|
|
|
|
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:42:06 PM | lss145 wrote:
do any of you guys have any idea what an abortion actually is?
Yes. I'm not entirely sure you do, though.
The "shrimp-like" form doesn't actually have that form until about 11 or 12 weeks into it. From what I'm given to understand, they can't even perform any sort of surgical method of abortion (including suction) prior to about 4 or 5 weeks simply because they can't find it.
The potential complications you mention for abortion are already noted, several times in this thread, with links, as being fictions.
What you state about the hormone levels is likewise problematic, factually speaking. Your hormone levels that early in a pregnancy are not nearly what they are at the end of a pregnancy - your body does NOT store the total amount of hormones you'll need during the pregnancy and gradually release them over the course of 9 months . . nor does it release 9 months of hormones all at once if you get an abortion. In fact, the hormone drop is MUCH LESS severe after an abortion because your body has not had 9 months worth of continually, gradually increasing levels of hormones.
Your chance of depression does NOT increase - that ALSO has been covered by previous posts in this thread.
There is nothing miraculous about conception - it happens ALL the time . . it's one of the most commonplace things that happens - as evidenced by the over 6 billion people who CURRENTLY exist on the planet, the countless others who previously lived, and all the mammalian creatures who are alive and have ever lived. And if it can happen so accidentally, how can it be miraculous?
Cost you your life or your womanhood? Either you're trying to shovel the anti-abortion groups' propaganda on us, or have been fooled yourself. Those risks are no greater for someone getting an abortion than they are for someone brushing their teeth.
You're right, by the way - there ARE plenty of images for abortion - some of them are accurate, and some of them are deliberately falsified to make abortion seem far more horrific than it is. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:59:09 PM | My husband arrested a man who punched his pregnant wife in the stomach for not doing his laundry when he wanted it, dont know if the charge was assault attempted murder or whatnot but the SOB is rotting in prison for a long time, and im glad my love put him there.
Pro-lifer's have as much right to views and beliefs as pro-choicers do.
Elvis what is your obsession with abortions? have you had one or did you get a doctorate degree from the school of wikipedia?
Have you ever actually spoke with an ob/gyn to become the expert on abortion? | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/1/2009 11:13:52 PM | This is so wrong it is actually hilarious. Also, at the same time it is sad because an adult really should know a little bit more about biology than this abysmal display.
Look, if you want to believe lies about abortion so you can defend the fact that you were a teen mother, go right ahead. But please stop insulting the intelligence of the rest of us. ~futureshock~
^^^^This response from you futureshock, shows your true colours....much different from your manipulating butt smooching posts you make to other members and posters you have come to realize you can not so easily maniplulate.
I think any poster who dosen't agree with you insults your intellegence.
I think that your debating skills are lacking when you attack the path another person has taken (eg..becoming a teen mom) to support and defend your opinion as being the general "rule".
Unless you have actually had an abortion...or have gone through a miscarriage....your opinions are ones that are clearly drawn from medical literature and medical studies.
Soo...your opinion and critisisms of other peoples experiences or opinions DO NOT FVCKIN TRUMP them or their experiences just because you choose to read the information available that entirely supports your opinion!!! Your responses to posts that disagree or challenge the opionions in your OP and throughout this thread are disgraceful and at times meant to be demeaning from reading your replies.
Perhaps I am alone in thinking that you derive great pleasure from extracting very intimate details from other posters who enter into a debate with you, only to use those details at a later date as a toll to humiliate and embarrass them into silence..congrats...you win all points of every debate!! | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:17:18 AM |
The "shrimp-like" form doesn't actually have that form until about 11 or 12 weeks into it. From what I'm given to understand, they can't even perform any sort of surgical method of abortion (including suction) prior to about 4 or 5 weeks simply because they can't find it.
The potential complications you mention for abortion are already noted, several times in this thread, with links, as being fictions.
What you state about the hormone levels is likewise problematic, factually speaking. Your hormone levels that early in a pregnancy are not nearly what they are at the end of a pregnancy - your body does NOT store the total amount of hormones you'll need during the pregnancy and gradually release them over the course of 9 months . . nor does it release 9 months of hormones all at once if you get an abortion. In fact, the hormone drop is MUCH LESS severe after an abortion because your body has not had 9 months worth of continually, gradually increasing levels of hormones.
Your chance of depression does NOT increase - that ALSO has been covered by previous posts in this thread.
LOL Elvis!! I find it truly entertaining when a man comes on here and falsifies truth about pregnancy and abortion. First off, the "shrimp like appearance occurs around 6-7 weeks, not 11-12. A 12 week fetus will look remarkably human with fingers, toes, and genitalia as well as be around 2-3 inches long. Here is a link to educate yourself on embryonic and fetal development.
http://www.pregnancy.org/fetaldevelopment
Secondly, there is a HUGE surge of hormones during the first trimester to compensate for the enormous changes a woman's body goes through. Have you ever heard of nausea, fatigue, mood swings, and breast engorgement in newly pregnant women? Yea, didnt think so... Hormone levels will begin to level out AFTER the first trimester once compensation is achieved. Sure, women will be more likely to be more depressed if a miscarriage or stillbirth happens in the later stages of pregnancy but it's not because the woman has more hormones. It is because there is an attachment and bonding process that occurs during pregnancy which no man will ever comprehend unless you miraculously become pregnant one day..
As far as abortion goes, many women do become depressed after having one. I can vouch for this personally and I can also vouch for my friends who have had one as well. The hardest part about grieving after an abortion is people like you who say, "you're not depressed, there is nothing to be depressed about...it's only tissue...ladeedaaadeeda" I knew that I ended a life or potential life, and the only way I could forgive myself is to give my unborn child an identity and to write a letter and send it to him/her in a balloon. Call me crazy, but this is what helped me to heal and I know a lot of other women who have given their aborted fetus' identities to help them grieve (ie naming them, becoming a godparent to someone else's child, etc) As a man, you will never experience a pregnancy or abortion and for you to make assumptions about womens' mental status post abortion is ridiculous. Why don't you go ahead and google "post abortion counseling" and find the multitude of resources available to women who need it. Ever heard of supply and demand? Yea, there wouldn't be a ton of resources out there unless a ton of women requested it. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:56:24 AM | ^^^^thank-you babydoll...I can only focus on replying to one ignoramous at a time...I keep getting banned....sheesh...not to mention I am on my third profile pic....
I couldn't have said it better myself...meaning I couldn't have said it as nicely as you did!! | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 5:45:49 AM |
If you look at this website that I previously posted (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1425638/posts) you would see that a man from Texas was convicted of 2 capital murder charges when he stomped on his gf's abdomen which resulted in her miscarrying twins.
I don't see why you are reposting this? This case is ridiculous.
"Basoria decided when she was four months pregnant that she wanted an abortion. When she couldn't get one, Flores hesitantly agreed to press his 175-pound frame on her belly."
"When Basoria began spotting a week before she miscarried, she went to the doctor. The doctor determined the babies were fine and didn't note any bruising on Basoria's abdomen or elsewhere, Bauereiss said. There was a notation on the medical record, however, that Basoria had asked about an abortion and was told she was too far along.
Basoria miscarried on May 7, 2004. A pathologist, who did an autopsy on the twins, determined they had been dead for at least 24 hours when they slipped from Basoria's body into a toilet at Flores' home.
Deaton acknowledges Flores and Basoria argued in the hours before she miscarried about him arriving home late, and Flores hit her. But, he points to Basoria's affidavit in which she says Flores had not physically abused her, and the autopsy's conclusion that the fetuses were dead a day earlier.
"So it is really irrelevant," he said. "
The act was premeditated, which is something I already pointed out about The Unborn Victims of Violence Act. It's in place to give justice to would-have-been-mothers whose babies were targeted by intentional violent crime without their consent. Pointing to that Texas case is not really a good idea, since the mother was involved, and they could never determine when the standing on her belly occurred. He was convicted based on lies.
quite a few of them do and some even refer to an embryo or fetus as a "person"
If you read the actual codes, not just the summary in that list, the word PERSON's legal definition for that statute has been amended to include "fetus", "zygote", "embryo" or "unborn child" for these crimes specifically.
If a baby is unwanted and aborted then there are no ramifications. I'm sure a lot of women who were pregnant with a wanted baby, had the nursery done, and a name picked out are completely devastated when someone ends their unborn child's life through assault, or MVA, etc. On the other hand, I'm sure a lot of women are devastated when people accuse them of being murderers when they decide to have an abortion.
I feel like I am going in circles. We are right back to where we started. Legally speaking, abortion is not murder. It is protected by the law. I don't see it as a contradiction at all. Potential life can be something totally different for two different women. For one it can be a joy, a great miracle. For another it can be a costly accident, one that will ruin the woman's life.
You do not even see what you have written; it's justice for the mother, and her family. I am glad there is more justice than I researched for the mothers that this happens to. It's unfortunate that it has to be premeditated and they have to know the woman is pregnant, because women who are victims of assault by strangers or vehicular accidents and miscarry deserve as much justice as the women whose pregnancies are targeted. Women in these situations wanted to provide for this life and would have given it all the love in the world and protected the child until old age. They get justice by having the person who willfully harmed or killed their unborn charged with a crime.
A woman who doesn't want to or is incapable of providing those things also deserves justice. Having a child, especially if the pregnancy was an accident, is not something anyone should be forced into doing. She gets justice by being able to legally say, "I cannot have a child right now." | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:41:41 AM | bosoxfan...
I know the case is ridiculous, but you specifically stated that people would not be charged with murder for assaulting a pregnant women which subsequently results in fetal death. I showed you a case in which it has happened.
As far as fetal death for unwanted and wanted baby's go, all I said was that it was interesting... I never said it was right or wrong. Personally, I am glad that women can find some justice if someone harms their unborn child which was planned because to them, they suffer a great loss. I am glad that women can find this peace and that it doesnt effect roe vs wade even though lots of defendants will pull that card.. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 11:14:08 AM |
Pro-lifer's have as much right to views and beliefs as pro-choicers do.
Elvis what is your obsession with abortions? have you had one or did you get a doctorate degree from the school of wikipedia?
Have you ever actually spoke with an ob/gyn to become the expert on abortion?
Pro-lifers have a right to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. That is why it is important to correct the lies/propaganda/misinformation given by many of these people.
There are plenty of medical websites on the web, one doesn't have to use just wikipedia. Wikipedia always lists its sources, so anyone can verify information from that site by reading the original source material. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 11:35:36 AM | If one is so bent on becoming an expert in everything poregnancy and abortion, they would get their facts from a source with some actual credibility.
Go to your local bookstore and pick up a copy of "what to expect when you're expecting, the "bible" of pregnancy books". A
And make an appointment with an ob.gyn.
All thats being done is parroting whatver one see;s on the internet.
for example, pregnancy hormones surge the highest in the first trimester, and are almost depleted by the 3rd. If you take a pregnancy test right before your baby is due you may not even get a positive result becausr the hormones are dying down.
Elvis, if you wish to be an expert in pregnancy please educate yourself from actual physicians, not web links, kthxbai. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 11:54:31 AM | I cannot believe this thread is still alive and kicking....and that NotElvis is still stirring the debate that will never be "won"...
A man preaching to women on abortion is just well.....wrong......
It is a woman's choice because it is a woman's body. NotElvis, you should try to let this one go....you do not have a say in the real world and you shouldn't.....period.
No woman has the right to tell you what to do with your body.
As for the "real facts" behind development of babies....honestly, most of what has been posted within this thread is from pro-lifers and pro-abortionists so neither is unbiased and neither is therefore likely to be scientifically factual. I'll tell you what I personally choose to believe as facts is the materials provided to me by my ob/gyn and the literature handed out to all women expecting babies.
Nobody on this planet can tell any woman how she will feel being pregnant or having an abortion, nor should anyone think they have the right to do so. That is not really a debatable topic.... | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 11:57:18 AM |
Elvis, if you wish to be an expert in pregnancy please educate yourself from actual physicians, not web links, kthxbai.
Why aren't you harping on the people saying outrageous things about abortion that are not even close to being true?
I cannot believe this thread is still alive and kicking....and that NotElvis is still stirring the debate that will never be "won"...
A man preaching to women on abortion is just well.....wrong......
It is a woman's choice because it is a woman's body. NotElvis, you should try to let this one go....you do not have a say in the real world and you shouldn't.....period.
No woman has the right to tell you what to do with your body. I haven't seen him trying to tell a woman what to do with her body. I have seen him trying to correct other people's factual errors.
As for the "real facts" behind development of babies....honestly, most of what has been posted within this thread is from pro-lifers and pro-abortionists so neither is unbiased and neither is therefore likely to be scientifically factual. I'll tell you what I personally choose to believe as facts is the materials provided to me by my ob/gyn and the literature handed out to all women expecting babies.
There has been plenty of information on this thread that is factually correct. Facts and opinions are vastly different. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but nobody is entitled to their own facts.
Nobody on this planet can tell any woman how she will feel being pregnant or having an abortion, nor should anyone think they have the right to do so. That is not really a debatable topic....
You're right, but I don't see anyone trying to do that except the pro-lifers who say everyone will suffer from emotional trauma after an abortion.
| |
|
LSS145
|
Joined: 6/19/2009
Msg: 1162 | |
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:03:31 PM | Pro-lifers have a right to their own opinions, but not to their own facts.
wtf?!?!?!
i'm not calling myself a pro-lifer, and i'm not so insulted or whatever to have become silent; unlike Future who seems to be on this site 24/7 i have a life and other things to do.....
my question now is why do i have a right to an opinion but not to the facts that i've personally witnessed or experienced??? | |
|
LSS145
|
Joined: 6/19/2009
Msg: 1163 | |
| |
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:07:35 PM |
I know the case is ridiculous, but you specifically stated that people would not be charged with murder for assaulting a pregnant women which subsequently results in fetal death. I showed you a case in which it has happened.
I was being too vague then, because the woman's belly in that case was stomped on intentionally to kill the fetus, when I said that I meant death of the fetus by accident in the harming of the woman. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:08:52 PM |
I'm just saying that as easy as the word abortion is to say, its not that easy to live through and with.
It is different for everyone.
Having a baby is an easy thing to say, it's not a decision that's always easy to live through and with. | |
|
| |
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:47:28 PM |
someone sticks two long needles with scapulas on the ends of them inside you after they give you a pill to induce cervical dialation and then cut the fetus or 'shrimp-like being' into small enough peices to fit through the opening of your vagina.
What's interesting is that you really have no idea what you are talking about. I wonder how my daughter fit through my cervix without being cut up into tiny pieces? When they took out my IUD when I was 11 weeks pregnant, they didn't need to cut it up into tiny pieces to make it fit either. I wonder how women have miscarriages without needing a D&C if the embryo or fetus cannot make it through the birth canal?
Up to the 7th week of pregnancy you can be administered Methotrexate in conjunction with Misoprostol to cause a spontaneous abortion. This is also used to treat ectopic pregnancies in the cervix and the fallopian tubes.
You can take RU-486 (Mifeprex) in combination with Misoprostol during the 7th-9th weeks of pregnancy to have a medical abortion.
Up to the 12th week of pregnancy you may opt to have suction curettage to terminate a pregnancy. This is a surgical abortion. You are given medication to dilate your cervix, most commonly Laminaria inserted directly into your vagina, or in some cases Pitocin orally, to ripen and dilate the cervix to prevent tearing and to make the opening to your cervix larger. If your cervix is not dilated enough, a doctor may use the smooth metal rods to widen the opening.
A tube about the diameter of a pencil is inserted and a pump is used to create a vacuum to suction out the fetus, placenta and other uterine parts. It may or may not be necessary to perform a curettage. If it is, then the physician will use a sharp, spoon-like instrument called a curette to gently scrape the walls of the uterus to prevent complications and prevent infection. This procedure is also used in incomplete miscarriages. Rate of complication due to curettage is relatively low (it is more likely you will have a complication from anesthesia), but it is important you use a reputable physician to ensure your own safety.
The hormones, cramping and bleeding will vary by how far along you are and will be similar to having a miscarriage at around the same time. The postoperative emotions you feel may or may not be similar to having a miscarriage. It depends mostly on how you feel about abortion and how you felt about being pregnant. Make certain you do what's right for yourself, and if you feel you can't handle the possible aftermath of an abortion, there is always adoption. Lots of men and women who would make wonderful parents are not blessed with the opportunity to do so.
I am not going to go into second or third trimester abortions, but there's the truth about first trimester abortions. If you are considering abortion, please talk to a medical professional, not a fanatic spouting false information.
---------------------------------
I really want to address your cancer comment. Telling anyone that they could get cancer because of an abortion is ridiculous. Do you even know what cancer is? Do you know why a carcinogen promotes cancer? Do you know anything about cell mutation at all? Please do not run around claiming that getting your uterus scraped can be carcinogenic, because it is absolutely not true. Unless the curette is emitting some sort of radiation or you have a spontaneous cell mutation in the process of healing, you won't be getting cancer because you had a complication in your abortion. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:29:06 PM | Actually alchohol consumption has a much higher chance to increase your chances of breast cancer.
If you were a stress monger before you got pregnant you might experience depression.
If you are getting an abortion for the wrong reasons - perhaps guilt or pressure than you may experience regret.
Abortion as a medical procedure IS the most common procedure performed yearly with 300 a day in Ontario alone.
50% of all women who get abortions have had children before. The largest age group to get abortions are between 21 - 29.
If you are a sufferer of PMS or suffer from cramps regularly during normal menstration then there may be a couple of extra days discomfort after a surgical procedure. | |
|
| |
| |
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:39:38 PM | No actually, it's not. This continual misinformation blows me away. What do they teach kids in school? There is a more likely chance of breast cancer from poor diet or the xrays in a mamogram screening. If you want to talk about what causes what there much are so many other things that increase your chances of breast cancer than abortions.
Let's put things in perspective. It probqably won't stop people from drinking but let's call a spade a spade shall we. | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:44:24 PM | | Technically speaking, there are many things that can cause many "bad" mutations in a cell's DNA that controls oncogenes and tumor suppressors (these control cell growth). These cells grow uncontrollably if the mutation occurs and multiply and continue to spread to various related parts of the body. DNA repair genes, if mutated, cause a disruption in a cell because it can no longer correct mistakes in the DNA it is replicating. This indirectly causes cancer. DNA mutations are random, but there are a few lists of known, reasonably thought and possible carcinogens. Some things are in a lot of the products and medications you use everyday, some are only carcinogens when mixed with certain things. | |
|
LSS145
|
Joined: 6/19/2009
Msg: 1173 | |
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:50:52 PM | your daughter probably fit through your cervix the same way my son did mine. your cervix was dialated for a natural birth.
i didn't say anything about an abortion causing cancer.
i said that some of the effects an abortion could cause in a woman's body could increase the chances of cancer.
but i'm sure you can find something published to negate that.
an iud is not the same thing as a developing fetus, and comparing the two just because they are in the same place in a woman's body is ludicrous; iud's are designed to be flexible and shaped so that it's easy in/out, not requiring surgical procedures. a developing fetus is designed to stay in, not come out.
and the reason some miscarriages occur without induced dialation is because the body dialates on it's own, whether you realize it or not.
i also stated that the methods i described might not be used commonly, but please, don't tell me i don't know what i'm talking about. I've held a friend's hand and watched her undergo what i described.
i'm tired of you people trying so hard to discredit the opinions of people you don't agree with. why don't you get a damn life? this is a forum, which should be a place where different opinions and ideas should be shared and discussed, not a place where people who don't have anything else to do but sit in front of the computer all the time can get off on being right. but ya know, if you enjoy being condescending and close-minded... who am i to argue?
i'm not going to concede that my opinions and experiences are wrong, as you are so eloquently trying to prove, because they're not.
(why did it take you so long to respond to that statement in my original post? did your search engine fail while you were looking up the medications and gestation periods, or were you just concerned about making yourself sound intelligent without having to quote your sources?) | |
|
| Unplanned Pregnancy Doesn'Have to Lead to Birth or Parenthood
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:51:51 PM | I volunteered at The Hutch in Seattle, and worked on the Human Genome Project, so I am fairly well educated on what cancer is. What known carcinogens are, and the lessor groups.
I didn't say you were likely to get cancer from an abortion; in fact I refuted what she said above.
However, I don't think it's fair to reference "fair assumptions" that link heavy alcohol consumption in those predisposed to breast cancer in getting breast cancer. It's only casually related to cancers of the pharynx larynx and esophagus. | |
|
LSS145
|
Joined: 6/19/2009
Msg: 1175 | |
| |
|
| Page 47 of 49
|
9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 |
|
Home
login 
