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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/11/2009 10:50:16 PM | I think it would be so much fun to pole dance. I'd love to be out there in a world of my own expressing myself in the art form of dance....
Women who are critical of those who dance should just do something else....like play tennis or golf or whatever.
You know what is ironic to me is how many women claim to be free and independent and yet, are so hide bound to what the community of "others" thinks of them or what their evanuation of them is. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/12/2009 6:22:11 AM | After reading some posts (not all), I disagree with the ones that say that it was her fault the guy took off on her, she was careless too, etc. If she had only been dating the guy for a few weeks, then yes, she would have been considered careless for getting pregnant. They had been dating for over a year when she became pregnant. While it could be said that the guy prolly showed signs of his true character throughout the course of their relationship, the point is you just dont know about a person until a crisis pops up and it is how they handle the crisis that shows what they are made of.
I was in a similiar predictament. I was with my BF for 3 years before I became pregnant. And he left me too. But, unlike this lady, I didnt become a stripper. I finished college and worked two jobs. Oh yeah, and I went after his ass for child support. It took awhile to find him (2 years). But during that time, i still worked two jobs and went back to school to get my BA. I also took care of my daughter, school activities with her and then when she slept is when I did my schoolwork. I was a pretty tired person by the end of 2 years, but I still did it. I figure my daughter will grow up to be a hard worker because she sees me work hard every day. Sure, my caseload is alot lighter now that I graduated and I got a better job, but she still saw me work hard when times were tough. And I am able to sleep at night with my morals uncompromised.
There is a fine line between providing for your children and "keeping up with the Jones'". I understand the need and desire to provide for my child, but my child doesnt have a $1000.00 stereo, she doesnt have a computer, a DS, a WII, or any other expensive pieces of equipment. She wants entertainment, well outside is full of entertainment. She plays with her friends, rides her bike, we take walks, we play catch. She has clean clothes, a warm place to sleep, and food in her belly. I am not downgrading this woman for wanting to provide for her children, but like one poster said, I think she took the easy way out; not to just provide for her children, but I imagine she wants to be able to "keep up with the Jones'". And face it, there is a stigma attached to being a stripper. Those kids are in for a rough ride when they hit school age and their peers finds out. I guess the mother wont be showing up for any Parent Occupation Day at school. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/12/2009 6:52:34 AM | "Do strippers have to deal with disreputable characters? Sure. Would you date someone who has tended bar, or taught at a rough highschool? How about a corrections officer?"
There is a pretty big difference between being a stripper or being a corrections officer or teaching at a rough highshool. The difference is she is teaching her kids that if they want to get ahead in life, then its okay to take off your clothes for men. Children learn by example. Growing up I had a friend who dropped out of school, got her GED, and instead of putting in the hours to go to college or get a decent job, she thought she would just become a stripper because they make more money. You know where that got her? Sure, she made $1000 a night, but she also got hooked on coke, raped, partied every night, and thrown in jail. Nowadays, its all about the easy way out, no one wants to put in the work and the time to truly become someone. Young girls would rather take off their clothes because they make that kind of money. There is a stigma with being a stripper. Is is fair? No. Just like its not fair to stereotype race, ethnic groups, religion, etc. Are there decent women who strip? Prolly. Are there women who honestly think there is no other option? Sure. But they are the exception, not the rule. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/12/2009 6:53:55 AM | Let's shorten this story of "triumph against all odds" a bit -
The short version:
Woman makes a poor selection in Man (dead-beat / loser / thief) - woman faces the consequence(s) of said poor choice - woman must do whatever she has to do to make up for it. We should ALL feel sympathetic towards her - after all, if it wasn't for guy X, Y, or Z she wouldn't have to strip to feed her kids.
The moral to the story?
"All men are EVIL" -- of course 
Am I closer with this one?
I like to keep it simple.
Mike | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/12/2009 7:18:39 AM | Interesting with all of the verbal pissing on this thread that not one person who has been so judgmental about a woman they don't know ever touched this post.
For those of you that are so holier than thou and call yourself Christians, Jesus would not shun these women as unacceptable and he would be challenging all to pick up the first stone. I wonder, having lived through whatever she did, would the woman whom you don't know, who may be a very kind giving women who is a total asset to her community, who now has a quite respectable job, be as quick to judge others or does she really take that there by the grace of God thing to heart, since she has actually been there? | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/12/2009 7:36:46 AM | "All men are EVIL" -- of course =quote
======================
Its as good an excuse as any I suppose.Generalizing seems the way to go on Pof.Stripping may be undignified in many eyes and theres better occupations for sure.Who knew it was so well paid, I see a career change coming on hehe.
Why the need to judge and deride someone for their choices.We all have the right to choose.Its legal and hurts nobody but the person themselves.You dont have to date one or even befriend one if you choose not to.Why then the need to judge.We cannot control others life choices, only they have that right.We may not agree but what can we do about it, nothing.
I dont agree with peoples choices, but unless I am making those choices for myself, its none of my business.She did what she thought was right.All of her choices were lacking in self responsibility from getting pregnant onwards, to her choice in men.Some people do not have the insight or knowledge to make sensible choices and have to learn from their mistakes more than others do.
Just because we would not do something , does not mean others are as wise.Tolerance and empathy are good things.
I cant see the point of going insane and anal over a cup of Coffee or petty matters.Its ridiculous, the things people get hung up on,just let it go and relax.If the girl wants to strip to feed her kids, so be it.She in the end is accountable for her actions, not any of us.Is she a hero ,maybe in some peoples eyes, she is definitely a survivor, hell I bet she buys her own coffee.
Dancing girls have always been around in various guises.A lot of women fund college working lapdancing clubs.Do I care, I do not.Would I befriend a stripper, of course.Would I date a male stripper,no problem.People are just people at the end of the day.Their job does not define them.Like every job you have the good/bad weak/strong. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/12/2009 10:59:02 AM | Strippers are a heartwarming bunch, aren't they?
We really need more gender equality when it comes to stories of rags-to-riches parasites on humanity. I think the author of this news story has captured the modern Horatio Alger story better than any motivational guru has. And just like with Bernie Madoff, who started out as a lowly plumber and eventually made his way to the very top of modern society by bilking investors for billions(yes, that's a "b", folks) of dollars; just like the Billionaire Boys Club, who cheated in order to win, and subsequently went to jail for it; just like Martha Stewart, who started a poor(well, middle class, but that's close enough) housewife and eventually became a media celebrity who ran over her illegal immigrant gardner with her car and committed securities fraud; just like Al Capone, who only commmitted "victimless crimes" such as the sale of alcohol when it was illegal, strippers can also be a great source of inspiration to millions.
(Assuming it's not by illegal means, that is).
Crap, that spoiled my whole post. What's the big deal about "illegal" anyway? We're all so politically correct nowadays.  | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/12/2009 11:18:59 AM |
So I guess my question is, does it really matter, when we hear a story about triumph against all the odds, exactly how one arrives at their personal triumph? (Assuming it's not by illegal means, that is). Or...would it make you respect one less, for having done *anything* to manage to surpass the odds that were thrown at them?
I know a couple of women who are escorts and they have provided for their kids very well.
Would you start a relationship with them?
Yes - once they were no longer doing that work. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/12/2009 2:21:15 PM | While, the OP states one woman overcame the outstanding odds of stripping, supposidly creating a stable family life, and coming out of stripping without any of the issues that generally are inherent with the trade....this is generally not the norm...
The facts are that for every one of the women OP sites....there are probably 50 women who are supporting a drug habit by stripping...while sex in strip establishments isn't condoned...what the heck do you think lap dances accomplish?...the very same posters who've stated that there's no sex in strip clubs...I've seen in different threads posting about the horrible strip clubs and what b**tardes men are for frequenting...and how men objectify women who strip...how blatently hypocritical posting. And yes...these women who support drug habits by stripping do make side arrangements for sex utiliziing the establishment they work in to find available men to solicit.
Using PlayBoy as an example of stripping for the better good...pffft...pssst...for every 1 PlayBoy there's 100 smut rags that show women engagd in sex...what planet do poster's live on that they can't see the obvious?
No...I'd never date a stripper...who knows what STD's follow her around...and what low self esteme she must have exposing her body to every Tom...Prick and Harry... | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/12/2009 4:41:17 PM | | Seeing that this is not a real "victim" situation and she attracted this type of man for a reason. I would assume that it is because her self-esteem was not very high. Reinforcing that with stripping maybe a way to make money but isn't going to help her plight, IMO. This will get transferred to the kids and the cycle will continue. Does the end justify the means and is it worth it? | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/15/2009 3:35:05 PM | | I have known strippers male and female... it's not a long term job to pursue... it's get the money and run kind of job.. but for some who have found themselves in the situation of destitution and practically living out of a car if they can't go home to Mom then it's fast money... we all have our talents so no I don't judge them. But let's hope they aren't druggies who find themselves trapped in the lifestyle... but if she has saved money to put down on a home then I'd say drugs aren't her weak suit.. and most likely realizes the short term of it all.... I doubt a stripper sleeps around any more then someone who hangs out in bars all the time... some do some don't.. but if you are smart you get the money and you get out... cross train into a career... we spend our lifes having to reinvent ourselves... but I'd rather know that the person I got involved in saw the money potential had the body to carry it off and just saw it as opportunity.. I don't want to know that they still do it.. all those women slobbering all over my guy with bulging muscles????? Lordy, trust me the guy will kiss up to someone they find revolting if she's waving a bill at him... and he'll even wink... | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 5/16/2009 10:56:23 AM |
I was watching a news story last night and in one of the human interests segments, they did a segment on single mothers that were left to raise their children on their own. Not just any single mothers that is, but women that by anyone’s standards would be considered successful. Fantastic careers, beautiful homes, nice cars and personalities that were so down to earth it was hard to believe that they lived through everything that they did and weren’t bitter or jaded towards men.
One particular lady caught my attention. She had been dating the father of her twins for just over a year when it was apparent that she was pregnant and at the first sign of pregnancy, he left her… but not before he emptied her bank account, their apartment of all the furniture, and ran up huge credit card debt for her.
As a result, she lost her apartment because she just couldn't recoup monetary losses like that quickly enough, and after giving birth to two beautiful girls after many physical complications, she also lost her job.
But, the nice side to this story was, with much hard work, trial and tribulations, this lady did indeed manage to pull herself up by her bootstraps so to speak, and not only managed to survive, but thrive. Granted, this took her two and a half years overall, but triumph she did. As of the news story, she'd just put a deposit down on her own home, was employed and thriving in her current vocation, and her children are well-maintained and happy.
So, how did she get to be so successful and financially independent from being absolutely destitute? She became a stripper!
What's amazing to me is that if you replaced the last word in this paragraph with just about any other profession, the woman in this story would possibly be paid to lecture to other women about self motivation.
But instead, we see how many, would just about want her banished from society because of her choices to "take the easy way out".
Stripping is a job, and an occupation. Period. It's also a legal occupation. Period.
Some of the depictions of what "really" goes on are not nearly as rampant as some would want to make others believe. It is not nearly as "corrupt" as it's made out to be by these same people.
Anyone who knows "anything" about the "business" will tell you how heavily regulated it is, and how sever the consequences are for unlawful activities.
There is more debauchery going on in most schools and house parties by teens than there will ever be in any strip joint.
So I guess my question is, does it really matter, when we hear a story about triumph against all the odds, exactly how one arrives at their personal triumph? (Assuming it's not by illegal means, that is). Or...would it make you respect one less, for having done *anything* to manage to surpass the odds that were thrown at them?
Of course it's going to matter to some, and not to others, whether an activity is legal or not.
What someone "did" or "does", does not necessarily preclude them from being a valuable person as a whole, or their capabilities to be successful in a relationship. Except in the minds of the ones judging them.
Would you start a relationship with them?
I have been in relationships with a "stripper" more than once. Nothing in my personal experience would preclude me from being in a relationship with one again. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 7/22/2009 10:03:00 PM |
So, how did she get to be so successful and financially independent from being absolutely destitute? She became a stripper!
So I guess my question is, does it really matter, when we hear a story about triumph against all the odds, exactly how one arrives at their personal triumph? (Assuming it's not by illegal means, that is). Or...would it make you respect one less, for having done *anything* to manage to surpass the odds that were thrown at them?
Would you start a relationship with them?
I view things completely different than most. Life, while being short, is very beautiful and it's because of the trials and tribulations that one enfures. We all go through tests and have to either sink, swim, or a combination of both. Personally, I view this entire situation like this:
1. The guy knocked her up, milked her dry, and then bolted like a pompous jackass.
2. She was dumbfounded and didn't know what to do, so she did the one thing she knew she could do to get the ball rolling, set goals, and got to getting it done. While most apparently view her route as either the easy route or at least in poor taste, what does their very own backyard entail?
3. She set goals, she obtained said goals, and got herself out of the rut. Let me repeat this, she got into dancing and knew there was a better life for herself and her kiddos, she held onto the belief of a better life and strived for it, eventually achieving it. Kudos!
Would I date her? Yes.
Would I have a long term relationship with her? Yes.
Would I possibly believe in marriage with her? Well, as much as I'd believe in the concept of marriage with anyone I reckon. However cheaply in most people's opinions, she still overcame the obstacles. In that, I respect anyone.
As for the guy that said something about being unwilling to raise someone else's kid(s), etc. Sir, you're a prime example of the kind of loser I'd rather not meet out on the street anywhere. You're a pig, pathetic, spineless, and weak! Most single mom's don't want a friggin' Daddy for their kids, they got it covered just fine on their own overall. What they do want is someone they can trust with their very own minds and hearts, and in addition their kids are a part of their minds and hearts so they want to be able to trust you with them also. This does NOT mean that they expect you to play Daddy, just friend, comrade, and fireman (make sure the kids don't catch the house on fire or start a flour fight or whatever). So straight up, get over yourself! | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 7/22/2009 10:39:03 PM | Listen, personally I would not date a man that is selling his body for money. Not that there is anything wrong with it, it is simply not a way of surviving that is acceptable TO ME. A more essential question would be: is she happy with the choice she has made? Because If she is ok and at peace with it, it does not matter what anybody else thinks. What is not acceptable according to my standards, may be perfectly acceptable according to somebody else's standard. It simply depends on the point of view. It's not me that has to live with that choice and those are not my kids. I would neither condemn her nor absolve her. It's her life after all and she is can do whatever she wishes with it. Yes, it is admirable that she was able to rise above the odds, but in my opinion the end does not justify the means.
Some people are Macchiavellian in their thinking, but I am not. I am sure that was not the only option she had to make money. Maybe the was the easiest and fastest choice, but how does she get that example across to her children? Would they learn to do the same? Or would they learn by her example that the End justifies the Means? What kind of example does she want to be? That would be my inquiry. Everybody knows that example speaks louder than money. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 7/22/2009 10:49:58 PM | | Stripping leads to sex and sex leads to STD's and the utter decimation of human morality as we know it. If she's willing to take off her clothes for a few hundred dollars a night, what's keeping her from letting a guy stick it in her for an extra $300-500 in 20 minutes? Once she becomes desensitized to the sanctity of sex, it'll never be the same again. But she's rich so it doesn't matter. I'm happy that a slut can make more money in one day than I can make in a 40-hour work period. I am jealous I can't get as many different strains of herpes and human papilloma viruses as she can. I would date her just for that alone. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 7/22/2009 10:57:22 PM | Winteragain: that was a valuable point. When does one stop? Would have she trained for another kind of job once she had had the economic basics taken care of? In the short term, that COULD have been a good strategy ( for example, having as a goal being debt free and able to pay for the her kids' education).......but when does one stop using objectionable means? Does basic survival justifies the means? Or does the End ALWAYS justify the means? As far as I am concerned how one lives is more important that what one does......meaning that the end does not USUALLY justify the means ( some exceptions granted, for example: she had no other choice available - she was forced to do that - she needed that amount of fast money, OR her principles justified it).
Yes, In general how one makes a living affects my choice as far as choosing a partner is concerned. Yes, I do care about how principled my partner is. Actually that is, for me, a fundamental indicator of the character and quality of the individual.
Never mind the fact that the meaning of 'triumph' in your writing is objectionable. Shouldn't the question be more important than the answer? | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 7/22/2009 11:29:18 PM | Its a another sad song & dance 
Seems like strippen would have been a valid reason for women
back in the old days. But in 2009 there
are so many resources available to women
who are pregnant 'homeless 'abandoned ect.....
Seems like there are so so
many choices
for women in this
type of scenario now than then .
''Some women ??? would take advantage of these resources & Choose
a higher education paid for by the state
or goverment ... medcaid ''housing '' Shelter '' and work there way up the ladder
to have a much ^^much more ' safer ' secure Lifestyle and Happy Home ! And not have depend on any Mans Lustin financially at all ........ Dunno ""as she shakes her head < | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 7/23/2009 6:21:25 PM | I forgot about this thread, and wasn't able to add more posts to it at the time anyway.
What's amazing to me is that if you replaced the last word in this paragraph with just about any other profession, the woman in this story would possibly be paid to lecture to other women about self motivation.
But instead, we see how many, would just about want her banished from society because of her choices to "take the easy way out".
Bingo, thanks for noticing! 
Which is also partly why I left the "she became a stripper" till the very end of the O-post as well.
So what is it about stripping exactly, that sets off everyone's moral alarms, and induces such vitriol? It's a legal profession, after all. Would the vitriol be equally as strong, if had been, say, one's sister who had been the woman in the story, as opposed to a potential dating/relationship partner?
So many claim the woman in this story "took the easy way out". (Some of the same posters that I see regularly in the Sex and Dating forums as well, so I'm assuming they aren't prudes themselves, judging by posting history).  But again...I bet if the story had been that this woman "busted her ass working 2 or 3 shyte jobs to pull herself up by her bootstraps etcetc"...everyone would have been behind her rah-rahing her on. If she could make a decent enough living working the one job, stripping, plus provide her children with everything they needed and not have to work 2 or 3 jobs while doing so, why is that a bad thing?
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 7/26/2009 2:20:20 PM |
So what is it about stripping exactly, that sets off everyone's moral alarms, and induces such vitriol? It's a legal profession, after all. Would the vitriol be equally as strong, if had been, say, one's sister who had been the woman in the story, as opposed to a potential dating/relationship partner?
I think some need to show that they are at the pinnacle of morality and preach down at the others that aren't doing things in a way that's in line with their own personal viewpoint. The truth is this woman is doing something morally right by her young children---she's providing for them. She's been able to turn a serious setback around and singlehandedly ensure more than a margin of stability and a real future for her family. In all likelihood, her job allows her the opportunity to look after her young kids when they are awake, and rely on care when she is dancing and they are asleep--that in itself is something that many don't have the opportunity to do. Stripping is a job, and as I mentioned in my two earlier posts pg 4...it's simplistic to assume it's an easy one for the money.
Re suspicions as to lifestyle...imo, one might as well look to the general population and the average person, as many across the ranks seem to enjoy 'booze and drugs party lifestyle', without similar condemnation merely by association.
Further the prostitute does not exist without the 'john'---I'd be much more concerned about that aspect, considering that so many men avail themselves of those services and fail at every turn to fess up to it.
It's good that she's able to support, and provide for, them. But, has she sent the message that they must disrespect themselves, and sell their bodies, in order to succeed in live?
^^^You know what...I believe people 'sell' themselves in one way or another everyday on the job. The stripper is at least completely upfront about what she is about and why she is there---so many others aren't. The reality is...it's a job---regulated and completely legal.
jmo | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 9/17/2009 5:38:27 PM | Wow... I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with Sweetest.
As a single parent, I've taken some jobs that weren't exactly what I wanted but they put food on the table and a roof over my kids' heads. I love my children enough to do that for them and I take my responsibility as a parent very seriously.
It's true too, we are all selling ourselves - bartering our services for a paycheque.
Kudos to you sweetest for so eloquently voicing your opinion... and mine. | |
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| triumphing despite the odds...would the means affect you having a relationship?
Posted: 9/18/2009 10:52:02 AM | First, Sweetness...Bravo.
It's good that she's able to support, and provide for, them. But, has she sent the message that they must disrespect themselves, and sell their bodies, in order to succeed in live?
How is she disrespecting herself? Would it be better if she sat back and collected government funds instead of going out and finding work? Sometimes in life we find ourselves in situations that are less than ideal and it's bad enough that we have to fend for ourselves, but when you have children I imagine you would do WHATEVER it takes to provide them with the necessities of life.
You may think she disrespected herself for taking her clothes off, but guess what, we are born naked, but that is besides the point. I have to ask what do you think of what Bernie Madoff did when he was fully clothed? Compared to that, there is honor in being a stripper. | |
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