| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/2/2009 5:43:51 PM | "The bottom lines of child support are meant to be a guideline for those that grudgingly pay for the children that they had no problem bringing into this world. A caring parent (cp or not) would make sure that their children are being cared for with a decent standard of living."
Yes, but wouldn't that standard of living decline if the parents were still together if one of them last their job.
As another poster has said above, child support only goes up as have rarely, if ever, seen it go down, no matter what the circumstances. You have proven that you can make a certain amount, that is all the courts and the CP is going to care about.
They will invoke that if you salary goes up shouldn't the children share in your new wealth, but if you lose your job then.... well that's your fault... suck it up. | |
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quad24
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Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 27 | |
| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/2/2009 6:05:52 PM | my child is by no means living in poverty or even close to it .
this is useless to discuss this here as no one actually knows the situation at hand. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/2/2009 6:45:10 PM | Hmph. This was useless to discuss as people have very strong opinions regarding children and child support. Asking such a question...well if you had asked me prior to posting I would have told you there would be more negative than positive.
Sadly, there are many men (and women) in your position. Jobs are being lost and there are no other jobs to be had. Depressing, isn't it?
If you are on good terms with your ex, call her and explain the situation and see if you can solve this issue without involvement from the courts. No matter what you do, be it a lawyer or filing papers yourself it will cost money. Maybe she would be willing to help you out an only accept half and you can repay later.
Since you think this loss of income might affect you for a while I suggest that you call and tell her before you file the papers yourself (cheapest route). At this point, all you can do is give what you can without impoverishing yourself in the process because that will not help anyone. If you truly cannot afford it, be prepared to back this up in court with last date of pay, current pay stub, etc. Good luck. I truly hope this doesn't affect your child negatively. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/2/2009 6:47:34 PM | Depending on where you are from, lowering your support payments is something that your ex can't decide. She can fight it but talk to duty counsel and they will advise you.
Remember, while it sucks that you lost your job, when you reduce your suport payment, someone else has to make up the difference. You haven't been able to find a job in 10 months, I have a hard time buying that one. Please don't pee in my ear and tell me it is raining. I just read your profile and you are full of Crap Buddy! No money for support but you brag about going ATV riding and you work 6 months of the year.
You are full of it, grow up! | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/2/2009 10:14:15 PM | | If you're really interested in the well being of your child start to work for the other 6 months of the year so your present loss of income can be compensated with the extra one. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/3/2009 8:55:21 AM | Good luck with that. A judge is going to look at the fact that you seem to be a seasonal worker and tell you to get a job. And if you are registered with Maintenance Enforcement they will laugh. You cannot change the child's standard of living. And if your ex won't budge on the amount then they may be a reason for especially as you say you are on good terms.
Things are slightly improving for the non custodial parent but not by much.
So...my honest wish for you...good luck finding a job and live happily ever after. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/3/2009 9:17:57 AM |
You cannot change the child's standard of living
And what might this have to do with determining child support obligations? That would then suggest that a child who is living with a custodial parent who has remarried and has a high standard of living does not require child support to be paid? | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/3/2009 9:28:58 AM | teal, I think the only way the "standard of living" clause comes into effect (at least in Alberta) is when it comes to Section 7's or "extracurriculars". For example, if the child participated in hockey, or private school, or some other such thing during the marriage, the courts wouldn't necessarily expect that the child should have to lose out on that opportunity due to divorce. All other child support amounts (basic amounts) are based on the table/payer's income.
OP, what you're doing reminds me a little of my eldest Father's actions. I actually "do" receive less, because he hid money from the CRA and ended up in a world of trouble. Because he is being forced to make monthly payments to them for the next 5 years, and also has a stay at home wife with 4 other children, I *agreed* to a lesser amount. Prior to that agreement, he actually opened his own numbered company, and then approached me with "his share" of the income, which was 1/4 of what he actually made. That was his attempt to lower his support payment. (Which hadn't been increased for 8 years prior to that, at my request.)
If you attempt to give your kid the shaft, you can bet that your ex won't be willing to work with you on the amounts when times get tough. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/3/2009 10:46:24 AM | | People complaining that just because he makes less doesn't mean the child needs less, if a married parent loses their job, and has less money, then the child's standard of living will have to drop, why should it be any different if the parents aren't together? If my parents were making 800 a week and suddenly that's 600, well then we needed to change our lifestyle. Maybe move to a cheaper house, maybe in a slightly less nice neighbourhood, maybe eat cheaper food or buy cheaper clothes or not drive as much or not go to the movies as much or eat out less. That's life. If he's making less, he shouldn't have to pay as much, just as he wouldn't if he were married. If the guy is paying 650 a month, and that drops to 550, as long as the mother is working and providing her share too, there's no reason they won't be alright on that. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/3/2009 11:38:39 AM | If my parents were making 800 a week and suddenly that's 600, well then we needed to change our lifestyle. Sorry Bing147 but if my income drops by 25% I'm not going to lower my standard of living......I'm going to go out and get a 2nd job to make up the difference. And if that's not enough then I'll get a 3rd, 4th and whatever it takes to keep the family together. The fact is in your statement it is dealing with a married couple so that my spouse would be able to be at home with the kids while I'm off working extra hours. As a single parent the option of picking up extra hours isn't always an easy equation. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/3/2009 2:42:47 PM | | My understanding you will have to prove in court why you need the payments are reduced. I believe you have to go to family court if your ex is not willing to do negotiate the terms with you again. There is lots of information on government websites about this. You can always ask a lawyer. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/3/2009 5:28:11 PM | Bing, it's not quite as simple as that. "If he makes less, he shouldn't have to pay as much."
It's nice that you have faith in the golden rule, however some people do not, and there have been instances of parents that have deliberately worked lower paying jobs in an attempt to deliberately lower child support. In such cases a judge may make an assumption about what you're capable of making, and enforce that. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/3/2009 6:33:24 PM | All you do is go down to domestic relations and ask for a hearing. They will ask you why and you tell them because of a job change. They will schedule a hearing and then they will adjust the support.
Doug | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/3/2009 6:53:11 PM | | If in fact, the child support payments are 650.00 a week, for ONE kid, does anyone really think the ex is spending it all on the child??? no way in hell, really, what can you possibly spend that much a week on a kid? she must work or there would be Alimony as well.....no doubt she's buying herself some goodies at his expense | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/3/2009 8:17:51 PM | Hi there,
If you have your child support through the DOR ( Department of Revenue) you should be able to get a reduction...I think because of your circumstances...my understanding is that it is a formula....If you aren't connected through DOR - you might want to be....Google it....
I t might help you to avoid paying a lwayer to prove that your income has changed.
I am a divorced mom...I have alot of anxiety about my ex"s income...aas I count on it...but I think there are formulas and frameworks...so it might help both of you to look at the Department of Revenue - website....
Best! | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/4/2009 9:30:04 AM | | Well fun one, that's your choice I suppose, but there's more to life than money. The average person can survive just fine on 600 a week, if its worth working a second job to make up that money then that's your prerogative, but there's a heck of a lot more to life than work and money and a second job is going to give you a lot less time to spend with your family, with your friends, to do the things life is really about. If you can still make do on the lower amount, I see nothing wrong with doing so. The average person lives a fairly luxurious life in our society, all things considered. There aren't many of us who couldn't cut a few things out without missing them that much if need be. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/4/2009 11:07:18 PM | Well you're right Bing, according to the folks at www.leavingthefolks.com which is a website devoted to helping explain true living costs across the US the national average is $600 a week for 1 person. The least expensive state is New Mexico at just over $350 and the most expensive is New York at $1050. Cutting back on luxury items should always be the first step in a family deciding on how to cope with the loss of 25% of their income as you first suggested. You are correct, time with my family is more important than getting a second job to pay for movie channels on the TV but if it means having to work 60, 80 or 100 hours a week so I have enough money to put food on the table, pay my mortgage and every other bill then yeah, that's what I will choose to do. I'm the one who has to go out and find the new job because they closed the office and I'm the one that has to figure out how to pay the $1500 repair bill for the car so I can go out and get the new job and I'm the one who has to budget the household finances and squeeze every penny so not only can we eat dinner but that the kids can play on their school sport teams for one more season. If I have to get a little less sleep every night because I have to pick up an extra job then yeah, I'll do it.
What most people on this thread were commenting on however was the OP's question on reducing his obligation to support when in his own profile he proudly states that he only works 6 months out of the year. From Tealwood's comment msg:17
$69,500 to $69,599 for one child in British Columbia. is $650 that equates to about $11,600 per month for the 6 months he works. With his new job he said he is bringing home about $10,000 less......assuming he means annually......then how is it someone who historically makes over $11K per month for 6 months can't find a part time job to make up the remaining $10K total during the next 6 months? He could accomplish that with a $10 an hour job. It sounds to me that the luxury item here is his 6 months of vacation every year. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/4/2009 11:52:54 PM | The only way you can get support payments reduced in court is to make an application to have the support payments reduced. Without the application the current order requiring child support is standing. It is an order.
Now if an applicant has the child in his or her care for more than 40 percent of the time during the year, then the support payments are based on the combined incomes, with the lower income earning parent receiving some support payments. For example, if one parent earns 50 thousand and the other parent earns 40 thousand, then the parent earning 50 will pay the child support based on the difference which is only 10 thousand, or roughly about 100 per month per child.
The tragic and in my opinion sick part of the guidelines is that if you have custody or access of the child for 39 percent of the time or less, then you will pay the full amount of the child guideline amount. This is not the case in all countries: for instance in Sweden 80% of all children living with separated parents enjoy the 'joint custody' of both parents, so the issue of child support is not a real issue in Sweden. Also due to high levels of employment and a 'garanteed income' in Sweden, support payments are not as high as in Canada. Just imagine a payor in Canada making 60 k a year, and having to pay support for 5 kids. That support amount would be close to 50% of the payors gross income, and since child support is not tax deductable, the payor making 60K per year, would be paying around 30 percent more in taxes, leaving the payor after taxes and child support payments about $12,000 per year net income. How does anyone who is working live off of $1000 per month?
If a payor of support loses his or her job and cannot longer make the same income as was used by the court during the time the current order was made, then the payor can apply to have the support payments reduced. This happens frequently. The payor though will be expected to still earn some income (it depends on the situation). For instance a trucker who quit his job in northern BC, so he could be with his kids in southern BC, and therefore not be earning as much as before, the courts would simply impute his income at the previous level he was making while he was employed, even though his intentions were noble enough.
If a payor has lost his or her job and cannot find the same income earning job, then it is up to the payor to make an application in court to have the payments reduced. The date of the application is the 'effective date' therefor of when the new order would take effect.
So if the payor made an application immediately after he or she lost their job, then that application would be heard at a later date, and thus be for a new order commencing from the date of the application, but not the date of the hearing.
But be fore-warned. Even if a payor loses his or her job due to economic closure of the jobsite, the fact is that the courts will impute a payor's income based on their education and experience, even if they say that cannot find work. The only justification for not imputing income by the courts is where the payor can provide a ton of evidence that the payor cannot find any work and show that they have made hundreds of applications with companies to find work. Currently even if a CEO loses his or her job, the courts will not be satisfied that the recently laid off CEO cannot take a jog working in some other area like the service sector [Tim Hortons, or what ever].
The only other justification for reducing or stopping payments is: "sickness or injury" which so debilitates that no income can be earned; old age and infirmity [even then support payments would be based on retirement incomes]; and possibly, in some cases, the need to re-educate and re-train....I have seen judges reduced support payments of fathers who showed in court that they were in university, and could not earn a large income due to their needs to find future employment through getting educated.
But beware of getting the payments reduced whilst in university, especially since that if you are successful, the fact is that once you get your degree and professional licences, you your income will be imputed at a much much higher level. One father quit his job with the Ministry of Environment to pursue a law degree. He was successful in reducing his payments during his education, but after graduation as a lawyer his income was imputed at around $100,000, and he instead took a low paying job...and essentially screwed himself financially.
The final alternative is to move to Ireland. If you move there, then the courts here and the government have no jurisdiction to enforce payments. I think also most South American countries also are out of jurisdiction, but the US and the UK are not out of jurisdiction.
The best alternative is to get at least 40 percent custody or access.....the law regarding support payments in Canada is deep troubling and tragic, since there is no consideration given to parents who for one reason or another cannot get at least 40 percent custody and access of their kids, and many sick examples come to the fore. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/6/2009 4:04:44 PM |
I think i will call my lawyer to get his opinion
You don't really need his opinion, you just might want to check with him to make sure you're properly filing the documents. 10 months is plenty of time to establish a pattern of income. Your income tax return and your 3 most recent pay stubs will be able to resolve that, and then your support payments will be adjusted according to your present income. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/6/2009 4:55:09 PM | | Oh that statement pisses me off!!!!!! I'm a single mom. I work more then 1 job to provide for my family. When my ex was making $30/hr he did not put any money aside while things were getting set up with FRO. When I asked for some help with things the kids needed, he stated that's what child supports for. I said I'm not getting any and he said that's what you wanted isn't it. Well I made it through, my kids got what they needed. He's now in arrears and wanting to get it lowered because he too is out of a job. Do I feel sorry for him - no. When he should've been helping support his kids, he was out living the life of reilly while I worked my butt off. It sucks to be him. The kids shouldn't suffer because he wanted to be an ass. | |
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| how to get child support payments lowered?
Posted: 4/6/2009 6:03:27 PM | | well, gifts dont count as support. you need to call your local office and give them your current income and tell them you need an adjustment, they can only take so much out of your pay. | |
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