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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 7:13:25 PM |
But I do wonder why a man has zero choices. He can be forced to pay up for 18 years--- or he can watch helplessly as a woman aborts his child.
I realize that these are not the only options---but he has no CHOICE
Life is so unfair to you poor guys. 
Birth control, vasectomy, not using your real name.....these are all options. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 7:40:19 PM | That is simplistic OP as well as obtuse. I believe a woman has a right to choose and if I had gotten pregnant when I was young as a result of a rape or casual sex I don't believe I would have chosen to have the child. If I had been young and was pregnant because of failed birth control when I was in a loving relationship, even if my circumstances were "not right," I don't think I could have terminated a pregnancy under those circumstances.
For other people there are religious concerns and it is not to me or anyone else to judge whether those beliefs are valid as long as someone is not trying to impose them on someone else.
It is not so much having the babies, but keeping them that is a choice and some women feel as if in a catch 22, they don't really want to have the baby at that time in their lives but really do not feel able to choose to abort the pregnancy. There are also many women with children who went to the abortion clinic and just couldn't go through with it.
Adoption and abortion carry lifetime emotional scars for women so yeah, be cavalier about one of the hardest decisions a woman may ever have to make.
I also know that many women feign pro-life status in order to have an excuse to have a child, instead of just coming right out and saying, "I wanted a child."
So, women are all plotting to get pregnant by pretending to be pro-life so that they won't have to go through with an abortion.
I forgot to add that adoption is available to women who do not want to abort a pregnancy. This once again makes parenthood a choice.
Yes, because giving up a baby and having no clue where that baby is for the rest of your adult life is fun.
A woman can not be forced to become a parent.
Really, so over the centuries before abortion, no women were forced to have a baby. My daughter knows a girl who is a senior, was poised for a full ride on volleyball. She became pregnant, her mother said she would disown her if she aborted the baby because they are Catholic. This young girl is being forced to not only have a child she is being forced to give up her dream because she can't play and won't get the scholarship. Unfortunately, while a football player that gets a girl knocked up can usually keep his scholarship and the school help the couple get married housing, etc., not the case for women who find themselves in the same position.
You are a writer and sooo not a woman, pfft. Hope you get the material you are looking for for your book. This is a very painful issue for people, you leave me without words. It is unfortunate that men don't have a say in keeping the baby but to imply that women are running around getting pregnant in undesirable circumstances just to have a kid is stupid. There are some that are plotters, yes, but the vast majority are not and the kid should pay for the foibles of its sperm and egg donor? | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 7:54:29 PM | I don't think anyone is being cavalier about the choice women sometimes have to make.
I was just trying to make the point that babies are not accidents. Pregnancy can be an accident, but a pregnancy does not automatically lead to the birth of a child. A woman's conscious choice either does or doesn't.
Many times on threads I have read here and elsewhere I see single mothers bashing the fathers of their children for abandoning them. But in situations where the two people weren't married and had never discussed having a child together, I just don't think women should be shocked when the men in these situations leave or do not want to pay child support, etc. Would it be better if all men stayed with the women and supported the child, yes. But that is the minority. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 7:59:35 PM | I also know that many women feign pro-life status in order to have an excuse to have a child, instead of just coming right out and saying, "I wanted a child."
So, women are all plotting to get pregnant by pretending to be pro-life so that they won't have to go through with an abortion. I didn't say anything even close to that.
"I forgot to add that adoption is available to women who do not want to abort a pregnancy. This once again makes parenthood a choice."
Yes, because giving up a baby and having no clue where that baby is for the rest of your adult life is fun.
I didn't say anything even close to that, either.
You are a writer and sooo not a woman, pfft. Hope you get the material you are looking for for your book. This is a very painful issue for people, you leave me without words.
How do you think the men feel who are forced to pay child support for 18 years AGAINST THEIR WILL?
It's not easy for them, either. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/13/2009 8:01:04 PM | And for hundreds of years men have walked away because they could, period. They still can and some mothers leave as well. What you see as bashing is women who are frustrated that the men are capable of physically, financially and emotionally walking away.
Each case is different and as usual, sweeping generalizations are ridiculous and prove nothing but ridiculous suppositions. And btw, my ex's ex-girlfriend got pregnant to try to keep him. It has pissed me off paying the child support for 18 years but I never once thought the child should pay for her parents' stupidity. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 7:08:03 AM |
Birth control, vasectomy, not using your real name.....these are all options.
These are options BEFORE a pregnancy happens. Once a woman is pregnant, she is the one making the choices. And the man just has to deal with it.
lol-- "not using your real name"
that's funny. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 8:15:34 AM | How about this...
when you have sex automatically assume that she WILL get pregnant. Decide if you are willing to run that risk THEN decide if you want to still have sex. Don't do it knowing that the possibility is there and then whine about the consequences.
And again.... boo hoo on the "men get no choice in it" It's a fact....it will NEVER change....why piss and moan about something you will never be able to change. If you don't like it then as I said above don't have sex because every time you do YOU (men) or running the risk of being put in that situation. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 8:26:12 AM |
And btw, my ex's ex-girlfriend got pregnant to try to keep him. It has pissed me off paying the child support for 18 years but I never once thought the child should pay for her parents' stupidity.
Interesting that you chose to refute the comment about sweeping generalizations at the beginning of the paragraph but missed that little gem.
How do you think the men feel who are forced to pay child support for 18 years AGAINST THEIR WILL? It's not easy for them, either.
Apparently I do know exactly how that feels like even though I wasn't the moron that didn't keep my pants zipped. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 9:48:08 AM | It should always be discussed BEFORE sex what would happen if a pregnancy would occur. I told my fiancee that I would have a abortion if I was pregnant up until the second month, but not past that. However, I am on the pill, and I was willing to show him the pill and let him watch me take it each morning. If I were to get pregnant and we weren't together and he wanted the child and I didn't I would gladly carry the child for him, if I wanted the child and he didn't I would raise it by myself. I'd flip burgers, work at walmart, or anything else if I needed too.
Two people make a baby, but there have been some pretty incredible kids raised by one parent, and I really hope that I could do the same. But if I decided that I wanted to carry the child and my hubby didn't want it, I would do it by myself.  | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 1:47:58 PM |
I've always strongly felt that if a person feels they are mature enough to have sex then they should be mature enough to handle whatever "accident" happens.
Ideally for the child, the couple would get married. However, very, very few of the couples who experience an unplanned pregnancy and birth do this. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 3:27:43 PM | | I agree 100% minus the fact that abortion is really expensive and some people can't afford it. I am a single mom and my daughter is 11 months old, and I am facing another unplanned pregnancy. I used 2 forms of birth control that obviously didn't work. I looked into abortion but don't have to money to get it done. I really can't raise another baby on my own, when I'm already struggling to take care of my daughter. So I do believe I will choose open adoption. that way I can still see the baby growing up, but won't have to worry about the financial obligation. I know that probably makes me sound like a bad person, but I really do have no other choice. I just believe that it's the best option for me personally. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 4:11:35 PM | I guess you just found out the rabbit died eh futureshock and now you are pissed that some woman is forcing fatherhood on you....why else would you post such a judgemental post directed solely at women.
Abortion may be a legal option, it does not make it a moral one for every woman.
Adoption may be an option but not for every woman.
All children are here because of the conscious choice of the mother AND the father to have sexual intercourse! | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 4:52:50 PM |
All children are here because of the conscious choice of the mother AND the father to have sexual intercourse!
That may be how you see it, but many people don't see it that way. Many people see it as 2 people causing a pregnancy, 1 person causing a child to be born.
If a woman wants to have a child, and does not want t give it up for adoption or have an abortion, then fine. But if the father tells her he does not want to be a father, she should be willing to do it alone. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 6:40:19 PM |
If a woman wants to have a child, and does not want t give it up for adoption or have an abortion, then fine. But if the father tells her he does not want to be a father, she should be willing to do it alone.
A pregnancy is a consequence to BOTH parties of having sexual intercourse. Why should a man not have to accept the consequences of his choices and the woman deal with the consequences for both by herself? Why should a child grow up without knowing and having a relationship with BOTH parents. Why should a child have to be hurt/punished for the choices of a parent or parents?
Until the day comes when a man can give birth, few men will ever really understand how it feels to know you are carrying a life within you. You can debate the rights of the father and the rights of the mother forever, the reality is that there is NO easy solution except for two people to make RESPONSIBLE choices about when and with whom to engage in sexual intercourse.
Perhaps generations ago (before the invention of the pill and the sexual revolution), the societal morals were truly in the best interests of children....just saying....there are costs to altering how we live our lives and the choices we make and it is about time everyone considered the consequences before they doing something so there won't be so much whining after the fact. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 6:46:47 PM | Dear OP -
What leg does logic or ration have to stand on when emotion seizes the brain?
The answer is of course, none.
You're trying to make a logical point about a very emotional issue. The fact that most people are responding thinking you're advocating for abortion just proves this fact. Logic interjected into an emotional issue is almost always contrued as an attack.
I have to completely agree with this poster.
No one who has had an abortion is going to come into this thread and post, saying, "I had an abortion, it was the greatest thing I ever did - and boy did it piss my significant other off!" because that is not socially acceptable. It doesn't mean no one has ever done it (I'm sure plenty of people have used unborn children as weapons just as regularly as divorced parents use living children) - but no one is going to come in here and brag about it.
So, putting aside women who will admit to having abortions, you will have women responding who have had children. Those women are not going to agree with you because you are asking them to rationalize choices that were made not logically but emotionally. Even the mom who opted for open adoption admitted she was doing the best she could as selfishly as possible.
When a woman aborts, it is not always done as an act to undermine a mans rights. That does not mean she isn't doing it - but a lot of courts judge our actions by 'intent'; and if the 'intent' is not to make a man feel like he has lost something important or his parental rights, then it seems rather defensive for someone to take it in that manner.
I have to wonder if this is a regular problem for you? Obviously by posting it here and bringing attention to airing out your issues (in the name of gathering research material, I am sure) its possible you are actually making a cry for help. If YOU feel like you made a poor choice in a relationship partner and she DID do you the injustice of depriving you of your paternal rights I am sorry; but its possible that even saying that males have no choice once a pregnancy occurs IS a fallacy because you could have chosen not to impregnate her.
Ultimately, this is turning into a very, VERY circular discussion, and I really do not think you are going to achieve anything other then alienating some mothers (like myself) or otherwise painting yourself to be an insensitive douche here on the forums.
Again - it was your choice to air this here, so please feel free to reap the rewards from your choices, in one fashion or another.
Wishing you good fishing!
~Mai
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 7:01:25 PM | The bottom line is, I wish more people would wait to have children until they are married. Beyond that, I am really interested in the reasons women have for having children out of wedlock.
This is becoming an increasingly serious problem in the U.S. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 7:13:19 PM | ... So you couldn't discuss a thread about america's rising number of illegitimate children? You are just spamming this topic all over the forums. I really do think you're just trolling obsessively on this subject, and I'm pretty much done feeding you.
Wishing you good fishing!
~Mai
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 7:34:41 PM | What people choose to do with their eggs and sperms, and wheather they choose to enter into marriage or not, is their business.
Unless you fathered the child, or are supporting the mother and child, or are the person adopting the child, mind your own. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/14/2009 11:10:07 PM |
What people choose to do with their eggs and sperms, and wheather they choose to enter into marriage or not, is their business.
Unless you fathered the child, or are supporting the mother and child, or are the person adopting the child, mind your own.
If this were the case, then you would be correct, it would be none of my business. However, many single parents use welfare and that involves everyone in the U.S. Besides that, single parenting causes an increase in poverty in the U.S. That also involves everyone. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/15/2009 12:15:13 AM | | so you are saying if you were to come up knocked up buy a brutal rape you would go to court and have the rapeist tried for some sort of murder all along being preg,with his child even though the same person tried to kill you and probally would have if given the chance you would still have his kid knowing in your heart he could turn out just like the rapeist that got you knocked up to begin with that you testified to to get him the death penality and you would still have his kid.how could you live with yourself if your rape kid went to school and actually raped someone?my question is this who should be held responsible the kid or you?you knew the kid was a rape baby his father was killed for rapeing you and you decide to have his kid and then his hid does the same thing his father does you the woman should be held responsible not the kid!but yoou because of your choices to keep a rape baby that shares the same DNAof his father that brutally raped you some 10 years ago the ones that decide should be held responsible!yes im pro life and i believe in the bible an eye for an eye | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/15/2009 1:01:00 AM | Yet another idiot who thinks MOTHERS are the key to this "situation"...1) abortion is killing a being..2) it takes two to make a child 3) its not always up to just the mother...so save your BS and think before you speak
Plain and simple not everyone is careless and can throw a life away so easily such as yourself, shows how much you value life in general. | |
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