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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 1:20:51 PM | | Sure! I don't know if that was a "personal" triumph, though, but it sure was a financial triumph! Being a stripper is better than being a whore. As long as she didn't have to actually perform sex but just did the strip-tease, sure, I wouldn't respect her any less than any other flesh-and-blood human being, and, sure, I'd get involved with her if she so desired. Strippers make good money! Some girls do it to put themselves through college, build up a retirement savings, raise kids like your lady above, or any number of reasons. It's all about the cash (well...maybe it's fun to drive guys crazy too, the guys that they find good-looking that is). Hell, I'd even show up to her workplace and be one of her best customers lol! | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 1:30:54 PM |
Just as high of a probability that anyone who uses their sexual side to gain attention or to stand out has too!
Using one's femininity and one's sexual side are two different things. One is dressed up... the other one is dressed... well... down.
When you decide to get all gussied up for a date, you are doing the same thing as a stripper. You are selling your sexuality.
With all due respect, that is one of the most asinine things I have ever seen someone post on these forums!
I've read enough of your posts to understand what your thought processes are so let me see if I can "guess" at what you're alluding to. You're saying (and have always said) that women who go on dates are receiving a financial advantage from a man in having their dinners purchased for them and of course, those same women are trying to reel that paycheque... er man... in with their feminine wiles. Right? (Man are you stuck in a timewarp or not?)
It may come as a bit of a shock to you Sir but here in the year 2009, many of us pay for our own dinners and/or his... Many of us will actually purchase 2 tickets to a concert and invite a nice guy along. Many of us actually enjoy the company of a good man and eagerly look forward to sharing an evening with him. So where does that leave your bitter theory?
When I dress up to go on a date, I am not dressing to try to con some poor bugger out of his loot! I've learned to take care of myself because it contributes to my own self-confidence and I just happen to like being a woman who has taken good care of herself!
Think about how many people are sitting at other tables at the restaurant your date takes you to. How many of those other people are sitting in a higher standard of living and moral mind set to see the way many women dress on a daily basis as slutty and whoreish?
Are you even aware of what you're writing? I don't think so... If you want to date some lumberjack who picks her teeth with your matchbook and wipes her nose on her arm, do so! You're so firmly convinced that all women are sluts and whores that I doubt anything I might say would ever change your mind. Even more importantly, I don't care to try... | |
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Joined: 6/4/2007
Msg: 104 | |
| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 1:40:02 PM |
You don't see a difference between having the power to ignore or block unwanted emails, and being powerless to so much as put your own shirt on? This alludes to strippers being slaves. They're not. They're employed at the bar or club and have the right to quit anytime they want so in essence, they do have the right to put their shirt back on...
I don't need bouncers to escort me safely to my car at night after my shift is up do you? Yes, I worked for a company under contract, and the contract stated that it was the company's responsibility to ensure my personal safety after a shift from the time I left the building, to the time I entered my residence...
And it wasn't a strip club that I was employed by...
Still... it's a job, nothing more, nothing less... no one is selling their soul to the devil. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 1:42:47 PM |
Using one's femininity and one's sexual side are two different things. One is dressed up... the other one is dressed... well... down.
Without getting back onto the whole stripper aspect, being that I've already stated my opinion towards the beginning of the thread, I would tend to disagree with the above; not as a generalization of all women but there are definitely those who figure they are dressing up and calling it femininity and have some form of clothes on when, in actual fact, the nature of their dress could be considered "dressing down" and not leaving much to the imagination as to the intent of the type of dressing they are doing. I've lived long enough to know the difference when I see it, no matter how feminine and non-sexual the wearer purports the attire to be. I'm not addressing my statement to the person who posted, just to the statement itself. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 1:45:24 PM |
It may come as a bit of a shock to you Sir but here in the year 2009, many of us pay for our own dinners and/or his... Many of us will actually purchase 2 tickets to a concert and invite a nice guy along. Many of us actually enjoy the company of a good man and eagerly look forward to sharing an evening with him. So where does that leave your bitter theory?
CLEARLY you have missed the infamous "It's a coffee!" thread then, and the 31 pages of it that demonstrate the exact OPPOSITE of what you claim there being 2009 and all.
Women don't even wanna sheck out for a $2 coffee...just go reading that thread. What makes you so convinced that in 2009 things are so much different?! THEY AREN'T. Not at ALL.
Those 31 pages are the clearest examples of the "entitlement" than women walk around with these days, and in days of yore. I'd say that leaves his "bitter theory" up there on the pedestal where all manners of virtue lay. For all to see.
Perhaps YOU, PERSONALLY will pay for dinners, and tickets and the like...but 31 pages of females say something completely different and they say it loud and clear.
If anything, your rebuttal was the one that reeked of bitterness...
Theirs was right on the money. One thread and 31 pages (and counting) proves it soundly. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 1:54:41 PM | I will answer this from a different perspective: Would I start a relationship (because friendship IS a relationship) with this woman.
Actually, I know a few "dancers". One of them supports her husband (who is injured and cannot work full time) and their two little kids because living on his disability check and an $8/hr. job (KY economy) would barely pay their mortgage, let alone anything else. They don't mind and the kids are well taken care of and seem to be happy. At least she's not just sitting on her butt and living off the State. So why not? | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 2:11:24 PM |
With all due respect, that is one of the most asinine things I have ever seen someone post on these forums!
Don't worry, I always consider the source before I get all in a bunch over comments!
I've read enough of your posts to understand what your thought processes are so let me see if I can "guess" at what you're alluding to. You're saying (and have always said) that women who go on dates are receiving a financial advantage from a man in having their dinners purchased for them and of course, those same women are trying to reel that paycheque... er man... in with their feminine wiles. Right? (Man are you stuck in a timewarp or not?)
I do not allude to anything, I am always very clear about my views. It's the way people comprehend what they read that leaves them guessing!
You couldn't be further off base with your understanding of who or what I am, or my views about women! You would be more then impressed if you did!
Using one's femininity and one's sexual side are two different things.
Femininity is sexual by nature! What would a woman use their femininity for other then as bait? Better gas mileage?
I can more than just appreciate your views. I can even accept them. As long as they are for you and not used to judge what others feel to be acceptable for themselves.
I wouldn't date a stripper! But not because of morals or values. My reasoning is on a whole different level. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 2:16:50 PM | CLEARLY you have missed the infamous "It's a coffee!" thread then, and the 31 pages of it that demonstrate the exact OPPOSITE of what you claim there being 2009 and all.
I guess I did miss that one BDJ. But would I have taken a thread on POF as being a good representation of women the world over? Nah... You, being a long time poster here, know this better than most. Many of the people who gravitate to a dating site are still grieving and/or mourning their lost relationships and wishing for the ability to go on as though nothing has upset their worlds. That particular phenomena plays out in 1000's of threads here.
Do I think that some people don't have a grandiose sense of entitlement? Not at all. I see it often when I am working in family law and it sure as hell isn't pretty but again, people who are going through divorce, separation and loss are often grieving. If you can work through their anger and blustering, oftentimes, you find a weeping spirit beneath. The same holds true for this forum.
For that reason, I feel no need to "go read that thread". I've seen the dogpile of people grabbing everything that isn't nailed down many times and I think if you see a lot of women posting that they shouldn't have to shell out one thin dime or that they "deserve" to have money spent on them, well... such is the nature of these forums.
Those 31 pages are the clearest examples of the "entitlement" than women walk around with these days, and in days of yore. I'd say that leaves his "bitter theory" up there on the pedestal where all manners of virtue lay. For all to see.
And.. the same goes for "him"... If you want to use a dating site forum to make your decisions about the inherent nature of people to allow yourself to become bitter, as far as I'm concerned, you're just looking for excuses to be bitter. It's amazing how some people wrap that bitterness around themselves to spare their having to be vulnerable or having to make the effort to understand or care... They even make a habit out of blaming everyone else for the bitterness they've chosen as their own defence.
Perhaps YOU, PERSONALLY will pay for dinners, and tickets and the like...but 31 pages of females say something completely different and they say it loud and clear.
I speak only for myself and I take full responsibility for what I say. Go deal with the females on that thread if you have more to say to them.
If anything, your rebuttal was the one that reeked of bitterness...
Have you looked at your own posting history lately? Is there anyone you DON'T accuse of bitterness???
I personally, have no reason to be bitter and I simply refuse to be. Unlike many, I am grateful for the opportunities life has given me to be even more loving and compassionate than I was as a child. Apart from my rather harrowing experience with a sociopath in more recent times, I have known the love of some really great men. That they touched my life was my greatest blessing.
You see BDJ... the true strength of a woman is not to become what people would have her be so that she fits into all those neat little compartments that make her understandable to you and that other guy... It's for her to be true to her own loving nature, in spite of your continuous need to label us all.
Femininity is sexual by nature! What would a woman use their femininity for other then as bait? Better gas mileage?
Oh Gawd!!! How sad!!!!
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 2:20:15 PM | For those of you that are so holier than thou and call yourself Christians, Jesus would not shun these women as unacceptable and he would be challenging all to pick up the first stone. I wonder, having lived through whatever she did, would the woman whom you don't know, who may be a very kind giving women who is a total asset to her community, who now has a quite respectable job, be as quick to judge others or does she really take that there by the grace of God thing to heart, since she has actually been there?
What would a woman use their femininity for other then as bait? Better gas mileage?
I have shamefully used mine when faced with a flat tire ; ( | |
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Joined: 6/4/2007
Msg: 111 | |
| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 2:21:33 PM |
Have you looked at your own posting history lately? Is there anyone you DON'T accuse of bitterness??? He's never accused me of bitterness... conceit and deserved ego, but not bitterness...
I tend to agree with BDJ when he posts... what can I say, the man has a 95% track record of being spot on with his posts/interpretations of people... | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 2:39:33 PM |
Oh Gawd!!! How sad!!!!
Well come on, help me understand what your trying to get across with that statement.
I may have joked when I asked for help in understanding your comment, but I would still like to understand your opinion/views on what the difference really is.
To me ignorance is the inability or unwillingness to learn, or the inability to explain ones own beliefs. And I'm more then willing and able to learn!
Hell send it to me by private mail. This will avoid any slander or judgemental comments from others, if thats the problem. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 2:50:14 PM |
You see BDJ... the true strength of a woman is not to become what people would have her be so that she fits into all those neat little compartments that make her understandable to you and that other guy... It's for her to be true to her own loving nature, in spite of your continuous need to label us all.
Beautifully said! | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 3:18:51 PM |
Femininity is sexual by nature! What would a woman use their femininity for other then as bait? Better gas mileage?
Just came back from a lovely lunch with Mr. Ballplayer (he paid, of course) and I used my "femininity" on him (so much fun!) when he was driving...and he slowwwwed right down! It is good for better gas mileage, too!
As for moral decay which leads to societal decay?
All of the great civilizations in history were brought down by by a simple thing as moral decay and apathy.
Remember the saying.....whilst Rome burned Nero (the biggest partyer) played...and played...
I loved that Eddie Murphy show Trading Places. The biggest bigots were the old farts that showed "tolerence" and "benovelence" for the poor and down and out. They had a "romanticized" idea of what crime ridden areas were like.
If it didn't "touch" them, just make up a belief system about it. Pretty it up.
Me? I have had occasion to walk the streets of the down & out and have looked very closely at what goes down. It tears at your spirit. Anything that profits crime are spirit and soul stealers. Crime lords have "legal" venues that help wash their other ill-gotten gains.
I will never condone anything that contributes to that. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 3:23:37 PM |
Uh huh...and this is gonna loosely translate into "she did what she had to do" and we'll call it a day right?
Please...spare me.
Ummm BDJ? You obviously haven't read this thread...
Tell you what... I'll read the "coffee" thread if you'll read this one...
Mind you, most of this whole thread is laughable. The insanity that anyone would cheer someone to have shed their clothes for cash and be passed off as a "hero".
I will also save my hero worship for the men and women who deserve it!
I tend to agree with BDJ when he posts... what can I say, the man has a 95% track record of being spot on with his posts/interpretations of people...
Well finally... something we can agree on... I have a deep and abiding respect for anyone who can state their case clearly regardless of whether or not I agree with them.
RockMan... p.m. has been sent!
Just came back from a lovely lunch with Mr. Ballplayer (he paid, of course) and I used my "femininity" on him (so much fun!) when he was driving...and he slowwwwed right down!
Oh man... "he paid of course"...
It's no bloody wonder we can't get beyond seeing one another as utilities...  | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 4:05:41 PM |
Do people really see no difference between a woman who might be showing a little skin (or posed in a provocative stance) to hopefully land her a decent man (or perhaps even a mythical soul mate!) and a stripper?
Deagleninja, of course at the deepest level, we are talking about apples and oranges. My point however was, that at some level both are also "selling" (or promoting/using/whatever you want to call it) sexuality, or an illusion of sexuality, on some level. Granted, with the stripper it's very blatant...but at the same time, aren't the women or men that are posting in provocative stances or scantily clad also essentially using their sexuality to try to achieve their goals, whatever they might be here? Be it landing a mate or what have you. That is what I find odd, that some posters refuse to acknowledge that this just *might* have a grain of truth in it. Otherwise, they WOULD be posed in a potato sack, no?
Silken, I'm sorry, but I don't really see the distinction between femininity and sexuality either in the way you've described, but perhaps that's because everyone has different tastes, and what might be a 'feminine' look for one, might be a more 'sexual' look on another. Most men and women tend to dress to their best advantage and (hopefully) appropriate to whatever the situation calls for, but again, everyone has their own personal tastes.
he paid of course...
*Sigh*. And here we are, right back at square one again. What's "of course" about it, that you expect the man to pay because you "bless" him with your 'femininity' ?  | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 4:44:11 PM | Sweetness-one - I'd say... It depends.
If they are looking for a really great match, know they are attractive, and make that clear with their pictures because they know that doing so will expand the pool of interested people - That's a different deal.
But those who are on some level looking for a sugar daddy (or momma), then they're using their sex appeal to get paid. And if those folks are looking down their nose at strippers, they should definitely do something about the plank in their own eye, imo.
To be clear, I'm not judging. I wouldn't say no to meeting a sugar momma!  | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 5:11:25 PM | re Dj Those 31 pages are the clearest examples of the "entitlement" than women walk around with these days, and in days of yore. I'd say that leaves his "bitter theory" up there on the pedestal where all manners of virtue lay. For all to see.
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Hey I was on that thread and I dont have a sense of entitlement.See its the women you choose guys.What can I say, guys keep buying me coffee, I beg, I plead but they keep on doing it.I have been known to buy a cream bun-yum- though.Dont label us all , please.Get off the cross, I need the firewood.Talk about a mutt with a bone.
So the lady who stripped and fed and educate her kids.She did not kill anyone or steal or swindle anyone.She showed her bazookas and mary Jane to some grateful men.An act of kindness and charity really.
So what if she stripped, thats her business.We can all choose our paths in this life.This was hers, it does not make her bad or nasty, just desperate and needing some cash.I am not going to judge her, I have no right.Fair play to her, I say, she earned it honest and gave some lonely men much needed relief. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 7:32:03 PM | Rock Man, I'm a little offended by this statement (for women as a whole), I actually hope that I'm reading this and taking out of context, other wise it speaks volumes for how you view women and it's despicable. IMO!
When you decide to get all gussied up for a date, you are doing the same thing as a stripper. You are selling your sexuality. You may try and say there is a big difference, but on what level? So it just boils down to being a lesser of 2 evils!
When I get "gussied" up for a date the last thing on my mind is selling my sexuality. The time I take to be presentable is simply to make a good impression, but never anything more or less than who I am. Whether I'm in jeans and a t-shirt, a dress, or coming from work and most likely in a suit, it's my confidence that sells me. While that may be perceived as sexual or attractive, so be it. It's not a conscious effort though.
Back on topic...even strippers are selling a fantasy about sexuality. It's not always their reality, to some it may be just a job. A way to make ends meet. As I stated earlier, to each their own on that. I'm not about to condone or condemn anyone for it. They have to live with the decisions they make. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 7:35:56 PM |
Deagleninja, of course at the deepest level, we are talking about apples and oranges. My point however was, that at some level both are also "selling" (or promoting/using/whatever you want to call it) sexuality, or an illusion of sexuality, on some level. Granted, with the stripper it's very blatant...but at the same time, aren't the women or men that are posting in provocative stances or scantily clad also essentially using their sexuality to try to achieve their goals, whatever they might be here? Be it landing a mate or what have you. That is what I find odd, that some posters refuse to acknowledge that this just *might* have a grain of truth in it. Otherwise, they WOULD be posed in a potato sack, no?
Agreed.
I think the confusion took over with your last question in your OP.
Would you start a relationship with them?
Many men have answered no for various reasons ranging from mine (being wary of someone really good at manipulating) to questioning the relationship endurance of someone who would choose this path. I haven't really seen anything particularly judgemental to be honest.
I think women in general may be a little sensitive of how men view them largely in part to the many unfair stereotypes they've had to confront of the years. Perhaps this is why the hypocrite label is being tossed about? I dunno.
All I know is my sky is white and I haven't a clue why.... | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 7:51:59 PM | Rock Man, I'm a little offended by this statement (for women as a whole), I actually hope that I'm reading this and taking out of context, other wise it speaks volumes for how you view women and it's despicable. IMO!
You can be as offended as you would like to be, you can even add some to it! (for women as a whole). Get offended enough to cover the women that will never read it if it makes you feel better. Because it in no way changes the point I was trying to make or take away any credibility from the statement.
That statement in no way reflects the way I view women. And I question any one's motives that would suggest that it does! We are discussing a certain topic here and that is a reflection of part of it! Or at least part of an example to explain the similarities between to two.
I would treat that stripper the same as I would treat any other woman. Like a lady! Until I was given reason to do other wise! At which point I would simply remove myself from the situation. Just like I would with one of the high and mighty self righteous judgemental types. 
Just came back from a lovely lunch with Mr. Ballplayer (he paid, of course) and I used my "femininity" on him (so much fun!) More proof that my statement has credibility! | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 8:22:16 PM | RM...I can normally appreciate your blatent honesty, even find it refreshing and at times humorous. To say that getting gussied up is doing the same as a stripper is ludacris. (Ok, there are women out there who do play up that side of themselves, whether because they think thats the best way to attract someone or that it is all they have to offer.)
Making an honest effort to look nice vs. stripping which is for the most part is an act, a persona, not reality are two different things. A stripper is looking for no more than to make money to support herself, her family, her habits, whatever. She could care less about the guy sitting at the end of the stage as long as the dollars are flying.
Looking nice for a date is an easy way of saying I'm interested in you and I want to look nice for you. Not I want to look sexy and hope you have a full wallet. Personally I can provide from my own wallet. (Yes, I will buy my own coffee  )
Maybe I'm looking at your idea of gussied up the wrong way, if so...my apologies. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 8:35:37 PM | For every woman that takes offence to my post, there is one that will show it to be more than creditable. It may not fit all and it may fit some that would like to think it doesn't. To each their own.
You know thats not the first time someone has mentioned something about a wallet.
As I am one that constantly makes fun of those who refer to women as gold diggers, it make no sense to me.
I actually find it sad that people get to the point that they find it necessary to even make such comments, just to ward off attacks. (The non-gold digger disclaimer!)
And thank you for your compliments... | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 8:58:48 PM | Your welcome...I wasn't trying to put the non-gold digger disclaimer out there. More just how I perceived your comment.
Gussied up = Stripper Behavior
Strippers = looking for money.
This is what the forums are for...a good debate. Better than reality TV any night! 
You are right, I may be offended and the next one may not be, makes us human and unique. If we all thought alike how boring would that be??? 
The coffee comment was simply my poor humor based on the 31 page "It's a Coffee" thread that I think we were all a part of. (which has finally made its way to page 8 of the dating experiences forum) | |
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