|
|
|
|
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 6/30/2009 7:58:42 PM | You may be right FutureS, looking on the back of the photo i have 11 weeks written down.
Still looks very much like a shrimp-person. I had a internal ultrasound and got a good view of an already working and functioning system, so yeah i think unborn babies are just as human as a already born child. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 6/30/2009 8:33:10 PM |
so yeah i think unborn babies are just as human as a already born child.
Being human is not the same as being a person [the personality of a human being : self; one (as a human being, a partnership, or a corporation) that is recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties]. | |
|
| |
| |
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 6:42:18 AM |
I personally think abortion is murder, i mean if you didn't want to get pregnant, use protection....its that easy.
If you don't have protection available, don't have sex.
Plenty of women only have an abortion if their birth control fails, i.e. condom breaks, etc. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:02:34 AM |
I believe so as well sweetguy.
Thats why i did not abort my partnership corporation shrimp-person.
I didn't have an abortion either, but that's because I believe it is wrong for myself.
I wish people would stop pushing their beliefs onto other people.
Abortion is not murder, and so far people have tried to argue that it is murder in the eyes of God and proved wrong, or that it is murder in the technicalities of the law and been proved wrong.
Nobody should have to listen to any of you go on about how abortion is murder. Having a child that you cannot care for affects so many lives, including the person you raise. Many of you have done and are doing a fine job, but there are so many men and women who aren't. There are women who live in secret regret after having been forced by their families to believe that abortion is murder, when it is a basic human right of a woman.
No, not everyone can or will do it. If a woman believes that is the best outcome for herself, and that she cannot handle or afford being a parent, why should she have people like so many of you going on and on about how she's a murderer? It's sad that so many self-righteous people with their distorted views being passed as truths don't consider that children born into those situations and how much they could suffer if a mom has a child she doesn't want. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:14:41 AM | | Box, so ur saying ASSAULT isn't enough to make someone feel like their life is in danger????? If so, then you have some messed up view. An assault can make someone feel threatened. Especially a pregnant woman. And a fetus, does count as a person. The fetus is a LIVING person inside the woman. So therefore, it can be considered murder if some assaulted the woman causing her to lose the baby. I have not missed the point of this thread. He assaulted her and killed her. It doesn't matter whether it was pre-meditated or spontaneous. He still ASSAULTED her therefore killing her and her unborn child. Im am not unclear of anything. | |
|
LSS145
|
Joined: 6/19/2009
Msg: 1133 | |
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:18:22 AM | do any of you guys have any idea what an abortion actually is?
if you're unlucky enough to wait more than 3 weeks from your conception date (and let me say that three weeks is 21 days, that's one whole week short of the menstruation period .28days. which missing is how most women realize they might be pregnant) and you can't just eat a pill that makes you violenty ill for 24 hours.......
someone sticks two long needles with scapulas on the ends of them inside you after they give you a pill to induce cervical dialation and then cut the fetus or 'shrimp-like being' into small enough peices to fit through the opening of your vagina.
just to clarify. anyone that doesn't believe me, google abortion. there are plenty of images and procedures on the web.
afterwards (if there were not complications like say, the scapula cut YOU and now you have to have a hysterectomy, or maybe your cervix was traumatized and scarred so you'll have complications with your health for the rest of your life, or a larger chance of getting cancer....) you're body thinks you've given birth. which means all the hormones that you were supposed to be gradually getting over your pregnancy are rushing to catch up with you, you're chance of depression increases, and your mind and body aren't able to work together for a while.
so.. let's see....
my options:
do i want to be a mother and give birth to and raise a miracle that started with an accident?
or do i want to have a surgical procedure that might cost me my life or my womanhood to kill an innocent accident?
hmm. the answer is different for every woman, and call me a feminist, but i don't think any MAN has any right to question or even form an opinion based on the decisions a woman makes about her own body. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:40:49 AM |
Box, so ur saying ASSAULT isn't enough to make someone feel like their life is in danger????? If so, then you have some messed up view. An assault can make someone feel threatened. Especially a pregnant woman. And a fetus, does count as a person. The fetus is a LIVING person inside the woman. So therefore, it can be considered murder if some assaulted the woman causing her to lose the baby. I have not missed the point of this thread. He assaulted her and killed her. It doesn't matter whether it was pre-meditated or spontaneous. He still ASSAULTED her therefore killing her and her unborn child. Im am not unclear of anything.
I think you need to re-read thoroughly what I typed.
The legal definition of assault includes feeling threatened. It is also not my view. It is the legal definition of assault. Spontaneous abortion is another name for miscarriage. A fetus is not a living person. It is a living fetus. The statute in California that allowed him to be convicted of murdering their unborn son specifically states, "Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought." These are all facts.
It does matter that it was premeditated. The definition of malice aforethought for murder is the presence of mens rea (Latin for "guilty mind") which must accompany the actus reus of death. In simpler terms, the person who ends the life of another had to have the knowledge that his actions would result in the death of the other person or fetus.
Assault is not the same as murder. Assault is not the same as battery. Assault is not the same as attempted murder. There are specific legal definitions for each of these.
I have a high level of tolerance for people who do not read enough and do not know what they are talking about, but you are really pushing it. The fact that you call my informing you of the laws and legal definitions my "view" is just downright ignorant. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:47:31 AM | lss145:
Not everyone views being pregnant as a miracle. Most of us know what is involved in the different types of abortions available. Not only because some of us have considered it or been through it, but because we read and want to be knowledgeable. Some women may have the procedure done not knowing what is involved in the abortion they follow through with, and if you want to make a difference start counseling at a clinic that performs abortion to make sure all the women are fully informed and can handle the abortion and the stress that could come afterward.
There are also plenty of women who have had abortions that do not feel the way you describe post-abortion.
Not every woman that gets pregnant should be having a child. There are so many women (single or not) that neglect their children and they grow up at a huge disadvantage for that fact.
You forgot that adoption is another option. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 8:42:17 AM | if you're unlucky enough to wait more than 3 weeks from your conception date (and let me say that three weeks is 21 days, that's one whole week short of the menstruation period .28days. which missing is how most women realize they might be pregnant) and you can't just eat a pill that makes you violenty ill for 24 hours....... I don't even know what this means.
someone sticks two long needles with scapulas on the ends of them inside you after they give you a pill to induce cervical dialation and then cut the fetus or 'shrimp-like being' into small enough peices to fit through the opening of your vagina.
do i want to be a mother and give birth to and raise a miracle that started with an accident?
or do i want to have a surgical procedure that might cost me my life or my womanhood to kill an innocent accident?
This is so wrong it is actually hilarious. Also, at the same time it is sad because an adult really should know a little bit more about biology than this abysmal display.
Look, if you want to believe lies about abortion so you can defend the fact that you were a teen mother, go right ahead. But please stop insulting the intelligence of the rest of us. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:31:13 AM | | Where did I say that assault is the same as murder, battery, etc???? Nowhere!!!! Im not challenging ur views. The laws in california alone are not the same as every d*mn law in the state. I didn't call any of your views or whatever you please to call it names, so don't call mine ignorant. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:42:03 AM |
Where did I say that assault is the same as murder, battery, etc???? Nowhere!!!! Im not challenging ur views. The laws in california alone are not the same as every d*mn law in the state. I didn't call any of your views or whatever you please to call it names, so don't call mine ignorant.
Here is what you said:
And a fetus, does count as a person. The fetus is a LIVING person inside the woman. So therefore, it can be considered murder if some assaulted the woman causing her to lose the baby. I have not missed the point of this thread. He assaulted her and killed her. It doesn't matter whether it was pre-meditated or spontaneous. He still ASSAULTED her therefore killing her and her unborn child.
Everything in this statement is incorrect by definition.
you have some messed up view.
I corrected you. I have not stated my opinions at all, I am just telling you what the law in California has been revised to include. The legal definitions of the terms I described are not varying from state to state. Each state has amended the law to include and exclude various circumstances. California is one that has added the word fetus to the murder statute.
I have not found a case of assault on a pregnant woman, causing a miscarriage, that resulted in murder charges. I have a personal experience with somebody trying to file charges against someone in a car accident for vehicular homicide against her unborn child. The charges were thrown out almost immediately. The driver of the other vehicle had a blood alcohol level that was twice the legal limit, and he was driving into oncoming traffic.
I said it was ignorant to call my informing you of definitions and statutes my view. I did not call you ignorant.
If I wanted to be rude, I would recommend you take a reading comprehension class, but I won't do that either. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:16:20 AM | | We have a current case here in Oregon of a female cutting a nearly full term baby ( I am not sure how many weeks) from another womans body. Under Oregon law she can only be accused of murder of the mother, not the child. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:43:04 AM | | Looks like u are the one in need of reading comprehension classes. I said that it can be considered murder if someone assaulted her.... not the same as murder is assault. As well as I didn't say you called me ignorant. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 12:51:43 PM |
Looks like u are the one in need of reading comprehension classes. I said that it can be considered murder if someone assaulted her.... not the same as murder is assault. As well as I didn't say you called me ignorant.
I didn't say you needed them. I said I wouldn't say that.
And again, it is not considered murder if someone assaults a woman and she has a miscarriage, and until you find a case that proves otherwise, I will stand by that.
If someone violently attacks a person (not fetus) without intending to kill them, but they die, they are usually charged with involuntary manslaughter. Again, not assault.
I misread "mine" as "me". Either way, I didn't call your views ignorant either. I'm not going to repeat myself. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 12:52:33 PM |
We have a current case here in Oregon of a female cutting a nearly full term baby ( I am not sure how many weeks) from another womans body. Under Oregon law she can only be accused of murder of the mother, not the child.
Thank you for that example, Opie. | |
|
| |
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 1:07:43 PM |
Welcome Bosox, I think the law has something to do with proving the child had taken it's 1st breath..
The Born-Alive Infants Protection Act was the same Act that prevented my friend from pressing vehicular manslaughter charges against the drunk driver in her case. All the other cases I've read about had the same ruling due to that act in some way.
The only cases that have resulted in Murder charges of a fetus, that I can find, have been premeditated and in states that have had their Murder statutes amended to include the word "Fetus". | |
|
LSS145
|
Joined: 6/19/2009
Msg: 1145 | |
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 1:14:48 PM | i'm not calling anyone ignorant, least of all you Future.
there would be no point in telling an ignorant person that they're ignorant, unless i wanted to take the time to educate them, and i don't, especially not on a public internet forum.
and i'm not trying to justify my own situtation or my own decision.
I'm just saying that adoption and abortion are both choices that affect women alot more than most people realize. the mental and physical health of a woman should be the main concern, not whether or not a fetus is being killed unfairly. and i'm sorry that you think it's funny, because even though most government certified abortion clinics use more humane ways, alot of abortion clinics still do use those methods.
and yeah, some women don't have the traumatic effects i said were possible, but some do.
you posted this topic knowing that its controversial, so don't get offended by what you percieve as an affront to your intelligence, when it's actually only a personal opinion you pretty much solicited. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 1:24:41 PM | What does this part mean?
if you're unlucky enough to wait more than 3 weeks from your conception date (and let me say that three weeks is 21 days, that's one whole week short of the menstruation period .28days. which missing is how most women realize they might be pregnant) and you can't just eat a pill that makes you violenty ill for 24 hours.......
| |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 6:46:26 PM |
And again, it is not considered murder if someone assaults a woman and she has a miscarriage, and until you find a case that proves otherwise, I will stand by that.
First off, Im not sure as to why you keep referring to the Infant Born Alive Protection Act when discussing whether causing a miscarriage can lead to criminal penalty. The Born Alive Act was enacted to protect infants when they survive an abortion and it requires that they receive medical attention instead of being "left to die." There is another act, the Unborn Victims of Violence Act that specifically refers to what you are talking about. In certain states the law DOES acknowledge that fetus' are "persons" and yes, someone can be convicted of a crime when committing acts of violence towards a fetus whether it be assault of the mother, or murder of the mother which subsequently results in fetal death.
MISSOURI:
In the 1989 case of Webster v. Reproductive Health Services (492 U.S. 490), the U.S. Supreme Court refused to invalidate a Missouri statute (Mo. Rev. Stat. 1.205.1) that declares that "the life of each human being begins at conception," that "unborn children have protectable interests in life, health, and well-being," and that all state laws "shall be interpreted and construed to acknowledge on behalf of the unborn child at every stage of development, all the rights, privileges, and immunities available to other persons, citizens, and residents of this state," to the extent permitted by the Constitution and U.S. Supreme Court rulings. A lower court had held that Missouri's law "impermissibl[y]" adopted "a theory of when life begins," but the Supreme Court nullified this ruling, and held that a state is free to enact laws that recognize unborn children, so long as the state does not include restrictions on abortion that Roe forbids.
In State v. Knapp, 843 S.W. 2nd (Mo. en banc) (1992), the Missouri Supreme Court held that the definition of "person" in this law is applicable to other statutes, including at least the state's involuntary manslaughter statute.
PENNSYLVANIA:
On December 27, 2006, in the case of Commonwealth of Pennsylvania v. Bullock (J-43-2006), the Pennsylvania Supreme Court unanimously rejected an array of constitutional challenges to the Crimes Against the Unborn Child Act, 18 Pa. C.S. Sec. 2601 et seq., including claims based on Roe v. Wade and equal protection doctrine. Although the law applies "from fertilization until birth," a convicted killer, Matthew Bullock, had argued that U.S. Supreme Court precedents allowed such a law to apply only after the point that the baby is "viable" (able to survive indefinitely outside of the womb). The Pennsylvania justices rejected this argument, stating that "to accept that a fetus is not biologically alive until it can survive outside of the womb would be illogical, as such a concept would define fetal life in terms that depend on external conditions, namely, the state of medical technology (which, of course, tends to improve over time). . . viability outside of the womb is immaterial to the question of whether the defendant's actions have caused a cessation of the biological life of the fetus .
ALABAMA:
Legislation taking effect July 1, 2006 (HB 19) amended Section 13A-6-1 of the Code of Alabama to include "an unborn child in utero at any stage of development, regardless of viability" as a "person" and "human being" for purposes of the state laws dealing with murder, manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, and assault.
ALASKA:
Alaska Statutes 11.41 (as amended by Senate Bill 20, enacted June 16, 2006) establishes the crimes of "murder of an unborn child," "manslaughter of an unborn child," "criminally negligent homicide of an unborn child," and "assault of an unborn child." Alaska Statutes 11.81.900(b) defines "unborn child" as "a member of species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313882,00.html
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa042401a.htm
http://www.nrlc.org/Unborn_Victims/Statehomicidelaws092302.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1425638/posts
I find it funny that people can imply others are ignorant when they themselves haven't completely researched the evidence before presenting their "opinions" as "facts." | |
|
| |
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 8:29:57 PM |
First off, Im not sure as to why you keep referring to the Infant Born Alive Protection Act when discussing whether causing a miscarriage can lead to criminal penalty. The Born Alive Act was enacted to protect infants when they survive an abortion and it requires that they receive medical attention instead of being "left to die."
I was referring to that act because it has been used in several cases to drop murder charges due to assault on a pregnant woman.
I find it funny that people can imply others are ignorant when they themselves haven't completely researched the evidence before presenting their "opinions" as "facts."
I didn't call anyone ignorant. I said that calling the legal definition of assault my view was ignorant. This is also not my opinion. I haven't stated my opinions at all.
I also said on numerous occasions that I couldn't find any cases. I didn't say there weren't any. I alluded that there may be, as I haven't done research in EVERY state. What I said were facts are facts. I said numerous times, "In California".
Furthermore, the whole purpose of this argument was to say whether or not a fetus is considered a person to decide whether or not abortion is legally murder. It isn't. If you go to another page on the National Right to Life Committee's site, you will find the actual homicide laws. I haven't read every single one listed below, but they offer protection against abortion. I know Missouri has outlawed partial abortions, though, and leaves no room for the well-being of the mother, even if she could die if she continues the pregnancy.
http://www.nrlc.org/unborn_victims/Statehomicidelaws092302.html
The statutes have been amended to include "fetus", "embryo" or "unborn child" and ONLY for the violent crimes in those sections.
Next, not all of the states you list cover abortion by assault. Some of the states do, such as Alabama, 13A-6-1 Code of Alabama (c) A victim of domestic violence or sexual assault may not be charged under Article 1 or Article 2 for the injury or death of an unborn child caused by a crime of domestic violence or rape perpetrated upon her.
The Laci and Conner's Act says this:
`(i) the person engaging in the conduct had knowledge or should have had knowledge that the victim of the underlying offense was pregnant; or
`(ii) the defendant intended to cause the death of, or bodily injury to, the unborn child.
Again, premeditated is a requirement. Like I said, numerous times.
My guess, though, is that a good lawyer would show how difficult it is to prove that a person assaulting someone can beyond a reasonable doubt cause a miscarriage. I know plenty of women that have miscarried and asked if it was because they fell, or got in a car accident, or whatever and their doctors' have said to them, "There's just no way to tell if they two are related."
Final verdict: abortion is not murder legally or by what the Bible says. Except for Missouri residents getting or needing a partial abortion. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:19:52 PM |
My guess, though, is that a good lawyer would show how difficult it is to prove that a person assaulting someone can beyond a reasonable doubt cause a miscarriage. I know plenty of women that have miscarried and asked if it was because they fell, or got in a car accident, or whatever and their doctors' have said to them, "There's just no way to tell if they two are related."
If you look at this website that I previously posted (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1425638/posts) you would see that a man from Texas was convicted of 2 capital murder charges when he stomped on his gf's abdomen which resulted in her miscarrying twins. There are cases when someone can be charged with murder for assaulting a woman which results in miscarriage. Not all states have laws like these but quite a few of them do and some even refer to an embryo or fetus as a "person". The Unborn Victims of Violence Act was put in place to protect unborn life. It just seems like a HUGE contradiction though in America because if a baby is wanted but murdered, then we can imprison someone for murdering it. If a baby is unwanted and aborted then there are no ramifications. I'm sure a lot of women who were pregnant with a wanted baby, had the nursery done, and a name picked out are completely devastated when someone ends their unborn child's life through assault, or MVA, etc. On the other hand, I'm sure a lot of women are devastated when people accuse them of being murderers when they decide to have an abortion. It's interesting..... | |
|
|
| Page 46 of 49
|
9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 |
|
Home
login 
