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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/17/2009 5:42:47 PM |
so which is it. did this person have an organ or not? your story is a tad contradictive here
No, it wasn't contradictory. As I stated, born without, doctors made the baby a penis (it is after all just tissue) and then when he had a sex change to make him into a woman, the penis was formed into a vagina somehow. I'm sure there were other details (like no womb, not sure about testicles etc, most likely could not have produced as either a man or a woman if internal parts were missing) but that's all I know.
once again , this thread isnt about transexuality and its relevance , its about us footing thre bill for cosmetic surgery
And about the reasons some of us believe the bill should be covered, which means explaining our reasons. So, yes it is on topic. | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/17/2009 5:43:20 PM | i agree @ grey , the people born WITHOUT genitalia, yes ,their surgery should be 100% covered by ahc. noone holds genuine people who are or were seemingly born without genitals or natural appendages as any form of a drag on the taxpayers money.
that wouldnt be elective surgery, it would therefore be termed a necessity of life.
however, cheries example was a little bit contradictive,one moment this" friend" had absolutely no genitals, the next minute apparently thi person had practiced natural sex with a partner,prior to the operation................. so which is it?
But it's not a chosen disorder
ok ,lets pretend its not chosen, however , its the lot life gave them. just like the rest of us
sure there are drawbacks to being male , and drawbacks to being female. that doesnt mean ya can just chop off your genitals and join the other team tho . well you can , however i for one dont wanna foot the bill for self mutilation
Theories suggest it is caused by ........................ blah blah blah
hmm theories eh , well damn , that must mean its a fact. NOT
theory is another word for , "our guess is"
actually, after the word theory appeared in your comment,the rest was irrelevant
People with this disorder often can't lead normal lives, commit suicide
well wahh , so do perfectly normal people i dont see anyone coughing up money to discover what it is that ails them tho
Apologies for bringing facts into a Q&A forum.
what q and a did you bring? all i see is conjecture and more words from even more confused people you are quoting. not one answer was revealed. merely theory which isnt fact.
But it's not a chosen disorder once again , back up the claim with actual proof rather than heresay by people prepared to profit by mutilating these people
if its a mental disorder as was earlier stated, then body mutilation will only harm them further.
Could it be that men who overreact to anything to do with anything other than heterosexuality or anything that involves the penis (sex changes, being gay, etc) could be a little homophobic?
now here we go , the "if you dont accept everything, you must be gay" moronic comment,i think we were all waiting for this thread to turn to become a homosexual rights thread and there we have it
for one thing mon, transexthings, arent necessarily homos , which makes your attempt to insult people merely a weak attempt to win an arguement by use of easily "overused" comment
could it possibly mean , that we as a society shouldnt coddle up and cough up our tax dollars for each and every group that wants to be " wierd"
what ever happened to " if you want something.... go to work ,earn the money and then pay for it your bloody self? where did all these parasites come from that just expect society to cough up and pay for their whims?its bad enough our tax money goes towards pushing xmas and easter and all that other stuff on us all regardless if we want it or not,
in case you dont realize it , we are in the midst of a depression, | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/17/2009 5:55:43 PM | trubblemakr
[now here we go , the "if you dont accept everything, you must be gay" moronic comment,i think we were all waiting for this thread to turn to become a homosexual rights thread and there we have it]
Get with the program trubble..lol..... the operative word is "homophobic" kind of like being a racist.....It is the easiest moniker to slap on you when the debate takes a turn south, and further dialogue is non-existent.. | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/17/2009 6:00:48 PM |
they are not going to die if they do not have the surgery, they can live a 'normal' life without the surgery.
I would not presume that someone can live a 'normal' life unless I have walked in their shoes. Personally, I can't see how that could be a 'normal' life. What exactly do you consider a 'normal' life? As far as the 'not going to die' comment. Are babies born with deformities of other kinds or people who get in accidents and lose limbs also lumped into this way of thinking? Or should they be covered to have prostheses or corrective surgery for deformities to make their lives easier?
what ever happened to " if you want something.... go to work ,earn the money and then pay for it your bloody self?
That's fine so long as it applies to everyone for every other medical expense. You once again are basing this on it being cosmetic, when it is a proven medical condition.
for one thing mon, transexthings, arent necessarily homos , which makes your attempt to insult people merely a weak attempt to win an arguement by use of easily "overused" comment
 That final comment was not intended to defend the argument. The point was that people overreact as soon as something involves sex organs and it's usually the macho redneck he-man types who fear that someone might think they are gay if they defend gay rights or have gay friends or be compassionate to someone in this kind of situation. | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/17/2009 6:22:42 PM | or.some people seek to silence the people with actual real ideas rather than limping on by using bs examples and pretend "theories" then trying to wash over reality with " you must be gay if you dont like gays" ridiculous comments
personally i couldnt care less about homosexuals.its a lifestyle choice they make for themselves, and , since i dont flaunt my sexual activities in public , i expect the same type of respect from other sexually active individuals, regardless if they have sex with members of the same or opposite sex or if they pump chickens and goats.
i must say though mon, that was a pretty lame attempt at an insult, trying to call into a persons sexuality because they dont agree with paying for a wackos self disfigurement.
maybe give your a head a shake before trying to do it next time
You once again are basing this on it being cosmetic, when it is a proven medical condition.
i seeyour making up medical stuff again , it isnt a PROVEN medical condition at all . its a PROVEN mental condition.self mutilation isnt the brainiest way to help someone who is mentally ill, what the heck kinda medical books are you reading where it states that the removal of genitals will fix anything whatsoever?
is there a problem with you reading what i wrote ages ago ? since you keep trying to forcefeed us that bs about medical .....blah . blah .blah .... and how chopping off the weener actually heals these mentally ill people.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1375429
http://www.parakaleo.co.uk/article9.html
Some critics are even going as far as to say that psychiatrists have not, in fact, ‘discovered’ transsexuals but created them. That is, that once ‘transsexual’ and ‘gender-identity disorder’ (GID) became common currency more people began interpreting their experience in these terms. | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/17/2009 8:34:11 PM | **Disclaimer.....I'm not picking on anybody, just disagreeing. No tears necessary.** You guys keep ranting on about how it's an elective surgery and it's a mental illness as if that's a valid basis for not funding under ahc. Lots of the surgeries and procedures that are covered are also elective and lots are related to mental illness.
"they are not going to die if they do not have the surgery, they can live a 'normal' life without the surgery. They can have sex, they can get married, they can have children."
Based on this theory, people with cataracts, arthritic hips, blown knees, schizophrenia, depression, cleft palates, outie belly buttons, arms growing from the sides of their heads, etc etc, could also get married and have kids and lead "normal" lives so there should be no basis for their funding either.
Wait! Stop typing! I know what you're going to say! People with cataracts can't see so of course they should get the surgery! People with extra arms obviously need the surgery because they have an arm growing out from the side of their head! People with buggered up hips can't walk so they need a replacement! But what you're really saying is that the defect in gender identity disorder patients is latent, not obvious, not as plain as the arm on your head, so therefore it doesn't exist. But if you're not a doctor, a patient with the disorder or a researcher developing the state of the art in this field, you're completely outside the scope of your expertise. I'm none of those things but I do know that every day most people don't wake up and have to make a choice about their sexuality. Like maybe today I'll turn myself into a woman. I think I'll go through twenty or thirty operations, several years of hormone therapies and counseling and then alienate my family and friends 'cause it'd be fun. Just like we don't make the choice to be whatever sexual orientation we are. If transgendered people can decide to get married and have kids then every heterosexual person should be able to have a great and completely satisfying homosexual relationship.
A theory is something that can't be repeated in a controlled setting. There are many theories that we accept as true for example, just about everything astrological, eclipses, evolution, gravity, psychotherapy, etc etc.
And Trubble, don't bother with any external examples because....
"and your so called information isnt yours, its as you said wilkipedias, so its even more moot."
I'd rather fund a few sex changes than provide a handful of two hundred dollar a pop Asprins for every emergency room junkie with the flu. | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/17/2009 9:05:00 PM | I'd much rather see our precious health dollars going to help people who have health issues that are more serious. Cancer, MS, etc.
There are people fighting for their lives that need every dollar they can get.
In better times, where everyone is a bit richer, then some of these 'alternative' surgeries should be covered, as I am sure everyone is paying taxes.
In leaner times, we need to focus all our health tax dollars to keeping people alive.
IMO, anyway! | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/17/2009 11:07:06 PM | | this could drive guys to stay single...is hard enough to find a good lady..but to think she might have been a guy.......yuk | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 5:26:24 AM | funny how the same people that defend this sort of manipulation havent ever "dated a transexual. or perhaps omg do you have a story about how you date these people?
imo , its false advertising.and fo the taxpayers to fund this type of thing goes against what taxxes are suposedly being paid for.
omg you can choose to hilight any number of surgeries
People with cataracts
do you truly know how ridiculous you sound, using cataract surgery as an example?
sure these people could live semi comfortable lives being legally BLIND however. the surgery is usually paid for by the individual , regardless of a portion of it being paid thru hc.
not a reasonable example , i think its quite obvious why it isnt
arthritic hips
are you for real?
blown knees, schizophrenia, depression, cleft palates, outie belly buttons, arms growing from the sides of their heads, etc etc, could also get married and have kids and lead "normal" lives so there should be no basis for their funding either
you seriously need a refresher course in reality. how do you live a normallife with a blown out kneecap? my neighbors little girl has one, the poor 8 yr old is in pain 24/7
not some mentally ill pain , but real pain from this type of injury.
as far as schizophrenia depression etc etc ,tho are mental illnesses, so accidentally, you included similiar illnesses to transexualism
as my earlier urls stated quite plainly that this" disorder" isnt a health issue, its a mental issue
and as numerous people have stated time and again, it should be taken care of via counselling ,not surgery
with your rationale,we should be performing lobotamies on schizophrenics
are you perhaps a proponent for eugenics as well?
A theory is something that can't be repeated in a controlled setting. There are many theories that we accept as true for example, just about everything astrological, eclipses, evolution, gravity, psychotherapy, etc etc.
or like i stated a theory is a GUESS nothing more, there is no way to back it up , it could jut be a random occurance in nature (like evolution)that some quack latched onto to look like he had a brain at one time and now he wants to cash in on what he thinks hes discovered.
a theory is something we witnessed but never saw happen again,
a random occurance with a random explanation none of which are provable. so stop trying to tell us that sex change operations are necessary due to the fact that it is a PROVEN DISORDER, because it isnt. just like homosexuality has never ever been PROVEN to be a disorder from birth , however it has been proven to be a learned behaviour .
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 6:20:08 AM | Sometimes I'm actually glad you can't understand what anyone else is saying 'cause it proves the point almost exactly....
"how do you live a normallife with a blown out kneecap? my neighbors little girl has one, the poor 8 yr old is in pain 24/7"
Precisely my point. Let her suffer!!! Just switch "a blown kneecap" with gender identity disorder and the fundamental understanding that you have no idea what the symptoms of the disorder are, and eureka, you've got it.
"sure these people could live semi comfortable lives being legally BLIND however. the surgery is usually paid for by the individual , regardless of a portion of it being paid thru hc."
Yes! Just substitute gender dysphoria for legally blind and you've hit the nail on the head. I already told you not to bother with these arguments. And ahc pays for a certain number of surgeries per year. If you want yours paid for you have to wait a long time so most people pay privately to get it. This may be different now as things are changing all the time.
"and as numerous people have stated time and again, it should be taken care of via counselling ,not surgery with your rationale,we should be performing lobotamies on schizophrenics"
First, schizophrenia can't be treated with counseling alone. There are several drug therapies that work really well. If there were a surgical procedure that cured schizophrenia, or all the symptoms of it, of course no one would deny such a procedure to someone so obviously afflicted. But there isn't; just like there isn't a prescription drug that cures gender identity disorder. So until I know more than the current commonly held knowledge in the field, I'm not going to go against that knowledge and suggest that it's just a case of people being "weird". I'm also not saying that this is something we all should pay for when, as equip_girl said better than me, there are probably more serious issues and only a limited amount of money.
"funny how the same people that defend this sort of manipulation havent ever "dated a transexual. or perhaps omg do you have a story about how you date these people?"
Why tf would dating a transgendered person be a requirement? Oh wait...are you teasing me? I get it....like I'm so in love with transgendered people! Just like in grade two when I had to stay after class and the next day everybody said I was in love with Miss Schmit. Gotcha.
"as my earlier urls stated quite plainly that this" disorder" isnt a health issue, its a mental issue"
No url's! Uninformed opinions only!
"a theory is something we witnessed but never saw happen again,"
Riiiight. Like evolution? You've just got to explain that statement to me.
"homosexuality has never ever been PROVEN to be a disorder from birth , however it has been proven to be a learned behaviour ."
So then you'd have no problem taking a few gay classes and heading down to the local gay bar to pick up some guys for a night? Be careful, if you start thinking about it too much you might accidentally learn the behavior. Baseball Baseball Baseball....Hot Chick Hot Chicks!! Phew, close one. | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 6:33:37 AM | as my earlier urls stated quite plainly that this" disorder" isnt a health issue, its a mental issue
Since when is mental health not part of the overall health of an individual? Since when does a mental health issue not affect the whole person? Your view of human health is very narrow; not treating mental health issues puts a great burden on the whole health care system (see the large spike in homelessness and its associated health issues after Ralph Klien and his cronies cut health care budgets in the 90's - hundreds if not thousands of people no longer being cared for by the government, but at least there was smaller deficit).
funny how the same people that defend this sort of manipulation havent ever "dated a transexual. or perhaps omg do you have a story about how you date these people? How bloody many transgendered people do you think there are????
That's the funny thing. It's as though those against the procedure being covered by AHC think that there are thousands of people lined up waiting to have gender reassignment surgery. Not the case. And it's also not a case of 'whacking ones genitals off' either. Surgery is the last step in a very long process that includes careful evaluation of whether an individual is truly transgendered. It's not like getting an elective form of cosmetic surgery where there is little evaluation of the patient's mental state; that form of surgery is dictated by the size of the pocket book.
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 7:44:55 AM |
funny how the same people that defend this sort of manipulation havent ever "dated a transexual. or perhaps omg do you have a story about how you date these people?
You may have already dated one and even had sex with a transexual and not known it trubble.
Once a transexual has changed sex, they can change their ID and even their birth certificate to say they are the other sex so how would you know unless they told you they used to be another sex? Like I said in my earlier post my friend had the birth certificate and all ID changed and also a name change - all legal. She is now a woman and she even slept with men. She was conscientious enough to tell the men before hand that she used to be a man but how do you know everyone would do that? She is now in a monogomous relationship with a man. He knows her past. | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 10:20:31 AM |
So until I know more than the current commonly held knowledge in the field, I'm not going to go against that knowledge and suggest that it's just a case of people being "weird".
That seems reasonable. I do the same as it seems like the most intelligent thing to do, to first consider how much you know about a particular subject. However, I'm not surprised how many posting here are doing just that (accusing transgendered people of just wanting to be weird) wow.
I'm also not saying that this is something we all should pay for when, as equip_girl said better than me, there are probably more serious issues and only a limited amount of money.
Good on equip girl, she actually just answered the question, whether or not AHC should pay. I'm not sure myself. I know there are several things covered that seem less crucial than GRS and several not covered, that would seem more so (Like chiropractic for me personally. lol)
As someone pointed out, it's not like there are thousands lined up to get a sex change. $700,000. per year for these life-saving surgeries doesn't seem like much. I don't know how much chiropractic care comes to but it won't be a good trade off if those people take their needs to the family doctor instead. | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 12:32:35 PM | Got bored and read trubble's url articles because they're usually pretty funny and I don't want to be ignorant of the other side of the picture. Article number one, a woman gets a sex change and is unhappy and regretful. She went to a clinic of somekind, got forty five minutes of counseling, was operated on right away and now she's wishing she hadn't done it. Therefore sexual identity disorder is all made up by doctors who want to cash in. (sarcasm)
Sounds like a stretch to me. Here's what one doctor in the article said...
"I will prescribe hormones and expect them to live as a woman (or a man, if it is a female-to-male patient) for at least a year. If, after that time, they are mentally stable, living a reasonable and public life and functioning as a whole human being, and if the hormones have been effective, I would consider them worthy of surgery."
So it's not so much the validity of the operation but the process it takes to get to the operation. Of course the whole thing is lacking integrity if the proper procedures are not follwed, but this article in no way suggests that this is the case 100% of the time. Actually the article says that about 20% of people regret the decision to get a sex change. So I'd say we should at least regulate the surgeries if not fund them so this sort of nonsense doesn't happen.
But article number two really makes me wonder if you just read the titles "Mutilation, Deception and Sex Changes"...sounds like it should back up your point. But the very first sentences says...
"The paper considers and rejects two arguments against the performance of sexual reassignment surgeries. First it argues that the operation is not mutilating, but funcionally enabling. Second it is argued that the operation is not objectionably deceptive,"
Anyway, long article, lots of thought in it. I'm positive you didn't read it. In short, it makes me think that we should cover these surgeries after the appropriate counseling and hormone therapies so that people aren't encouraged to live a "normal" life and have kids when they are really just hiding their true identity. How deceptive is it to kids when their mom turns into a man? The whole "gender identity disorder patients can get married and have a normal life" seems way more wrong, actually bordering on evil, now than it did before. Here's a great bottom line from the conclusion of the article...
"Sex can't be known on the basis of readily observable physical features."
I think that sums up my point completely, trub. Thanks for doing the research. | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 1:42:51 PM | I really agree with you OMG, especially the part where one poster said that they should get married and have a normal life. To expect that is cruelty in my opinion.
Thanks for the information.
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 3:27:42 PM |
I will prescribe hormones and expect them to live as a woman (or a man, if it is a female-to-male patient) for at least a year. If, after that time, they are mentally stable, living a reasonable and public life and functioning as a whole human being, and if the hormones have been effective, I would consider them worthy of surgery.
That's exactly my point. Gender reassignment isn't like a nose job at all. There are years of both physical and mental therapies that have to be done before the surgery takes place. Surgery is the last step in a very long process - you can't just show up at a plastic surgeon and demand to have your gender changed. | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 4:41:23 PM | well i dont really know what exactly it is you think ive proven for you. after all nothing you have said changed or even shook my opinion that these wackos self mutilation shouldnt be covered by ahc.
so cackle away,i dont see a single person changing their opinions based upon your ridiculous statements.
so what exactly is it you "think" you have proven?
So then you'd have no problem taking a few gay classes and heading down to the local gay bar to pick up some guys for a night?
no omg im not going cruising for men with you , thanks for the invite but i dont swing that way, enjoy your trip tho
btw , learn to quote appropriately , for a second there i thought you were smart
substitute gender dysphoria for legally blind
why ? what similarity does one have with the other? blindness is a fact and a proven condition. people that want to swap sexxes is just a biproduct of a mentally ill individual. they will do quite well with the organs they were born with. if the organ was damaged or it was disfigured, different story again. however removing a perfectly functioning organ in order to appease a twisted mind is just as stupid as the taxpayer having to foot the bill for someones twisted whims..
why try to quote things, and then not explain the reason behind it? personally i think a few of you have homo issues, since this isnt about someones sexuality, its interesting how a few have tried to turn this debate into a gay rights thread .
Since when is mental health not part of the overall health of an individual? Since when does a mental health issue not affect the whole person?
hence the comment stating that mental health issues, should be taken care of by people practiced in helping MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, not surgeons
as far as the allegation by the wierdo saying" you may have had sex with one" well i dont think so , most of them sex changers are pretty easily picked out of a crowd, especially if one got one {eww} nakid. im quite sure there would be some pretty severe scars from getting your weener chopped off and i doubt one could hide it too well
plus thank you very much ,but im not that much of a slut that i just jump anyone .
thanks for the implication tho , its pretty rude tho for you to assume someone you dont even know is a slut. usually i found that the people that accuse others , are they themselves the ones guilty of the crime that they accuse others of.
however you can make the whole thread about homosexuals if you so choose. it still doesnt put any more credence that these people are merely mental patients in need of a clinic and proper psychiatry services or perhaps a few jolts of the old ect machine, whereby you opt to enable their freakish whims and if so, then cough up the cash yourself and help pay for these sick operations | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 5:18:36 PM |
hence the comment stating that mental health issues, should be taken care of by people practiced in helping MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, not surgeons
If you had actually read some of the stuff posted by others and you own urls you'd have learned that transgendered people do in fact go through extensive counseling. Extensive. This change is never just done on a whim. So that kind of blows the whole mental health treatment out of the water since the last time I checked counselors are there to help the mentally ill. That however is if these people we in fact mentally ill and not born in the wrong bodies.
I have known a couple trangendered people and I cannot see why anyone would pick such a difficult life. They have gone through so much ridicule from others much like trubble. They don't understand transgendered people so they poke fun instead. Call them freaks and weirdos. Who would chose that???? Seriously. They just want to live a normal life in the right body for them which unfortunately is not the one they were born with.
I am all for the surgeries being covered. It's not like its even millions a year. Its less than a mil. There are way more things taxing the health system, but being that most people don't understand transgendered people and what they are going through the Alberta/redneck government knows there probably will not be much of a protest in this province. | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 5:44:20 PM |
and not born in the wrong bodies according to what crackpots ideas are they"born into the wrong bodies"
what the he77 does that even mean? how can you be born into the wrong body anyways? were there twins and one was a male the other a female, and somehow the mothers body mixxed em up?
as far as your friends being ridiculed by people like me? where do you get off?i never once ridiculed anyone , i merely stated my reasons for not wanting to foot the bill for this freakish surgery
They just want to live a normal life in the right body for them which unfortunately is not the one they were born with.
they want? ooooh hold the bus then, its what they WANT omg , well . on that note. i wanna be a 6 ft 4 blonde hardbodied male swimsuit model with a 18 inch weener and northern lights wants a set of giant hooters
think i can put my wishlist in after the guy that wants a weener chooping surgery??
all the moot arguements defending and explaing transexuals is irrelevant ,
how come all you proponents and sympathizers dont open up a bank account and raise money to actually pay for these ppls surgeries instead of expecting the ones who actually tend to think healthcare shouldnt be offered on a WANT basis, but a NEED basis
there are genuinely sick people that could use the treatment being wasted on these mentally ill people
Alberta/redneck
thats it, use insults , that makes your arguement really mean all the more.
cannot see why anyone would pick such a difficult life
ohh so because YOU cant see.that means its genuine. how bout attention seekers? i cant understand why people would cut lines in their flesh with razors, but it happens, and you know why? because it gets them attention
kinda like gay pride parades. it gets them attention
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 6:55:26 PM | "so what exactly is it you "think" you have proven?
Okay, I'll try to summarize this in eight points for you. First, I've proven that you're completely ignorant of the complexity of gender when in your first post when you said that all you have to do to figure out your gender is look between your legs.
Second, I've proven that the surgery is not in any way akin to vanity or cosmetic surgery, the mental issues involved with cosmetic surgery are totally different.....actually that's one of the things your own article proved beyond any shadow of a doubt. You should read it.
Third, I've proven that in the big hard world we live in, there are other strange disorders such as Apotemnophilia and the treatment of which also suggests that NOT removing a perfectly functioning organ is actually a form of cruelty. Point here is that there really is so much you and I don't know that to suggest gender identity disorder doesn't exist because all ya gotta do is look between your legs is complete ignorance.
Three and a half, and this is related to the last point hence the half, when you have no concept of something besides your own "opinions" you should probably at least try to see things from both sides.
Fourth, gender dysphoria can't be treated with counseling alone or medication. Proven word for word in your article, but common sense would also suggest that any behavior could be altered, but this doesn't mean you've cured the behavior. Like when Christians used to open those clinics that trained gay people to be straight through counseling. They're still gay, they just deal with the misery of pretending to be straight better. If surgery is a cure, why not do surgery?
Fifth, theories are not defined as something someone saw once.
Sixth, I've proven...well, your articles have proven, that becoming transgendered isn't a product of mental illness alone. Lots of depressed, anxious, schizophrenic people do not wish to become trangendered. If you'd read your own lit, you'd be aware of this.
Seventh, all doctors involved with gender disorders are not all colluding and conspiring to get people into the sex change process so they can make a greater profit. Again, your article, not mine.
Eight, I'm hoping that I've proven that the reason people are so committed to not funding this surgery is that it's perceived as weird, creepy, unnatural, and homosexual in nature. And that's still one of those things that goes..."I ain't spendin' none a my money on them wackos" rather than figuring out if there is any actual justification there. I've obviously failed in all these things because...
"after all nothing you have said changed or even shook my opinion that these wackos self mutilation shouldnt be covered by ahc."
Chill. No one would ever accuse you of changing your opinions, participating in reality or learning anything.
"no omg im not going cruising for men with you , thanks for the invite but i dont swing that way, enjoy your trip tho"
I know you are but what am I. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but people with absolutely no hang ups, qualms, issues etc with gay people usually have nothing to say about them. I've never ever in my life had to tell someone that I don't have a problem with gay people just as long as they stay the hell away from me. What then exactly is your issue with homosexuality? Why do you have to say that transitioning people are wackos? It makes you so uncomfortable and in this day and age, that is very unusual for most normal people. It's just weird that's all. I mean, I'm a little creeped out by Pin the Tail on the Donkey, sushi and especially coconuts. But I will never get to the point where I have to run away from a Hawaiian themed birthday party for a seven year old Japanese kid.
"btw , learn to quote appropriately , for a second there i thought you were smart"
I know!! I've always wanted to be able to put the little jewel boxes around other people's quotes. Please tell me the secret. Someone. But it's so ironic in that you've actually misquoted, or misread or actually not read your own articles but yet I need to learn how to put the little boxes around my quotes. That's irony.
I've read just about every kind of freshman/sophomore writing assignment there has ever been but I've never caught someone siting a source when they had read exactly and only the title of the article. That is actually a new one. What would the make up assignment be on that one?
So all arguments are moot and irrelevant? Please, take some time, gather your senses and explain exactly what your point is. If you can't even understand the statement common to all transgendered people that they are living in or trapped in the wrong body then you really have no concept of what they're going through. Do you? | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 7:01:19 PM | umm what exactly passes as chastisement in your home?i dont think i chastised him , i merely stated that if hes going to quote someone,at least do it the right way , like the rest of us have, otherwise its a tad hard to read his response when its melded in with his quotes.
so um laugh away if thats what gets you off , i didnt think it was amusing and i wasnt insulting him , merely pointing out i couldnt see what he wrote.
spare me the self righteous crap .when was the last time you forked over some cash to help a poor transexual get enough money together for a surgery? most likely ........ never . so until you stand up for your comments, sit back down .
at least for the few causes i actually support and agree with , i stand by them and offer what i can. the ones i dont tho, i dont do crap for, and also dont want my tax money going to support.
funny how my ignorance as you termed it, still is backed by proof , your ignorance is just natural
and um no i dont follow evolution bs, that would be omgwtfs dept, if you follow the threads youd know that tho
youve proven something??? wtf did i miss out on a lenghty message or 2 of yours? all youve proven is that you can argue irrelevantly and not provide anything but lengthy messages filled with nothing but name calling and insults.
where is this proof?
all you did was voice your own opinion and backed it up with bs. where is the documentation stating that sex changes help these people? for xst sakes you havent even researched what the approximate cost of the surgery is and used that to defend your glass house.
keep grasping at those straws . youll need them when these wackos have to pay to get their own organs removed on their own dime.
if people have to pay to get their ears , dinks, clits, nipples etc pierced, i see no reason why getting them a lil more altered should be at the taxpayers expence
however feel free to offer up your own hard earned money to these people ,noone is stopping you zealots from opening up a transexual assistance acct at the local bank
why dont you put your money where your mouths are instead of just flapping gums
well it was fun you can argue mootly to urselves lol this is geting boring
cheers | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 7:25:36 PM | | OMG..you seem to think you have a lot of knowledge on this subject..were you a she that turned into a he or maybe a he that wants to be a she...if someone has not had the thoughts about changing ...why would he/she know so much..like who cares,just different strokes for different folks | |
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| Should AHC cover sex changes?
Posted: 4/18/2009 7:25:38 PM | so cackle away,i dont see a single person changing their opinions based upon your ridiculous statements.
From what I understand, the idea of a discussion os to discuss and give our opinions. I don't think the goal is to change anyone's opinion.
Also, as to your reference a few times to his "ridiculous statements", I have my own opinion as other might, as to who holds the record for those.
so what exactly is it you "think" you have proven?
Well...this for one
Sometimes I'm actually glad you can't understand what anyone else is saying 'cause it proves the point almost exactly....
It really would have a been a good idea for you to have read the links before posting them. They don't support your stance at all so I'm in agreement that you didn't even read anything more than the titles.
Re: Quoting. I remember fondly the time someone explained to me how to quote and I understood it and it worked! It was about 2 1/2 years ago and was one of the happiest days of my life! LOL (It was Shawn of a B) and I agree, it wasn't too long ago you didn't know how to eigther. If you're resorting to slamming him for that, that's pretty lame.
I'd be happy to show OMG how to quote if it's going to make you be able to read easier.
OE: oops, I had it almost ready to go, then a phone call and now I see 2 posts before mine. Time to read | |
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