| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/11/2005 7:02:19 AM | @ All
I wonder how the definition of "attack" has sunk so low. To the point someone can ask a question, and when they know your answer to be B.S. they call you you on it with quotes from your own Bible they become attackers of "the way." Some of the wording in his titles I will admit are interesting, controversial yes, however the little I have actually come to know Verm I see a passivist, there is no real harm meant in his words. He has one now, is it wrong to masturbate, or what does the Bible say about it something like that, this is a man looking for conversation as much as anything else, maybe you could just try answering his questions and help him understand (if he doesn't already) the basis of his misunderstanding. Bare in mind however just because you cant answer the question put to you doesn't make it an attack.
@ Nittany
What can I say Nittany, bravo! You and Tim are an inspiring pair, and indeed we all have something to learn from you Christian and Pagan a like. Your and Tim's Spirituality, open mindedness, and security in your beliefs is a beautiful thing! Keep up the good work sissy! 
~Love is the Law~ | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/11/2005 9:39:26 PM | | Nittany, I did a little statistical checking. Of the last 74 active threads here, 21 of them questioned or attacked Traditional Christian beliefs. Several more threads were borderline. None of them, I repeat, none of them, at least in the title, attacked pagan or atheist beliefs. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/11/2005 9:47:11 PM | In the TITLE? WHAT are you talking about? That has nothing to do with my point.
That said, I think it's a little premature for such "statistical" analysis, don't you? I'm not even sure whether you know what I'm referring to... I'm not referring to titles (scroll up; I explain that) and the whole questioning vs. attacking thing seems still to be causing some confusion...
Thanks for the data, though. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/11/2005 9:53:50 PM | I have a lot of respect for the many wonderful things people wish to believe in...and the god they wish to worship...just as long as they keep an open mind and listen to both sides of the story. We are not here to change anyone's mind. We ar simply here because we care. And we have a voice. And we have a freedome to express ourselves.
-M | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/11/2005 9:59:38 PM | I would be curious as to why you got the boot...and by whom???
I'm a MOD here also and I don't see why would anyone care what we say here unless you flame someone and were OFF topic. Is that why RD???
I can't image it was becuase you started a thread about pegans? I'll start it if you like...what is it you want to say?
-Michael
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/11/2005 10:26:42 PM | OK, that was one stupid thread...people were all over the place but she was stating that she enjoyed herself...and that's it. The dude that took it to the next level should have been warned...I would have given him also a day ban for that stupic remark.
LOOK, we are not perfect and we are NOT everywhere...if you see more things like this report them. NO one should ban you for posting your mind...but if you flame someone that is different and YOU did that when you called him a wanker!!! That was uncool.
-M | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 6/28/2007 5:56:42 PM | I dug this up and decided to thrust in back in the spotlight.
I can live with the fact that not everyone agrees with me. What I have issues with is the fact that you have people who have every right to not believe in Religion or church labels haranguing Christians like Saul of Tarsis.
I can sit at a table with an athiest, an agnostic, a muslim, a budhist, a terrorist, a wiccan or a satanist and know without a doubt, that as a christian, that my personal beliefs are the ONLY belief in America that is not tolerated or respected. (okay, maybe we won't tolerate terroism either)......I'm just saying.
I've finally achieved inner peace. I"m not really interested in pitching you a sales pitch about how I got my inner peace. What I'd like...is to be able to share my belief's without being bashed about like the red headed step child. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 6/28/2007 6:10:45 PM |
I'm curious to know how many here respect others beliefs, even when they differ from your own and how many think that all religious people are brainwashed idiots or all spiritual people are self-deluded egoists. How many people casually apply some blanket derogatory statement to all people in a religious or a spiritual community?
Idiots? no, Indocrinated? Yes.
Fact is a huge number of core beliefs don't deserve much respect. The idea of everlasting hellfire, a personal god who intercedes in mens affairs. Killing for your god, dying for your god.
I put them in the same catagory as I do people who believe in aliens, big foot, and psychics. The only problem is that most of those believers arn't interested in pushing their agenda into schools, starting wars over aliens, or killing minority groups. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 6/29/2007 7:33:29 AM | Thanks for digging this up kaagwaantaan. I do have a hard time when people make blanket statements about those who believe in God, when they assume an air of superiority over those who have religious faith, when they preach about how much more meaningful and more authentic life becomes when one lets go of the existence of God, when they claim that any person who is religious hasn't put any or much thought into it and must have arrived at their position by being uncritical and unquestioning. I find their attitude just as unreasonable and evangelical and intrusive and disrespectful as those who foist their religion on others and insist that people should believe in God. I think they indulge in unfounded assumptions. I think they give free reign to their emotional bias. I think they are being simplistic.
I'm fascinated by religions and I always have been. I dabble with faith and belief. I create gods, I research science and history and religions, I make up creation myths and write expository essays on why we all do what we do. All of those are exercise for my mind and sometimes the products contribute to my life and the lives of others. Most of the time, though, what I operate from spiritually is that consciousness itself is creativity and as a result my consciousness, my thoughts, my imaginings, my beliefs and my fears are all contributors to the unfolding of creation. I am not a passive observer. I am a co-creator. So I must be cautious in what I imagine and what I put forth and what I say for somewhere somehow I just might be forging a reality I would find unpleasant. (For example, once after watching a particularly violent horror movie I said to a friend of mine, "I hate this stuff"... "Aw, it's JUST a movie" was her response. "Yeah but, if someone can imagine it, it can happen, and THAT scares me." You see? I even take responsibility for the universe and demand that film makers do too!) So it's not that I "trust" we are all connected or that there is a magnificent mind at the top of the experiential heap, more that sometimes I participate in creating that.
Mine is just one of many, many, many different religious/spiritual positions. It's sloppy thinking to group them all under one label of "good" "bad" "stupid" "intelligent" "reasonable" "unreasonable" "dangerous" "safe" or whatever generalization someone wants to make about religion. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 6/29/2007 8:20:53 AM | So in other words, thoughts are things. Things that can enhance or destroy our existence. I'll go with that.
The thing is, on the whole, people do believe their faith/non faith is superior, despite rational evidence to the contrary. And it is just human nature to argue. I am probably the worst here when I see certain faiths promoted as the absolute truth. It just makes me shake my head. The arrogance.
Guess I'm not all that enlightened at all, for surely if I were, I'd just be happy that people are people. But for any faith to promote with certainty that they are the only ones who the Creator deems worthy to nurture just makes me cringe. It is very hard to be respectful of this sort of ideology.
Need to work on tolerance more I see.......
Cheers, Raven | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 6/29/2007 10:57:29 AM | It should come as no surprise that the threads on religion and politics here get a little heated at times. I think that people on POF generally respect statements and opinions backed up with evidence and solid reasoning. If not that, then at least an opinion given in humility. If those things are lacking, that person will be called on it, and I don't have a problem with that. POF is not a mutual admiration society for a particular belief system. Some post as if it is and get shocked and annoyed when they meet resistance. Of course, some are merely trolls whom should not be "fed." Here is an example of a statement that shows humility and respect and one that does not:
"I take it on faith that Jesus is my lord."
"Jesus is Lord, whether you realize it or not."
Which statement will get respect in return, and which one will not? The second statement would meet with cheers and hearty agreement on an exclusively Christian site; this isn't one of those sites. In fact, claims to "exclusivity of truth" are prohibited on this site.
Funny story: awhile back, there was a thread on religious tolerance, and it was a very well-meaning (humble and respectful) thread. It didn't take long to turn very ugly. One poster said she believed everyone would end up in heaven. Another poster showed disrespect for that belief and claimed it was not respectful or tolerant. I came to the defense of the "universalist" poster (who never posted again), and it turned into sort of a gang war between various posters. People started arguing about what did and did not constitute true tolerance and whether intolerance should be tolerated or not. I was even accused of bigotry before I got fed up and bowed out of the thread completely in frustration with my apologies to the OP (who was not involved in the argument). It was ugly, ugly, ugly. How ironic and telling about the issues of tolerance, respect, and religion... | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 6/29/2007 2:02:36 PM |
Mine is just one of many, many, many different religious/spiritual positions. It's sloppy thinking to group them all under one label of "good" "bad" "stupid" "intelligent" "reasonable" "unreasonable" "dangerous" "safe" or whatever generalization someone wants to make about religion.
The essence of religion as I understand it is the freezing of creative thought vis a vis a particular set of beliefs, after which there can be very little of the creativity of which you speak. In its place one gets ritual, orthodoxy, the theological parsing of this word or that, this phrase or that. If the essence of life is change and growth, then religion is the enemy of life. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 6/29/2007 11:16:13 PM |
The essence of religion as I understand it is the freezing of creative thought vis a vis a particular set of beliefs, after which there can be very little of the creativity of which you speak. In its place one gets ritual, orthodoxy, the theological parsing of this word or that, this phrase or that.
That hasn't been my experience at all. The field of theology just isn't that narrow. Some religions actually encourage creativity and thrive on things like storytelling. I took my ideas about co-creation from various readings of Catholic mystics and different Native American religions, for instance.
If the essence of life is change and growth, then religion is the enemy of life.
It's these kind of statements that I find ridiculous. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 6/30/2007 6:51:42 AM | | I try not to judge people no matter their beliefs, most people simply believe the way they were raised to believe. It can be difficult to do that at times though, when you see and hear such hypocrisy. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/4/2007 10:36:01 PM | I think the most basic spiritual principle is to be considerate of other people.
I THINK it's amazing the way sometimes people preach and teach about all these big SPIRITUAL concepts.........AND THEN ACT like **stards. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/8/2007 9:03:21 PM |
I'm curious to know how many here respect others beliefs, even when they differ from your own and how many think that all religious people are brainwashed idiots or all spiritual people are self-deluded egoists. How many people casually apply some blanket derogatory statement to all people in a religious or a spiritual community?
If I am understanding your question properly ?
Then I'd say I respect other peoples beliefs .
I don't mind them sharing theirs with me as long as ;
They tell me what they believe and don't get mad if I disagree .
I would rather not judge anyones religious beliefs .
The Bible says work out your own salvation and thats what I do .
I tell people what I believe if they ask me .   | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/8/2007 9:15:54 PM | I'm curious to know how many here respect others beliefs, even when they differ from your own
For myself personally yes I do, for me it is something that is a part of my everyday life. It is who i am in all aspects of my beliefs, decisions, morals, ethics, values and my philosophy. So for someone to not be that way to me is to basically be very insulting and disrespectful to me as a human being in general. While I know for some that there's is not this way I give others what I can hope that someday all can do for me. I firmly believe in each to their own...I think it would be a much happier, more harmonious world if everybody could accept poeple for their belief system instead of converting, condeming, criticizing and being all around hateful/cruel/diragotory(sp) and mean about it.
how many think that all religious people are brainwashed
I think some are, but I will not call them idiots. I think that is calling them a dirrogatory (sp) name that is uncalled for. While others might hold that thought of mine I would hope they would give me the same respect as a human being to not call me an idiot for I am not and most people on this planet are not. Some are ignorant, and that is not someone that is an idiot or stupid, that is someone who is lacking knowledge on a certain topic/idiology or any type of education, etc. That is not something to be ashamed of by any means; it is unfortunate in some cases but it is not their fault in most cases.
all spiritual people are self-deluded egoists.
OK..had to look up egoist here:
One devoted to one's own interests and advancement; A conceited, self-centered person; a self-centered person with little regard for others; someone with a philosophical self-involvement amounting to egoism (who may or may not be an egotist, i.e. a person with the trait of selfishness
I think in some ways this does apply, I know for myself this One devoted to one's own interests and advancement; A conceited person does fit me. I do make it a point to better myself but not to be better than others or look down others. I do not have this "I am better than you" outlook whatsoever. I do however tend to come off as concieted. Because I have always been book/learning and overall street smart I do tend to be conceited in some things because I know more. I am constantly seeking knowledge. I try not to be, but alas I am not perfect and sometimes it gets the better of me...this post is going to be a perfectly good example of that I think. 
How many people casually apply some blanket derogatory statement to all people in a religious or a spiritual community?
I do sometimes but I try not too. It goes to experience from bad and good. I know I get it; hence the bad and I have many sweet and loving Christian friends that love me and adore me for who I am knowing full well the depths of my beliefs as far as they can grasp them anyways. They know my morals and ethics and know me enough to know I am a good person so what I believe does not bother them; that is a big factor in helping me look past the bashing/twisting/hate/anger/and overall negativity I take from people in my life and from other posters . So I see it in others, I get it and am sometimes guilty of thinking of it. I do my best to squash it though and rethink it when I know I am going down that path because of how I have been done...I do not want others to feel the way I have; it is utterly horrible. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/9/2007 6:47:20 PM |
I'm curious to know how many here respect others beliefs, even when they differ from your own
We can learn from all beliefs... Every belief is different than your own in some way...
As long as no one claims a superior belief than anyone else, I'm good... We all have insight that we all can benefit from.
how many think that all religious people are brainwashed idiots or all spiritual people are self-deluded egoists.
There are some of both, I'm sure... I would never use such a generalisation tho... It takes all kinds...
How many people casually apply some blanket derogatory statement to all people in a religious or a spiritual community?
Quite a few... A handful from each community is guilty of that... Instead of examining the differences, some would go as far as to call them dangerous... That's crazy talk. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/9/2007 7:48:36 PM | I am sincerely respectful of the beliefs of others, ESPECIALLY when they disagree with mine. My spiritual path is the right one for me, just as they feel theirs is for them. Who am "I" to question their beliefs?
My dearest friend is a devout Christian and rather fundamentalist ...we have conflicting beliefs. I do not practice organized religion. My beliefs lack a defined deity, and lean heavily toward Buddhism. She will, on occasion, with the help of her husband, try to convert me. Sometimes we get into serious debate! I have told her that I wish she would accept and respect my beliefs as I do hers. Her response: "I love you and my beliefs require that I try to "save" you, because if you do not "believe" you will go to hell. When I tell her that I don't believe in heaven and hell, she counters with: "But "I" do"! She is passionate in her beliefs and I respect that even though I don't agree. She does her best to respect mine even though they conflict greatly with hers in some ways. Although I've no problem debating with others, I will quickly end the same sort of conversation with someone I do not know, if the pursuit to convert gets to be too much. I am quite "tolerant".
We have been friends for over 20 yrs and still going strong.
I have met individuals from many different "faiths" (including those with beliefs similar to mine) who, rub me the wrong way, but I walk my own path and respect others' choice to walk a different one.  | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/9/2007 8:25:13 PM | Tolerance like religion is learned. It is unfortunate that religion is taught in a home where tolerance is not, and that tolerance is talked in other homes but not practiced.
To me ones beliefs are a personal thing. For this reason I always feel privileged when others are willing to discuss their beliefs, without trying to convince. This also includes fielding questions that those discussing might ask. Even if they tend to be in conflict with one's belief. This is a great learning process for all.
There are times when the word truth gets in the way of the whole process. It is better to explain why your feel something is a truth rather than to challenge another's understanding of the same truth. This is tolerance in action.
If we can discuss religion and one's beliefs with tolerance, than we can discuss the laws of this land that extend the rights of every individual, also with tolerance and in deference to one's own religious beliefs.
To make it that far, will be a great accomplishment and the fulfillment of a free society. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/9/2007 8:58:31 PM | The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. ~Friedrich Nietzsche
truer words were never spoken. | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/9/2007 10:24:56 PM |
I'm curious to know how many here respect others beliefs, even when they differ from your own and how many think that all religious people are brainwashed idiots or all spiritual people are self-deluded egoists. How many people casually apply some blanket derogatory statement to all people in a religious or a spiritual community? Excellent post!
My path began as an atheist, progressed to agnosticm and I have now been on a spiritual path for many years... I have experienced a great deal of judgment, mostly by christians.. telling me I will go to HELL, that I am a devil worshipper, not allowing their kids to play with my kids and also telling my daughters that they will go to HELL, I have also been refused a job because I did not lie and pretend I was christain.. I could go on, but I think you get the point..
Or do you? It probably sounds as though I was about to begin a tirade against all christians, and at one time that would have been true... but all christians are NOT that way, and I have learned many things in this life... one of them is that if you fight intolerance with intolerance, you only perpetuate the same. IMO ignorance and intolerance are inextricably linked, so in that sense the only antidote is to have an open mind and to seek understanding...
I have respect for what everyone believes or doesn't believe, for we are all linked by our ability to choose for ourselves... choices that we each live with the consequences of regardless of anyone's jugdment. Ultimately none of us will ever know until we die, so whatever choice of belief (or non-belief) gives us peace in this life is fine by me... I don't just say these things, I live by that sentiment.
Tolerance like religion is learned. It is unfortunate that religion is taught in a home where tolerance is not, and that tolerance is talked in other homes but not practiced. I know that while I am not above reproach.. that is definately not true of my home. I do teach tolerance to my children and dis-allow ANY form of prejudism...
My belief system is not defined by whether others agree or disagree with me, for my beliefs are mine. It took a great many years to develop them, so I enjoy the exercise of exposing my beliefs to those of others, for mine grow and evlove in the process...
So my long winded response is yes, I do have respect for other's views... even when those others do not respect mine, for I enjoy the challenge.. all of it enriches me and furthers my evolution :) | |
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| Respect for spiritual and religious beliefs
Posted: 7/9/2007 11:11:58 PM | | My problem is I have no respect for faith or self deception, those two things combined make it difficult to take religious beliefs seriously. Especially when people trumpet them as if other people should be in awe of somebody being christian in north america. | |
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