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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 9:42:53 AM |
If the courts were fair in custody issues and women knew they did not have an almost 100% chance of getting the bulk of the kids time and the likely hood of child support also being ordered against the man, I bet you lots more women would pick abortion. If women thought that the man might get custody and they would also have to pay support to the man, you can bet less would be having the children out of wedlock. You see adoption is only an option for some women if they know the dad does not want the kid also, because then they would be on the hook for support if they went the adoption rout and the dad said I will take the child.
I wonder how many more women would choose abortion, adoption, or to not get pregnant in the first place if they knew 100% that the man was going to leave them and the child after he/she was born? | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 9:49:49 AM | Millions of women/couples do choose adoption or abortion when an unplanned pregnancy occurs. I am a female and for the life of men will never understand a woman choosing to raise the child of a man you barely know. And if I was a guy that did not want kids I would be 100% sure it never happened I would be Joe Birthcontrol.
I don't understand what the actual point of this thread is men get pissed if she has it without consulting them or aborts it without consulting them. Face it some men just get pissed at anything. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 9:58:46 AM | For me it does, i just do not believe in abortion and would never abort my own child, unplanned or not. The church my family attended throughout my life had us all start the Sunday service by praying for the soul of victims of abortion, that kind of sticks with me.
And if i did bear a child that i could not or did not want to take on the task of raising myself, and the child went with the father, i would pay the father enough support to provide the child a comfortable life, and do it gladly. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 10:02:56 AM | Millions of women/couples do choose adoption or abortion when an unplanned pregnancy occurs. I am a female and for the life of men will never understand a woman choosing to raise the child of a man you barely know.
Exactly. But what is even more confusing is why some of these women are surprised/mad that these men
who leave/ are unwilling to be fathers/ are unwilling to pay child support.
I think from some women's point of view, the man is just as responsible for the birth of the child as the woman, while from the man's point of view the woman was 100% responsible for the birth of the child.
My point is that men are 50% responsible for the pregnancy, 0% responsible for the birth, UNLESS he was consulted at the beginning of the pregnancy and AGREED with the woman that she should continue the pregnancy and have the baby.
And if I was a guy that did not want kids I would be 100% sure it never happened I would be Joe Birthcontrol.
REALLY!!! Why are so many men clueless in this regard??? | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 10:08:22 AM | The church my family attended throughout my life had us all start the Sunday service by praying for the soul of victims of abortion, that kind of sticks with me.
That would mean that your church felt that the soul enters at the embryonic stage (or earlier), so I wonder if the church also had you pray for the millions of embryos that were also lost because of other reasons besides abortion?
Is Heaven Populated Chiefly by the Souls of Embryos?
"If the embryo loss that accompanies natural procreation were the moral equivalent of infant death, then pregnancy would have to be regarded as a public health crisis of epidemic proportions: Alleviating natural embryo loss would be a more urgent moral cause than abortion, in vitro fertilization, and stem-cell research combined," declared Michael Sandel, a Harvard University government professor, also a member of the President's Council on Bioethics.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/34948.html
The following is from a prior post on this subject, and I'm posting it to put the above quote in context for those who may have missed this post:
Many more fertilized eggs and embryos die than ever become children, and that has nothing to do with abortion. Just trying to conceive a child causes embryonic death. So are women having children giving the death penalty to all of those other embryos? John Opitz, a professor of pediatrics, human genetics, and obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Utah, testified before the President's Council on Bioethics that between 60 and 80 percent of all naturally conceived embryos are simply flushed out in women's normal menstrual flows unnoticed.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/34948.html
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 10:14:06 AM | I've been reading all this comments on this forum and have gotten more upset the more I read. I'm a single mom of three and my last child was not planned, I won't say accident because I agree with you all there. We are adults and know the consequences of having sex, whether you use protection or not. To say a child is an accident excuse is just wrong. There are no accidents in life. A pregnancy is a consequence of our actions.
I was in the beginning of a relationship with my daughter's father and unforunately (I thought at the time) I became pregnant. I couldn't imagine my life without her now but at the time it was the wrong prossible time for another child. As soon as he found out I was pregnant he ran, its been very hard finding him and he hasn't had any contact or have given me any support for her. I have come to terns with the fact that I'm raising her myself and I am totally fine with that. My point of this story is that the father has as much say as the mother as to what happens to their child. There is always a mother and father to every child. My daughter's father made his choice to abandon his child but my door is always open to him and he knows it.
I don't agree with anyone saying the father has no say. Of course they do, they are the father. Yes its the woman's body but the baby is part of the man too. Whether or not the courts agree with me is another matter. But I firmy agree that the father should have as much as say as the mother. The father should also be able to keep a child if the mother doesn't want him or her. I'm pretty sure there are fathers out there that would carry the child for 9 months if they were able too.
The mother is usually the one the make the decision concerning the child because we are the ones carrying it. We can't walk away like the father and forget.
Anyway, I've had my say, thanks for reading and hopefully it hasn't offended anyone. I might have gotten alittle of topic too. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 10:25:04 AM | brokovich,
I don't know why you are getting upset, because you seem to be in agreement with most of the gist of this thread anyway.
The only point you made that I have a question about is this part:
My point of this story is that the father has as much say as the mother as to what happens to their child. There is always a mother and father to every child.
After the child is born, yes, I agree with you. But the father doesn't have any say in whether or not the child is born or not, unless he was consulted early in the pregnancy and agreed that the pregnancy should continue and the child should be born.
My daughter's father made his choice to abandon his child but my door is always open to him and he knows it.
That is tragic on many levels. But another one of my points is, if the father wasn't brought into the decision to have the child, why would anyone be surprised at this outcome? Would it have been better if he stayed in the child's life and financially and emotionally supported both of you? YES. But if fatherhood was forced on him against his will, we can't be shocked when he takes off. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 10:45:42 AM | Wouldn't most woman pregnant want the father to know and be a part of the process? I guess I'm just assuming but I definitely did. As soon as I found out I was pregnant the father was told and he assured me that he wanted to be involved and would be there for the child. I personnally didn't want anything from him.
I guess I didn't say that before but the father was most certainly told about the pregnancy and it was then he made the choice to run.
How can fatherhood be forced? It takes two people to make a baby as we all know so why does everything complain that fatherhood was forced on him. I'm expanding further away then this forum sorry! What about the mother?? What about motherhood being forced on her? I realize there is abortion and adoption options out there but for some people like myself they weren't options. I have two other kids and can't imagine killing one another (that's what abortion is to me). Adoption too.
I am upset when comments like that are made. Neither of us asked to have another child and he should be just as responsible for her than I am. It was his choice not to give me his true opinion on what he thought about another child. He lied to me about being here for his child so please don'y say that fatherhood was forced on him.
As soon as a woman gets pregnant a man is as good as a father in my eyes. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 11:07:01 AM | : Wouldn't most woman pregnant want the father to know and be a part of the process? I guess I'm just assuming but I definitely did. As soon as I found out I was pregnant the father was told and he assured me that he wanted to be involved and would be there for the child. I personnally didn't want anything from him.
I guess I didn't say that before but the father was most certainly told about the pregnancy and it was then he made the choice to run.
It is unforgivable that he would make those promises to you and the reneg. However, if the decision to carry the pregnancy to term was out of his hands completely, i.e. you were going to have the baby no matter how he felt about it, that puts him in a tough position. However, if the two of you had ever had a conversation about what you would do in case of an unplanned pregnancy before it occurred, and he promised to be there for you if that happened, then his actions are 100% inexcusable, in my opinion.
How can fatherhood be forced? It takes two people to make a baby as we all know so why does everything complain that fatherhood was forced on him.
It takes two people to cause a pregnancy, but only 1 person to decide to give birth.
I'm expanding further away then this forum sorry! You aren't, don't worry. You couldn't be any more ON TOPIC.
What about the mother?? What about motherhood being forced on her? I realize there is abortion and adoption options out there but for some people like myself they weren't options. I have two other kids and can't imagine killing one another (that's what abortion is to me). Adoption too. Mother hood cannot be forced on a woman, not in the United States, anyway.
I am upset when comments like that are made. Neither of us asked to have another child and he should be just as responsible for her than I am. It was his choice not to give me his true opinion on what he thought about another child. He lied to me about being here for his child so please don'y say that fatherhood was forced on him.
I don't think fatherhood is forced on men in every situation. If the father had a say in the continuation of the pregnancy, as in, "Yes, I want you to have this baby.", then no, it wasn't forced on him.
As soon as a woman gets pregnant a man is as good as a father in my eyes.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that statement is not a fact, it is an opinion. I would share your opinion if the man and woman decided to have a child together and planned the pregnancy before it happened, or if a woman asked the man if he wanted her to continue an unplanned pregnancy and he said yes. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 11:19:09 AM |
These comments are just my opinion. We can go on all day expressing our opinions. Thanks for listening.
I should have worded that differently. What I was trying to say is, it's great to consider a man to be a father
when a woman becomes pregnant, but it is important that the man feels that way too. Do you see what I mean?
I think some people may feel a certain way about something and think most people share that opinion. For example, if a woman felt that a man became a father when she became pregnant and assumed the man felt the same way, but in reality he DID NOT, then that might be the cause of heart break down the road. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 11:48:29 AM | I agree that some men are more than happy to have the woman make a decision concerning an unwanted pregnancy--- the reality is - it doesn't matter if he is happy about it or not. He has no choice.
Many, many women don't consider abortion or adoption an option-- but they do exist as possibilities. For the woman.
Men have no choice. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 12:29:15 PM | Really? The old abortion debate? C'mon it's 2009.
People will make their own decisions based on THEIR life circumstances at the time they must make the decision. Who the hell are we to judge them for what they believe is best for them, regardless of their choice.
Murder? The church? Again, it's 2009. The argument is so bloody old and tired. At one time I even agreed but then I grew up. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 12:39:21 PM | lol-- I don't want to debate abortion as a concept.
But I do wonder why a man has zero choices. He can be forced to pay up for 18 years--- or he can watch helplessly as a woman aborts his child.
I realize that these are not the only options---but he has no CHOICE
yes--- he made the choice to have sex-- so did she(theoretically)
The OP says "Unplanned pregnancy doesn't have to lead to birth or parenthood"
But it is only women who can make that choice.
for men- unplanned pregnancy leads to whatever the woman decides. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 6:03:48 PM | | I would love to see a law saying that the father does have a choice. I think the father should have just as much say as the mother even if it means that the mother carries the baby to term for the father to have and raise. I'm sure there are men out there that would want that. Men should have a choice! | |
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