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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:29:44 PM |
I figured you had Mark 11 in mind
Thanks for shedding light on that, but no, I was thinking:
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)
And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)
I did a little more digging and found James 5:14-15, Mark 11:24-25, John 15:7 and Matthew 21:21-22 too (more on this later), which may back your hypothesis that someone must be a “believer” for this to work.
What I was asking is, have you ever tested that?
If by “that”, you're asking if I believed in God & Christ then asked for something – yes. I was raised a Christian, carried & read my bible openly in school, was a youth minister, at fourteen years old I was an usher in a church with 4000 members (the next youngest to ever be an usher in that church was 35 – my knowledge, faith & activity in the church was that 'deep'). I then helped a church of 14 members grow to 3000+ members & was being groomed to be a youth pastor there before I “lost faith” and converted from Christianity to an agnostic. It's very likely my ties to my past faith are what keep me in the realm of agnosticism, instead of full blown atheism.
And, when I asked for things and the didn't happen, I began to question “why?”. If the bible clearly states we can do certain things through prayer, why weren't they happening? (more on this later).
Personally, I don't think any part of New Testament is "inerrant, God-breathed scripture".
What is your mechanism for determining which parts of the bible are from God, and which are nonsense? How can you believe the creator of everything can't make one infallible book as a guide for his “children”? If you were God, what possible motivation would you have to allow poor translations & misinformation to be included in your book?
The reason why god doesn't heal amputees is that god is imaginary.That's the easy answer. It's also the stupid answer.
Is it? Lets take something like cancer then. How survivable was cancer prior to modern medicine? Despite all the scripture clearly stating believers can heal the sick through prayer: Matthew 7:7-8, Luke 11:9-13, James 5:14-15, Mark 11:24-25, John 15:7 and Matthew 21:21-22 (there's many more, but I'm too lazy to cite them all, I presume this is sufficient for this discussion), how many people died under the care of such “faith healers”? How many survived? How survivable is it now with modern medicine & hospitals? If man is able to heal people better than “God” was, how can you believe God is more powerful than man? The evidence that man has a better success rate is overwhelming. Just a couple generations ago cancer was a death sentence – now it hardly ever is. How can you come to the conclusion that the bible's teaching are genuine when man is doing a better job at things than God?
Why is it that when we look around us, it is almost always the people in remission from cancer, who really take a joy in life, and who are the ones to really tell us that we should live each day as if it was our last?
This should actually run COUNTER to Christianity. Since heaven is supposed to be the end all be all awesomeness, why would they take such joy in each and every day they're cursed on this evil planet, and away from the majesty of God? Considering each day of life on this planet a “blessing” is a secular point of view isn't it?
Why is it that it is those who have suffered, who have the most wisdom on what is truly important?
I have had a couple NDE's. I'm not presumptuous enough to say my perspective is any more wise (or not) than someone else's. Certainly my perspective changed – but my perception is my reality no?
that if it only when we lose something, that we learn to appreciate it
This isn't always true. Yes, I've “lost” people / things and didn't really appreciate them until they were gone. However, I've truly appreciated things & people in my life long before I lost them... and some people I was completely content with letting go (even though I'd previously appreciated them).
If anyone can teach us the value of having 2 functioning arms and 2 functioning legs, it is they.
Funny, I thought it was I that taught them the value of having all my functioning limbs. They may help me to appreciate what I have, but how can they (who have no function) teach me the value of a function they can't demonstrate? Wouldn't that be the blind leading the... well... not blind?
If we are too stupid to see that, then more fool us, for we are the amputees, not valuing the great gifts we have every day.
Okay, maybe. But, I submit: if God claims you can move mountains in his name – I don't see any reason what-so-ever that he can't re-grow limbs for amputees... unless, of course, he really doesn't exist. At least, not in the context of Christianity which postulates God can (but has never demonstrated this ability in my lifetime to any of us, or anyone else I can find) do things. | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:01:41 PM | | Prayer is not always answer. The psalmist David wrote in Psalms 37, " Delight yourself also in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. " This tells me that I am to pray Gods will and not that of my own. David wanted his own desires to be the same as the desires of God. If I pray a fleshly prayer for cash or a new car, I dont think God hears these. Jesus on many occasions asked for Gods will and not his own. It is prayers such as these that are heard. | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/7/2009 12:42:48 AM |
This tells me that I am to pray Gods will and not that of my own. David wanted his own desires to be the same as the desires of God. If I pray a fleshly prayer for cash or a new car, I dont think God hears these. Jesus on many occasions asked for Gods will and not his own. It is prayers such as these that are heard.
I could pray to a milk jug and get the same results. Any prayer that doesn't get answered is not the will of the milk jug and any prayer that does get answered is the will of the milk jug. | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/7/2009 2:57:52 AM | Re Message #103 - Countbli
I could pray to a milk jug and get the same results. Any prayer that doesn't get answered is not the will of the milk jug and any prayer that does get answered is the will of the milk jug.
Strange that you mention the god of milkjugs. I often pray to the milk jug god that the milk in my milk jug doesn't sour before it's use by date. Sometimes my prayers are answered...and sometimes not. I suppose I could pray to the refigerator god to help the milk jug god out....but i have learned by using scientific heuristic learning methodologies, that if i consistently close the refigerator door securely, and lower the refrigerator thermostat setting, that my prayers are answered more often than not. The only problem being that the freezer god sometimes turns the milk in the milk jug into an icy milkblock!  | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/7/2009 1:33:28 PM |
The psalmist David wrote in Psalms 37, " Delight yourself also in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. " This tells me that I am to pray Gods will and not that of my own.
I'm not sure I get the same interpretation from that verse. I don't see anywhere in there it says anything like, "You'll only get it if it's in parallel with God's will.". However, I am aware of 'The Lord's Prayer' where Jesus does say 'Thy will be done' (I presume I don't need to cite this, but am happy to). But what of all the canon that doesn't mention God's will as a requisite of the prayer being answered?:
And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)
And many others like it: Matthew 7:7-8, Luke 11:9-13, James 5:14-15, Mark 11:24-25, John 15:7 and Matthew 21:21-22 - none of which mention the prayer must be in sync with God's will?
Even though I'm not convinced the prayer needs to be part of God's will, it doesn't negate the problem with Prayers not being answered. Even if got only answered a certain percentage of prayers (for some reason or another), the only way to prove that is to demonstrate God answers more prayers sent to him, than say: a wishing well, praying to an alternate deity, or praying to an idle... like the milk jug. NO SUCH EVIDENCE EXISTS!!!
No evidence of it existing = the Bible lies = the Bible is false. The most rational explanation for this is that God doesn't exist. At least, not as the Bible describes God. If there is a deity out there, it's non-intervention policy is quite obvious. | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/7/2009 4:01:13 PM | "No evidence of it existing = the Bible lies = the Bible is false. The most rational explanation for this is that God doesn't exist. At least, not as the Bible describes God. If there is a deity out there, it's non-intervention policy is quite obvious."
.. my experience with God has been very different from yours... my study of Gods Word, prayer and Living Truth have given me complete Certainty that God Exists... it has also given me Spirit Filled Insights to Gods Character and Promises... pray for everything, God Will Show us what is in His Will or not and we will be happier for it... what earnest Christian desires to live in sin??.... blessings | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/7/2009 5:23:55 PM | James 4:3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
NIV | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/7/2009 5:51:23 PM |
James 4:3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
NIV
So not wanting to live with phantom limb pain is the wrong motive? Wanting to be able to hug your children but you can't because you have no arms, is the wrong motive? What is the right motive for wanting amputated limbs restored? | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:09:12 PM | Message # 107 - Abby
Apologists for God(s) concerning his /her /its / their failure to deliver the goods sought by prayerful intercession invariably invoke the usual escape clauses....
It's not his / her / its / their will at that time.
The prayers were made with improper / selfish motives.
the diety'(s)' action's are unfathomable to mere mortals...but he / she / it / they must have had a good reason which the diety(s) is under no obligation to share with mere mortals.
The intercession was witheld to prevent a worse evil from happening.
The intercession was witheld for the sake of the spiritual growth of the person praying, or the person who is the object of the prayer.
The people who make these kinds of rationalisations presume to speak for their god(s) but their god(s) seem to be silent in their own defence. | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:38:50 PM | "So not wanting to live with phantom limb pain is the wrong motive? Wanting to be able to hug your children but you can't because you have no arms, is the wrong motive? What is the right motive for wanting amputated limbs restored? "
God is more Holy and Loving than man so if you have compassion God Has More... God Has that persons Greater Good in Hand, maybe that persons prayers will be realized in Heaven and Eternity, I doubt they will be angry at God for His Perfect Timing... how often have we witnessed the people with the most afflictions be the happiest and strongest, a light in a dark world like Terry Fox... if you think that you have the answers and are more loving than God remember Gods Word says that any good in us comes from God so pls remember to thank God for the compassion that you show.... blessings | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/8/2009 4:12:27 PM | I do not know everything but I do know that God is God and there is no other. Spoild brat doesn't get his way and leaves God the first time He says no had no love for God in his heart only his wallet. God has a plan you can walk in it or not. It is your life. He does not give in to black mail or bribes.
I was raised agnostic and know God like I know my mom. She does not answer every call but she still loves me. I do not see her but I know she is there. If I go to NY and look around I'll find her. If we go shopping and she sees I like something that is out of my range she'll buy it for me. When I was covered in mud and asphalt after a hard days play she loved me when I did well in school she loved me. When I left home and moved away she loved me. Sick, well, hungry, thirsty, acting like a brat stamping my foot shouting, "I never asked to be born I hate you" sitting at her feet holding her leg with a runny nose screaming as she tried to go out with dad, no matter the age state or stage my mom loved me. So does my God.
I am sorry for people who need God to be thier personal slave, genie,lacky to believe in Him. He will not do it. Said so in the Bible. I think that people who want a god they can control are the biggest wimps in the world. Do not cheery pick the Bible read the whole thing and believe it or not. It is your life if you want the God of the Bible in it or not so be it.
I read books on every religion until I found the one I believed so I can not believe that anything I say can make a person believe. Phantom limb pain comes from your brain beliving you still have a limb. Are you saying you can believe you have a limb but you can't believe in God? wow. | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/8/2009 5:57:14 PM | How often do people faithfully express the true nature of something very important to them. Even the details of fisherman's first catch is subjected to excessive embellishment.
I think it is just a part of what we are. Nowadays I feel so long as our expressions don't overshadow others' and force them to fall in our place, we can all get along and continue to express. Its all good.  | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/9/2009 2:38:11 PM |
God Has that persons Greater Good in Hand
My evidence that I am more compassionate that God:
I've stopped men (plural) from beating women
I've fed hundreds of families, and thousands of homeless
I've helped build shelter for families that couldn't afford it
I've trained people to do jobs so they could support their families on their own
I've negotiated down debt for people who would have normally gone homeless, and gave them the ability to make their debt more manageable
God didn't do these things, I did. You can not say that God made me (an Agnostic) do these things, and still say God gave me free will. If he gave me free will, then I did those things of my own free will – and therefore I am more compassionate than God. If you say that God is who ultimately "made me" or "gave me the power" to do these things, then you also have to accept that it's God that allows for all the human atrocities in the world (rape, murder, theft, Hitler, burning of witches). You can't say God has an intervention policy, but that he's also a loving and kind God. No loving & compassionate father, who has the power to stop siblings from performing human atrocities will allow them to happen. You can't say a father would allow his son to rape his daughter (actually, he commands this in the OT on multiple occasions http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm), and also say "It's for her own 'Greater Good'". That's just sick.
how often have we witnessed the people with the most afflictions be the happiest and strongest, a light in a dark world like Terry Fox
This is not evidence for God's existence.
if you think that you have the answers and are more loving than God
I do indeed. And, since people can observe my compassion, it's measurable. Since you can directly observe it, it sorta helps the credibility a little.
Gods Word says that any good in us comes from God
So you say. But:
1)You've not cited any canon for this
2)You have no evidence of words being from God
pls remember to thank God for the compassion that you show
It's either me, or it's God. I can just as easily point to a book that says your good deeds are a gift from Satan – it has just as much supporting evidence (none) that it's true. You can't have your cake, and eat it too.
Are you saying you can believe you have a limb but you can't believe in God?
Since we can observe exactly why phantom limb pain exists, again, it helps the credibility along doesn't it? | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/9/2009 5:57:40 PM |
God is more Holy and Loving than man so if you have compassion God Has More... God Has that persons Greater Good in Hand, maybe that persons prayers will be realized in Heaven and Eternity, I doubt they will be angry at God for His Perfect Timing... how often have we witnessed the people with the most afflictions be the happiest and strongest, a light in a dark world like Terry Fox... if you think that you have the answers and are more loving than God remember Gods Word says that any good in us comes from God so pls remember to thank God for the compassion that you show.... blessings
I'm one of the most apathetic people on the planet, and I can assure you that I have more compassion than god. If I had the magic ability to cure all diseases, regrow lost limbs, restore sight, hearing, etc. I would cure the entire world without a second thought. There really is no excuse not to. | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/9/2009 9:34:29 PM | RE Msg: 114 by CountIbli:
I'm one of the most apathetic people on the planet, and I can assure you that I have more compassion than god. If I had the magic ability to cure all diseases, regrow lost limbs, restore sight, hearing, etc. I would cure the entire world without a second thought. There really is no excuse not to. I'd advise against it. There is a Ray Bradbury story that comes to mind. I believe it's called "The Scythe". Quite a sickening story, but incredibly compelling. It really made me realise that having the power to prevent death does not automatically lead to a very pleasant existence. There are other Sci-Fi stories of a similar nature, that all ask the same questions, what if you could prevent all death, what if you could make all people perfectly healthy. They always seem to end in a very horrible way.
Maybe that's just because Sci-Fi writers are pessimists. But I doubt it. They seem to believe in the future.
Maybe it's because Sci-Fi writers are theists. But I doubt it. They seem to rather ignore G-d for the most part, or treat him much like many atheists do, as something stupid people used to believe in.
I just think that it's because they actually considered it, because they were writing a story that needed to be believable, and so they had to make it realistic, and what they worked out would probably happen.
It's very enlightening, is Sci-Fi. It doesn't give us the answers we'd like to hear. But it does seem to give us the answers that make sense to us. | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/10/2009 6:18:35 PM |
I'm one of the most apathetic people on the planet, and I can assure you that I have more compassion than god. If I had the magic ability to cure all diseases, regrow lost limbs, restore sight, hearing, etc. I would cure the entire world without a second thought. There really is no excuse not to.
I can think of one good reason not to....how can appreciate anything that is "good" if you have never experienced anything "bad"? Utopia is a nice dream but I don't personally wish to live in this existence if it is to become Utopia. I have been through some rotten things in my life, and through each and every one, I grew as a person and I appreciate the good that comes into my life very much...probably moreso because of the places I've been in my life.
Now onto the topic at hand...
I will preface by saying I'm not religious, I've never been religious, I've never been indoctrinated by religion and yes, I believe in God. I have since a very small child asked a lot of questions about God, first to my parents who also were not religious and simply told me that a belief in God was a personal choice. I have read some religious texts but don't really follow any particular one. There are things I read that just seem "right" to me....the existence of God being one of those things.
When I sit still and listen to the wind in the trees, look to the stars, watch a thunderstorm, a bird flying, look at a beautiful flower, look at a weed....I can feel there is more to everything than we are consciously aware of so I believe in a creator or God if you will.
I have for as long as I can remember believed that there existed some greater power that was a part of me. The few times in my life when I have truly prayed and given over to the will of God, amazing things have happened. I have physically felt arms embracing me and I have been moved from one location to another with little awareness of the journey.
The first such incident happened at a moment of great loss in my life when I felt so utterly alone....I prayed to God and asked him to comfort me. I felt arms embracing me and I was able to sleep peacefully and awoke feeling very contented.
The second incident happened at a moment of great distress in my life when I felt paralzyed to action. I don't want to go into a lot of details here but suffice to say I was in a room feeling trapped by my indecision about what to do next so I asked God to lead me where I needed to go. The next thing I remember, I was walking into a room of people three floors down from where I had been with absolutely no memory of the walk. I was led into a room of people who wanted to be there for me...people I had earlier yelled at and offended...people I consciously never wanted to come face to face with again. I freaked out and ran back up three floors to the safety of the room I had been in previously.
I don't pray alot for sure because to be honest, those two incidents freaked me out completely but those two incidents cemented by belief in a creator (God). | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/10/2009 10:36:23 PM |
I'd advise against it. There is a Ray Bradbury story that comes to mind. I believe it's called "The Scythe". Quite a sickening story, but incredibly compelling. It really made me realise that having the power to prevent death does not automatically lead to a very pleasant existence. There are other Sci-Fi stories of a similar nature, that all ask the same questions, what if you could prevent all death, what if you could make all people perfectly healthy. They always seem to end in a very horrible way.
Surely if I'm an omnipotent being I can figure out a way to make immortality not suck! Christians and Muslims seem to think that Heaven is going to be the bees knees for all eternity. So why do we have to suffer first? Surely, as an omnipotent being, I can create a universe where people can have joy without knowing suffering. | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/11/2009 1:29:08 PM | Let's review:
scorpiomover's defense is something like - "the world would suck, a sci-fi book told me so". Which, I suppose shouldn't be a shock from someone that read the bible and concluded it must be true without any supporting evidence (and continuously mounting scientific / archeological evidence supporting the opposite conclusion).
I can think of one good reason not to....how can appreciate anything that is "good" if you have never experienced anything "bad"?
This is a false dichotomy. Humans are capable of experiencing positive feelings, even in the absence of negative circumstances. I've never been raped, or watched my family die at the hands of a man with a machete - and yet - I'm still able to appreciate & have great joy in my life. I've had items (including a car) stolen from me, but I was able to appreciate & enjoy those things before they were taken from me. I don't need to consume feces to appreciate the awesome flavor of strawberries.
the existence of God being one of those things.
If you believe in God (capitol G), you are religious in the Judea / Christian sense. All other gods are lower case "g".
Other than that - your two incidents (while interesting) don't qualify as evidence, as they're equally well explained by alternative observations:
* Coincidence
* Acknowledgement / embracing of pain / forgiving self / willingness to 'let go' leads to peace & sleep
* Validation prejudices
etc | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/16/2009 7:51:27 PM | RE Msg: 118 by NerdStatus:
Let's review:
scorpiomover's defense Let's. Where on Earth did I use the word "defend"? Where was CountIbli attacking me in the post in which I referred to sci-fi stories? Sorry, did I post something invisible, that you and CountIbli can read, but I cannot? Funny that, how you can read stuff I never wrote, isn't it?
is something like - "the world would suck, a sci-fi book told me so". Oh, so you've never read Ray Bradbury then. I guess you don't know that half the gadgets you own come from someone watching Star Trek, seeing them use a gadget, and thinking "that would be cool. I wonder if it's possible?" Ignorance is no excuse. Go read the stories, then come back and criticise.
Which, I suppose shouldn't be a shock from someone that read the bible and concluded it must be true without any supporting evidence (and continuously mounting scientific / archeological evidence supporting the opposite conclusion). Ahhh, so THAT's your position. You think that you've read all the scientific knowledge and archaeological knowledge there is, and you've found that it ALL supports the "opposite conclusion", whatever THAT is, and you assume that I'm nowhere near as well read as you, and that I'm ignorant compared to you, simply because you MUST be right, because you THINK so. Waahey, you've achieved total assumption that you know everything and everyone who doesn't agree with you, knows nothing, without any proof whatsoever.
I can think of one good reason not to....how can appreciate anything that is "good" if you have never experienced anything "bad"? This is a false dichotomy. Humans are capable of experiencing positive feelings, even in the absence of negative circumstances. I've never been raped, or watched my family die at the hands of a man with a machete - and yet - I'm still able to appreciate & have great joy in my life. I've had items (including a car) stolen from me, but I was able to appreciate & enjoy those things before they were taken from me. I don't need to consume feces to appreciate the awesome flavor of strawberries.
If you believe in God (capitol G), you are religious in the Judea / Christian sense. All other gods are lower case "g". Please get it straight. THERE IS NO JUDEO-CHRISTIAN G-D. There is Judaism's view of G-d, and there is the Xian view of G-d. The two are about as far apart as 3 and infinity. | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/17/2009 1:09:44 AM |
Let's. Where on Earth did I use the word "defend"?
You didn't. It was a bad word choice.
I guess you don't know that half the gadgets you own come from someone watching Star Trek, seeing them use a gadget, and thinking "that would be cool. I wonder if it's possible?"
“But, some of the things we use today were thought of in Science Fiction” is not supporting evidence that the world would be complete crap in the absence of suffering.
You think that you've read all the scientific knowledge and archaeological knowledge there is
If you have archaeological evidence that the stories of the Bible are true, I'm all ears.
I don't think you'd find many who would say it's not theoretically possible for you to appreciate "good" just as much as someone who had been through "bad".
Logical fallacy (argumentum ad populum) – it doesn't matter what the majority of people “think” is true. Truth is truth.
But from what we see of cancer patients in remission
Okay, but you're still arguing that God created this so people can... experience greater joy? The logical extension of this is something like, I can beat you (my wife, child, pastor) , because it'll teach you to... what... have greater joy or something?
There is Judaism's view of G-d, and there is the Xian view of G-d.
Which was my reason for using a forward slash / between the statements. It's shorthand for “or”, as the hyphen – is shorthand for “and”. I believe you mentioned a UK vs US English issue before... maybe this is another “lost in translation” thing? | |
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| Your case for/against God.
Posted: 11/20/2009 11:24:05 AM | RE Msg: 117 by CountIbli:
Surely if I'm an omnipotent being I can figure out a way to make immortality not suck! Christians and Muslims seem to think that Heaven is going to be the bees knees for all eternity. So why do we have to suffer first? If you suffer first, then go to Heaven for all eternity, then the suffering cannot be for all eternity, or else you'd never get to Heaven. So then the "sucky part" would not be immortal, but would be mortal. So immortality would not "suck".
Surely, as an omnipotent being, I can create a universe where people can have joy without knowing suffering. On what basis? Just because you're omnipotent, without having to prove that you can do it? Then you can create anything, without any proof, even illogical things. If you can create illogical things, then you can create completely contradictory things as well, like 2 things that contradict each other in the same person. If you can do that, then you can create a universe is which people can have suffering, and appear to you to be in suffering, and still not be suffering, even though all that in the same person is a contradiction and illogical. So by your own logic, you cannot diprove that the universe is truly with suffering.
I'd still agree with you that there is much suffering in the world, though.
RE Msg: 120 by NerdStatus:
Let's. Where on Earth did I use the word "defend"? You didn't. It was a bad word choice.
I guess you don't know that half the gadgets you own come from someone watching Star Trek, seeing them use a gadget, and thinking "that would be cool. I wonder if it's possible?" “But, some of the things we use today were thought of in Science Fiction” is not supporting evidence that the world would be complete crap in the absence of suffering.
You think that you've read all the scientific knowledge and archaeological knowledge there is If you have archaeological evidence that the stories of the Bible are true, I'm all ears.
I don't think you'd find many who would say it's not theoretically possible for you to appreciate "good" just as much as someone who had been through "bad". Logical fallacy (argumentum ad populum) – it doesn't matter what the majority of people “think” is true. Truth is truth.
But from what we see of cancer patients in remission Okay, but you're still arguing that God created this so people can... experience greater joy? The logical extension of this is something like, I can beat you (my wife, child, pastor) , because it'll teach you to... what... have greater joy or something?
There is Judaism's view of G-d, and there is the Xian view of G-d. Which was my reason for using a forward slash / between the statements. It's shorthand for “or”, as the hyphen – is shorthand for “and”. I believe you mentioned a UK vs US English issue before... maybe this is another “lost in translation” thing?
There is an assumption amongst people raised in a Christian background, or a post-Christian backgound, to assume that just because Christians rely on the Bible, and Jews do too, that their views are the same.
Jewish views of G-d are founded on the Old Testament and other Jewish sources, but do not agree with much of the views of G-d as expressed in the New Testament. Further, Jews have a completely different view of the Old Testament. Even if Jews took the OT literally, they STILL see the G-d of the OT completely differently than how many Xians and post-Xians see G-d as described by the Old Testament. You'd have more basis to say that Christian/Atheist view of G-d, because they're actually a lot closer in their views of G-d, than the Jewish view of G-d is to many Christians' view of G-d.
The fact is that Jewish views of G-d are extremely different than Christian views of G-d. | |
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