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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/15/2009 6:15:05 AM | Once again, I think it's funny how many people think this thread is about abortion.
This thread is about how it's 100% the legal right of the mother to decide what happens after pregnancy, so to expect a man to just happily accept her decision on it without being given any input and assume the role of a father is stupid.
Some of the chicks posting on here obviously lost their brains with the afterbirth.
Yay for vasectomy! | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/15/2009 6:15:35 AM |
its not always up to just the mother
It always takes two to make the baby. Both people should take responsibility of birth control, if they don't want to be a parent.
BUT--- once a woman is pregnant---it is just up to her.
Not everyone has the same views on abortion. In Canada (where I live) it is a legal option. In Ontario, it is covered in some circumstances by OHIP.
The man has no say. None. He also doesn't have a say if the woman decides to have the baby --he will pay child support.
But there are other posters who have a good point of--- well, that is the way it is, suck it up, if you can't deal with the risk-- keep it in your pants!
It isn't really going to change. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/15/2009 7:38:38 AM | Really, what percent of pregnancies are "accidents"? Very few pregnancies have occurred when a girl/woman was on a regular form of birth control and insisted on using a condom.
My pregnancy was not an accident ... really. I chose to have sex when I knew I was not "covered". My choice, plain and simple. It was my body at risk of getting pregnant, so I assume full responsibility. Single parenthood with no association with, or support from the "sperm donor" was my consequence for my choice.
Sure, abortion was an option ... as was putting her up for adoption ... but there is no reason on god's little green earth that I would have considered either. Yes, giving birth to and raising my child was fully my conscious choice.
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/15/2009 11:07:05 AM |
It always takes two to make the baby. Both people should take responsibility of birth control, if they don't want to be a parent.
BUT--- once a woman is pregnant---it is just up to her.
That is correct, BUT unless the man has a mental deficiency, he KNOWS that babies are made by having sex, this didnt start happening last Tuesday. So for all you men that are complaining that it isnt fair that you can get stuck having to pay for a child you didnt want, you can actually take some control and make sure that you are ONLY having sex with women that you know their views on pregnancy. Or you can go out and get yourself snipped if you are so worried about having to pay up! You have choices, they are just ones you dont like.... | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/15/2009 2:24:39 PM |
Once again, I think it's funny how many people think this thread is about abortion.
This thread is about how it's 100% the legal right of the mother to decide what happens after pregnancy, so to expect a man to just happily accept her decision on it without being given any input and assume the role of a father is stupid.
Some of the chicks posting on here obviously lost their brains with the afterbirth.
Yay for vasectomy!
THANK-YOU!!!!!!!!! | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/15/2009 2:28:40 PM |
Really, what percent of pregnancies are "accidents"? Very few pregnancies have occurred when a girl/woman was on a regular form of birth control and insisted on using a condom.
My pregnancy was not an accident ... really. I chose to have sex when I knew I was not "covered". My choice, plain and simple. It was my body at risk of getting pregnant, so I assume full responsibility. Single parenthood with no association with, or support from the "sperm donor" was my consequence for my choice.
Sure, abortion was an option ... as was putting her up for adoption ... but there is no reason on god's little green earth that I would have considered either. Yes, giving birth to and raising my child was fully my conscious choice.
Author: futureshock
Thank-you for your honesty. I completely understand why a woman who got pregnant on purpose or didn't prevent it would not consider abortion or adoption. It was a wanted pregnancy. I'm just saying, be honest about it as this poster is.
Again, many of the 40% of births to unwed mothers are wanted/not prevented. I am just asking WHY these women chose to have children out of wedlock. Were they hoping the man would propose marriage and they would become a family? Did they just want a baby? Or was it something else? | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/15/2009 2:33:38 PM | It always takes two to make the baby. Both people should take responsibility of birth control, if they don't want to be a parent.
BUT--- once a woman is pregnant---it is just up to her. That is correct, BUT unless the man has a mental deficiency, he KNOWS that babies are made by having sex, this didnt start happening last Tuesday.
I don't think you are getting the point here. Besides, having sex doesn't automatically lead to pregnancy. Not using birth control does.
So for all you men that are complaining that it isnt fair that you can get stuck having to pay for a child you didnt want, you can actually take some control and make sure that you are ONLY having sex with women that you know their views on pregnancy. Or you can go out and get yourself snipped if you are so worried about having to pay up! You have choices, they are just ones you dont like....
That would be ideal, yes.
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/16/2009 1:01:25 AM | I think from some women's point of view, the man is just as responsible for the birth of the child as the woman, while from the man's point of view the woman was 100% responsible for the birth of the child.
My point is that men are 50% responsible for the pregnancy, 0% responsible for the birth, UNLESS he was consulted at the beginning of the pregnancy and AGREED with the woman that she should continue the pregnancy and have the baby....
~futureshock~
^^^^You hit the nail on the head!!! So basically what your saying is... UNLESS a man has the final decision making power to decide how the woman will deal with the unplanned pregnacy, it should negate any and all responsibilities he has towards a child, and excuse any consequences for his actions in making the decisions he made to have sex with a woman where the unfortunate side effect of that was an unplanned pregnancy?...stay with me...I'm getting warm right?
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Many times on threads I have read here and elsewhere I see single mothers bashing the fathers of their children for abandoning them. But in situations where the two people weren't married and had never discussed having a child together, I just don't think women should be shocked when the men in these situations leave or do not want to pay child support, etc. Would it be better if all men stayed with the women and supported the child, yes. But that is the minority.
~futureshock~
^^^^^^^I think you are reading emotional statements and taking them as fact....just as your factual posts are causing some emotional responses...
I don't think women are shocked at men not wanting to give up their paycheck for childsupport...Personally, I can tell you I am shocked at the lack of basic human instincts that some men have displayed for their own flesh and blood. It is something that most mothers have difficulty comprhending. It truly does take a souless person to walk away from a child without concern or regrett.
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many single parents use welfare and that involves everyone in the U.S. Besides that, single parenting causes an increase in poverty in the U.S. That also involves everyone.
~futureshock~
^^^^That is a poor excuse for your opinions. If you were truly concerned about the increase of single parents...you would be focused more on how to solve the problem of unplanned pregnacies and women living in poverty..and not so much about placing the blame or burden on a woman who gives birth. It is glaringly obvious that none of your arguements presented scenerio's where the father wanted to continue an unplanned pregnancy that a woman wanted to terminate....hmmmm...
There is a reason that our Father's put away the shotguns....we call them lawyers and poloticians...and forgive me if I am wrong....but aren't they elected by the majority to make policies and laws....oh yes....it is called democracy!....
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/16/2009 5:14:05 AM |
These women have children because they want to
Here is an anology for your consideration....
You are driving down the road going a bit too fast for road conditions and you get into an accident. You break your back and are now faced with a life as a wheelchair user because of your decision to drive too fast in bad road conditions. You didn't get into the car with the intention of becoming a para/quadraplegic but that is the situation you find yourself in. We generally call that an "accident", right?
Few of us unwed mothers are idiots who don't know that sex can lead to pregnancy but we weren't thinking it would happen.....we were in the same mindset as the person who got behind the wheel of the car. We find out we are pregnant, and just as the driver of the car, we cannot change that fact because abortion is NOT an option for us anymore than turning back time is an option for the driver. There are no "do-overs".
So now we are pregnant and scared as hell......whatever are we to do now? Well, look around....there is little stigma attached to having a child out of wedlock these days but are we emotionally/financially ready to assume the responsibility. If we aren't, we might consider adoption but if the father is wanting to raise the child with us then adoption becomes less of an option. Perhaps the father wants nothing to do with us or the child he has helped to create (his choice to have sex with us) but we can provide emotionally/financially for the child, time to suck it up and get comfortable with the reality that in a short time, we are going to become a full-time mommy. Perhaps we know we can't emotionally/financially provide for a child but we have seen others in the similar situation we are in on welfare and they seem ok....if it is good enough for them, it is good enough for us.
You ask a question is a seemingly simple way but in reality, there is no simple answer to your question. There are so many specifics in that 40% that that 40% cannot be put into a little box.
they were freely chosen by their birth mothers
Yes, a woman does decide what can be done to her body. That is not going to change anytime soon. Men simply cannot get pregnant, if they could I'm sure we ladies would gladly let them assume the responsibility of finding themselves in this type of situation and making the very tough choices.
If a man finds out he has created a life with a woman, I suspect he feels something about it. Perhaps he feels trapped if the pregnancy wasn't planned first. He knows he is now at the mercy of her choices. He may not want to be a father and prays that the pregnancy just "goes away" or that the mother is willing to let him off the hook emotionally and financially. Both are in my opinion, a response of his wanting not to accept the responsibility for his own actions. If she won't abort, he doesn't understand and feels angry. If she has the baby and exercises the right she has for child support, he will probably also feel angry even if he grows the love the child. He may be mature enough to realize that he is also responsible for the position she is now in (an egg needs a sperm to fertilize after all) and will share the responsibility with respect for her choices, he won't abandon, he will talk and listen, he will be honest and open with her so they can make a decision they can both live with. He will be the best father he can be realizing he is going to be a father in a very short time, or he will help to choose a good family to raise their child, or he will be emotionally supportive if she agrees to have an abortion.
Again, you ask a simple question that doesn't have a simple answer because every man who finds himself in this situation is an individual who will handle it differently. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/16/2009 5:35:42 AM | Before the pill, birth control was in the hands of the men. Every city in every state had orphanages packed to the rafters with kids that women could not afford to raise alone and the men either did not know about them or chose to forget. If you read their histories most were not actual orphans but dropped off by a family member. An unwed woman, her parents, or a father who's wife or GF had died in childbirth or worse married with too many mouths to feed already.
Now women can prevent pregnancy on their own and choose or not to carry a life. So why is it suddenly driving men crazy? | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/16/2009 6:34:06 AM |
Few of us unwed mothers are idiots who don't know that sex can lead to pregnancy but we weren't thinking it would happen.....we were in the same mindset as the person who got behind the wheel of the car. We find out we are pregnant, and just as the driver of the car, we cannot change that fact because abortion is NOT an option for us anymore than turning back time is an option for the driver. There are no "do-overs".
Was the woman doing everything in her power to avoid pregnancy? Was she taking the pill and insisting on the use of condoms? This is not the case in many, many pregnancies. Many women welcome the thought of being pregnant. These are the women I am most concerned with. As for women who absolutely could not abort OR put a child up for adoption, those are STILL choices even though THEY don;t choose them. It is not the man's fault that the woman feels this way. If a woman is truly in this situation, she should communicate that to the man BEFORE they have sex, because MOST women ARE NOT like this, and most men are not expecting that they are sleeping with someone that is that opposed to both abortion AND adoption. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/16/2009 6:39:43 AM |
Yet another idiot who thinks MOTHERS are the key to this "situation"...1) abortion is killing a being..2) it takes two to make a child 3) its not always up to just the mother...so save your BS and think before you speak
Plain and simple not everyone is careless and can throw a life away so easily such as yourself, shows how much you value life in general.
Don't get pregnant in the first place. Don't have sex without at least 2 forms of contraception. Don't have unprotected sex and just "see what happens." That is THE SAME THING as getting pregnant on purpose.
The "I could never abort or ive a child up for adoption" line is an excuse in MANY, NOT ALL cases. Almost half of all women in the U.S. will have at least one abortion by the time they are 45. The majority of women who have abortions (61%) already have at least one child. Many women who have children out of wedlock with the reason that they don't believe in abortion have abortions anyway with future pregnancies.
Just the act of having sex causes more embryos to die than are ever born. If a woman is really so freaked ouit about causing the death of embryos, she should NEVER have sex, never breast feed, never drink coffee, etc., etc. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/16/2009 6:48:24 AM | futureshock, why are you most concerned about anyone? What people do with their lives is really none of anyone else's business. How do you know what MOST women ARE like and what MOST women's beliefs are? You make some pretty significant assumptions about motivations of women and while your profile suggests that you are a woman, you sound much more like a man who dislikes women.
The mindset in my example were the same, both knew there were risks, both didn't protect themselves against the risks. Anytime you get behind the wheel of a car and drive too fast for road conditions, you should know there is a risk you could get in an accident and hurt.
So what is your solution to the "problem" you have with "those" women? Sterilization? Chastity belts? Forced abortion? Forced adoption if you are not deemed to be in a position to take care of your child financially? Please share YOUR solutions if you dare....I'm curious to know what your idea of the perfect society is.
Females who intentionally set out to get pregnant to "trap a man" or to "have someone to love" have issues, no doubt and a child will not solve their problem. Perhaps the solution to dealing with these types is to educate males about their existence and how to spot them. Two people can prevent a pregnancy...a female and a male.
I wonder if/when they will finally come out with a pill for the male to take to prevent pregnancy....how many of them would take it? | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/16/2009 8:52:56 PM |
futureshock, why are you most concerned about anyone? What people do with their lives is really none of anyone else's business
This is why I care:
As detrimental as divorce can be, its consequences are eclipsed by those produced by out-of-wedlock births. With rare exceptions, having a child out-of-wedlock is almost certainly a disaster for both the mother and child. The Heritage Foundation report concluded that a single-parent family background and the poverty that usually accompanies it put affected children at higher risk of dropping out of high school, unemployment and becoming out-of-wedlock teen parents themselves.
These children also miss more days of school, have lower educational aspirations, receive lower grades and eventually divorce more often than other adults. And in comparison to children from two-parent families, children born out-of-wedlock are predisposed as adults to antisocial behavior, anxiety, depression, hyperactivity, dependence and suicide.
http://www.dailytexanonline.com/opinion/the-value-of-family-values-1.953128 | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/17/2009 8:54:29 AM |
Yay for vasectomy!
Especially in your case...
Hmmm... let's see. If I get pregnant, it is my body that is going to have to go through pregnancy and childbirth (and that's just the beginning). How foolish of me to have the majority vote on what to do with him/her/them!
Hereafter, before I have sexual relations with a man, I will make him sign a waiver stating that: (1) he knows that sex may lead to pregnancy, even while using birth control and (2) I do not subscribe to abortion or abandoning my children, planned or not.
Therefore, if a child is produced by our union, due to mutual agreement or court order, he will be: (1)required to pay a pittance of child support every month that wouldn't keep a dog in puppy chow until the child is 18; (2) given the option to help raise the child or give up parental rights so I can do it without his or his family interfering, out of a sense of misplaced duty or revenge; (3) able to miss out on the blessings of sleepless nights, poopy diapers, fevers, shots, nagging to do chores/homework, teen ANYTHING [attitudes, pregnancy, drug addiction, PMS, etc.] ... and still be able to say "I'm his/her father" when he/she graduates high school/college/becomes famous/wins the Nobel Prize/makes the first mill - even though basically all he did was (maybe) give 15 minutes of pleasure one time and donate sperm, then bit ch about her having a child and keeping it.
Do you think I'd get much play? 
*bows* Thank you.  | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/17/2009 9:00:31 AM | so you are left-wing....please note that that is but one perception...
There are a great many children who are in two-parent families in middle to upper class socioeconomic groups who grow up to be very dsysfunctional adults.
I suppose if you want to take a specific group and put them under a microscope and do studies based on a sample, you could achieve whatever result you wish to have. In their "study", IF they focused on lower socio economic groupings or certain cultural groups more so than others, the results could be quite different.
That is the problem with studies and stats in general........they can be manipulated by not choosing a truly representative sample to study. If you believe everything you read by a group that is already biased before they begin a study.....well hon, that is on you, but do not expect me to buy into it or anyone else.
I think it is wrong for you to post this stuff essentially telling women that they shouldn't have children out of wedlock.....how very judgemental of you.
I'm still waiting to hear what your view for a solution is.......... | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/17/2009 9:15:51 AM | Especially in your case...
You bet! I don't take this as an insult at all! I am obviously an intelligent person, I know how to use birth control, and I'm not so stupid as to take a girl's word for it that she's on the pill...
So I don't have any mistakes! I can move whenever I want, I don't have any baby bills, didn't have to deal with a parasite in my significant other for 9 months, have no baby mamma drama, and don't have to go to PTA meetings or kid myself into believe that my f**k up was a "blessing in disguise."
You bet that especially in my case..... a vasectomy is going to rock! I know my friends with kids absolutely adore their children, but the ones who are honest enough will admit that they are jealous sometimes about how adventurous and uninhibited my life is. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/17/2009 9:31:51 AM |
A man has 0 legal say on what happens after pregnancy. Period.
And on top of that he has to pay child support most of the time. Like you said - it takes 2 to tango, and condoms and birth control are not infallible.
The man had 4 choices he had to take before he even got into that situation:
1) have sex with her or not
2) wear condom or not
3) who to do it with
4) how much to know about her before doing it
It did not just fall out of the sky.
I would like to hope that he was aware that condoms are not infallible and therefore that he is taking this risk by doing it in the first place. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/17/2009 9:37:54 AM |
However, it does seem unfair to men to have no say in the matter
That is the risk men are knowingly taking.
Many men deal with an unplanned child honorably, by supporting the child emotionally and financially. However, many men don't.
That is the risk women are knowingly taking.
The nature gave us (women) the power to decide and with that the greater responsibility over the outcome of the decision. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/17/2009 9:40:39 AM | The woman had to know that too....
I'm sorry ladies - I really not trying to white knight the OP here, I just want to make sure his point is getting across.
The point is that it takes 2 to tango. BOTH people consentially having sex make a baby or potential baby.
But only a woman has any legal say in what happens then. So for her to NOT consult the man, have a baby, and the just -assume- he will assume the role of a father or happily want to be in that child's life is....
retarded.
Both people are responsible if there is an accidental conception, but only the woman has the power and legal right to decide what to do about it at that point. | |
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| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 5/17/2009 9:43:06 AM | | same old "not MY Fault " argument, Lets just state the obvious, weve just removed the term "Final solution" (germany, 1935- 1945) To " choice" 1974- present. you can "call" it what you want, but the end results are pretty much the same. Hell, even Roe, of roe vs wade is protesting "Obama" at notre dame. (in favor of LIFE !!!!!!!!!!!!) you know, that word that appears in that silly little "judgemental" document called , the bill of right's | |
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