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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 11:08:26 AM |
The myth that the EU banned the sale of bendy bananas is exactly that; a myth. Doesn't matter whether you agree with that, or think it's rubbish, it's a myth, no ifs, no buts, End of. The information people have posted here trying to show it's not a myth even prove it is a myth if they had bothered to read it properly.
Really?
I'm not sure how it is possible for something which some claim to be a myth can possibly provide such evidence.
It's like someone turning up at your house and stating that they no longer exist.
So, to prevent further discourse, any chance that you could quote the relevant section of the directive which states that it doesn't deal with the curvature of bananas?
Please ensure that you don't include any references to said bananas!
There are many things raised in here as objections to the European Union which are not even things for which the EU has any responsibility. For example immigration. Laws pertaining to immigration into the UK are passed in Westminster and not in Brussels.
Wrong!
The Treaty of Rome (and various other treaties) guarantee freedom of movement within the EU for all EU citizens (and their spouses, whether European or not).
Here's a link to a left-wing newspaper:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/06/immigration.immigrationpolicy
It really is a great loss to the UK to see them leaving but whatever your views, it should be remembered that the EU is not responsible for who does and who doesn't get into the UK.
Name ten things which we wouldn't have had if the EU didn't exist. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 11:13:55 AM | Hello Energy Healer,
I would be very interested to hear your views on item e) in my post.
Although some immigrants are undoubtedly claiming benefits they must be entitled to them under the rules of the benefit system or by law. Did you know that 1 in 6 households in Liverpool are claiming disability benefits?. I am not suggesting for one minute that any of those claims are not valid, but our benefits system takes quite a lot of understanding just to obtain the benefits to which you are entitled let alone fraudulently obtain any. I doubt that these immigrants from Poland or elsewhere, who are, for the most part, very proud and hard working people, are savvy enough to participate in benefit fraud. From my past invesigations into this subject, I would suggest to you that over 90% of all benefit fraud is committed by indigenous people although by it's very nature it would be almost impossible to prove absolutely.
However, since this is not a thread on immigration or benefits I will leave that for another time. My point was that being anti EU because of any of the issues surrounding immigration is something of a strawman argument. The EU does not and cannot affect immigration into the UK and should not therefore be blamed for any problems it causes. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 11:24:22 AM | Just a quick comment on the skills sets of the immigrants and it relevance to the UK work force.
The UK has one of the highest pool of unemployed graduates , something like 17% so there is folk in the UK that can do the job but employers are deeming it to expensive to employ or train folk and will take advantage of folk willing to work for less.
If you look at something like engineering and the goveremts skilled immagrants point scoring system the one skill thats supposidly lacking is high integrity pressure pipe welding rather than computer programmers, engineer, scientists etc.
The cry of lack of skilled peopel often goes hand in hand with the realily of employers not willing to train or employ "expensive" skills | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 11:52:27 AM | | im still waiting for my points in msg 43 and 45 to be answered lol its tax credits that were taken out the country after all, who could say how many kids they have? it was the treaty of rome that opend our borders but france germany put limits on theirs | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 12:00:38 PM | Patience dear boy patience. I only get a limited amount of computer access time here in Broadmoor. It's coming, it's coming.  . I was kind of hoping some other good spirited European citizen would have jumped in to help me with the workload, there's lots been asked or commented on m8.
PS, Can someone tell me how you do them quotes in highlighted backgrounds. Ta | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 12:12:55 PM |
For example immigration. Laws pertaining to immigration into the UK are passed in Westminster and not in Brussels
totally incorrect, the Treaty of Rome gurantees freedom of movement within the EU.
there are also EU targets on how many non-EU immigrants member states must take.
Since the wall came down some 33% of immigration comes from within the EU as part of the free movement of workers. As most people are aware the largest proportion of these come from Poland.
Does that not imply that the EU member ship has caused 33% of immigrants to come in, the vast majority from Poland.
Some interesting information about Poland should be noted.
trade with Poland in 2008 increased 30%, in no small part due to the influx of Poles into the UK. Our trade with Poland went up just over 24% to just under £3 billion which is 15% of their import market
could that not be as a direct result of Polish workers sending money home? Poland is one of the poorest countries in Europe. And for years had the highest unemployment rate, but no longer.. might be because they have exported their unemployed?
Most are multi lingual placing little or no additional cost on this country for translation, Many have two high quality university degrees in subjects British industry is crying out for, language skills, engineering, computer science, teaching, dentistry and construction
so the signs that are multiplying in the South can all be ripped down then.
I assume that a link showing the "many degrees" can be provided.
NHS (which is 40% staffed by immigrant workers),
but how many are Polish???
Polish immigrants, who tend to be young, fit and healthy and therefore place minimal demands upon our health service, are amongst the most law abiding and the girls are much cuter than their often drunken British counterparts.
can you provide facts that back up the fitness and the law abiding bit, because UK people do not see this.
They might be fit and healthy, and also of child rearing maturity, so therefore would it not be possible that they have done this in Poland and can claim benefits for their families left behind (these families incidentally that live on benefits are amongst the richest in their areas on benefits alone)
After fighting alongide us in the Free Polish Army against the Germans, Italians and Russians they found their country sold out to communist Russia by the war criminal Churchill and chose to stay here
this would be the same russian army that fought on our side??? Unless im mistaken Russia was an ally, and therefore fought on the same side?
The same Russia that lost more soldiers than anyone else in WWII.
As for Churchill being a war criminal.... let us not forget why WWII started (and that Churchill was not in the hot seat when it did)... it was because the whole of the Allied pact came to the rescue of Poland when it was invaded by the Germans.
To call Churchill a war criminal, when he was instrumental in Poland surviving the war in the extent it did, is a disgrace.
The fact is that the Polish immigrants are exactly the type of immigrants that this country needs to succeed
Immigrants from a country who can only beat Bulgaria and Latvia in the GDP per capita stakes, indicating that either they are one of the poorest countries in the EU, or the most workshy.
If they are so good, why is Poland one of the worst EU states for economic success?
should also be noted that Poland and it's economy is one of the fastest growing in Europe
Actually totally incorrect, and misleading, of the 12 "new member states" it ranked 11th in 2005, 8th in 2006, 7th in 2007 and 5th in 2008. so hardly one of the fastest, indeed, well below half way!
soon overtake Germany as the Economic powerhouse of Europe
as it is currently 9th out of 27 states, that comment is laughable if it wasnt meant to be serious.
In terms of GDP per capita (possibly an indication of the effectiveness of the workforce) then it ranks 25th, only beating Romania and Bulgaria. Beaten by those economic powerhouses such as Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.
EU is not responsible for who does and who doesn't get into the UK.
yes it is.
The point of this post is to illustrate the simple fact that there is so much rheotric and bull being spouted about how great these Economic migrants are for the UK.
If this is the case, why are governments in the EU (Poland is a great example) asking for EU subsidies to help them pay their workers to come home.
These migrants are here because they can make more money, through work, through benefits, through whatever way they can.
it isnt because they are good, are beneficial, it is because they are cheap, nothing more.
The real reason i beleive so many people are opposed to the EU in the UK, is that it is costing more money, is undemocratic, and seems so unfair in terms of what other countries do. (it is).
there is so much of UK money being eroded, and also our liberites, which are not in other countries.
Other countries are IN the EU but not RULED by the EU.
The smoking ban is a great example. (enforced draconianly in the UK, but choice given elsewhere in the EU)
for the record, I live and work in Germany, so can see this happening at first hand. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 12:33:13 PM | OK Zeegary, I'll take that challenge. Ten things that we wouldn't have if it wasn't for the EU. But I'll take them one at a time because you may have noticed, I do like the sound of my own voice when it comes to writing. I'll post ten things one at a time and you post a one post rebuttle to show me wrong.
The first thing I think we have now because of the European Union is greater freedom. The creation of the Shengen means that you or I or anyone can freely roam across borders over which many millions of people have been killed before. There was a time when anyone wanting to go from East Berlin to West Belin had to have the ability to run like Linford Christy on speed to hope to avoid getting a bullet in the back.
It is now possible to move between countries within Europe as it is here in the UK. Without any need for permission or visa of passport. Unhindered and free to roam with nothing more than a bus ticket or a bicycle. And it's not just the member countries of the EU who are members of the Shengen. This map shows the area covered http://www.axa-schengen.com/images/schengen_countries_UK.gif.
As you will note the UK and Ireland are not in it. This country is denying the rights of people in Europe to roam freely at will and the Europeans are extending no such restrictions on us.
So in answer your question, greater freedom to roam in an area covering almost one third of the globe is something that you wouldn't have without the EU. Do you agree that we have greater freedom because of the EU?.
I think I'll do Democracy next, show you how they have improved that too. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 12:42:44 PM | There is a great danger if we become one assimilated EU zone with same wages, same conditions etc . And anyone who has lived in an Enterprise zone which has had its funding cut will no doubt understand that In times of recession industries tend to centralise and let go of distant satellite sites.
judging by the map of Europe that would mean in the long term that what little manufacturing we have left, it would eventually migrate to Germany and France.
I like Europe but Vive La a difference!- lets trade with them but keep our british Identity and independance. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 12:47:07 PM |
I LOOK FORWARD TO GETTING OUT ,I CANT STAND BEING IN THERE,AN COWARD BROWN KEEPS ASKING HOW HIGH,GET RID OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACT AN CLEAR ENGLAND OF ALL FOREIGNERS
Fair play to the guy, the foriegners come here should intergrate with us, embrace our history,herritage, our customs, an speak the queens english,
I don't think you would need to be a rocket scientist to read those 2 statements and see that they don't exactly match up. Firstly you want them to go home, then you say they can stay if they integrate with us. But later on you say if foreign millionares come over they can't give an immigrant a job, how on earth can people integrate if you don't allow them to work?
I don't think there's much anyone could twist about those 2 opposing statements. You also spoke up in support of the Nottingham post master who is himself an immigrant, I am merely asking you why on one thread you want all foreigners to be cleared off and in others you say if they learn our ways and speak the Queens English they can stay.
I have no issue with people being pro English, if you are proud of being English then good on you, I am proud of being Scottish, however, I don't want all immigrants to go home, that's where my views differ from some people's.
I'm not going to pin the racist badge on people, but if people are going to make comments about immigrants leaving the UK and then saying something different elsewhere, then I am going to ask them what it is they mean.
I also know people who are proud of being English, Scottish, Welsh etc, but they don't want to see immigrants put out of the UK, so it is possible to have differing views and still be proud of the country you were born in, or live in.
6- 1- foreign millionaires who want bring there companies here to make,sell their products in England would be charged a tax of a million .5 a year going up 40% every year here for the priviledge to be here, there will be other charges on top of that,
2- there be allowed to stay for only 10 years, but they WILL not be allowed to own any property
3- there will be a top charge for use of our NHS, NO BENEFITS WATSOEVER
they can only employ english,no foreigners
So what you are saying is that you want immigrants to be sent home, but you would welcome foreign millionaires as long as they employed English people? So immigrants are welcome as long as they are millionaires and only employ English people.
So it's a question of money. You don't want immigrants but if they were loaded you would make an exception as long as they only offered English people work?
What if someone was Swedish, or French, have they to be excluded from a job because they aren't English? Can't you see how ridiculous that statement might look?
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 12:50:00 PM |
OK Zeegary, I'll take that challenge. Ten things that we wouldn't have if it wasn't for the EU. But I'll take them one at a time because you may have noticed, I do like the sound of my own voice when it comes to writing. I'll post ten things one at a time and you post a one post rebuttle to show me wrong.
OK......btw I sent you an email regarding help with quotes.
The first thing I think we have now because of the European Union is greater freedom. The creation of the Shengen means that you or I or anyone can freely roam across borders over which many millions of people have been killed before.
Thanks for giving me an easy one to start with.
The Schengen Agreement was nothing to do with the EU.
It was created by various EU countries in 1985, and it wasn't incorporated into the EU law until the Amsterdam Treaty.
So, it would have been quite possible for Great Britain to have had this service without being a member of the EU, just like Norway and Switzerland did.
Next!! | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 12:57:14 PM |
So in answer your question, greater freedom to roam in an area covering almost one third of the globe is something that you wouldn't have without the EU. Do you agree that we have greater freedom because of the EU?.
As you will note the UK and Ireland are not in it.
Therefore nothing has changed.
it is important to note what Schengen also does, it aligns the rules for the police, judiciary and customs.
so one instance might be that a person licenced to carry a firearm in France, can bring it into the UK with nothing to stop them.
so schengen not only would let people roam free, it would also let anyone that has got into a Schengen country also roam free....
Eg any illegal that happens to be in the EU. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 1:14:04 PM | the people who complain about immigrants will find something else to complain about when all immigrants and their descendants are gone..they just like being angry.you have to leave them at their game.
No we certainly wont complain about all these scoungers going, we wouldnt have the preachers of hate walking round sprouting there fithy vemon, an poision towards the whites, an other foreigners, its got nothing to do with angry, but the imcompetence an the failure of the "inept labour party" lowering an getting rid of our borders this country has been ruined by the influx of immigrants europe want out of there countries! | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 1:50:01 PM | EnergyHealer22 I thought (hoped) that your stance in the 'wat wud u change' thread was tongue in cheek.
Sadly, while you repeatedly proclaim your vitriolic spewings to be those of a man simply proud to be English, they sound in actuality rather like the mentality that allowed the events that caused World War II to take place.
Infact one can't help but wonder if you would in actuality support the formation of a UK government sponsored military force that went around the nation expelling or executing people who fit your (rather loose) definition of a foreigner.
Your perpetual labelling of foreigners as dirty scroungers IS offensive, and frankly it's 'proud english people' with your mentality who make me ashamed to admit that I share the same nationality. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 2:03:15 PM | Whoa, slow down cowboy, Your switching goalposts on me. You need to throw down your jumper and leave it be.
Your original challenge asked name ten things we wouldn't have if the EU didn't exist. And that greater freedom exists as your right, enshrined in your constitution, only because the EU exists. There was no plans whatsoever being made my this government to negotiate any such agreement with any of the countries involved. It is only because the EU exists that you have that right now and you would not have it without the EU.
Your answer suggests that you prefer 10 reasons why Britain needs us to actually be a member to get the benefits?. Is that true?, because I wouldn't have taken you up on that one. In all the time I have spent looking into the EU I cannot find a single benefit of being a member that we will lose. We will still get any benefits by default, even new ones that come along. As an ex member, Well, fear not, we will still get whatever it is that they get. or at least, you'll still get the benefts your government wants you to get and other benefits and freedoms will be taken from you in the name of "Independance" whatever that means. We will actually gain a little financially from our contributions but you'd be amazed how little. Think a couple of good lottery wins or two Chelsea strikers, that sort of dough. Not much in the scheme of things honest.
We will still be extended those fullest rights when we leave these shores, whether to live, or to work or just visit, but the self-imposed restraints that will be lost to us will be re-attatched upon our return. We will will effectively lock oursleves in at night. Secure in the knowledge that we have defended our "Freedom and Independance" once again.
I would sincerely doubt that the EU would renage on any of it's financial obligations in the many hundreds of developments and investments they have made into our economy. It might be harder somehow to trade with them after if they took us at our word and let us try and negotiate so many individual international trade deals alone, trade agreements and deals which would require beaurocratic armies to produce and have the Commons and Lords sitting 24/7. Our trading power outside the EU is about the same as as Afriucan nation of the 70's run by a cannibal dictator, I know we are on the subject of the EU, but it sorta linked. How good a deal you expecting a bankrupt country to get alone?.
We would look like political idiots even thinking it. No, I thunk not, all deals and agreements and commitments that the EU has made before or during our membership will be honoured fully. We might find things tougher a bit going forward, after all if it was you, would you trade with a stranger or one of your mates. Europe is is our economy full stop, and biting the hand that feeds you is a quck way to the international dole queues here at home.
Then, because we will still be taking all the benefits from the EU without making our rightfull contribution, we would effectively be on the dole and getting EU benefits handouts. getting some more of our contributions back. Ah, well every cloud eh!. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 2:16:08 PM | | It is a disgrace that us honest Englishmen should have to put up with all these East European workers coming over here with their bloody work ethic! We've perfected the arts of being lazy and scrounging from the reducing numbers of people who are prepared to work and they are showing us up. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 2:24:32 PM |
Your original challenge asked name ten things we wouldn't have if the EU didn't exist.
I was looking forward to seeing ten too.
And that greater freedom exists as your right,
As Britian is not part of schengen, then how does this exist, it is the same as it has always been.
enshrined in your constitution
OOOO britain has a constitution now.... lemme see, lemme see!!!
only because the EU exists
as Schengen existed before the EU, the previous poster illustrated completely that the EU is of NO benfot whatsoever in this instance.
I would love to hear how an unelected body has brought democracy to one of the founding countries of democracy as was promised earlier though.
These are the reasons why the British people are so opposed to the EU, so many so called facts are thrown about, that they find it hard to see the reality.
and as for being "net gainer", I would love to see some facts or a link to support that little gem! | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 2:26:31 PM | " Your perpetual labelling of foreigners as dirty scroungers IS offensive, and frankly it's 'proud english people' with your mentality who make me ashamed to admit that I share the same nationality."
thats the unfortunate downside that has divided england in the 12 years of imcompetence of the labour partys failing has a goverment who hasn t got a clue,
there the ones soley responible for this countrys demise,not the people who they have turned an changed into people who were tolerant an forgiving an friendly,
into unforgiving an very very intorent of foreigners, an everything else, there hell bent on has i ve said before they ultimaty want to give sole charge of this country to the eec, it will happen under this useless goverment. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 2:30:25 PM | Are you ever going to take responsibility for your own unpleasant mentality or are you just going to carry on blaming the government and everyone else?
It matters not a jot how crap the government is or how easy they've made the system to abuse....if YOU are intolerant and hate-filled it's because YOU have made the choice to be that way. And THAT is what is so despicable. | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 2:45:13 PM | "Are you ever going to take responsibility for your own unpleasant mentality or are you just going to carry on blaming the government and everyone else? "
of cause i take responsibility for my thoughts an views, its a very intolerent society
very unforgiving, an millions of people are sick to death of seeing this goverment being so anti white,but accepting all an sundry, theres only so much dirt you can fill a hole up with, there should be managed immigration,not the fiasco we have at the moment,
they dont seem to have any problems building houses on green belt land,
food supplies arnt exhaustable,
energy supplies,water,gas,we cant cope properly now, due to foreign ers owning a good deal of our energy suppliers.
so we re overfull now, shall we reclaim our beaches an turn them into building land?? | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 2:56:40 PM |
Your original challenge asked name ten things we wouldn't have if the EU didn't exist.
Yes I did, after reading the absolute unsubstantiated nonsense you wrote in your OP:
I read throught he 'what would you change about the UK' thread and was somewhat surprised to see so much anti EU feelings expressed. Having been interested in the EU and it's development almost every day now for two years I have yet to find anything about the EU that is bad or ill intentioned. There has been many beneficial things done that have improved all our lives and whilst there are obviously things that could and should have been done better or differently, there is little or nothing that works to the detriment of Britain or Ireland that I have come across.
You finally offered to do this, then you seem to have stopped. Can't you think of nine more?
Your answer suggests that you prefer 10 reasons why Britain needs us to actually be a member to get the benefits?. Is that true?, because I wouldn't have taken you up on that one.
Nooooo, I asked YOU to give ten benefits, which you haven't been able to do, despite your claim that the EU has given many beneficial things to us. Don't worry about your failure - I knew that you wouldn't be able to provide ten of these 'many' things!
I would sincerely doubt that the EU would renage on any of it's financial obligations in the many hundreds of developments and investments they have made into our economy.
Eh??
We get £2 back for every £3 we contribute to the EU. How can the EU possibly renege on agreements when it's our money in the first place?
Our trading power outside the EU is about the same as as Afriucan nation of the 70's run by a cannibal dictator
Don't be daft! We do about half our trade with the EU, so that means we do about half our trade outside the EU.
Also, we will STILL trade with the EU once we have left, so the argument is irrelevant.
Then, because we will still be taking all the benefits from the EU without making our rightfull contribution, we would effectively be on the dole and getting EU benefits handouts. getting some more of our contributions back. Ah, well every cloud eh!.
Does anyone out there understand this statement?
@ MSG 72 Thanks for saving me a lot of typing, Stilts! | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 3:02:04 PM |
@ MSG 72 Thanks for saving me a lot of typing, Stilts!
no probs, I am also waiting to hear the ten benefits of being in the EU, especially the democracy one.
and being an economic migrant, am particular interested in the Polish angle, as I am a UK victim of a company closing down a UK branch (several in UK and Europe too) as a direct result of a plant in Poland because its cheaper (note cheaper, not better). | |
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| Why are so many British people so opposed to the EU ?
Posted: 3/31/2009 3:06:11 PM | Hi Stilton,
You'd still like me have ago at those ten things for ya?. Way to go mate, pass me the conche. But look, the hour is late and my pilllow is a calling. Tomorrow or later depending upon the sun, but I'll have a go. But a favour in return please, a bit less of this chopping up of my masterpieces, words that were spoken to me by an Angel and therefore best taken whole for their message rather than the individual parts if you know what I mean. It's what they do with religious books like the Bible, the Tora and the Qu'ran and others. Take an odd word or sentence and built a cyclical belief system around it that usually points the finger at someone who needs killing and choose to ignore the overall message of the books which is of peace andgoodness all that stuff.
So just put it together like we were chatting, I keep up I promise. I'm a magician and a juggler by profession. Cheers. (Sorry, can't see a chracter for getting your head down. Night. | |
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