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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/12/2009 8:30:03 PM | Arguments go on as to whether immunizations are the cause or not of other problems....and in some instances they very well may be. But the risks of having your child live in a world full of other non-immunized children would be greater than having your child immunized - you can see that in third world countries today. Just because we may not have a disease in this country does not mean that it has been removed from the earth. With global travel as it is today, polio could be brought back to a non-immunized population just like a new strain of influenza can wipe through the population that hasn't been immunized against that new strain.
In our day, we all got chicken pox, mumps, etc and most people recovered just fine and won't get them a second time because we developed the antibodies due to having the disease - same concept with immunizations, except you don't have to suffer the disease. Only problem in our case, is that now we have to worry about the latent chicken pox virus coming back as shingles....but we now have the option of potentially avoiding that with an immunization. I've been lucky so far in that I haven't had to deal with shingles, but from what I've heard from those who have, I'd rather have the immunization. | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/12/2009 8:39:59 PM | If you have medically validated facts proving immunization injections have debilitating or lethal side effects to a statistically significant portion of the population, do please enlighten us. I am aware of none. I am aware of the historic devastation caused to human populations by diseases we have now nearly eliminated through vaccination programs. Smallpox, rubella, mumps, measles (yes, even measles can be lethal), malaria, yellow fever, polio, tuberculosis, influenza...all of these and more have been responsible for the deaths of millions around the world and in North America over just the last hundred years. Smallpox has now been eradicated worldwide because of immunizations, though the threat persists.
Why keep vaccinating? Because the various viruses, bacteria, and disease carrying vermin still infest this world. We do not see the horrific effects of endemic plagues of diseases like polio because of immunization programs. Without them, these diseases WILL return to decimate humanity. I assume (possibly a mistake) that you buy into some half-baked consipiracy theory that immunizations are some sort of plot. Well, they are. The "plot" is to prevent the devastion caused by the spread of horrific and lethal disease. We can and have brought many of those diseases under control.
There is a school of thought, and perhaps this is what you mean, Moraima, that all of these vaccination programs are responsible for the explosive worldwide growth of the human population. To a large degree, that would be correct. The world population has more than doubled since 1950, from 3 billion to more than 6 billion. The reasons are many, but the single most important cause has been the determined efforts by health agencies around the world to immunize against devasting infectious diseases.
There are many who feel that 6 billion is too many for this planet to support. By 2020 there will be 9 billion of us homo sapiens sapiens. We are stripping the planet bare of its natural resources and are already at the point of barely being able to feed this growing population. Maybe Moraima is right. Stop the immunizations, so we can have a few nice plagues and epidemics to reduce some of this surplus humanity. Is that your intention?+ | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/12/2009 8:51:06 PM | Stop the immunizations, so we can have a few nice plagues and epidemics to reduce some of this surplus humanity. Is that your intention?
Or just have another war, oldfolkie. Drop a nuclear bomb or two - at least it's a faster death and we don't have to deal with rotting, plague-infested corpses.
The thing is, as soon as we have a vaccine for one disease, another mutation of it or another pops up. Influenza, for example - the virus mutates every season or so. WHO say it will wipe out millions, like it did in the 1930s.
Ideally, the answer is to colonise another planet. Start afresh when we outgrow earth. | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/12/2009 8:57:34 PM | | Well, that is one solution! But who to drop them on? My personal vote would be to invest (globally) a few trillion in developing a space program on a large enough scale to ship a few billion of us off planet, colonize Mars, or see what Alpha Centauri has to offer. But then I always was an idealist and a dreamer. | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/12/2009 9:13:19 PM | | But if you've been paying attention you would realize moving closer to the sun will be more adventitious than moving away from it. So now we take you serious because???? | |
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*Don*
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Msg: 31 | |
| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/12/2009 9:18:23 PM | There is no topic that cries more for basic common sense than medical and drug issues. I personally don't take a flu shot. I didn't find it useful on the two times that I did -- once I got the flu, once I didn't. But I do take my meds every day for my hypo-para-something-or-the-other -- 21 pills a day and yes, they are drug-store bought. I tried an experiment about 5 years ago of not taking them. I had to find out -- and yes, I realize that it was a rather dumb experiment. I lasted 3 days and on the fourth, a friend had to go to the drug store for me because I was not able to do so. I won't use holistic treatments as a replacement because what I'm using now works and I won't tamper with my own health.
It doesn't make sense to not immunize against the 'big guys' -- smallpox, diptheria, tuberculosis, etc. And if an immunization was developed for cancer or Aids, I'd be one of the first standing in line. But I also don't run to the doctor for meds every time I get sick. I fight it off with natural methods until it is either gone or I'm clearly losing the battle. I believe the body needs to exercise its immune system by fighting disease and infection with its own resources. But again, common sense is needed to realize when the body's had enough exercise and it's time to get some help.
Before there was formula, there was milk. Before they synthesized the meds I take today, I would have been dead.
D | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/12/2009 9:21:24 PM | While I am certainly a modern woman, I am also very much an organic living woman. Have my own heirloom chickens for eggs, thanks to Jimmy and Gloria Stewart getting me started back in the early 80's. Also have a cow share and get fresh raw milk that I use to make yogurt, cheese, butter. Was a La Leche League leader and breastfed my son.
Grow a large organic vegetable garden with more variety than I can remember. All heirloom seeds. Manure for fertilizer. Some times I feel like I was born in the wrong era, but then I encounter my friends where I live who live as I do and I realize we are not as odd as some may think.
We still ride bikes, play soccer, have water balloon fights. Love fly fishing, and sticking our heads under water to watch the trout. Have hummingbird feeders that gives us unending hours of pleasure Have big toy box with Tinker toys, Lego's, Lincoln logs, Match box cars, and old dolls from when I was a kid. We have an tempra and water colour paints for painting, and a box of Crayola crayons of every colour. Still make crystal radios for the kids in the family and neighborhood. Have box of new bubbles in the primary colours that have the wand inside for blowing the bubbles. Kids always have book in their hand and are quick to the overstuffed sofa to have me read. Charles D*ckens (they wont let me spell his name_While I am certainly a modern woman, I am also very much an organic living woman. Have my own heirloom chickens for eggs, thanks to Jimmy and Gloria Stewart getting me started back in the early 80's. Also have a cow share and get fresh raw milk that I use to make yogurt, cheese, butter. Grow a large organic vegetable garden with more variety than I can remember. All heirloom seeds. Manure for fertilizer. Some times I feel like I was born in the wrong era, but then I encounter my friends where I live who live as I do and I realize we are not as odd as some may think.
We still ride bikes, play soccer, have water balloon fights. Love fly fishing, and sticking our heads under water to watch the trout. Have hummingbird feeders that gives us unending hours of pleasure Have big toy box with Tinker toys, Lego's, Lincoln logs, Match box cars, and old dolls from when I was a kid. We have an tempra and water colour paints for painting, and a box of Crayola crayons of every colour. Still make crystal radios for the kids in the family and neighborhood. Have box of new bubbles in the primary colours that have the wand inside for blowing the bubbles. Kids always have book in their hand and are quick to the overstuffed sofa to have me read. Charles D*ckens (POF wont let me spell his name) and Beatrix Potter books are favorites.
Make most meals from scratch and love when I hear the kids come running in asking 'is that bread I smell baking'? Make homemade pasta as I was taught to do as a ten year old. And the kids are so excited because we hung preying mantis nests in the bushes to hatch more natural pest controllers. Have the ladybugs in their container in the refrigerator and will release a few later this week in the roses.
Love making old fashioned sugar cookies and icing for all of us to sit and decorate the cookies with. And the kids still ask to lick the bowl when I make a cake or frosting. And yes, the digital camera is kept near by to take photos and thus make memories. And we all still climb trees, and even the cottage roof. My Mom did this well into her eighties. and Beatrix Potter books are favorites.
Make most meals from scratch and love when I hear the kids come running in asking 'is that bread I smell baking'? Make homemade pasta as I was taught to do as a ten year old. And the kids are so excited because we hung preying mantis nests in the bushes to hatch more natural pest controllers. Have the ladybugs in their container in the refrigerator and will release a few later this week in the roses.
Love making old fashioned sugar cookies and icing for all of us to sit and decorate the cookies with. And the kids still ask to lick the bowl when I make a cake or frosting. And yes, the digital camera is kept near by to take photos and thus make memories. And we all still climb trees, and even the cottage roof. My Mom did this well into her eighties.
And we still wash our hands with Ivory soap when we come in from playing and before meals. Am however thankful that my young son had insulin available when he was growing up. And that we no longer have childrens hospitals with iron lungs for children with polio. It's not the immunizations that are the problem as much as the combining of so many in one shot that may be the issue.
~Beth~ | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/12/2009 9:26:54 PM | | Well, I do try to pay attention. We cannot move much closer to the Sun than Earth's orbit. Venus is quite literally hotter than hell. Humans cannot survive there. Mars however, we now know does have water and an atmosphere. That atmosphere is too thin at present to support human life without oxygen support. But we already have the nascent technology to potentially terraform Mars, by creating a breatheable atmosphere. This isn't science "fiction", it is scientific possibility. All that we lack as a species is the will to achieve that reality. Can we travel light-years to another solar system? Not today, but in twenty years, with a global effort to achieve the necessary technologies? Yes, we could. Will we? I doubt it. | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/12/2009 9:37:00 PM |
What things did you grow up with that isn't practiced today but you survived just fine...? Ah yes, way back in the good ol' days....
A few hours ago I framed an old newspaper clipping of my sisters and I with a few of our friends (all aged around 10 years old) on one of our many regular hikes through the bush, several miles away from home.
We'd load up with PB & J sandwiches (no particular itinerary or destination planned) leave right after breakfast and chores and be mindful of the fact we had to be home by supper.
What fun we had! And what horrors, real or imagined, prevented me from ever giving this freedom to my kids.
HnH  | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/12/2009 9:51:03 PM | ^^^ yes, I can relate! lol
ZenBeth....something strange happened to you post! lol But I enjoyed it.
I also make from scratch my own goodies and even sell on the side.....I cook all my own meals too. Here in the South there is a lot of fried foods and fast food restaurants but I don't indulge.
Sounds like to have the lifestyle I grew up to love!
Also sounds like we are not done with with the immunization discussion....
I do believe we have benefited from these killer-disease vaccines, but there really is so much more investigation and study to be done.
My Cousin has an Autistic son...her own exhaustive research seems to suggest some vaccines may have contributed to his condition. She is quick to point out not all, but some may be a problem. She has also done research on what helps with Autism. | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/13/2009 9:25:56 AM | I am allergic to milk. My mother is allergic to nuts. Just because a few were lucky and didn't know anyone like this, doesn't mean we don't exist.
Immunizations that don't exist in third world countries show clearly they are missed! Open your eyes and read the reports on what happens when they come in contact with chicken pox or some other virus we are immunized for. It causes death. The children have weakened immune systems to begin with and you add the virus, poof they are gone.
Immunizations are given to children that are developing. Studies of the brain are clearly showing that the links that disconnect are more apparent at the age they are given immunizations. That leads people to connect the two where there is no connection. Remember when we thought flies came from meat by themselves, we didn't see the flies laying eggs in the meat? An autistic brain has different wiring and if the wires aren't used or stimulated more so than the average child, there will be disconnections. These are proven facts. I am in agreement that Asperger's in particular is hereditary. Check the studies being done at the University of Pittsburgh, Dr. Nancy Minschew.
Anyone that ate dirt as a child may have problems today because of it... | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/13/2009 11:48:54 AM |
All that we lack as a species is the will to achieve that reality. Can we travel light-years to another solar system? Not today, but in twenty years, with a global effort to achieve the necessary technologies? Yes, we could. Will we? I doubt it.
Now if they found diamonds, gold, or lord forbid oil on Mars instead of water and atmosphere - we'd already have mines and wells in place! Along with the support colonies and amenities needed to rape that planet as thoroughly as we have our own! And if they actually find reson to believe there is anything valuable out in the stars - you had better believe that global effort will get launched. But since the only perceived reasons aside from scientific discovery to do so currently are the very valid need to get all our eggs out of this one fragile basket it just isn't cost effective!
As to all the rest - I think the more we insulate ourselves from nature - the less we are capable of facing anything beyond the sterile overly protective life that is being forced on us today.
Cheers | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/13/2009 12:03:46 PM | I nursed both my babies and when I could no longer the pediatrician told me to use condensed milk with karo syrup and water... he said it was the closest thing to mothers milk and to stay away from formula... I believe that my mother used that recipe also...
we only had 4 channels to choose from 4,5,9, 19 and if you were lucky 41....dang ol' rabbit ears... lol...children were the remote control & cartoons were only on Saturday mornings and then outside you went... who wanted to stay indoors anyway....
we had play shoes and school shoes and had to wait til we wore them out or outgrew them to get new ones..
My mother cooked most every meal.. TV dinners were new... and they came out with TV trays..... lol....
I bought 45's with my money before 8 tracks came out.....
Thank goodness for Amber Alerts now... and laproscopic surgery... | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/13/2009 1:02:27 PM | What things did you grow up with that isn't practiced today but you survived just fine...?
Walked to and from school, even in the snow and freezing temps. Of course, would stop off at friend's houses on the way home to cool off or thaw out!!
As a teenager, my friends and I would walk all over our part of town on Saturdays, and usually made it to the park where we knew the boys would be playing football.
Climbed trees, ate berries right off the bushes, ate snow, ate icicles, ate rock salt that had been put down in the winter to melt the ice.
Cars and houses did not have air conditioning - used water coolers and fans.
Rode bicycles without helmets and pads - always lost when my brothers played chicken with me and would fall down and get skinned up knees and elbows which we used mecurachrome (sp?) on.
Went down to the creek and captured all kinds of creatures, and sometimes even brought them home!
Played 78 records and watched black & white TV (when we were finally able to afford one).
Had one TV, one record player, one radio, and one telephone in the entire house!!!! OMG!
Made everything from scratch, including cookies and cakes (however, we did eat store-bought bread).
Had only 1 car for the entire family.
Used cloth diapers and Mom had a poultice she would make up and spread on our chests when we got sick, ate horehound candy and gargled with warm salt water for a sore throat. Very seldom saw the inside of a Doctor's office.
I could go on and on, but this is getting a bit long so I'll stop for now and save your eyes!
Sequoyah | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/13/2009 1:03:23 PM | I agree with you, Lil Booker. We live in a day and time where so many chemicals and additives are in the food, the water, and the air, so it's no wonder we have developed many, many conditions that were unheard of in the past.....for example, there are so many hormones in our food that young girls are developing "early", and getting their periods as early as age 9......
Yes, lots of people did drink "milk" from a cow, but actually, cow's milk is formulated for the dietary needs of "baby cows" -- calves...not humans! And Asians and African-Americans are notoriously "lactose intolerent" because of a certain enzyme that we lack.....I can remember as a child absolutely hating to drink "cow's milk" because of all the gas and pain it caused me.
But I don't have that problem drinking "soy based" products...... | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/13/2009 1:05:46 PM | "Stop the immunizations, so we can have a few nice plagues and epidemics to reduce some of this surplus humanity. Is that your intention?"
Not necessary if the Bird Flu epidemic becomes reality. Do people really think that epidemics are all natural in cause?
If people want primary vaccines for their children that is up to them. No revaccinating would help to prevent at lot of side effects.
Google Catherine O'Driscoll..................I can give you a list of people, but start with Catherine in your research.
"If there was absolute proof.. there would be no other choice.. BUT.. to stop immunizarions. Therefore.. there is no proof as of yet.. that immunizations cause anything other than what their meant to do.. prevent. "
Sorry, but society will comply with the theories of Big Business Drug companies who will not allow their best money makers top stop producing.
ps. Check facts that during an epidemic x amount of the population died off. Today the numbers haven't changed from centuries ago. The same x amount of the population die off today.
Maybe ask why some lived and some died during an epidemic.
A short form answer for the reason for alergies is the the liver and/or the kidney becomes overwelmed with toxins and alergy symptoms show up. Add unnecessary vaccines that the body has to deal with and the body ends up with multiple issues.
Do people know that a simple blood test will show whether or not people have natural immunity to certain diseases? Google titer test.
I for one have a natural immunity to small pox. I don't want to know how much damage was done to my body when I was forced by immigration laws to have a small pox vaccine done twice. Once days after my body didn't react to the first vaccine. I was only 9 at the times, and had no idea about any of this. | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/13/2009 1:26:49 PM | Sequoyah,
I used to run screaming when Mom broke out the bottle of mercurochrome... lol.. thanks for the memory.... 
Hmmm it contained mercury.... had no idea... so not able to sell as safe I just googled it... out since Harding's time it says....
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/13/2009 1:50:15 PM | ahhh yes! Mecurachrome and iodine! OW!!!
I'll never forget the time, as a young teenager, that I was making a cake. One of my friends came over as I was sifting flour, etc. I told her I was making a cake. She asked: Where's the box? I told her I didn't make a cake from a box, I make it from 'scratch'. She went home and told her mother I was making a cake from 'scraps'!!
Mmmmmmmmmm....moist homemade carrot cake with a light cream cheese frosting!
Anyone want a slice? | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/13/2009 2:30:09 PM | Sequoyah,
Absolutely! Same way I was raised.
And I raised my own children in just about the same way.
It's why I decided to buy a bit of land and a log cabin.. woods.. no AC, no running water other than one cold faucet, wood stove and wood heater, fresh eggs, fresh vegetables, dancing in the rain(haha), etc.
I saw the push-button world being born and I wanted to raise them 3/4 away from it, for their own health and well-being and outdoors and FUN.
Oh, I breast fed and used cloth diapers. When one was 6 months old, I had no more breast milk and he went straight to milk. | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/13/2009 3:30:15 PM | Angel.... omg.... I remember reading a book during medieval age where the women chewed the carrots for the cake.... thank goodness for food processors...
My daughter asked why we didn't have carrot cake yesterday... sigh... | |
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/13/2009 8:01:30 PM | For all of us who rode bikes, and of course fell off of them, and are here to talk about, great! I have a niece who wasn't so lucky. . . . her death, at eight, has reverberated through my extended family: the grief, the guilt, the over management of the remaining children. . .
For those who don't like seat belts: a driver wearing a seat belt reacts about a tenth of a second faster than one without. Perhaps if the driver who hit my cousin, killing her and four of her children had been wearing a seat belt, he would have had the time to have avoided the accident.
I lost several friends in elementary school to polio, and have known many more in my lifetime who are now suffering through the late consequences of the disease. My mother had small pox as a child, and TB. My favorite Uncle died of TB when I was two. I've never even had whooping cough.
For me? I'm glad for helmet and seat belt laws, and the availability of vaccines.
Just me. . . .
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| Before there was Formula...there was Milk!
Posted: 4/14/2009 10:00:00 AM | ^^^and these are some of the good reasons times have changed.
No matter how diligent we are, there will always be danger. And through personal experiences, new and present dangers will bring still more advocates and changes, then our children may grow up and share this same kind of reflection! 
(I still don't think the dirt and dirty hands hurt me...yet!) :) | |
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