| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/10/2009 6:55:26 PM | So... why do you have that picture up? For esthetic value? No... you are selling sex... albeit for a relationship, but you are still posing yourself in a lewd manner to attract what you want.
Let's define "selling" shall we? It seems to me that it has to do with money being exchanged for something... Now you can play with that if you want to (or need to...) but if you continue to accuse me of "selling myself" or being a prostitute, you can explain yourself to the mods.
I see no harm in any woman wearing pretty clothes or keeping herself in good shape to be not only confident in herself but also to be proud of the fact that she is a woman. If I was nude in that chair, you would have some basis for comparison but as it is, you're just blowing smoke up everybodies' butts!
You can't tell me that while wearing a full length gown, red sheer stockings and a garter that it would be socially acceptable to saunter into someone's home and straddle a chair just to rest your arms now could you?
Wow... all I can say is "wow"... How bloody stoopid are we all gonna get? Are you saying people should only post pictures of themselves in a dowdy old housedress or t-shirts and shorts here on a "dating" site?
As a matter of fact, given the right social function, I would dress exactly as I'm dressed in that picture but no, I would not "saunter" (since I don't saunter) into anyone's home in the middle of the day in a long evening dress. LOL! WTH does that have to do with the subject at hand???
and as for being a cowgirl? You live in British Columbia... you find a lot of cowboys up in those mountains do ya?
Well... all the interest in me would normally be quite flattering if it wasn't being used to detract from a logical and reasonable debate about the topic but since you asked... My family has been country through several generations beginning with a long history of rodeo riders. I spent a great deal of my youth playing on my grandfather's horse ranch and I have lived on many farms throughout much of my life. One of my grandfathers was known as "Granddaddy of the Rodeo" and I have many aunts and uncles that were trickriders and rodeo people.
For your information, BC has a great deal of agricultural land and it is not the slightest bit unusual for me to go riding with my daughter when I can get back home. We do in fact have MANY cowboys here in BC! I am also a trained professional truck driver and I learned out here in "these mountains"... Anything else you want to know?
Yanno... what many onlookers may not realize is that there are some little friendships in the background of this thread and many of you are just beaking off out of loyalty to your buddies.
Since I can also feel my normal composure slipping away, I will take the high road on out of this thread but call me a prostitute again and I WILL report you.... You count on it... Okay??? | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/10/2009 6:59:26 PM | Now if we could only move this argument up onto the stage and set it all to music, I would be in fecking heaven. I'm going to rename different body parts with things like ego, wit, righteousness and sarcasm.. For commentary purposes!
Because I think it would be so hot to see a few of these ladies triumphing despite the odds. to see one or two of them rubbing their sarcasm all over the others , maybe even making them touch their ego's, as all the men in the club watch.
Yes yes making them rub all over the others wit and maybe just maybe see them enjoy the sensation of having righteous planted right on their face!
I've got a hand full of singles and a front row seat! So bring it!
Oh damn, I guess I have been thinking way to much about hooters, man I love their wings! | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/10/2009 7:05:25 PM |
Since I can also feel my normal composure slipping away, I will take the high road on out of this thread but call me a prostitute again and I WILL report you.... You count on it... Okay??? Cupcake... you really need to reread what I wrote...
Where did I say you were prostitute? I said you were selling yourself for a relationship... far cry from prostitution...
But hey... you like to see things that aren't written... so by all means... do call in the moderators and make sure that you ask them to review all of your derogatory and debasing posts...
I stand by my thoughts that a stripper isn't all that bad a profession... nothing to be ashamed of to say the least... | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/10/2009 7:33:37 PM | To answer the question...If the tables were turned and he was a stripper...probably not. As far as making the short term career choice to be a stripper to get through a tough time...to each their own.
It's not something I could do...just not the (body) type...lol.
Having been in a tough situation 21+ years ago I found other ways to survive for both myself and my daughter. To some degree it involved public assistance, during that time I put myself through school. Between programs that helped with finances and loans that I have long since repaid I got a degree and found a job and have made a career out of it and have been in the hospitality industry for 20+ years.
I will say this though...there are "respectable" establishments out there. By that I mean the girls/guys are on a stage and "acting", they are not and cannot be touched or approached by the audience, and are not necessarily taking it all off. Also, in Vegas there are plenty of shows that have been long in running (Jubilee, I think may be one of them) where the show girls are nude, I realize that is a bit different.
There are also the seedy places where anything can and does happen and you have to wonder why?
Here is an interesting but short read on the topic of how much money can be made...
http://ezinearticles.com/?Stripper-Tips----Do-Girls-Really-Earn-a-Six-Figure-Income?&id=2198918 | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/10/2009 8:16:05 PM |
Stripping, Hollywood, fashion, music, hospitality, advertising - Looks are currency. Some people are blessed with looks, some with athletic prowess, some with exceptional brains (or combinations thereof.) A wise person identifies their strengths and leverages them.
^^^Exactly!
The OP's friend had a choice and she made it. She didn't sell her body - taking your clothes off is hardly prostitution. She did it for enough time to get herself out of financial chit and then got out. She used the system to her advantage without it affecting her or her family.
^^^You know in another thread there is a question about situational ethics. The question sets up the scenario and asks if a parent with no other options needs to steal milk for their baby could this ever under any circumstances be justified? Overwhelmingly support on that thread suggested that most were willing to break the law to steal to be able to provide for a child, not surprisingly.
This woman in theory faced the same decision--you may not like what she chose to do, but what she did do is find a way to provide for her family in a way that is legal and which leaves her the ability to re-establish her life, stability and a provide a future for her kids, based solely on her efforts. Whatever her working conditions were, I believe it's simplistic to suggest that the whole thing was 'easy'.
I'm not into judging.
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/10/2009 10:18:15 PM | When I first read this, I thought, Wow, I wish there was such an easy way out for guys. Then when I tried to draw a parallel, I thought maybe there was.
Suppose it's the guy left destitute with responsibility for a couple kids. He decides to become a stripper. Of course he's not Chippendales material, so he ends up doing it for the lumpy old lady and gay guy circuit. There's not really any money in it on it's face, so he needs to do some side jobs (hand and blow) to make ends meet.
Do the ladies see this as a success story? He's got a house and car and his kids have a great nest egg. The guy, on the other hand, has been with more men than you. He didn't want to do it, but it was a quick fix. Are you cool with that? | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/10/2009 10:34:16 PM | The means you use to achieve your ends sometimes have ways of coming back at you eventually. It's just karma sometimes. And yeah, we lie in the beds of our own making.
Every day, we decide whether we want to do right or wrong. To uplift ourselves or demean ourselves.
She may have legitimate reasons for doing it, but like I said, things like that have a way of getting around again... It's hard to escape your past sometimes.
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/10/2009 10:35:16 PM | Nope...and I said that before in an earlier post.
Same reasons.
Prostitution and it's associate activities like "escort services" and "stripping" are linked to enabling drug activities, crime, diseases and children in care.
I will not have anything to do with people who believe in acquisitions derived from criminal or sexual activities. It just only re-inforces the criminal element and entrenches them in our society.
Mexico now is so riddled with drugs and crime it is begging the world for help. It used to be the favourite place to go for "interesting" sex shows and prostitution was rampant. Most of it was legal. Does it make it acceptable? Nope.
Material gain and profitting from it? Yes...sleazy operators at the top and Pimps who drive around in fancy cars and have fancy boats and houses.
Are they to be admired? Nope.
There are jobs to be had that are admirable. Skills that can be acquired by opportunities. Programs that help out when you are down and out.
Dignity and pride in oneself is gold. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/10/2009 10:54:31 PM |
Dignity and pride in oneself is gold.
To be aware of the truth in ones own life is priceless!
You know it gets really tiresome reading so many comments from people who like to come off as though they live by some type of higher moral code.
They seem to have excuses for everything they do that is questionable or comes across as the same type of behaviour they are condemning.
Cleavage shots and posses on a bed with a glass of wine. Leg shots showing everything up to 6 inch's away from the crotch. All covered in make-up. Using sexual desires to sell them selves.
The men they attract have money, well of course a job is one of the requirements. They pay for dinners to be around those women posing all sweet and sexy like. They bring them flowers to impress those sweet sexy women.
So one does it for the cash, one does it to land the right man which in the long run gives up the cash.(cash as in purchases aka items) At least the stripper is to the point and clearly out for one thing. No need for her to lie or cheat to get what she's out for!
Even better she's not concerned with judging the ones who seem to think their way of achieving their goal is the moral way! Even if both are the means to an end!
So if you want to be honest and not show what hypocrites you really are, post some pic's completely covered up with no make-up and hair undone!
Until then your just a lesser of two evils! | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 8:24:33 AM | Do people really see no difference between a woman who might be showing a little skin (or posed in a provocative stance) to hopefully land her a decent man (or perhaps even a mythical soul mate!) and a stripper?
Cause to me there is a clear difference - one is searching for love, the other for cash.
Now I'm not being down on anyone who strips for cash, in fact I've stated numerous times that if I had the body women would pay to see undressed (rather than paid to stayed dressed) I might have done the same thing. These women are doing what they feel they must in order to get ahead and I can respect that.
That said, I've been to strip clubs only twice in my life, both times dragged kicking and screaming by a well-meaning friend who wanted to celebrate first his then my birthday. And I have to say, I don't ever see myself going again. Why?
Honestly it was just too damned depressing. I was surrounded by gorgeous, naked women, but I couldn't seperate the human beings from the eye candy. From a nervous, visibly shaking new girl who probably wanted nothing more than to just put her clothes back on, to the forced smile of a dancer being rushed to "take it all off" while trying to bring some fantasy and sensuality in the form of dance to disgusting men...I just wanted to cry. Not just for the women who for whatever reasons have picked this path in life, but for the men as well who will never see just how beautiful these women really are.
So you see, it isn't as glamorous as many are led to believe.
There's a lot more being sold off than just a little skin... | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 9:12:00 AM |
Do people really see no difference between a woman who might be showing a little skin (or posed in a provocative stance) to hopefully land her a decent man (or perhaps even a mythical soul mate!) and a stripper?
Thank you, deagleninja, for your common sense. I am glad to see that in this forum there are people who do have class.
Attraction, whether it's visual, intellectual or emotional is the commonality that we all have to gain a mate. Believe me, actions count a heckuva lot.
I make my money and get my material things through my intellect in a career that is so intelligence-based that I wear suits and put my hair up. No cleavage showing and very little make-up. If I am to be taken seriously by men and women, this is what I do.
Then I gain their respect and admiration for my brains.
What is important to anyone is how proud that they are of their job and what they do.
Some people live in a fantasy and idealistic world on here...which gives me concern.
Hollywood loves to feed idealism...too much TV????
Maybe some people need to take at look at real life and see what goes on behind the scenes. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 9:19:48 AM | I'm not sure exactly how sexually exploiting men to make money constitutes a "triumph against all the odds", but using sex to take men's money seems to be all the rage these days, as is any sort of hyperbole necessary to justify it. I'd guess she's milking the ex for child support, too, in a yet another "triumph"; and that will likely go on longer than her career as a stripper.
Would you start a relationship with them?
My odds of ever crossing paths with a stripper are probably less than my odds of winning the lottery, so I'd have to say "No" to this hypothetical question.
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 9:47:20 AM |
Do people really see no difference between a woman who might be showing a little skin (or posed in a provocative stance) to hopefully land her a decent man (or perhaps even a mythical soul mate!) and a stripper?
Well of course we do! That's why we're her at not at a strip club. Our chances of actually getting a woman are way better on here then at that club!
Now there's some reality for ya! | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 10:30:26 AM |
Do people really see no difference between a woman who might be showing a little skin (or posed in a provocative stance) to hopefully land her a decent man (or perhaps even a mythical soul mate!) and a stripper?
Cause to me there is a clear difference - one is searching for love, the other for cash. It's the hypocrisy that I see the irony in... showing yourself on here is somehow more acceptable to some people than showing yourself in a club. Personally, I don't see the lines defined...
As for landing a decent man? I speak to a lot of decent men... and they have more respect for me in that I don't have lewd pictures of me up showing off my attributes to anyone that cares to click on my profile. But then again... I guess some women can't attract guys any other way... *shrug*
So you see, it isn't as glamorous as many are led to believe.
There's a lot more being sold off than just a little skin... Only to those that won't allow it to simply be a job... | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 10:54:18 AM | Mah!! I didn't read the whole thread there seems to be some disagreeing going on
I'm not in the mood to destroy a thread today or hand out any spankings  actually I'm in a great mood for a Monday so I'll just add my two sense.
So, how did she get to be so successful and financially independent from being absolutely destitute? She became a stripper!
So I guess my question is, does it really matter, when we hear a story about triumph against all the odds, exactly how one arrives at their personal triumph? (Assuming it's not by illegal means, that is). Or...would it make you respect one less, for having done *anything* to manage to surpass the odds that were thrown at them?
Would you start a relationship with them?
I don't think she could give two chits what anyone here or where ever for that matter thinks about her. I'm sure she's not losing any sleep over it. She has a roof over her head and hopefuly her children are cared for. There are many men out there that do and start relationships with strippers.....anyone who says otherwise is a bullchitter and I'll say it right to their face.
As far as starting a relationship with one that would be few and far between for many
especialy anyone cruising this internet board.
You never know when love is going to come looking if thats what it is ment to be. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 12:03:10 PM |
Do people really see no difference between a woman who might be showing a little skin (or posed in a provocative stance) to hopefully land her a decent man (or perhaps even a mythical soul mate!) and a stripper?
Cause to me there is a clear difference - one is searching for love, the other for cash.
Well actually... there are even more differences. One is the woman who dresses "up" for a date and the other is the woman who takes all her clothes off so that she can have that new house, new car or whatever it is she's found out she can get if she's willing to part with her self-respect. In my view, the woman who is dressing "up" is someone taking care of herself and proud to be a woman. The woman who is taking it all off for strangers for money is perhaps taking care of her "wants", "gimmes" and "gotta haves" but not her "self". That, in and of itself, is a pretty big difference!
These women are doing what they feel they must in order to get ahead and I can respect that.
I think that the days are long gone when a woman had to sell herself as a sex object to "get ahead". During the times in history when women had little or few other options and found themselves alone and in poverty, there was ample reason for a woman to choose stripping over driving a shopping cart around on the streets. These days, there are jobs that a woman can work to keep the babies fed and clothed. Women can (and do) stay in school or return to school to develop their brains and skillsets. In many cases, single Moms are offered a lot more assistance than the single Dads! It's entirely possible that this is the case so that they don't have to crawl around on stage in front of a bunch of old pervs who couldn't care less about them!!
Now... if there was an emergency situation such as a child needing surgery that would save his or her life and there was no other way to come up with the money to have it done, I could see a mom getting onstage to make that money but let's face it, that's rarely the case. Even in this scenario, the woman stripped to earn the deposit on a house. Did she NEED to buy a house? No. Would the children have been just as safe in a rental home? Of course they would.
Honestly it was just too damned depressing. I was surrounded by gorgeous, naked women, but I couldn't seperate the human beings from the eye candy. From a nervous, visibly shaking new girl who probably wanted nothing more than to just put her clothes back on, to the forced smile of a dancer being rushed to "take it all off" while trying to bring some fantasy and sensuality in the form of dance to disgusting men...I just wanted to cry. Not just for the women who for whatever reasons have picked this path in life, but for the men as well who will never see just how beautiful these women really are.
It's an amazing person who has the ability to see the "human being" behind the actions and for this, you have my heartiest respect. This brought to mind the scene in Forrest Gump where his beloved Jenny is finally given her chance to become famous with her music and Forrest becomes so horrified that no one is listening to her sing. He sees only his angel and her dreams coming true when no one else can. And how sad it is, that it's the sexual abuse in her childhood that has made her willing to sell her self-respect simply to be able to sing.
Do the people that think stripping is okay stop to think that many of those young women taking off their clothes have been sexually abused as children and made to feel like this is their only value? I'd like to think they do but I know in my heart, they don't.
Earlier in this post, I spoke about my own moment of decision when as a young mother I lacked the necessary education or skills to do much more than work at poorly-paid jobs. In those times, women who found themselves being the sole support of their babies had a really tough time. Although I struggled with the decision, I have had many occasions since to know that I did the right thing even though I didn't end up with all of the worldly niceties so many women think they just "have to have". It took me 16 years of damn hard work to be able to get back to school and finally get a career under my belt. With the benefit of hindsight, I know that there were many times in my life when it was my own self-respect and integrity that carried me through. Without it, all the nice clothes, cars and houses would have meant NOTHING!
Do I respect myself for that even tho' I don't have all the "nice things" I could have had? You bet I do! Did I need that self-respect to get by? You bet I did. Do I care if others respect me? Not nearly as much as I care about my own ability to respect me.
It comes as no surprise that many parents are STILL teaching their female children, either by action or deed, that it really is okay to sacrifice their feelings of self-worth and values for the greater gods of money. These are often the parents who have done so themselves who pretend that they "can't see the lines".
The true hypocrisy is the people who pretend to give a damn instead of truly caring about these young women. Thank you for being one of the exceptional few Deagle. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 12:10:06 PM |
It's an amazing person who has the ability to see the "human being" behind the actions and for this, you have my heartiest respect I wonder if you can see the human being behind the horny old perv who watches the stripper. Nope, that's way too far to stretch. The stripper is admirable and she deserves respect as a human being. The man in this scene, just a scumbag to spit on. No hypocrisy here, none at all.
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 12:14:09 PM |
showing yourself on here is somehow more acceptable to some people than showing yourself in a club. Personally, I don't see the lines defined...
So you don't see a line between trying to find one man for love, and trying to entice a room full of men for money?
You don't see a difference between having the power to ignore or block unwanted emails, and being powerless to so much as put your own shirt on?
I'm just asking cause while both DO use sexuality, that's all they have in common.
The motivations, goals, desires and sacrafices are worlds apart in my opinion.
Only to those that won't allow it to simply be a job...
I don't think stripping will ever "simply be a job".
I don't need bouncers to escort me safely to my car at night after my shift is up do you? | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 12:43:14 PM | I wonder if you can see the human being behind the horny old perv who watches the stripper. Nope, that's way too far to stretch. The stripper is admirable and she deserves respect as a human being. The man in this scene, just a scumbag to spit on. No hypocrisy here, none at all.
Well... .I think that the issues that bring that horny, old perv into the strip bar with money that would likely be a lot more beneficial to his life and perhaps even his family's life, constitute a whole nuther thread.
Having said that, I think many men are also aware that there is a pretty high probability that the young woman on the stage has been sexually abused at one time or another. If nothing else, they are certainly aware that she is more than just body parts being flung around... I think a lot of those same men would hate like Hell to see their own daughters, sisters, mothers or wives up on that stage but somehow manage to overlook that that young woman is also someone's daughter...
Do I see his humanity? Yes... Does he see hers? Not too likely although I must say, Deagle certainly stands in his own light here...
Edit:
I'm just asking cause while both DO use sexuality, that's all they have in common.
I think there's a big difference between using one's "sexuality" and one's "feminity". If I were truly using my sexuality, I would have posed for my pics in the outfit that goes with that garter!
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 1:01:23 PM | Rock Man’s post Msg 86 has stirred some of my thinking about this issue into a broader context.
Just who goes to strip joints I wonder?? Let me think, ah yes...that would be my ex-husband and frankly every single boyfriend that I’ve had ever since. Does association taint me somehow? Is my experience unusual I wonder? Methinks not.
Let’s consider the following:
Does it make any economic sense at all that one of the biggest industries in the world, raking in the huge sums of money is such because it is supported by only the morally corrupted and depraved among us---I mean really, just how many of those could there possibly be..!
Could a model such as that somehow account for the huge wealth that this industry reels in? Nope.
The industry is huge because of its ubiquitous access (like Chinese food restaurants...there seems to be a strip joint in most towns).
The industry is huge because it’s a wildly successful business model with one phenomenal assumption: men like to look at ‘nekkid wimmin’ (I’ll bet that many men despite justifications and protestations otherwise, have been there/done that at least once in their life by middle age)--period.
What I’m curious about is whether many men share Deagle’s experience, as he recounts his own personal forays into the den… “I've been to strip clubs only twice in my life, both times dragged kicking and screaming by a well-meaning friend”…
With regard to stripping for a living…some suggest that stripping is always a poor choice for a woman, regardless of circumstance and one that can never be justified.
What I see can never be justified is for people to pass judgment on others for choices that they make in their lives---their rationale, their experiences and perspective, are theirs alone.
I have no doubt that there are women who choose to strip because when they find themselves devoid of options-- as they believe themselves to be for whatever the reason; and to those, this line of work appears to be a viable choice.
As that is true, the opposite is also true. There are bound to be women who feel fantastic about their choice to be a stripper. They walk in with eyes wide open. They see the whole thing differently; having made a choice to become a ‘sex object’ and having done so, celebrate their choice--some I'll bet are even empowered by their choice.
On the other hand I, and many other women like me who choose not be looked at or judged in any way as a sex object; can walk into a ‘professional office environment’, and expect to be treated ‘professionally’; we expect to find ‘professional males’ in these environments that should above all else, place their focus, contact, communication and evaluation, squarely on the work I am hired to do--nothing more nothing less. And sometimes, this is not what happens at all.
It can be subtle;
It can be overt;
But one thing that it’s not---is part of my job.
This is what is truly demeaning--
JMO
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 1:09:17 PM | What I see can never be justified is for people to pass judgment on others for choices that they make in their lives---their rationale their experiences are theirs alone.
Uhm, then why are you passing judgement on men whose choice is to go to stripper joints, which you seem to do by calling them "the morally corrupted and depraved among us"? (If that's not being judgemental, I don't know what would qualify.)
In other words, if "it's just a job" why aren't they merely customers of a legal business establishment? After all, the customers are a neccesity if the worker is to get anything out of working there. Can't have one without the other.
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 1:12:00 PM |
I think many men are also aware that there is a pretty high probability that the young woman on the stage has been sexually abused at one time or another.
Just as high of a probability that anyone who uses their sexual side to gain attention or to stand out has too!
When you decide to get all gussied up for a date, you are doing the same thing as a stripper. You are selling your sexuality. You may try and say there is a big difference, but on what level? So it just boils down to being a lesser of 2 evils!
Think about how many people are sitting at other tables at the restaurant your date takes you to. How many of those other people are sitting in a higher standard of living and moral mind set to see the way many women dress on a daily basis as slutty and whoreish? | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 1:14:49 PM |
Uhm, then why are you passing judgement on men whose choice is to go to stripper joints, which you seem to do by calling them "the morally corrupted and depraved among us"?
^^^Perhaps I'm not being clear...
I don't think people who go to strip joints are morally corrupt or depraved at all.
...I'm sensing that people on this thread who judge people who do go to them think this... | |
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