| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/13/2009 9:50:49 AM | | You may not be disagreeing with me but you are still placing the blame with the media for providing entertainment which is strictly that - entertainment. When you state that it's the media's fault for reinforcing your term of "bimbo-ization", you might as well say that the media shouldn't also have news available because showing the horrors of war reinforces war, to provide shows with a criminal element reinforces crime, to show something as old as Abbott and Costello shows will make anyone watching be as ridiculous and moronic, etc. etc. etc. Common sense within one's self and teaching common sense is what rules at the end of the day. There are always going to be those that are just too thick to differentiate, no matter the form of media. Media can't be held accountable for a lack of brain cells. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/13/2009 10:00:19 AM | Oldsoul: "In one breath you state that you only presented your personal opinions and in the next, you villify me and others for presenting ours. Wth?"
Comfort: Once again, per your proclivity to misinterpret and misrepresent others statements, no one villified YOU or others for stating your opinions BUT disagreed when in lieu of stating your position in an objective manner YOU tend to personalize and become offensive/defensive! It is too bad that you misperceive this feedback as disagreeing with your opinions. Howwever if you cannot discern the difference between presenting your opinions and perspective in a respectful manner versus making personalized antagonistic remarks against another poster with whom you disagree, than that is your issue not mine.
Oldsoul: And you never once addressed any of the many points I and many other posters presented to counter your arguments (or opinions)................................. .
Comfort: Once again, you are misrepresenting facts and engaging in hyperbole to serve your interests and as a defense to deflect my feedback to you! In fact I have addressed a number of your points but you have selective attention and tend to void that which you don't wish to hear! In addition I address the points of posters who disagree with me as well, especially those who are civil, rational and receptive to discussion, not those who preface their posts with ad hominem remarks and wish to attack the messenger rather than focus on the substantive issues.
Oldsoul: And no, you nor anyone (male and female) trying to berate me/my opinions won't bimborize me into silence with you/your opinions or anyone, even if my life depended on it!
Comfort: Thank you for the comment above. It corroborates exactly what I stated regarding your heightened level of defensiveness, anger and over-personalization of an issue (ie bimbos) that was never directed to you personally but was merely open for general comment! This explains the underlying rationale for your blistering defensiveness, misperceptions and misinterpretations of what I did and did not state. Obviously you can do what you wish but understand that you lose points for crediblity when you engage in a distortion of the facts. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/13/2009 10:10:43 AM | | chameleolf, the way I see it, it is not a matter of one or the other BUT that the media, the level of parental involvement and societal and cultural mores and expectations (and there may be other factors) have significant impact on the development and formation of individuals' worldviews, value structure and belief systems as well as their character. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/13/2009 10:19:18 AM | Unfortunately, your opening post was strictly about shows, so it leads one to believe that your argument is based solely on it being the cause of "bimbo-ization". You also stated in your opening post that it dealt with women/girls alone. Perhaps, when creating a forum thread, you should be more inclusive with your ideas. Your opening post did no such thing and placed the blame (to the reader) solely on the media, if in fact, there is any such thing as a current day devaluing of women more than there has been in the past - which I happen to disagree with. In my 54 years, I can attest to the fact that there isn't from my own personal observations.
Changes in behaviour come and go in society - think of flappers when there was no such thing as TV.
VVVVVVVVVV | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/13/2009 10:37:15 AM | chameleof, thanks for the feedback. You are correct. My opening statement should have been more inclusive but I guess as the feedback and discussion evolved it prompted me to consider the multi-dimensional quality of this topic.
In regard to whether women are currently more or less devalued than in the past, I believe that due to the power of the media to reach large audiences and society's greater accceptance and tolerance towards overt sexual displays and outrageous behavior that in years past would have not been condoned, many women are actually being more devalued and are partially responsible for this outcome due to their behaving in accordance with this mind-set. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/13/2009 12:33:20 PM |
These are not isolated examples but pervasive issues
These are "pervasive issues" to those few who choose to see them as such. Judging by the responses on this thread (and by any reasonable analysis of real life) this phenomenon does not impact society the way you are claiming it does. There are plenty examples of positive role models out there to counter the "bimbo" portrayals which you say exist.
Regardless she is perceived by many of her viewing audience as being a bimbo!
You are saying that; but unless you are a professional pollster or statistician, this claim isn't backed by empirical support. You think that certain actresses/entertainers are being perceived that way; but you have no way of knowing to what extent they are actually being perceived as bimbos, or whether those perceptions are shaping the everyday behavior of the viewers.
This thread is a screed. It's a clusterfùck. It's a disaster.  It's time to send it hurtling in the downward spiral toward oblivion.
As has been stated by many posters here, people shape their own worlds and their own levels of interaction and respectability. What the media shows or doesn't show is not the determining factor as regards the quality of life of each individual. Each person's everyday reality reflects his/her own priorities and values. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/13/2009 2:17:54 PM | I am quite baffled by the level of discussion here regarding this subject matter: I think most people here agree that tv shows do not affect how people relate to each other in real life and yet this thread has gone on and on between comfort against almost everyone else. He has drawn us deeper and deeper into the abyss. Its like arguing in circles with no end in sight.
I feel so trashy, because it's so ....entertaining....its like watching a shallow, reality show of no redeeming features but getting drawn into it. Must take leave and not return..must take leave and not return...must take leave and not return.....must not return........  | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/13/2009 2:29:57 PM | television and the commercials are geared to the audience who is watching -and since most women are doing the watching. -commercials usually portray the man is a bumbling idiot, confused or not smart enough to grab a paper towel and wipe up the spill his toddler made. -they must enjoy this type of entertainment.
-as for what i watched, i liked talking cars that could drive themselves and jump through cement walls without a scratch or a crack in the windshield, van full of machine gun toting ex army guys with smart assed quips giving aid to the helpless, crime scene investigators and smartly dressed vice cops and private investigators driving ferraris to solve crimes...
nothing says clandestine like driving around, or stakeouts in a ferrari | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/13/2009 2:42:32 PM | Joffin said:
I am quite baffled by the level of discussion here regarding this subject matter: I think most people here agree that tv shows do not affect how people relate to each other in real life and yet this thread has gone on and on between comfort against almost everyone else. He has drawn us deeper and deeper into the abyss. Its like arguing in circles with no end in sight.
I feel so trashy, because it's so ....entertaining....its like watching a shallow, reality show of no redeeming features but getting drawn into it. Must take leave and not return..must take leave and not return...must take leave and not return.....must not return........
+23434534635639782342 exp.
You my friend, have insight! And what a keen one at that.
Which is worse:
1. Spending your spare time watching reality tv.
2. Spending your spare time reading about people's opinion of reality tv and it's effect on women.
They could be equally bad, but either way you are a hypocrite.
With love,
~Flava Flav III ESQ. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 6:05:23 AM | spitfire, let's get this straight. YOU conducted a comprehensive survey on this forum and in society at large definitively concluding that these are NOT "pervasive issues" but as you claim are only so "...to those who choose to see them as such?" Now I understand.  .
In fact you are merely expressing your opinion and beliefs just as I, with no more crediblity than you claim my statements don't have. In addition what posters state here may not represent the general publics perception of these issues due to the fact that psychodemographic differences exist between subject groups. So be aware that your "scientific' conclusions are spurious and misleading.
Furthermore, you are not providing any revelations when you reiterate the obvious regarding people developing their unique worldviews, priorities, values,etc. What you fail to understand is that these media shows do impact on certain individuals' perspectives and beliefs, including younger audiences, just as news commentary and political pundits can sway and modify viewers perspectives and ideology. In addition these shows reflect the cultural trends occuring within society at large and can reinforce certain patterns of behavior and attitudes in certain individuals as well. To summarily dismiss this obvious fact merely demonstrates all-or-nothing thinking which is a distortion of reality.
So my all-or-nothing friend, IF you think this thread should disappear that is your right and it is my perspective that if this thread is so irrelevant to you than perhaps you would do better attending to more relevant threads in order to share your "scientifically" based sagacity that only you possess. :roll | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 6:22:11 AM | Joffin, NO my friend, take responsibility for your own actions and cease projecting blame on another poster for the continuation of this thread. In fact, Comfort has not drawn you or anyone else "...deeper and deeper into the abyss", because the nature of this topic is a relevant one which apparently catalyzed alot of interest and a diverse number of opinions, many of which are quite relevant and enlightening, even in the face of disagreement.
In addition the ONLY "arguing" took place when certain posters came out swinging with ad hominem remarks, attacking the messenger instead of the message.
BTW, so you admit to having prurient and perverse interests in this thread. I see. Well then when can we sign you up with the Jerry Springer show. You would probably do well there.  | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 8:29:26 AM | | packagedealx3, of course the quote you note does not pertain to you! A kind, compassionate, understanding, noncombative, compromising and receptive poster who serves as a model for all of us to emulate. Thank you for pointing this out to us! | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 9:54:41 AM |
In regard to whether women are currently more or less devalued than in the past, I believe that due to the power of the media to reach large audiences and society's greater accceptance and tolerance towards overt sexual displays and outrageous behavior that in years past would have not been condoned, many women are actually being more devalued and are partially responsible for this outcome due to their behaving in accordance with this mind-set.
Have you ever heard of pre-code Hollywood? Have you ever watched a movie that was made before 1934? And that’s just the film industry in America. The entire world was a very exciting and interesting place in the years in between prudish Queen Victoria’s reign and the advent of the Hayes office. The flickers were THE source of entertainment, and many depicted the free-spiritedness and “let it loose” attitude of the times. As for audience size, silent movies were enjoyed by millions throughout the world, because anyone could “follow the story”; there was no dialog, and thus no language barriers to cross. EVERY movie was universal and no topic (e.g., sex, homosexuality, infidelity, addiction, violent crime, prostitution, rape, etc.) was off limits; and there was plenty of nudity, vamping, shimmying and other “sexual displays”. Twenty three skid-doo, oh you kid! Millions of folks also enjoyed other forms of bawdy entertainment on a regular basis (e.g., vaudeville, burlesque houses, follies, graphic novels, jazz clubs, etc.).
IMO, when codes came into the “pictures”, it stifled a lot of creativity in the movies; and it took a very long time to get it back.
And the three men I admire most
Larry, Curley, and crony Moe
They made a last stand at a Friar’s Roast
The day the movies died
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 10:11:58 AM | Chameleonf said it best!
Actually negates this entire thread!
Which is more like standing on water in the middle of the ocean.
[not advisable for prudent individuals.]
Though Frau Blucher 's mention of Moe, Larry & Curly....
We DO need more HUMOR in our lives...
And certainly the aforementioned are first class!! | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 12:52:57 PM |
packagedealx3, of course the quote you note does not pertain to you! A kind, compassionate, understanding, noncombative, compromising and receptive poster who serves as a model for all of us to emulate. Thank you for pointing this out to us!
Please let me know what does pertain to me so that I can be a good little poster. Thank you for the compliment because I think most people would agree that I am a kind, compassionate, understanding, noncombative, compromising and receptive poster, you are growing more astute. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 3:11:06 PM |
spitfire, let's get this straight. YOU conducted a comprehensive survey on this forum and in society at large definitively concluding that these are NOT "pervasive issues" but as you claim are only so "...to those who choose to see them as such?" Now I understand.
No one else but you needs to provide any empirical evidence. No one else but you is whining about media portrayals affecting society/relationships. YOU think there is a problem and you are having trouble establishing that to others. The rest of us don't have an issue with the media---YOU apparently do. We are not claiming that the media portrayals significantly impact societal behavior---YOU are. We don't have the responsibility of proving a negative: YOU have the responsibility of proving your original claim---that is, if you want to be taken seriously. I forgot though....your purpose is to get attention and spin this screed, not to truly establish your position.
As was mentioned earlier, this thread is in a tailspin, and the only thing which remains to be seen is how much it smokes and sputters before it crashes. Carry on!  | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 3:21:49 PM | I don't really think that reality shows promote "bimbos" as there usually too ridiculous (and portrayed that way on purpose - editing does wonders).
However I think it does feed into mankinds need to be judgemental..without being judged themselves.
Throughout history we have examples of this; stonings, gladiatorial games, scarlet letters, being put into the stocks etc. Where we can cheer or sneer without being put on display ourselves.
It is ironic that for some (me included, trying to get better) that we make the judgement of those who religously watch these shows as feeding into a mob mentality....but aren't we doing something similiar by being saying we're better than others because we're not sucked in? Guess it's just in human nature.
I often see the forums fermenting a similiar effect. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 4:45:59 PM | Packagedeal3x, quote: "...I think most people agree that I am a kind, compassionate.........................................and receptive poster.....""
Of course MOST people think that way because it is quite evident that you possess all of these characteristics because you told us so.
All kidding aside I am certain you are a good person, intelligent and quite attractive as well, and I mean that sincerely. Regards. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 5:34:09 PM | According to Spitfire, "No one else but you (Comfort) needs to provide any empirical evidence".
However, Spitfire previously asserted in reponse to the theme of this thread, " Judging by the responses on this thread (and by every reasonable analysis of real life) this phenomenon does not impact society the way you (Comfort) claim it does".
Spitfire let us stick with your comment above as an opener! YOU made a generalized counter claim above without one iota of "empirical" evidence except your opinion that does not disprove anything I stated! For your information my sagacious friend, if YOU are so certain I am incorrect and make a statement that says as much, I can expect that you provide substantive proof, other than your opinion, that disproves it! And by your countering that ONLY I must provide this proof is poppycock.
In fact you are infantilizing participants on this thread and treating them like dolts by expecting them to believe that because a poster who initiates a thread based on his beliefs and opinions , who never claimed to have a hold on the absolute truth regarding this topic, is SOLELY responsible for providing empirical data to support his position while YOU don't. In short in any debate the party who holds that their opposition's opening statement is invalid is responsible for proving their assertion is accurate and if they don't then their counter claims and assertions are spurious.
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 5:51:20 PM |
Judging by the responses on this thread (and by every reasonable analysis of real life) this phenomenon does not impact society the way you (Comfort) claim it does
The empirical evidence is in the observation, "...reasonable analysis of real life...", therefore, the aforementioned Spitfire has, in fact, provided her empirical data. Her observations are the data, her opinion is her analysis of the data.
This entire thread is opinion-based. As such, the opinions are neither correct nor incorrect--they are simply opinions.
And this quote:
As has been stated by many posters here, people shape their own worlds and their own levels of interaction and respectability. What the media shows or doesn't show is not the determining factor as regards the quality of life of each individual. Each person's everyday reality reflects his/her own priorities and values.
sums things up nicely. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 6:29:38 PM | geeleebee, valid points! I totally agree that this entire thread has been opinion-based and therefore the opinions are neither correct nor incorrect but are simply opinions. However, whether some opinions have more weight than others has not been established because neither I or any poster has taken the time to review the research literature to discern if there is substantive data available to support one position over the other.
In regard to individuals shaping their own worlds this is a given BUT does not lead to the generalized negation of the power of the media, as well as from other external forces, to impact on this shaping process and in my opinion it does. We do not form our everyday perceptions of reality solely from our internal experiences or in a vacuum but from the confluence of myriad external influences, such as parental values and worldviews, as well as those from teachers, mentors and other intrinsic life experiences that are integrated and meshed into our unique perception of reality. The media in its varied forms is one of these external factors and can be instrumental in contributing to the values and worldviews of individuals, sometimes positively, other times neutral and in certain circumstances, deleteriously. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 6:59:13 PM | | OP, quit trying to divert attention onto what I said, and answer my questions I asked in my last post to you. How do you figure that women watching "reality" tv is responsible for the "bimbo-ization" of women, when it really started with Hef and his ilk, all those years ago, and has escalated to the point that you can buy videos of teenage girls on spring break, acting like sluts because that's what they think they are supposed to do? I don't think it was "dancing with the stars" or "survivor" that caused it, somehow. And it's NOT women buying that trash, it's MEN. So how praytell, is the advent of "women watching reality tv" causing us to be bimbos? I really want to know how you came to your brilliant deduction. | |
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| The bimbo-ization of women and its effects on relationships
Posted: 5/14/2009 7:36:45 PM | I watch crime dramas, mixed martial arts, cooking shows, and comedy. I caught a glimpse of Bridezillas not so long ago and I actually felt sorry for the knuckleheads that just stood by and let these monsters rant all through the show and put them down. I would rather watch a whodunnit or watch someone get their ass beat than watch women put themselves down by coming out on these shows and showing the whole world how pathetic they look on television.  | |
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