|
|
|
|
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:39:22 PM | | who would pay for a 1500 dollar seat?? Thats just not real in this economy. That's just greed. Just you saying your a redsox fan is reason enough to stop this. They spend money on their players also. A cap would not produce a level playing field it would produce bullshit baseball. I subscribe to the yes network so I will see a game regardless. you spell tomato i spell tomatoe. Let's hope this stays civil. Did we rally need Florida, Tampa Bay, arizona, colorado. These teams haven't been around 20 years and have a few rings. | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:12:28 PM | | thats my point, its not real to exspect other teams spend that kinda money. you say who can pay 1500 a seat, well thats the same agrument that smallmarkets make when they ( yankees) offer sabaitha 150 mil or what ever it was. along with the other free agents they sing year after year. i dont think it would produce bullshit baseball, look at the nfl, i know that people say that has parity, and it does, but to me that a level playing feild, also just topoint out the fact the nfl has a higher % of teams with a .500 record or better then mlb does( thats going on last years nfl records, i thought it would b better to do it that since thats a full season). u r right the sox do spend money on there players, about 80 mil less a year, thats insane that more then most teams spend on there payroll. even as a sox fan i accept the fact that we need a cap, yes it does help us also to b able to out spend teams, iam still in favor of a cap. and if u asked me what the cap number would b i would say about 120 mil or maybe a little less/more.with that being said i dont think teams should be handicapped if they want to win but it should atleast be somewhat close. and i have no problem with those to mention being baseball, all of them have been to the w.s. and 2 of them have won it, the only problem with those teams they cant compete year in/year out because there players become free agents and guess who signs them? last point, we will keep this civil, its just a baseball debate. | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:10:50 PM | | Maybe because I'm a yankee fan I wont consider the othe side of the coin. I know revenue sharing wouuld be out of the question. I guess the other teams are a community college and we are Harvard and Yale. The system could be fixed. I just appreciate the fact that an owner spends to keep his product viable. Even when we win we lose. Devils advocate, who will Boston go out and sign they need a slugger. | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/7/2009 6:50:34 AM |
look at the nfl, i know that people say that has parity, and it does, but to me that a level playing feild, also just topoint out the fact the nfl has a higher % of teams with a .500 record or better then mlb does
its amazing that some pple are so brainwashed into thinking that the NFL has a more perfect system...but i credit the NFL wizards for pulling off 1 of the biggest illusions in pro-sports!
The reality is that salary cap system is deeply flawed!....look at the Lions, Chiefs, Browns (to name a few)...these teams are at cap limits...and look at their records,now how can Detroit hope to make any major improvements?....they'd have to wait for players contracts to expire (or eat them)...even the Gmen, who spent a great deal of money on Eli's new contract, what would happen if he got hurt and couldn't play?...thy'd have to rely on the 2nd stringer, or eventually they'd need to get rid of another big name player to balance their account...and this is what the hallmark of the NFL game is about....playing a salary "shell" game!...its a BS system which was made to create parity, teams at or over .500 is nothing but a crafted illusion, much like any socialist system was made to create a 1 class society.
look at the TV rating and you'll see that this WS was the most watched since the 2004 Bsx..the reason is that the Yanks were in it!......this draws both Yankee lovers and Yankee haters alike!....as good as the Phils were (and they are a dam good team) nobody gives a dead rats azz about them (except their own fans)...the proof is in last years playoffs when the played the rays in 1 of the lowest rated WS on record!
The REAL remedy to improve competition in MLB is for the owners to start spending the luxury tax money (they receive every year form the top 5 teams) on QUALITY players instead of buying themselves another yacht!!!! or another mansion in their game of 1 upsmanship!.....the fact is that the Steins care highly about having a good quality team on the field.....they didn't have to go and spend money to get AJ, CC, Tex, they could have just as well (minus the playoffs)financially...but they want quality!
Thats why when the Yanks go to visiting ball parks, they draw a full crowd (wait till next season and you'll see!) whether to cheer them or boo them!!! | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:37:17 AM | | ^^^ well for every browns, cheifs and lions there are the colts, steelers and patriots. how can the lions make any major inprovements, how about drafting better, theres a idea. how many first round picks did they take on a w.r, and only one of them have worked out. to make my point i will use the colts, one of the best teams in the nfl. ok manning, wayne, harrison, freney, sanders and addai, all of these players where first round draft picks and all of them are pro bowlers, do u really wonder why the colts are a good team and the lions are not. of course the ratings where high, when a team from the largest city in america is in what do u think will happen? to b honest i dont care what the ratings are, i dont work for the network that carried the w.s. so i didnt beneifit and unless u work for them i fail to see how it help u either. take the spurs for example, great team right? well there ratings where not good when they went on there run of championships, so does that mean there not a good team? to me a .500 team is avg, the nfl has more avg/or above teams then mlb, so how is that a crafted illusion? you say the yanks draw fans at other ballparks, well so do the steelers and they have a cap. last thing about the ratings, the nfl has outstanding ratings with a cap, oh wait i guess thats because every nfl fan is brainwashed. about the eli point and having to use a back up, just keep in mind if bledsoe doesnt get hurt there may not be a tom brady today, again it goes back to drafting well,i know this doesnt happen alot but it does happen and there have been other teams that have done well with a back up qb redskins , bills and eagles come to my mind, i think u get the point iam making. one more thing any time any team wins a championship there number of fans go up, thats called jumping the bandwagon. | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:29:01 AM |
how can Detroit hope to make any major improvements?.
this has nothing to do with the salary cap. It has do with drafting. Its no secret that Matt Millen ran the lions drafts and set the franchise back 5-10 years. If the yankees have a first round draft pick that is a bust, its not a big deal cause they can just go out in free agency and remedy the problem.
I dont blame the yankees, nor do I hate the yankees. I blame baseball and the owners who claim they are "broke". IM a rockies fan, and there is no reason why the Monforts can go out and spend money like the yankees. Im not saying 200 million, cause the YES network is a cash cow. The rockies could be the phillies, about 110-130 million just to compete every year.
It doesnt take a genious to go out and sign sabaithia and tex. Proven players. It does take some smarts to draft well EVERY year . Look at the steelers, that team hits the lottery every year drafting, the pats come to mind also. The pats dont even like first rounders, they take second rounders because they think they get the same talent and dont have to pay them. That is arrogant, but good..have to respect it. | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:09:08 AM | | Thats a good observation about the PATS. When you think about it late rounders and free agent rookies dominate the NFL lately. Hardwork not hype. Just look at your Broncos who would of thought. | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:26:30 PM |
how about drafting better, theres a idea
and you think that is so easy?........Its not so easy for most teams to put together a technical staff sharp enuff to pick out all the promising players...the Colts and even the pats have had good luck in the draft, but it is still a crap-shoot!...how many heisman QB's make it big in the NFL?.........and even if you get a group of good players you still have to end up paying top money in salary...and that is where the head hits the ceiling...why should teams be forced to relinquish a player cause the cap limit was reached?
when a team from the largest city in america is in what do u think will happen?
well, i didn't know that Indianapolis was 1 of the largest cities in the US...that must explain the big rating that the colts get, right!...........how large a city is has little to do with a team's individual success....look at the Braves of the 90's when TedTurner owned them...he made them into a money making machine...a team from a middle market city that drew high rating everywhere they went.....and with what payroll????
to b honest i dont care what the ratings are, i dont work for the network that carried the w.s. so i didnt beneifit and unless u work for them i fail to see how it help u either.
ratings = $$$, for the sponsors, the network, and the cities involved.......when you have a team that creates interest/following, you create a cash flow for your team....and if the owners are smart, they'll put most of the money back into the team.
take the spurs for example, great team right? well there ratings where not good when they went on there run of championships, so does that mean there not a good team?
see above explanation
to me a .500 team is avg, the nfl has more avg/or above teams then mlb, so how is that a crafted illusion? you say the yanks draw fans at other ballparks, well so do the steelers and they have a cap. last thing about the ratings, the nfl has outstanding ratings with a cap, oh wait i guess thats because every nfl fan is brainwashed.
you are getting confused........let me say this, in the PAST 20 YEARS, there have been 14 different teams winning the WS in MLB....In 20 yrs, the NBA only had 8 different teams.......and The NFL, has had 10 different teams win the SB..even if you adjust it by percentage of teams, the ratio is still better for MLB......the NBA & NFL have salary caps, and in general, the top half (in both sports) are still the same teams, and the bottom 1/2 are still the ones that haven't won anything.....In short, the salary caps hasn't LEVELED ANYTHING...it is the crafting of parity that produces that illusion!!!!.....The Lakers and the Clippers have had nearly the same payroll, but the Lakers were always the winners and the Clippers always stunk, and they are both in the same market!!!!...why is that???......It is the management is MAKES THE DIFFERENCE, not the payroll......the salary cap forces a distribution of talent, thus the reason for a higher number of mediocre teams (playing at about .500) which has served as a shield for poor management...thus if you were to lift the salary cap, the first thing you'd expose is how BAD the management/ownership is in many of these middle of the road teams!!!!....therefore, a salary cap will only break what doesn't need to be fixed.....A team like the Pirates is a good example on how bad the ownership is...in a town like Pittsbugh, which is a great sports market, the pirates have sucked for 20yrs or so...with a salary cap in place, they will still suck cause its their management letting all their top young Drafts go (J Bay, Damaso Marte, etc) because they don't wanna pay them.
if bledsoe doesnt get hurt there may not be a tom brady today, again it goes back to drafting well,i know this doesnt happen alot but it does happen and there have been other teams that have done well
being able to draft well is an art not easily mastered by all...see above explanations!
***********************************************************
At Bronc
If the yankees have a first round draft pick that is a bust, its not a big deal cause they can just go out in free agency and remedy the problem.
not necessarily true.........the Yanks have made many free agent acquisitions to fill gaps and most have not panned out as planned.........it is just as difficult to pick the right free agent than it is to pick the right draftee................even other teams,look at SF, paying Barry Zito all that money, and he didn't measure up!
I blame baseball and the owners who claim they are "broke". IM a rockies fan, and there is no reason why the Monforts can go out and spend money like the yankees. Im not saying 200 million, cause the YES network is a cash cow. The rockies could be the phillies, about 110-130 million just to compete every year.
Right!....the owners are far from broke....look at teams like the Pirates and Padres.......why would an owner stay in a business where he's losing that much money for 20+ yrs?...a Salary cap will NOT force owners to spend their revenues!
It doesnt take a genious to go out and sign sabaithia and tex.
Believe me, it isn't as easy as it looks...if it was that easy the Yanks would be winning the WS nearly every year!!!!........the uncertainties are bigger when you go after established free agents then it is with rookies.....and the risks are greater, because there is more money at stake.........a rookie's future is brighter, he can only get better with time, not always the case with a veteran!............there is an 'art' to going after free agents, almost as much as it is with drafting! | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/9/2009 9:02:44 AM | and you think that is so easy?........Its not so easy for most teams to put together a technical staff sharp enuff to pick out all the promising players...the Colts and even the pats have had good luck in the draft, but it is still a crap-shoot!...how many heisman QB's make it big in the NFL?.........and even if you get a group of good players you still have to end up paying top money in salary...and that is where the head hits the ceiling...why should teams be forced to relinquish a player cause the cap limit was reached?
no i dont think its that easy but thats what seperates the good teams from the not good teams. about the heisman, its a college award not a nfl award, so if u pick a player based on hype and not how that player fits there system then that team is making a big mistake, again the difference between a good org and a not so good org. if it makes u fell better to say they are lucky then so be it,just keep this in mind the colts have 3 high round drafts picks out right now ( gonzalez, sanders, and jackson) but yet they are 8-0, what a lucky team i guess.ya right,lol. u asked why should ateam have to relinquish a player when the cap has been reached, thats the point of a cap, its forces teams to handle the way they spend money and who they give it to, if a team spends alot of money on a first rround player and he is a bust, it puts the team behind the 8ball you are right, again thats what seperates good teams from not so good teams. look i understand the fact that as a yankees fan you dont want a cap, i think we both know that the yankees g.m is the most overrated in all of sports, i mean the guy spends more then anybody else but yet has only won 1 championship is the last 9 or 10 years, just imagine if he could only spend 100mil a year or 120 mil a year, the yanks would be just a avg. team, that goes to show that they are not that well ran as a org. i know u think that makes your case about pairity but the fact is it just shows the adavntages they have being able to go out and spend more then other teams. iam not saying that money and only money buys championships, what iam saying is the money the yanks spend keeps other teams from being able to get star free agents. | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/9/2009 1:05:13 PM | The Lakers and the Clippers have had nearly the same payroll, but the Lakers were always the winners and the Clippers always stunk, and they are both in the same market!!!!...why is that???......It is the management is MAKES THE DIFFERENCE, not the payroll......the salary cap forces a distribution of talent, thus the reason for a higher number of mediocre teams (playing at about .500) which has served as a shield for poor management
this is right in the aspect that u are dealing with a sport that has a cap, its the management that matters the most. the knicks and the clippers spend alot of money on the wrong players, thats why they stink. but ur point doesnt really make alot of sense because nobody spends about what the yankees spend therefore in there case its about the money not the management. i see it the other way, if u put a cap in baseball that would shed light on poor management as well. again there is not a higher % of teams in the nfl playing at or above .500 then there is in mlb, the fact that there has been more w.s. winners in the last 20 years doesnt prove that, only 1 team wins it all, if u want to talk about parity u need to keep all the teams in the leagues involed in the conversation not just the top team.also i dont know this to b true but if u go back and look at those baseball teams that have won the w.s. over that time spand i would think alot of them where in the top % of payroll, for example the back to back years the bluejays won they had the top payroll, so again its the money not the management and even then there was alot less of a gap between there payroll and the next team then there is now | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/10/2009 11:38:01 PM |
no i dont think its that easy but thats what seperates the good teams from the not good teams.
In salary capped sports, the ability to draft well is what separates the top-notch teams from the outright awful teams.......the midrange teams are the ones that get the most benefit in that they can pick-up the overflow that would help or maintain their mid-table standings.....which is what the NFL ultimately wants....parity!!!
about the heisman, its a college award not a nfl award, so if u pick a player based on hype and not how that player fits there system then that team is making a big mistake, again the difference between a good org and a not so good org.
the HT is used as a benchmark of high achievement for college QB's and the top candidates have usually been selected high in the draft....if you wanna call that a form of hype, i'd agree but its what most experts go by!.....i don't make the standards!
if it makes u fell better to say they are lucky then so be it,just keep this in mind the colts have 3 high round drafts picks out right now ( gonzalez, sanders, and jackson) but yet they are 8-0, what a lucky team i guess.
teams that don't usually get high draft picks have to use other means of getting top picks...and that is what i'm talking about when i say that the management makes a difference..it isn't often easy to trade one of your aging but most accomplished players in order to have better leverage in the draft, but some teams are better at it than others....... its a way of unloading some of their highest paid players in order to stay well within the cap...........and this isn't something that most teams can do well, ....many teams use this as a way of balancing their payroll books, a few teams however have not only used to balance their books but to actually siphon talent from lesser teams in exchange for aging players.......its basically a shell game in which you have a few true beneficiaries.
u asked why should a team have to relinquish a player when the cap has been reached, thats the point of a cap, its forces teams to handle the way they spend money and who they give it to,
correct, it forces a team to give up someone who, (in the absence of a cap) they would probably have kept if they could.....so that player must be doled out to some other team whose cap is smaller...but not necessarily a weaker team!!!!...so you have a sitituation where (at best) 1 of your top players may have to leave to a lesser team, or at worst, when that player is picked up by a superior team....this is a good example of player- stacking if there ever was one!!!!
if a team spends alot of money on a first rround player and he is a bust, it puts the team behind the 8ball you are right, again thats what seperates good teams from not so good teams.
this can happen whether or not you have a cap...but since a draftee can go bust in anybody's hands, i'd say its more a matter of bad luck than anything else!
look i understand the fact that as a yankees fan you dont want a cap, i think we both know that the yankees g.m is the most overrated in all of sports, i mean the guy spends more then anybody else but yet has only won 1 championship is the last 9 or 10 years,
which is more proof that spending doesn't consistently buy championships therefore why the need for a cap?
just imagine if he could only spend 100mil a year or 120 mil a year, the yanks would be just a avg. team, that goes to show that they are not that well ran as a org.
not so, if the yanks were limited to this much, most of the other teams would reduce spending even more cause if not they would lose out big time on penalty money, revenue shares.....lesser teams would have a helluva more to lose than the Yanks if a cap were put in place.........which is why MOST owners don't want caps!.........Yanks wouldn't be avg., they'd still be the ones offering the best pay in a contracted market!.....you are making the false assumption that if MLB, would cap spending at 120 Mil,...all of a sudden more teams would be on the same level but in reality, you'd see the pattern as you have now just on a lesser scale!
what iam saying is the money the yanks spend keeps other teams from being able to get star free agents.
this is pure BS!!!!....you talk as if the Yanks strong arm all other teams...they don't!...do you know who the richest owners in MLB are?...its not the Yanks, try the Twins and the Tigers' owners, and these owners can spend every little bit (if not more) than the yanks can!...and there are others on par with the yanks.......no one prevents a team from going after players, the yanks do it cause they want to do it...and they don't intimidate anyone else either.
right in the aspect that u are dealing with a sport that has a cap, its the management that matters the most. the knicks and the clippers spend alot of money on the wrong players, thats why they stink. but ur point doesnt really make alot of sense because nobody spends about what the yankees spend therefore in there case its about the money not the management.
Correctly picking top free agents takes just as much ability as it does to get top draft picks!....you admitted yourself that the knicks and clippers have high payrolls but little to show for it..............the yanks have had the highest payroll since 2000 to 2009 and have only won 2 WS.........so regardless if you have a cap or not, its still the management that makes the difference!.....in the NBA, for teams like the knicks, clippers..it would be very difficult to reverse their luck because of the ceiling that keeps them locked in...the only way for them to break out is "eat" all (or some) of the bad contracts. the knicks have had a history of doing just that!...there many ex-knicks playing for other teams that still get part of their salary from MSG (knicks owners).....so in this case, all a salary cap is doing is: a)preventing teams of higher means to break out of their rut, b) continue being a source of corporate welfare to other mostly lower teams...which in turn produces:A} the illusion of parity thru mediocrity: B} lack of motivation for owners of so-called avg teams!
i see it the other way, if u put a cap in baseball that would shed light on poor management as well.
you are wrong, a cap would serve to further conceal teams with poor management as they will get the windfall benefit of getting the kind of players that they would not ordinarily pursue (or hold on to)....in order to uplift the team at or near a .500 performance,( which is something they'd never see if they were forced to get a player at the free-market value)....this is the strategy often used to "craft' parity!
also i dont know this to b true but if u go back and look at those baseball teams that have won the w.s. over that time spand i would think alot of them where in the top % of payroll, for example the back to back years the bluejays won they had the top payroll, so again its the money not the management
wrong again, cause neither the D-backs or the marlins had anywhere near the highest payroll when they won...and i'm just naming 2 teams!. | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/11/2009 1:58:21 AM | this has nothing to do with the salary cap. It has do with drafting. Its no secret that Matt Millen ran the lions drafts and set the franchise back 5-10 years
Yep, that's one thing the salary cap in the NFL can't prevent is bad management. Cleveland, KC, Detroit are all bad because of their team mismanagement. Matter of fact it's gotten soo bad in Cleveland that they just fired their GM and the owner picked out two loyal random Browns fans and asked them to give the owner some idea's on how to improve the team. Yes that's how bad it's gotten in Cleveland when the owner has to go out and ask the fans what they can do to improve the team. | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/11/2009 6:28:46 AM | the HT is used as a benchmark of high achievement for college QB's and the top candidates have usually been selected high in the draft....if you wanna call that a form of hype, i'd agree but its what most experts go by!.....i don't make the standards!
i guess that depends on how define " usually" ,since 93 there have been 10 qbs to win the heisman. there has only been 2 taken in the first round( palmer and leinart) thats it just 2 of them , also that includes leinart who didnt even win the heisman the year he was drafted and there is 1 winner that wasnt even drafted at all( ward), so a little confused on these standards you think the xperts go by. to be fair 2 of the 10 winners are still in school( bradford and tebow) but i doubt tebow will be a high pick as a qb. i make this point to show the fact of how the heisman shouldnt be used a tool in the nfl, because the most important thing is the org that player is going to and the players that we will have around him and nothing to dowith the heisman. and i know you said canidates, but the heisman goes to the "best player " in college football. ok back to the cap thing, u say that the d-backs didnt have a big payroll, well they where 8th in baseball but they where 3rd in the nl, so they did spend more then 80% of there league. also the difference between them and the highest payroll in the n.l. was just 2 mil. thats it. and in 1997 the marlins where 5th in payroll again i would say thats pretty much at the top, but u can make other cases for differnt teams in the last 20 years or so. the bottomline is that the yankees dont outsmart any team they just out spend them, my point is still its not the management its the money. i never said that money buys u championship on a reg. basis, but what it does is make every other team that cant spend that type of money weaker. and this talk of parity, u dont make sense, u speak of the nfl as if its just a bunch of ok players and thats why its full of parity, they are great players thats why they are in the nfl, the nfl talent level is just as high as the mlb level. you keep saying they " craft parity" look the yanks won 103 games and royals lost 103 games( i dont think those numbers are, but u get my point) ok so u will always have teams at the ends of the sprecturm, the same way the colts can go 13-3 and the browns go 3-13, u have this every sport, so if u take out the best and the worst teams, u are left with whats in the middle and in both sports its a bunch of avg. teams. football has parity because it has leveled the playing feild, the mlb has parity because the playing feild is not level. i just always wonder how much better the avg teams would be if they could sign big name free agents, or better yet if they could just keep there own stars and not be outbid by the same 4 or 5 teams that can afford to spend what ever they want. sure sometime in football u will b out bid, but it wont be because they have a limitless payroll. maybe iam wrong maybe iam not, but then again the nfl is the most popular sport these days, maybe they did get it right. last point, u said"a cap would serve to further conceal teams with poor management" u rwrong a cap exposes poor mangament, just stay with the colts/browns theme, the colts payroll this year is
$111,295,962( and this includes harrison, so it may be lower) and the browns payroll is $119,946,192 and they suck, again this is why drafting is so important and it also shows that the choices that the gm's make a direct effect on the team, thats the point of the cap to level the playing feild, if u make alot of bad choices it will effect ur team, in the nfl u cant make bad choices and just spend more money to get rid of the problems. | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/12/2009 9:46:09 AM |
ok back to the cap thing, u say that the d-backs didnt have a big payroll, well they where 8th in baseball but they where 3rd in the nl, so they did spend more then 80% of there league. also the difference between them and the highest payroll in the n.l. was just 2 mil.
2 million?.....so then it proves that it is more management than spending that makes a team successful.
the bottomline is that the yankees dont outsmart any team they just out spend them, my point is still its not the management its the money.
you have contradicted yourself over and over by your own examples.....the yanks have been outspending teams by wide margins and they've come up short most of the time..........so out spending doesn't buy championships, its been proven....if that were true then the top NFL spending teams would be considered favarotes for the SB!
i never said that money buys u championship on a reg. basis, but what it does is make every other team that cant spend that type of money weaker.
not true...how does it make wealthy owners like the Twins weaker....they could spend way more if they wanted to regardless of what the Yanks do......this might affect teams with low budgets if they lose a player by free- agency, but that is usually becuase they are not intersted in keeping big money players...look at pittsburgh pirates!...they've been dead last (and happy) in their division and still thrive.
and this talk of parity, u dont make sense, u speak of the nfl as if its just a bunch of ok players and thats why its full of parity, they are great players thats why they are in the nfl,
read well!...i've never said anything about the players themselves, although anybody could look good in comparison to a whole bunch of players who are mediocre.....it becomes easy for a RB/QB to rush/pass for many yards if the opposing defenses are relatively weak...but what i mainly mean by parity is that the talent is more widely disperse in the NFL, by way of salary caps.....which doesn't necessarily translate into higher quality....its just an NFL shell game!
the nfl talent level is just as high as the mlb level.
you are dead wrong here...talent in MLB comes from all over the world...we can be sure that MLB has nearly the best talent available!
you keep saying they " craft parity" look the yanks won 103 games and royals lost 103 games( i dont think those numbers are, but u get my point) ok so u will always have teams at the ends of the sprecturm, the same way the colts can go 13-3 and the browns go 3-13, u have this every sport, so if u take out the best and the worst teams, u are left with whats in the middle and in both sports its a bunch of avg. teams.
then what the hell is the ultimate point to having a salary cap?.....i already explained to you that there were more WS winners in the past 20 yrs then there were SB winners...you wanna give more breaks to cheap-skate owners?...whats the point if they still mismanage the team, .....they'll still come in last or do poorly!
football has parity because it has leveled the playing feild, the mlb has parity because the playing feild is not level.
What???...the whole point to trying to level the field is to get parity...in the NFL, its done artificially.....in MLB, you don't have articial parity, because free market forces are in effect...in some division you have "natural" parity such as we see in the ALE, as there has been close contests between the Yanks, Bsx, and BJ's.
i just always wonder how much better the avg teams would be if they could sign big name free agents, or better yet if they could just keep there own stars and not be outbid by the same 4 or 5 teams that can afford to spend what ever they want.
well go look at the SF giants...no body outbid them when they signed Barry Zito...as far as teams keeping their own stars, well why don't you ask the management of the A's and pirates why they let all their young talent go free.
sure sometime in football u will b out bid, but it wont be because they have a limitless payroll. maybe iam wrong maybe iam not, but then again the nfl is the most popular sport these days, maybe they did get it right.
NFL is popular because of marketing tools, not because of salary caps.
last point, u said"a cap would serve to further conceal teams with poor management" u rwrong a cap exposes poor mangament, just stay with the colts/browns theme, the colts payroll this year is $111,295,962( and this includes harrison, so it may be lower) and the browns payroll is $119,946,192 and they suck, again this is why drafting is so important and it also shows that the choices that the gm's make a direct effect on the team, thats the point of the cap to level the playing feild, if u make alot of bad choices it will effect ur team, bad choices are made by management, but salary caps can trap such teams into a state of failure for a long time...yet there are many teams who know how to work the system better and manage to stay competative because they've made the salary cap work in their favor....teams who've made bad decisons suffer the most and have less opportunities to get back up whereas in MLB, a team can start spending more to acquire better players and if they make smart acquisitions they can get back up! in the nfl u cant make bad choices and just spend more money to get rid of the problems. exactly, which is why in MLB...the bad teams are the ones in which the owners don wanna spend much, whereas in NFL....if you've made bad choices in the past, the "system" penalizes you even further!!!!!!.....and you can't correct this even if you changed the management to more competent people...why would they wanna join a team that they can't do much to help! ------------------------------------------------------ In short, i fee l salary caps are an unnatural way to contain costs....i feel the free-market method is always superior...the only problem with MLB, is that they should penalize cheap owners for not putting their profits back into the team! | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/12/2009 12:47:43 PM | bad choices are made by management, but salary caps can trap such teams into a state of failure for a long time...yet there are many teams who know how to work the system better and manage to stay competative because they've made the salary cap work in their favor....teams who've made bad decisons suffer the most and have less opportunities to get back up whereas in MLB, a team can start spending more to acquire better players and if they make smart acquisitions they can get back up
again ur night right on this, look in the nfl the only money a play def. gets in his singing bonus, thats its. so a team can cut that player at any time. its a sink or swim type deal in the nfl. so the nfl is only number one because of marketing, well people need to like the product that is being markted. the fact is the more cities u have with a chance for the playoffs late in the year means the bigger the fan base, oh wait well i guess that happens because of the parity that the nfl has, and like u said the salary cap causes parity, so i guess it is because of the cap. ur right mlb does have the best players in the world, atleast the ones we know of, but are u telling me that the nfl doesnt have the best football players in the world? look i get it we are just going to disagree on the cap thing, u think its about management more then the money, but yet u dont want the choices the management makes to cost the team, where i like the nfl because the managment is hold accountable for there choices in the sense that the teams has to pay, now to me thats more about the management then money.its just odd that your soultion to mang. making bad choices is to spend more money and then turn around and say its about management and not money, its just odd. now i agree with you about its the mang. with teams that dont spend 130mil or more a year, but not at the top of mlb, its about money up there. thats why i say the sox and yanks have the 2 most over rated gms in sports | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/12/2009 1:16:56 PM |
You want to fix baseball get rid of 4-6 teams and you will have a better pitching pool.
I actually kind of agree with the notion of getting rid of some of the cellar dwelling teams but not for the purposes of freeing up any talent. More for the fact that it seems pointless to have teams in the league that seem to have no interest in really contending year in and year out. It's one thing to go through a rough spot, but you've got teams like the Pirates that haven't been good in 20 years. And it's not like they haven't had some good players come through their system either. They just get rid of all of them. They're becoming a farm team for other teams. What is the purpose of having a team like this around other than just somebody to kick around so you don't have to finish last if you're having a bad season? | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/12/2009 1:28:29 PM | | would a team like the a's b one of the teams u would get rid of? the way is see it is fans would come watch the teams play iff they where atleast ok, so the only way to level the feild is a cap, so a select handfull of team cant just outspend the other. now that would mean the players would make less but atleast the super stars would be more evenly spread out, or get rid of some teams, but what teams would they b i think is a good question, any ideas? | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/12/2009 7:43:22 PM |
so the nfl is only number one because of marketing, well people need to like the product that is being markted.
Pple don't always need to like the product....they NEED to BE SOLD on the product!...look at the state of american football before the 2 leagues merged...it was 3rd rate behind baseball and basketball....then came the merger, and behold the great spectacle called the Super-bowl, winners of 2 former leagues locking horns to win the great trophy to become the TRUE WORLD'S BEST!....and it snow-balled from there...from that point on the NFL smartly built on their initial success by creating glitz & hype over more glitz & hype to the point where the sporting public was hypnotized...the NFL made sure that there would be no competing leagues...........................Another example of good marketing is the WWE (formerly WWF) wrestling,...wrestling always existed in the US, but was a cheesy spectacle up until Vince McMahon started his marketing drive to expand it...it was do or die!...He created the spectacle called WRESTLEMANIA...wrestling's version of the superbowl!!!!!....where hype and glitz became as important as the spectacle!...as a result the WWE became a giant MONEY MAKING MACHINE and Mcmahon became a mega-rich corp.... as the NFL has!...But lets look at the reality of it...when the 2 leagues merged what really Happened??????...answer: Nothing----it was now the same 2 leagues playing the same kinda football in a different context, thats all!.........the same goes for wrestling, it was the same old tricks with different gimmicks!..that all!.....BUT THE PUBLIC WAS SOLD...on both spectacles!
the fact is the more cities u have with a chance for the playoffs late in the year means the bigger the fan base, oh wait well i guess that happens because of the parity that the nfl has, and like u said the salary cap causes parity, so i guess it is because of the cap.
that right!!!...and its all part of the marketing strategy!!!.......the NFL strategy says: get as many teams to look as competitive as possible so the fans can expect them to challenge for a playoff spot, this gives them reason to create the hype needed to draw fan interest!!!!........in order to do that the NFL need to put the emphasis on Parity, and the best tool to do that is: SALARY CAPS... .if you can't see this then i don't know what else to say except that....... you have been had!!
but are u telling me that the nfl doesnt have the best football players in the world?
man what are you talking about?.....the US is the ONLY country that (american/NFL) football players come from!!!.....they are the best by default, cause there is nobody else to compare them to!
look i get it we are just going to disagree on the cap thing, u think its about management more then the money, but yet u dont want the choices the management makes to cost the team, where i like the nfl because the managment is hold accountable for there choices in the sense that the teams has to pay, now to me thats more about the management then money.
No, i don't want the BAD choices the management made to "cost" the team success....WHY is that?...its because if i'm an NFL team-OWNER, and my management sucks...I can fire the GM (and his crew), but the NEW manager that I hire can't do squat to help the team cause of the limitations set on spending....so unless i cut players and eat contracts, there is nothing i can do... and this does not happen too often!.........In MLB, however, I can fire a GM who did a schitty job and put in a new man who might have a better chance of turning the team around.....so what i had said still stands, in the end you still need good management for true success....money is the vehicle to help you gain that success if spent wisely!
its just odd that your soultion to mang. making bad choices is to spend more money and then turn around and say its about management and not money, its just odd.
its not odd at all!!....see the above explanation.......the way a team "pays" for its bad choices is to have to lay out more money to corrects its past screw-ups!.....this is what happens in life all the time!!!....so why should it be different in pro-sports!
***********************************************************************
@ Raph
I actually kind of agree with the notion of getting rid of some of the cellar dwelling teams but not for the purposes of freeing up any talent. More for the fact that it seems pointless to have teams in the league that seem to have no interest in really contending year in and year out. It's one thing to go through a rough spot, but you've got teams like the Pirates that haven't been good in 20 years. And it's not like they haven't had some good players come through their system either. They just get rid of all of them. They're becoming a farm team for other teams.
This is a GOOD point!....and the way you deal with it is by having a 2 TIER league...much like you see in many european soccer leagues.......the last 2 teams that come in dead-last (in MLB) should be relegated into the 2nd Tier league, come the following year....and the top 2 teams from the 2nd Tier league get PROMOTED into the main MLB league!.
By doing this we will prevent cheap stingy greedy owners of teams like the A's, Padres, Marlins, pirates from making a mockery outta MLB........they will be forced to stay outta the cellar to keep their teams from dropping into the lower Tier....so you'll have a double competition in MLB.....1) for the division pennant and 2) to keep from being Demoted!!!
***********************************************
@denny
so the only way to level the feild is a cap, so a select handfull of team cant just outspend the other. now that would mean the players would make less but atleast the super stars would be more evenly spread out
Man, you are so hypnotized by salary caps and that it is scary!!!!.......i tried my best to show you the issues but you don't see the light....i'm kinda sorry for you! | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/13/2009 4:06:21 AM | Man, you are so hypnotized by salary caps and that it is scary!!!!.......i tried my best to show you the issues but you don't see the light....i'm kinda sorry for you!
well i guess its me and most of america, again since football is the most pop. sport. well atleast you know more then every one else, good for you man,lol. look , your soultion for the mlb is to get rid of teams, thats what not having a cap does, in the nfl ,most cities are into there teams, with some exceptions, but no one is talking about getting rid of there teams, dont fell sorry for me, feel sorry for those fans of those teams you want to get rid of. well them and people you call friends, maybe one day they will wise up!!!! | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/13/2009 6:19:07 AM |
again since football is the most pop. sport. well atleast you know more then every one else,
all i know is what the FACTS are cause i took the time to look back on it......if you (and others) wanna keep believing in fairy tales, i guess that is your business!
your soultion for the mlb is to get rid of teams
no, my solution is to reward owners/teams who care about putting out a good product for the fans to see.........and to de-mote teams whose owners don't wanna do anything to improve performance!............its no different than what happens in everyday life!
no one is talking about getting rid of there teams,
its not about getting rid of teams, you didn't understanding what i'm talking about......its about creating incentives for lower teams to get better
feel sorry for those fans of those teams you want to get rid of.
i actually feel sorry for the fans who keep supporting teams...... whose owners don't give a schitt about their own fans. | |
|
| Problem With The Yankees?
Posted: 11/13/2009 10:21:17 AM | | well the fact is football is more pop then baseball, i think its because most teams in the nfl have a chance, i know you disagree and thats cool, but i just think u r wrong. also the fans dont really support those teams that why there parks are empty after the fist couple of months, anyway like i said we are just going to agree to disagree, but baseball is no over and its time to turn my full attention to the nfl, but it was great bebating with you and we will pick this up again when pre season comes around, later | |
|
|
| Page 6 of 6
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 |
|
Home
login 
