wage war?
The Grand Alliance when we were allied to German States (amongst others) to fight France was superseded by our alliance with France against Germany in two World Wars.
I don't doubt we could "play the game" of dividing France and Germany from within the EU as well as we could outside it, but why on earth should we? Is there any plausible reason why we should want to stop them living in harmony after so many years of war?
The other part of that phrase though leaves me shaking my head in disbelief. "And conquer". Apart from not understanding why we should want to conquer France and Germany (is that the limit of your territorial ambitions?) do you seriously, hand-on-heart, believe in Britain's current greatness amongst nations? We have never conquered and ruled either France or Germany, can you see either of them setting up a separate alliance with us against the other in order to be ruled by us? They understand what war on their territory means, they won't invite it back.
We are a little minnow in the backwaters, playing above our league (sorry, mixed metaphors) because we borrow nuclear weapons from, and carry them around the globe for, the US (that's the true special relationship, it has nothing to do with anything else).
If power "games" are what you think the post-war, nuclear-armed world is about, then we had better start really toadying up to the US and ask to become the 51st State if we leave the EU, because as an independent nation we have far too little going for us except maybe a moral high ground based on history, not the present. | |
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| : Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:34:38 AM |
That's because it IS!
Commies have been responsible for more deaths in their short history than any other belief....
How about Fashism of Nazi Germany, where does that stand in your calculation?
Of course the estimates vary wildly, but the general consensus is rated in the millions... in how many years!
Or do you have some evidence to back up your claim? | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/17/2009 5:12:52 AM | I haven't read all the responses here, but as an Irish man i'll give you a point being missed here.
The EU was set up to prevent future wars, and contain Germany.
Britain sees Europe as a place dominated by France and their ideas and they don't like that.
They miss the bigger picture of the EU that it creates peace in Europe. For me thats reason enough to have the EU despite it being far from perfect. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/17/2009 6:25:41 AM |
So is there a viable effective alternative for the UK that will not leave us economically destitute? Yes, the EEA.
Clearly this genius suggestion has been ovelooked by 'Dave' (who no longer seems to want to give us a referendum either), '2 brains Willets' and the others in the tory party. Why?
If it's such a great financial prospect (and UK plc is short of dosh) and given the grass roots dislike of the EU amongst Tory party members, it's amazing that they too haven't latched on to this.
So how much would the UK save and be better off if it got out of the EU and became an EEA member? | |
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| : Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/17/2009 6:31:08 AM | How about Fashism of Nazi Germany, where does that stand in your calculation?
Not even close in terms of numbers.
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
If you take certain government courses or education in certain fields youl get given the below, that shows that democrcys are teh safest bplace to live for the average person, and communist kill more of tghere own than any other form of go9vernmentg etc.
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
Or do you have some evidence to back up your claim?
You mean like how its been taught for several decades you mean?.
Whats up, never been to school?.
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/18/2009 7:43:57 AM |
Clearly this genius suggestion has been ovelooked by 'Dave' (who no longer seems to want to give us a referendum either), '2 brains Willets' and the others in the tory party.
And you know this because?
Have you read any statements from the Tory Party in which it states its opposition to being in the EEA?
So how much would the UK save and be better off if it got out of the EU and became an EEA member?
Membership of the EEA doesn't cost Norway a penny. It makes contributions to EU member states (much as the UK does with the ODC).
The UK will be paying £6 Billion for our EU membership soon....
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
Yup, when it comes to killing people, the commies are in a league of their own
HTFH
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/19/2009 6:43:16 PM |
Have you read any statements from the Tory Party in which it states its opposition to being in the EEA?
Nope. Haven't read any statements that say they are opposed to belonging to the Dennis The Menace Fan Club either. But what is pertinent is that I have seen no proposals from the tory party that Britain withdraws from full EU membership and becomes an EEA member.
Oh and Norway does pay - though some payments are offset. It also has a few things that the EU would like it to bring to the party. Like oil reserves, lots of wealth, its oil and gas pipelines, fishing rights in the North sea and along its huge coastline, copious sustainable wood reserves; lots of things which Blighty is a bit devoid of having had a long term spending spree shoring up the pound, pretending it is still a world super-power, a big diplomatic service, wars and other trifles.
What also seems to be slipping from the tory list of promises is a referendum on EU membership. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:22:04 PM | | I say to all of this that I've never heard the British are so opposed to the EU but don't like the yanks having the NRA. But we're called flaming idiots by some of their heftier women and I say, we're NOT gay, we smoke a lot of fags is all. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:46:59 AM |
But what is pertinent is that I have seen no proposals from the tory party that Britain withdraws from full EU membership and becomes an EEA member.
That's because the UK is already a member:
http://researchgp.sghms.ac.uk/index.cfm?767DA55C-92F3-CBCD-665D-E1CFB2EC214E
Oh and Norway does pay -
It doesn't pay to be a member of the EEA - no-one does.
It does make contributions to EU countries in the form of 'aid', just like the UK does to various parts of the world.
also has a few things that the EU would like it to bring to the party. Like oil reserves, lots of wealth, its oil and gas pipelines, fishing rights in the North sea and along its huge coastline, copious sustainable wood reserves
Er....the EU has access to all those, through the use of a system we call 'trade'.....it's an ancient concept that you've mentioned in a few posts - I naturally assumed you knew what the word meant.
ots of things which Blighty is a bit devoid of having had a long term spending spree shoring up the pound, pretending it is still a world super-power, a big diplomatic service, wars and other trifles.
Please don't dismiss our wars as being 'trifles' - men are being killed out there, and I'd rather you showed a little respect.
So, are you complaining about Britain's global position as a 'world-power', or bragging about it? The fact is, our position in the world would not be affected by our leaving the EU.
What also seems to be slipping from the tory list of promises is a referendum on EU membership.
So they have to repeat it on a regular basis? Check MSG 299 for further info from Dave. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/20/2009 3:17:32 AM |
But what is pertinent is that I have seen no proposals from the tory party that Britain withdraws from full EU membership and becomes an EEA member.
So where are the Tory party proposals to that effect - i.e. to withdraw from full EU membership and hold on to EEA membership? If that makes such 'economic sense' why aren't they proposing it? | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:05:46 PM |
So where are the Tory party proposals to that effect - i.e. to withdraw from full EU membership and hold on to EEA membership?
Dunno, don't care, either......
Try this link, if you're interested in finding out Tory policy on this:
www.conservatives. eu/eea.com
HTH | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/20/2009 6:54:40 PM |
Have you read any statements from the Tory Party in which it states its opposition to being in the EEA?
WTF are you chattin now?
This is something thats come up in your own head ZeeGary, so why would anybody who matters talk about it?
Technically, though we are not in the EEA**, because we are in the EU.
Austria, Finland and Sweden joined the EEA in 1994, but the EEA agreement was superseded by EU membership in 1995.
[Wikipedia]
Membership of the EEA doesn't cost Norway a penny.
It does cost Norway money to be part of the EEA, even if its only to pay for the fax paper to send messages to the EU.
A cost that would otherwise not be there.
But in reality money was spent on thing like law adoption, upgrading things to certain standards to allow trade with EEA and EU members etc.
Oh and of course it also makes contributions to member states...
I can see where your comming from now though, but unfortunatly theres no such thing as a free ride with this kind of thing, it will always cost, and the if you want to play a large role in things like we do then it will cost more.
However, I would say that at the minute our input / output with the EU is disproportinate with other members with the same means.
We will see if the Torys are men of their words IF they are elected...
However EU membership isnt in question, and I get the feeling you would like it to be.
Its the level of involvment that is whats being decided, not membership, and for us to become members of the EEA exclusivly we would need to leave the EU proper.
**Where EEA is used to describe the EEA agreement made in 1994
That's because the UK is already a member:
http://researchgp.sghms.ac.uk/index.cfm?767DA55C-92F3-CBCD-665D-E1CFB2EC214E
Thats funny, you dont seem to have a grasp on it at all really...
quite amusing in a way!
We are members of the EU, as members of the EU we are in the EEA, but in 1994 the "EEA agreement" was made, and that allowed none EU members to join the EEA, which is the common market [something we joined in the '70s in case your having trouble keeping up ;) ]
So we are in the EEA, but not in the same was as Norway, so talking about being members of the EEA, and being members there of wouldnt mean as much to us, the UK, as it would to Norway.
Your view tries to simplify it, but it doesnt work zeegary, its to complicated to take it down to that level...
I would suggest you either think about it on the level it is or leave it alone, because otherwise it kinda looks like your not to sure what your talking about :S
I mean quoting this website
http://researchgp.sghms.ac.uk/index.cfm?767DA55C-92F3-CBCD-665D-E1CFB2EC214E
Saying look we are members of the EEA, implying the 1994 EEA agreement just doesnt make sense, the rights and duties of EEA agreement members are not the same as those of EU members, which is what we are. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/21/2009 2:16:27 PM |
WTF are you chattin now?
This is something thats come up in your own head ZeeGary, so why would anybody who matters talk about it?
Technically, though we are not in the EEA**, because we are in the EU.
Hmm....you deride me for talking about the EEA, then spend an entire post talking about it yourself.
OK
Anyway, I quite enjoyed your verbal acrobatics as you argued with yourself. It began with:
Technically, though we are not in the EEA**, because we are in the EU.
And continued with:
We are members of the EU, as members of the EU we are in the EEA, but in 1994 the "EEA agreement" was made, and that allowed none EU members to join the EEA, which is the common market...
So, in your post, we are not in the EEA and we are in the EEA!
And you accuse me of not having a grasp on it!
Then, you go further:
So we are in the EEA, but not in the same was as Norway, so talking about being members of the EEA, and being members there of wouldnt mean as much to us, the UK, as it would to Norway.
Is there an English version of this statement?
Your view tries to simplify it, but it doesnt work zeegary, its to complicated to take it down to that level...
No, it's a simple concept, and one that I can explain in plain English....shame others cannot do the same.
It does cost Norway money to be part of the EEA, even if its only to pay for the fax paper to send messages to the EU.
Well, if we spend less than £6 billion a year on our faxes to the EU once we have left it, then I consider that to be a bargain.
Anyway, thanks for the laugh!
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:06:46 PM | //Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU?//
.. I would imagine that it had something to do with the proud independence of Britain. We like our pound and we rejoice in our sence of fair play and united status.
Europe is full of beautiful cultures.. Different.. World enriching.
.. But.. Just look at the eurovision song contest.. :) It's a shambles..
Great Britain is a bit messed up.. But look at what we've given the world. The Beatles spring to mind.
The European union numbs a countries unique qualities and tries to throw blankets of rules over continents.. The call for world unity is a good thing but only if all countries are on the same page (it's quite apparent that they're not). | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 11/15/2009 12:14:38 PM | Now that the Lisbon Treaty has been ratified it is clear that the majority of claims made against the EU have been incorrectly attributed to them when the real problem is and always has been the UK government.
Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty states....
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention.
In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the
framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on
behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
9.5.2008 EN Official Journal of the European Union C 115/43
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
It is now clear therefore that it has never been a case of the EU holding the UK against it's will. The EU says you can leave if you want too, it is sucessive British governments that have denied the people of this country a referendum. It has been the British government that has negotiated and supported every one of the laws which EU opponants claim have been forced upon the UK almost in self denial that each and every one of those laws has passed through exactly the same legislative process of every 'home made' law. It is the British government who denies a voice in it's parliament to the BNP and UKIP. It is the British government that continues to allow a totally unelected House of Lords to dominate our politics and law making. It is the British government that supports our continued wasting of billions to maintain our position as a nuclear power. It is the British government that took this country into war in Iraq and Afganistan and it is the British government who can turn a blind eye to millions of people protesting about the war, fox hunting, poll tax and any number of other issues whereas the EU allows any issue on which one million people have strong feelings to be raised and debated in the European parliament.
Is it time now to accept that it is not the EU that is undemocratic and unwilling to listen to the voice of the people it represents but the democratically deficient and contemptable British government which the anti EU supporters appear to want to give even more power than they already have?.
Seems that the BNP, UKIP and others have had the wrong bad guy all along. Various political parties and governments here in the UK have opposed the Lisbon Treaty just so they apportion blame on others for unpopular policies and decisions. Now they can blame no-one but themselves. The message now clearly ringing out from European discussion forums similar to this one is that if the UK is against the EU and what it is trying to acheive then leave, no-one is stopping us. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 11/16/2009 5:44:21 PM | Graffiti Poet...
That was a very insightful post and I've just read something on the BBC website...
"Buried deep in the treaty is a kind of anti-integration time-bomb, a clause which sets out clearly for the first time how an EU member state could withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements".
"But some on the continent, privately at least, now think the current UK-EU relationship might need to end".
"Sir Stephen Wall, who is very keen on the UK remaining in the EU, concedes that in economic terms, the consequences of leaving should not be exaggerated. "Catastrophe it isn't," he says".
"The current reluctance of mainstream politics to talk about these scenarios flies in the face of British opinion poll results suggesting a strong - even a majority - interest in leaving the EU if a close relationship can be maintained with Europe".
"You can't swim for ever against the current of public opinion".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8359160.stm | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 11/17/2009 8:38:15 AM | It isn't just article 50 which gives a clear mechanism for any nation who wants to leave the EU to do so. There is also now something, or rather will soon be something, called a 'Citizens Initiative'. Although the full details are not yet completely finalised there is Green Paper for consultation. You can read detail here.....http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/secretariat_general/citizens_initiative/docs/com_2009_622_en.pdf.
This will allow any issue on which over 1 million people, across an number of member states who feel strongly about it to be raised for discussion in the European parliament. The call for a referendum here in the UK has fallen on deaf ears as far as all the British politicians are concerned and it is not just the British that feel agrieved at not being given a say. This initiative could, and should, be used as a mechanism for ensuring that we do get a referendum after all and it will be the EU that gives it to us and not Westminster.
Most of the arguments about sovereignty and democracy used by the anti EU supporters have been debunked now the treaty is ratified and they are left with little to oppose the EU with now. It will be interesting to hear what each of the UK political parties has to say about article 50 and the citizens intiative especially Mr. Cameron who has gone on record as saying that he will not 'let matter rest there'. Now we should see what, if any, substance to that comment there really is. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 11/19/2009 12:36:30 PM | Baroness Cathy Ashton has just been nominated as Foreign Policy Chief and Vice President of the Commission for the EU. She is British trade minister to the EU nd now becomes the highest level female politician in Europe.
Her selection was said by President Barosso to be a means of demonstrating to the UK just how important they are the European Union. I think her appointement is a great honour for this nation and a big step forward for women. It will hopefully spur a great many other women into politics and hopefully they will soon take up their 51% of seats in Westminster that should be theirs by right.
She is also a strong CND supporter and once worked for them.
With the appointment of Van Rompuy as EU President and his commitment to honour the individual sovereignty of each member state, this should now lay to rest most of the accusations of being like the Nazi's much favoured by anti EU people.
Today was a good day for the EU, for the UK and for women. | |
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