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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/26/2009 5:46:47 PM |
Cap: I can barely imagine what kind of life you lead... I think I've met a few of you over the years in bars who felt that it was all about sex...
Well, I live a pretty standard life, really, though I've been places and done things that many will never have a chance to see or do.
I have no idea why you take issue with what I've said, but I can say that I just tell it the way I see it. If you choose to hide from the truth and reality, that is your choice. Good on ya....
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/26/2009 6:02:04 PM | The women in this thread are talking about CHANGING things by trying to teach their own children differently.
Differently than who? The mothers who are still married? Those mothers just aren't trying? Or they don't make their sons feel shameful enough for being male?
Yes, I know that's a rather biting remark, but it's one I think some people need to understand. Simply trying to raise your son not to be like your ex(es) doesn't really move them forward. I've seen cases where those guys ended up living their lives in fear. They're scared of women because they don't want to hurt a woman the way their mother has been hurt.
One must tread carefully when they base their child-rearing on fear instead of hope, regardless of what gender you and your child happen to be. | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/26/2009 7:51:05 PM |
Differently than who? The mothers who are still married? Those mothers just aren't trying? Or they don't make their sons feel shameful enough for being male?
Yes, I know that's a rather biting remark, but it's one I think some people need to understand. Simply trying to raise your son not to be like your ex(es) doesn't really move them forward. I've seen cases where those guys ended up living their lives in fear. They're scared of women because they don't want to hurt a woman the way their mother has been hurt.
One must tread carefully when they base their child-rearing on fear instead of hope, regardless of what gender you and your child happen to be.
Differently meaning not to conquer, impregnate, and run.
As for what you said, I can't argue with that. To be honest, it's not something I've put much thought into or have any experience with.
My point was simply that a person with a victim complex never at fault and therefore does nothing to cause change. And doing our best to raise our children to respect their own bodies and the bodies of others, and that no matter what, children are a gift not to be taken lightly, is really the best we can do.
I'm not advocating fear-mongering or man-bashing, just doing what we do as parents, anyway. Learning from our mistakes and the mistakes of others and trying to pass that on to our children.
That is all.  | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 4:35:17 AM | Tealwood and soccer....
The assumption you make is that I will not also teach the same values to my daughter, to show respect for others. Users are present in both genders, but this thread is about sons, not daughters.
I have tried to teach my son to pick his friends wisely and he does. I have no reason to believe he will less discerning when it comes to picking women to date, although based on what I have read in this thread, I'm not as sure of that as I was before I began reading it. It seems I forgot a few things to teach him so reading this thread is useful
I think there is a natural assumption we make that all of our gender are a certain way....I have never used a person in my life so I guess I kind of forgot that there are women who do.
To assume that women feel used because they give it up too soon is a huge ASSUMPTION. What I was referring to was situations where you are seeing someone for a while and think everything is going great, he is saying/doing all the right things and then you find out that you are but one of a few in his life....players. Of course, not all men are players, in fact very few probably are, but it doesn't mean they don't exist and of course if we have experienced the game we definately don't want to raise our sons to think that treating a woman like that is right....it is about sexual morals and I don't believe that men and women need to have different ones. | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 7:11:18 AM | Capitano....so there is more to being a man than sex eh? I kinda knew that already...lol...but it seemed the focus was on that alone. So what else defines a man to be a man besides their thoughts/feelings on sex? I'm genuinely curious because I really don't think it helps my son if all we do on this thread is bash each other.  This thread actually gives us an opportunity to communicate about the differences between the sexes so those of us who are raising sons and happen to be women can understand our young men better and thereby give them better advice.
When I think of a man, here are my thoughts....(very general I know and perhaps even describing to a degree my ideal man)
1. Emotionally healthy and strong - able to solve his problems without input of others and do it in a healthy way for himself and others. Willing and able to be emotionally supportive to others when called upon (sounding board, solution finder). Also able to understand and be willing to ask for help or to share their struggles with the significant other.
2. Proud - that good old male ego - must feel that he is capable of handling his own affairs without guidance or advice (unless requested).
3. The Protector role - has willingness and desire to be seen as the protector, wants that quality in him to be appreciated.
4. Helper - enjoys being able to do things for a partner they cannot do for themselves but again wants that help to be appreciated, not criticized (closely related to ego)
5. Doesn't really like to talk things to death - is willing to listen and offer suggestions but expects there to be progress made....has difficulty with those quite happy to shit in their shiat and whine about it.
So.....I'm curious if I am even close......
To my sisters - of course men don't corner the market on any quality....no need to state the obvious but I realize some of you just might feel the need to do so.  | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 8:11:46 AM | Very close and you are right that there are inate values that are common to both genders that needs to be taught.
As for players I am starting to understand that this is not gender specific, women just play it in a different manner. That is why I am teaching my daughter to honest about her feelings, have integrity and to also accept responsibility for her part. The idea that he lied and minipulated says to me that the woman in this case has issues that she needs to address.
Lonestar;
good rebuttal to my question - since you so greatly pointed out that the gender lines have been blurred with women moving into traditional males roles and males moving into women's roles, it's nice to see that as per usual when it comes to custody that we get the same answers. | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 8:50:30 AM | soccersweep, you have obviously not ever been played by a player of the male variety if you honestly believe that somehow the woman has issues because she was played.
I am a very trusting person...I don't see that as something I wish to change and see it as preferable to suspecting people for me and also new people in my life. If I meet someone, until THEY give me a reason to believe they are lying to me about their feelings/intentions, I believe them. Insecurity is a rotten emotion to experience and is indicative of someone who has not actually dealt with their past. Once the game is up, the relationship ends. They don't get any more play from this woman but of course, I still feel hurt that someone could lie to me in the first place. I would much rather someone be honest and let ME choose for myself. I don't sweat it for long though...there is no loss when one is talking about a player.
I am not a clingy person...I prefer for us not to be up in each other's face everyday in the beginning of a relationship. I simply cannot breathe even if I really like the man. Players love women like me for that very reason....I won't necessarily pick up on the game they are playing because they have a wide bearth to play. | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 8:52:29 AM | good rebuttal to my question - since you so greatly pointed out that the gender lines have been blurred with women moving into traditional males roles and males moving into women's roles, it's nice to see that as per usual when it comes to custody that we get the same answers.
I wasn't even aware you asked me a question...? As far as this goes:
Teaching our children is proactive but the way I read the state "we are tired of being lied to and minipulated" clearly is putting the blame for her bad decision making on the man. Yes, a man should not lie to get a woman into bed, that's a no brainer since the lesson I teach my daughter is "the measure you give is the measure you get back". But I have also taught her that she is responsible for her actions and her body. She needs to accept that responsibility for her part. What I read above was in being lied to and manipulated was someone who is not taking responsibility and clearly acting as a victim.
She will have a choice whether she sleeps with a guy or not and it is ultimately her responsibility to make that decision.
I think I was just looking at it from a different perspective...in a more general way. Of course both parents played a role in the situation, and I would hope a parent would do their best to see their own mistakes and try to teach their children to respect themselves AND demand respect from others.
I've actually never thought about the effects of a mother with a victim complex on raising a son...
But tell someone they have no right to play the victim only makes them feel more victimized. It's a losing battle.
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 11:05:37 AM | soccersweep...you perceive that I feel I am a victim? 
You don't know me...and if you read that into what I wrote well then I think that speaks more to your perceptions than mine. Whenever I even feel a bit like a victim I need to step back and examine and accept my CHOICES. Victims tend to repeat destructive behaviour without ever looking at their responsibility in the *messes* or healing themselves from the actions of others, at least that is how I define a victim and I'm not one. I'm a survivor, not a victim. Maybe you define it differently though.
I take full responsibility for the CHOICES I make but when one is being lied to or manipulated without their knowledge, how do they exactly get a chance to make a CHOICE?
A liar and a manipulator is always the one to blame for treating another human in such a horrible way. I'm not a victim though. I don't sit and poor me about players. I've actually become more alert to them but you know what...I can still accept that I had a choice when I got involved. I CHOSE to trust them and to take them at their word. So hell, I forgive myself and ask myself if I want to assume every man is like that until he proves otherwise and the answer has always been the same....NO! I never made a CHOICE to be lied to unless I stayed after the first lie was discovered and I never have so.......no victim here. Thanks though for your concern.  | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 12:35:20 PM | "soccersweep...you perceive that I feel I am a victim?"
Nope, never have and never will from your posting on here
"A liar and a manipulator is always the one to blame for treating another human in such a horrible way."
Maybe I just believe in the old saying "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me"
If the person does not look within themselves after they have been duped and say what was my part in all of this then they are not accepting responsibility. You have clearly done this by stating above, I have become more alert, not that you won't trust again or take someone at face value but through these experiences we learn and grow hence take responsibility for our actions. | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 1:17:43 PM |
(Jaxi2008) Wow Cap.....that's a fantastic idea....in fact, I'm going to go and re-write my blurb in the "hopes and dreams" section of his baby book.....
"My hopes & dreams for you baby boy, is that I will raise you well enough to get laid on a regular basis."
What about his hopes & dreams? They don't matter?
Arlo | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 3:38:43 PM | quote*********Families need fathers.
Millions of years of evolution cannot be overturned in a few years without there being consequences. Look around you.********unquote
Millions of years ago, wasn't man an ape? Hmmmm. | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 4:02:35 PM |
Millions of years ago, wasn't man an ape? Hmmmm.
Yes, and it's not a problem for the "women have been oppressed for millions of years" crowd. | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 5:00:07 PM | ok Cap so I'm close.....so care to fill in the rest of the blanks? ~sly smile~ or might that get you into trouble with renewing your membership into the "Club"? | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 5:31:20 PM |
ok Cap so I'm close.....so care to fill in the rest of the blanks? ~sly smile~ or might that get you into trouble with renewing your membership into the "Club"?
... I'm not sure if I'm on the board of directors or whether I got kicked out of that club long ago, so it doesn't matter much what the hell I say... 
So... filling in blanks....
How are you about farts? Laugh, gag, let a better one rip?
Besides farts, I think just keep reminding yourself that the way your son sees and feels things is NOT, by female definition, inherently WRONG.
Too much of what is deemed acceptable these days is the female perspective. How men see the world is denegrated and seen as myopic, aenemic, sterile, flat, lacking and shallow.
So, I dunno.... just start from a place that what he feels is ok and not messed up.....
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 2/27/2009 5:36:24 PM | Thanks cap...I guess we'll be alright then because I make it a point to always validate his feelings, even those I don't really understand or agree with.
I must admit though, I do miss the good old days when he was communicative...
He doesn't fart... I swear he has the healthiest colon known to man....hahahaha but if he did, I would probably laugh...my dad used to do it alot and blame it on the dog so I'm kinda accustomed to it. | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 3/1/2009 5:58:13 PM |
Differently meaning not to conquer, impregnate, and run.
But that's more what my question is. You believe mothers who are still married, or still together with the father of their children, are teaching this to their sons? I very much doubt that most fathers who remain in the lives of their sons are teaching this to them as they have run nowhere.
That's where my concern comes from about women trying to teach their sons not to be their exes. Those boys are not being taught what it takes to be a man, they are simply being shamed for the mistakes of their fathers.
What you are speaking of is about teaching children respect. But when you approach it in the manner you have stated, will that approach be more condusive to teaching respect, or shame? Yes, it's semantics, but that's how children soak things up. They are very literal. If early on they are learning shame, they will grow up being shameful. As a result, you may prevent them from ever hurting a woman in the way you describe, but what happens when a woman hurts them? That's the cruel irony of life. You spend your whole life feminizing your son only to have him blindsided by a masculated woman. | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 3/1/2009 6:44:22 PM |
But that's more what my question is. You believe mothers who are still married, or still together with the father of their children, are teaching this to their sons? I very much doubt that most fathers who remain in the lives of their sons are teaching this to them as they have run nowhere.
My comment was in response written in the context of Cap saying that single mother's should teach their sons to emulate their fathers. I get what you're saying about the possible consequences of actively teaching your son to NOT be his father...my point was that I wouldn't actively try to teach my son to be his father. *Conquer, impregnate and run* is the reason I wouldn't want my child idolize him...they're not the subjects on my lesson plan.
If a man can abandon his children, he obviously has a skewed value system, and the mother that PICKED a man who willingly left needs to pay attention to her mistakes and the mistakes of the father...or the cycle is likely to continue.
The mother needs to up her standards of what a real man is, or how can she raise one? | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 3/1/2009 9:12:31 PM | Just wanted to say again that my boys are really good kids and that yes, I would love for them to have their daddy in their life, but it's not a reality at this point. So, what we all may want isn't always what we may need. Do I fear that they wont be good men because they dont have their dad? No. Do I have to work twice as hard as a parent because they dont have their dad? Yes. But it's all good! I was looking at my kids today... they are happy, healthy, funny, kind-hearted, and again, happy! I can't ask for more than happy, well adjusted kids :-)
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 3/2/2009 7:15:58 AM |
I was looking at my kids today... they are happy, healthy, funny, kind-hearted, and again, happy! I can't ask for more than happy, well adjusted kids :-)
Not to poke holes in your kids, they may indeed be happy, healthy, funny, etc... etc.... well adjusted, kids....
But in many cases, the parents cannot perceive of how their kids are....
I've known a few women who thought their kids were angels when in fact they were the opposite....
One of my friends thinks her daughter is SO smart and so adult and so well adjusted...
Meanwhile the daughter has issues over her mom and dad, does drugs, she cuts herself, and dropped out of high school.... | |
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| CAN A woman TEACH A boy how to be a MAN!
Posted: 3/2/2009 9:08:15 AM |
Not to poke holes in your kids, they may indeed be happy, healthy, funny, etc... etc.... well adjusted, kids.... But in many cases, the parents cannot perceive of how their kids are.... I've known a few women who thought their kids were angels when in fact they were the opposite.... One of my friends thinks her daughter is SO smart and so adult and so well adjusted... Meanwhile the daughter has issues over her mom and dad, does drugs, she cuts herself, and dropped out of high school.... Not to poke holes at you, but if YOU were happy, healthy, funny, etc, you wouldn't be so lamely trolling around the single parents forum trying to prove a point you know absolutely nothing about. And THAT is the truth. | |
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