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| | Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?Page 13 of 14 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14) | Im with mr_brown, I'm totaly clueless for the hints that women put out there. Just cause a woman talks to me don't mean she wants to date me. It's not like men and women don't talk to each other. Had plenty of times when woman friend would walk over to me and ask me why I didn't ask someone out. Which would only get a blank look from me.
Apperently I'm the only one who didnt see the hints. All the women noticed it even some of the guys did. But then they are looking at it from the side. What women don't get is that we are not mind readers.
I thought they are just friendly. Funny thing it happend more then a few times. Now when I hang with the same group I got a couple of women take me under there wing and walk up to me to let me know who to talk to.
In general women and men make about 50-50 . Now I understand that in some areas its diffrent then you got some areas with higher gay population. But it does come out to about 50-50 for most of the time. So for every guy you see single and can't meet a woman to date there is a woman who is single and dont date as well. Guys just complain more about it then women do.
If you are happy with your life and satisfiad, More women would be atrracted to you. The draw back to it is that there is less of reason to put hard work into finding someone when you are already happy.
The other reason why women don't initiate a date with guys could be. That so many women posted that who ever invites out has to pay. They are more then willing to pay if they do the asking. Just maybe they don't want to ask guys out so they don't have to pay. I know its grabing at straws but hey no one can say its not a possibilty | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/9/2012 12:02:52 PM |
I only like approaching girls that i am 100% sure are interested.
This is the answer: your unwillingness to take risk is your problem. The whole "courting system" isn't going to change because you don't want to take risk. If you won't approach a girl who you're not sure is 100% interested, you have to either learn to read the signals a lot better or learn how to not care. However, you can never be 100% sure. Personally, I don't bother with the signals a whole lot. If a girl is being friendly maybe I'll ask her to talk again if I'm interested.
Truth be told, online dating has been really good for me because I've been rejected so many times that I don't really care anymore. I've gotten a few dates as well, but as a man you're going to learn that dating is a numbers game. Approaching more women is the only way to increase your chances of getting more dates. If you're truly happy with yourself, you'll understand that a person you may not even know not being interested is their loss, not yours. | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/9/2012 12:58:35 PM | Brookie wrote:
women in their 40's, 50's and 60's are in COMPETITION with women in their 20's and 30's.
Dude, I'm just curious what did you TALK about in your casual relationship, or is it just possible that this throwaway line was put there to show us what a stud you are that you can have a shallow short term relationship with a woman-child young enough to be your granddaughter. Hmm, I wonder why you quit the relationship.
Hoss, if I want eye candy, I'll buy a copy of fitness mag, cosmo, etc.; lordy, it cheaper and I can set it aside without a twinge of conscience. A lady in the neighborhood of my age who has lived a life of excellence, taken care of herself, produced and contributed has nothing to fear from a woman-child. Good grief, I would like to ask something like do you remember when the orbiter first went up? (I was driving from Kansas in to Colorado) when Challenger came down (I was conducting research in Seattle) when Elvis died (I was on the can -OK, not really, but it is funny). Do they have a memory of the Towers plunging? Or the Miracle on Ice. Are they old enough to known the pleasure of a child growing into a man, or a daughter lost.
Competition from? Doubtful, more like they should be admired and learned from.
TK
[hmm, can't help but think about unshrunk cloth mending old clothes or pouring new wine in to old wineskins; but, that's just me] | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/9/2012 3:55:08 PM | You are so right about this matter.I guess it is unladylike according to the societies standard , may be woman do not like or handle the rejection as well as the guy does.May be woman do not like to lose or do not want to be too aggressive.
It will be nice to be seen that the woman takes some initiaves, respond much better, Or pick up the Tab once in a while.Equal gender is in the book...Movies, and romance novels...In real life who want a man who will take care of everything, every need and every expenses. | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/10/2012 5:21:55 PM | :
I only like approaching girls that i am 100% sure are interested.
Personally, I don't bother with the signals a whole lot. If a girl is being friendly maybe I'll ask her to talk again if I'm interested.
Truth be told, online dating has been really good for me because I've been rejected so many times that I don't really care anymore. I've gotten a few dates as well, but as a man you're going to learn that dating is a numbers game. Approaching more women is the only way to increase your chances of getting more dates. If you're truly happy with yourself, you'll understand that a person you may not even know not being interested is their loss, not yours.
After going through this thread:
Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts15424809.aspx
Most women say the same thing. They don't mind being approached anywhere, as long as they are sending the right body signals to cue you over there to talk to them.
So basically it goes back to this, if the women isn't sending some type of cue to you, its really no point in going over there. I understand your numbers game point, but i like to take my chances where i think i have a shot as opposed to the "brute force"(just talk to every girl you find attractive) technique. | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/11/2012 7:50:49 AM | One woman here said, "If a man can't make the move on a woman how is he ever going to ask for a raise or talk to their boss?"
Well. I disagree. I have a hard time initiating things with a woman. But for some reason I find it easier To ask a boss for a raise. I'm now in a full time position because of my confidence to move up with the company.
Women are totally different. The anxiety that men feel before making a first move with a woman is a lot different than the nervousness we would feel for asking for a raise etc. It's just different.
Me personally I have been blessed a few times to meet some women who were more forward with me. They are great. Unfortunately most of those women were just players. | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/12/2012 12:41:03 AM | I think that something similar to what I wrote in another thread will clarify some of this issue:
Concerning men/women issues, and dating and relationships, the concept of 'old fashioned' as it's used now is false and sometimes even a 'game' in how the term is abused - used incorrectly. The image of old fashioned is something that almost never really existed in the way or to the extent that it's often talked about. What old fashioned really means is when marriages were arranged and forced despite the wishes of the bride and groom. Old fashioned also refers to when men did in fact pay for first dates and almost everything else, hold all the doors open, etc, because women were subordinate, second class citizens, often couldn't have a real job, and was practically obligated to having sex if she let a man take her out.
If a woman is independent and capable in whatever ways and to whatever extents, and speaks of wanting something old fashioned, I'm not sure what this would mean or what she would be talking about, but it's possible that she's confusing romance and romantic gestures with various forms of taking care of and being taken care of.
Otherwise we just still have that problem of the game of double standards and being self defeating in the contradictory nature of what you want and how you look for it. A real man has always wanted a woman who is equal and honest. Thats means that if you want real respect and equality, take what comes with it, and don't hide behind your gender and take advantage of it in the wrong ways. That means stop attracting the men who are doing just the right things to get you but are really the kind that you say you don't want yet you don't want to be able to see this until it's too late. That means if you have a job, don't expect a man to pay for a first date or ridicule him if he doesn't and hide behind an idea of it being the romantic or manly or old fashioned thing to do. That means stop wanting a man to take care of you financially while you take care of him in other ways, yet you expect him to be the kind of guy who'll have respect for you in other ways and treat you a certain way that just doesn't go with that kind of character. That means stop sitting back and demanding that men approach you first just because that obligates him to pay for taking you out because he's the one who asked you out, and claiming that this is a matter of him having confidence, because by doing that you're not looking according to criteria that you might have, but you're only getting the one's who'll ask you out, and that's pretty chancy when if comes to looking for certain character. | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/12/2012 1:21:13 AM | Because American woman 2nd least flirtatious in the world .See proof of study here http://blog.badoo.com/flirtation-study-names-u-s-women-worlds-least-flirtatious-almost-only-ecuadors-women-fl/
This explains why its so easy for men to meet woman when they go overseas. Its nuts! (Ecuador being the excpetion) Any man who has traveled abroad to Latin America or Asia can attest to the craziness of how easy it is to land attractive ladies. All men report how easy it is to get laid when abroad , (outisde of touristy areas that is). In the US woman don’t flirt with you. In the US environment, you have to try extra hard to make anything happen. In other words, the woman do not help you meet them. ANd to make it worse, when a man does try to meet a woman, he is a creep or stalker or predator. SHeesh!
One guy even said "I work in Europe and the US and find that women in the US seem to have an evil glare if you look their way...mind you not all. But in Europe they are upset if you don't comment about the way they look. Maybe that is more of an attraction than anything." | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/12/2012 1:41:58 AM | 334:
Sometimes a woman who thinks that a man approaching her reflects how he is with things like asking a boss for a raise is a messed up woman. This would be an example of how some women are so messed, contradictory, and self defeating in thier thinking and attitudes. And it's an indication of some of the other ways she thinks about men and relationships, if she thinks of herself or the act of a man asking her out in that way. | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/12/2012 2:03:28 AM | This explains why its so easy for men to meet woman when they go overseas. Its nuts! (Ecuador being the excpetion) Any man who has traveled abroad to Latin America or Asia can attest to the craziness of how easy it is to land attractive ladies. All men report how easy it is to get laid when abroad , (outisde of touristy areas that is). In the US woman don’t flirt with you.
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I can do it, but there's no guarantees. Watch what you seek. They can run rings around you if not careful. One false move and they can destroy you, or you can destroy them. Make the wrong move, and you're done. Truth. Best outcome, stalemate. I was lucky; I destroyed her. I wouldn't do it again though. Luck is a one time thing. | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/17/2012 5:22:56 PM |
thats what pisses me off hardcore, men have to have a certain attitude, behave a certain-way, think a certain way, have a certain type of life, certain type of body-language, in order to be boyfriend material, but women, as long as they are average or decent looking, they don't need much other qualities.
Since when? Of course you don't see the men's profiles and the long lists of must haves before they will even consider a woman. It seems to me that you are just a little bitter and awfully young for that. Woman have as many if not more demands/expectations placed on them, including being polite and smiling sweetly when some stranger comes up to her and makes crude comments. Or be the one to approach or will that be too agressive etc.
Life is rough for everyone, time to toughen up and quit whining! | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/17/2012 7:54:46 PM | If I had asked out the last guy I would have missed out on a great guy.. He doesn't like that, and it never would have worked. I have asked guys out twice.. and both times I was stood up. Usually I'm not looking for a guy or noticing them when I'm out.. so if they don't ask me, then nothing will happen. I go out to have fun, not hit on men. If I get hit on I deal with it. If I don't.. I don't notice. I don't usually meet guys that way tho. I usually bump into them in the weirdest places. Although I did meet one at a bar.. and he's great. :~)
And it's a crock that "men just want a good looking woman" If that was the case there'd be no single pretty women. and there are plenty. Perhaps they want to BED that kind of woman.. but to actually BE with one there is a list of "criteria" that will be different with each person. Men are no different then women this way other then the list of attributes will differ.
Sheesh.. men practically want us to be bipolar.. lol Ya know.. be a "lady in the street and a freak in the bed". LOL! oh yes and be independent while worshiping them, smile sweetly, look great in a dress, depend on them but no too much, cook well, be funny, smart, witty and active. Enjoy similar interests to them and be shorter then them.. just to give you an idea of what I've seen on here.. How is that different? | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/17/2012 8:37:21 PM | I have to tell you again and again :-)
When someone is asking for something does not matter where....is the underdog, the salesman. If you do that you have to explain, play the game....while the other side is sucking teeth and using tootpick and have the boots on the table.....like sure keep taking, tell me your story, impress me (= make me laugh). And when you sweat and talk and talk and make your case you hear: I like travelling, I need this, I need that....my kids first.
Sure there may not necesarily be all cases like this...but this is how it works. If there is too much pursuing....leave it. It has to be almost spontaneous....Like: Do you want to go out with me ? Yes sure it would be a pleasure take it and let it roll....OR...Nah not know...let me think...= f.u.c.k it move on. The more you pursuing the more the other will take advantage of you...and will "exersise power" on you. Basically that what seems to be happening....many women look for an idiot with money...good looking if possible....but one who she can model after her needs.
The sad part is if she does not do it....it means she is over 200 lbs. maybe.
If you look at a women a few times and she does not respond DON'T approach. They always shout about "communication" isn't it ? So let them COMMUNICATE them. They are masters of "communication" right ? | |
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pfif
| | Joined: 6/11/2012
Msg: 317 | |
| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/17/2012 11:50:13 PM |
..if a man isn't approaching ya...then he isn't interested...period.
Ah .. yeah. Yep.
There was a woman at work -- she had to have been 15 years older than me.
I knew it was stupid. I knew I'd be rebuffed. I also knew she was flattered,
but not so much interested, personally. Just that she could still get that kind
of draw. This was a while ago. I was about 31 at the time.
Since I can read from a distance, I didn't have to say the words, and hear hers.
It was all subtext, but the messages were exchanged. I have absolutely no doubt
of that. To celebrate it, later, I did say some forward things to her, but with very
specific cues to go with it, to indicate I accepted her decision, but I sure wished it
was the other one, than the one she went with.
This happens fairly often. It's nice, and from then on, nicer still. I was sweet on
her, and I didn't have to hide it from her. There were little smiles and things,
exchanged. I don't know if anyone else there noticed.
I know darn well she did.  | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/18/2012 12:10:23 AM | I have no problem doing the pursuing. However, my pet peeve is women who complain about not meeting the right men, and they even have guys they want to approach, but they don't because it is the guy's "job". You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.
I am a gentleman and I believe in chivalry and treating women well. But sorry ladies. This is the 21st century. Back when women were working crappy babysitting jobs in high school and they did not have equal rights it made more sense for the men to do everything. However, you have equal rights and jobs. It is time to extend equality into dating as well. A few examples. Women love to throw around the whoever plans should pay rule. Yet WOMEN NEVER PLAN DATES. So the guy is always stuck with the bill. Secondly, if a man complains at all that he is planning every date or always picking up the check, he is labeled cheap and lazy. Yet it is women who are trying to avoid spending any money and putting any planning effort in. Seems like the pot calling the kettle black doesn't it? Just last week in the " has dating changed" thread, the OP was actually complaining at having to spend $2 on her own coffee and had the nerve to call the guy cheap. Are you serious?
You know what I did to finally beat the system? I studied up on free and cheap date activities and got creative with my date planning. I scouted locations, I worked on planning them out, etc.. Now for 80% of my dates I spend little to no money and I come off like a creative genius because they are not typical dates. Arguing about how women should take more of an active interest and trying to convince women to plan and pay leads to nothing but tension and always falls on deaf ears. So I finally decided just to circumvent the system and avoid having money becoming an issue in the first place. | |
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pfif
| | Joined: 6/11/2012
Msg: 319 | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/20/2012 1:01:43 PM |
Seriously, why are men held to higher standards than women are?
You think?
Women are the ones who need to stay slim, not eat too much, have big breasts, look great in bikinis, not have mustaches, shave pubic hair, be good housekeeper, be even better with children, be serious career women at the same time, and yet still have the energy to give her man a massage at the end of the day.
See how points of view can be different? I think both men and women are held by the huge standards that society vehiculates as being "models".
When you push people like Johnny Depps or Britney Spears (well not anymore, but you get the idea LOL) as role-models, it gives you an idea of what society tells us we should be. | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/20/2012 1:22:56 PM |
Seriously, why are men held to higher standards than women are?
I don't think it's necessarily that men are held to higher standards, just that men and women are held to different sets of high standards.
Women can't be "sluts" but we should know how to please. We should be "feminine" but must be strong (ie masculine) enough to support ourselves or we're gold diggers.
It's a whole different list of rules than with men, but the rules are still there that we're supposed to abide by. :/ | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/20/2012 1:23:29 PM |
Seriously, why are men held to higher standards than women are?
Does anyone, except yourself actually believe this?
One of the major reasons females MATURE faster than males is because women are held to a higher standard by society in almost everything that they are expected to do.
Guys are expected to initiate the date because only they know if they have enough money to pay for a date and only they know if they are mature enough to handle a relationship with a woman. | |
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| Why does the guy always have to initiate the date and relationship? or at least most of the time?
Posted: 7/21/2012 1:20:35 PM | Guys are expected to initiate the date because only they know if they have enough money to pay for a date
Yuck. I hope I don't ever accidentally go out with a woman whose thinking and motivations are such that this is a big factor in how she thinks about styles or strategies of approaching or flirting.
and only they know if they are mature enough to handle a relationship with a woman.
Not so sure about that. It's easy for them to NOT know...and it's easy for someone else TO know. But beside that point - I'm still too responsible in how I perceive things to feel comfortable with any implication that women intrinsically have cornered the market on maturity. What about whether or not a woman is mature enough to handle a relationship with a man? So it still leaves us with the debate of man vs woman concerning who's supposed to ask who out.
...and also...is someone REALLY being serious about the notion that women are held to higher standards than men, or men more than women, in some general total all around way? Geez, be for real already people. | |
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