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 Author Thread: The California Collapse
 fzrhusker

Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 126
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/18/2009 7:03:36 AM
They still don't get it

Democrats plan to pass California budget plan next week
By Steve Wiegand and Jim Sanders
swiegand@sacbee.com
Published: Thursday, Jun. 18, 2009 - 12:00 am | Page 4A

Democratic legislative leaders vowed Wednesday that the Legislature will pass a "share the pain" plan early next week that will close the state's deficit without completely shredding California's social service safety net.

Whether it will contain a tax hike on cigarettes and a new tax on oil production, however, is problematic.

Only an hour or so before Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg, D-Sacramento, and Assembly Speaker Karen Bass, D-Los Angeles, made their early-next-week predictions, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he wouldn't sign a plan that was balanced with tax increases.

"I am very, very much against any tax increase whatsoever," the governor said. "And I'm also talking about fee increases. None of that will fly with me."

The rhetorical staking out of ground by the key figures in the current version of the state's ongoing fiscal melodrama came a day after the Legislature's joint budget conference committee adopted a plan to balance the budget for the fiscal year that starts July 1.

The plan includes about $2 billion in new oil production and cigarette taxes to help bridge the $24 billion budget gap, and a $15-per-vehicle registration fee to finance the state park system.

Steinberg and Bass said the conference committee's plan was a "reasonable response" to the package of deep cuts and revenue shifts that the governor had proposed last month.

And they offered a fusillade of figures to back up their contention: About 45 percent of Schwarzenegger's proposals were completely accepted by the committee, according to Bass, and 93 percent were accepted to some degree.

The key differences are that the governor's plan cuts more deeply into education, and health and social services programs for the poor, elderly and disabled, while the Democratic plan would replace some of the cuts with revenue from the tax increases.

"The people of California and the Legislature have to ask a question," said Steinberg.

"Is it more important to not look at increasing the tax on tobacco products, vs. eliminating 900,000 kids from the health care rolls? We're not willing to do that."

But the tax idea is apparently anathema to Schwarzenegger, who met privately with Bass and Steinberg earlier in the day.

The governor reminded reporters at a gathering outside his office that the state budget adopted in February for the fiscal year that starts July 1 included more than $12 billion in tax increases, which he supported.

"To now, four months later, come out with another tax increase is irresponsible," the Republican governor said.

GOP legislators have also consistently railed against tax hikes. Since a tax increase would take the consent of two-thirds of both legislative houses, Republican lawmakers can block passage of the tax element of any budget-balancing plan.

"I think we're moving backwards," said Assembly Republican leader Sam Blakeslee of San Luis Obispo. "We're not making progress; we're going in the wrong direction.

Bass and Steinberg seemed to be reconciled to the likelihood that the tax hike proposals would fail next week. Steinberg said that if they did, the package they sent the governor would have a reserve $2 billion smaller than he had sought.

If the governor sticks to his insistence that the plan contain a $4.5 billion reserve, the money lost from a failure to pass the tax increases could be made up by borrowing $2 billion from cities and counties.

The borrowing idea, which was ratified by voters in 2004, is bitterly opposed by local governments. It was part of the governor's original proposal but was unanimously rejected by the conference committee.

Schwarzenegger has also objected to Democrats' refusal to tack an additional 5 percent salary cut onto the two days of unpaid furlough currently imposed upon state workers during the fiscal emergency.

Steinberg countered that "the governor ignores the fact, quite frankly, that there is a 10 percent pay cut already in place for state workers," a reference to the two payless furlough days Schwarzenegger ordered earlier this year.

The two leaders said they would seek GOP support for the package (although almost certainly without the tax increases) because a two-thirds approval would put the plan into effect immediately.

Simple majority votes would put the plan into place 90 days after it was signed.

They also predicted that after several more days of talks with the governor, a Legislature-approved plan would be on his desk by the middle of next week.

"We're going to surprise you all," Steinberg said.
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 127
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/18/2009 7:15:21 AM
fzrhusker nobody seems to get it but us poor citizens.
We have all been taught that when money is tight or almost non-existant that we tighten up our belts. We dont go out creating new debts and problems. When money is tight we only use money for the essential need and cut out any luxuries or non essential items.
Right now it looks like many of the states and the federal governments feel that the way to get ourselves out of debt is to create even more Larger debts.
 fzrhusker

Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 128
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Posted: 6/18/2009 7:18:30 AM
Now this site does not ask the questions or the cuts I would pick but its a pretty cool thing to try.

http://www.nextten.org/budgettool/site/thesim/flashcheck.html
 JackDiamond312

Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 129
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/18/2009 10:34:33 AM
Oh brother...... come on.... she must have just watched Jack Nicholson in a Few Good Men


The feisty California lawmaker felt the need to remind an Army brigadier general of that fact Tuesday during a hearing before her Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, where the military officer testifying had the apparent gall to call Boxer "ma'am."

Brig. Gen. Michael Walsh, with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, was testifying on the Louisiana coastal restoration process in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. He began to answer one of Boxer's questions with "ma'am" when Boxer immediately cut him off.

"You know, do me a favor," an irritated Boxer said. "Could say 'senator' instead of 'ma'am?'"

"Yes, ma'am," Walsh interjected.

"It's just a thing, I worked so hard to get that title, so I'd appreciate it, yes, thank you," she said.

"Yes, senator," he responded.

However, Walsh surely meant no disrespect, as military protocol advises that officers may use "sir" or "ma'am" when addressing anybody higher than them on the chain of command.

"We would call them 'sir' or 'ma'am' or 'senator such-and-such'," Army spokesman Lt. Col. Nathan Banks said. Banks said any of those terms would be "appropriate" when addressing a senator.

According to one guide, the Navy and Coast Guard typically use "mister" or "miss" to address officers below the rank of commander, and "sir" or "ma'am," or a specific title, to address anyone at that rank or higher.
 AceOfSpace

Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 130
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/18/2009 1:52:40 PM

A good start to solving the problem would be to enact ZERO BASED BUDGETING


Yep. I totally agree with you on this.

ZBB is tough to implement every year and that frequency is probably unnecessary. However, a ZBB once every 10 years would put an automatic sunset clause on every state expenditure once each decade.
 fzrhusker

Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 131
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/18/2009 5:21:39 PM
Whoo Hoooo ZBB is the shiznik. Start over every 10 years, sounds like a plan now how do we get it passed.


Feinstein is a c@nt rhymes with punt
 pirateheaven

Joined: 5/11/2008
Msg: 132
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/19/2009 2:33:32 PM

Whoo Hoooo ZBB is the shiznik. Start over every 10 years, sounds like a plan now how do we get it passed.


Write your reps in Sacramento about it. You can find their contact info at

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/yourleg.html
 AceOfSpace

Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 133
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/19/2009 8:22:40 PM
They'll never go for it. This is what initiatives are for.

Prop 13 was supposed to protect us from ever-increasing property taxes. What it has done instead over time is to shift the burden of property tax onto residential properties and away from commercial properties, which change ownership far less frequently.

What Prop 13 didn't do was protect us from unnecessary spending. Personally, I am for every government program that works, and I am against every government program that doesn't. Why do I favor government programs at all?

Because I can vote out the people who hire the idiots. I cannot do that when a private enterprise reaches a size that gives it enough purchasing power to overwhelm my impact as a consumer.
 pirateheaven

Joined: 5/11/2008
Msg: 134
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Posted: 6/20/2009 12:08:55 PM

Because I can vote out the people who hire the idiots.


I doubt it. The two party system is like playing two card monte. Which ever choice you make will between socialism and socialism lite.

Take John McCain, the people in Arizona don't like him. They are CONSERVATIVES, while he is a moderate. However, the Republican party will not back a CONSERVATIVE Republican against him in a primary. McCain has a war chest of money. However, whatever Dem who runs against McCain will always be more liberal than he is.

Thus the people in Arizona, are stuck with McCain.

The two party system needs to be dismantled. We need a one term limit on the Senate and House. Career politicians are killing us.
 AceOfSpace

Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 135
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Posted: 6/20/2009 1:38:57 PM
Well, at least I can in theory. Leave it up to the corporate executives and I can't even do it in theory.

I agree with you about the Demicans and Republicrats. They both see the People as wells to be tapped. They both funnel the commonly heald resources to their friends and supporters.

I disagree with you about career pols though. If we term the skilled ones out, we're left with the same people who like to get on HOA boards--amateurs with delusions of grandeur.

When there is a public demand for a good or service, we need to understand what our options are for fulfilling it. We have a range of them, from open markets with minimal regulation, to open markets with tight regulation (depending on the level of risk involvd), to governmentally contracted providers/suppliers, to direct provision by the government.

Examples:

National defense per se: government
Supplies and equipment: contracted via clear specs and competitive bids

Health care: regulated local monopolies
The buyer is not the consumer, so this is a three-way transaction and the supply/demand mechanism does not regulate prices. Consumers would have the option to shop different locales to receive the best service, encouraging best practices to spread.

Personally, my view is that the government is really in the insurance business. Name me a government service that doesn't involve preventing or mitigating disaster (national, regional, personal), or investing in future development. Those are things that insurance companies are supposed to do with our premiums, so why are we being taxed twice?
 pirateheaven

Joined: 5/11/2008
Msg: 136
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/22/2009 7:54:56 PM

I disagree with you about career pols though. If we term the skilled ones out, we're left with the same people who like to get on HOA boards--amateurs with delusions of grandeur.


Skilled politicians? In what? The primary process would weed out the candidates. Remember, experts built the Titanic.
 AceOfSpace

Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 137
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Posted: 6/22/2009 9:20:39 PM
Yes they did, and it was an amazing ship for its day. All it took was one amateur with delusions of grandeur to sink it. And you want only inexperienced amateurs in the captain's chair.

Like it or not, politics is about cutting deals. As long as the deals are cut in such a way that the public interest is furthered, we come out ahead by having pols who want to keep their offices badly enough to make sure that's what happens. That is not what we have right now.
 fzrhusker

Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 138
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Posted: 6/22/2009 11:47:56 PM
Ace the problem is they are cutting deals for special interest, from big oil to the environmentalist and with no common sense to figure out a way past their own partisan ideals.
 Greek isles

Joined: 5/24/2008
Msg: 139
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/23/2009 3:10:12 AM
We have dug ourselves a whole and the average american is to blame. Nobody buys american made items which leads to lack of jobs which leads to lack of money.
 fzrhusker

Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 140
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/23/2009 9:09:49 AM
WHY AMERICA 'S ECONOMY FELL OFF THE CLIFF

John Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN ) for 6 am.
While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his
electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG)
He put on a dress shirt
(MADE IN SRI LANKA),

designer jeans
(MADE IN SINGAPORE)
and tennis shoes
(MADE IN KOREA)
After cooking his breakfast in his new
electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA)
he sat down with his calculator
(MADE IN MEXICO)
to see how much he could spend today. After setting his
watch (MADE IN TAIWAN )
to the radio
(MADE IN INDIA )
he got in his car
(MADE IN GERMANY )
filled it with GAS
(from Saudi Arabia )
and continued his search
for a good paying AMERICAN JOB.
At the end of yet another discouraging
and fruitless day
checking his
Computer
(made in MALAYSIA ),
John decided to relax for a while.
He put on his sandals
(MADE IN BRAZIL),
poured himself a glass of
wine
(MADE IN FRANCE)
and turned on his tv
(MADE IN INDONESIA),
and then wondered why he can't
find a good paying job in AMERICA
AND NOW HE'S HOPING HE CAN GET HELP FROM A PRESIDENT MADE IN KENYA
 pirateheaven

Joined: 5/11/2008
Msg: 141
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/23/2009 11:17:07 AM

All it took was one amateur with delusions of grandeur to sink it. And you want only inexperienced amateurs in the captain's chair.


Uhhhh do you know something no one else does? The Captain was under orders to break the speed record.

Ace your suggestion that these career pols are doing a good job is a non starter. These are the same people who stole our money out of social security, are racking up the largest debts in the history of the country and bankrupted CA.

They can have a lifetime experience, I just want them to serve 1 term in the Senate which is six years.

Maybe if they did not have to worry about getting re-elected, they would do the right thing instead of being controlled by party politics.
 AceOfSpace

Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 142
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/23/2009 5:51:15 PM
Ace the problem is they are cutting deals for special interest, from big oil to the environmentalist and with no common sense to figure out a way past their own partisan ideals.


I agree. JackDiamond is onto something when he objects to that kind of partisanship. As long as we keep drinking the kool-aid, they'll keep bamboozling us. Let's be generous and say that they're just as bamboozled by their ideology as they'd like us to be. In that case, there is no consequence to them for getting termed out. They can go out as self-styled heroes when they were really lunkheads with delusions of grandeur. Plus, they get that great pension plan and other bennies.

Personally, I want pols who are willing to earn it by looking out for the long term. I say, keep the pols and cut their purse strings every 10 years. The ones who are willing to justify their programs based on positive results will stay with it, and the rest can go back to their HOA boards.
 fzrhusker

Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 143
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/25/2009 7:04:15 AM
Majority of California senators agree to pay cut amid budget crisis
www.chinaview.cn 2009-06-22 0312

LOS ANGELES, June 21 (Xinhua) -- In response to California's budget crisis, more than half of the state senators have agreed to reduce their 116,208-dollar salary this year, most taking a five-percent cut starting July 1, it was reported on Sunday.

During budget negotiations last week, Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg took the lead by offering to have his salary reduced by five percent, according to the Los Angeles Tims.

He also urged his 39 colleagues to follow suit as part of a cost-cutting package he called "responsive to the state's current crisis situation."

By Friday evening, 26 senators followed the lead of Steinberg by agreeing to have their salary sliced this year, the paper said.

Some others were already making less than 116,208 dollars after declining their last raise, in 2007, or otherwise voluntarily shrinking their paychecks, the paper said.

Assembly Speaker Karen Bass has not asked the 80 members of her house to reduce their earnings, although at least 13 have done so to varying degrees in the last seven months.

A five-percent decrease will save the state 5,810 dollars per legislator per fiscal year in most cases.

"It makes no sense to ask millions of Californians to accept cutbacks in pay or services without cutting back ourselves," Senator Patricia Wiggins said.

But state employee union spokesman Jim Zamora noted that it was only a drop in the bucket relative to the state's 24-billion-dollar budget hole.

"It's just a symbolic act. What they need to do is come up with a long-term solution to the budget problem," said Zamora, a spokesman for Service Employees International Union, Local 1000.

The union members have taken a pay cut of nearly 10 percent through twice-monthly unpaid furloughs initiated in February, Zamora said.
 Tom6112

Joined: 9/19/2006
Msg: 144
The California Collapse
Posted: 6/25/2009 7:06:37 AM
It's the Illegal Aliens that we need to deal with.

They suck up resources (schools, healthcare, prisons), take all the low paying jobs which leaves none for teenagers and the welfare crew, and send the money they earn home instead of spending it here where it would create more jobs.

The Guv said it's only about $5 billion/year, well, if we'd taken care of it 5 years ago, there's the $25 billion we're short, right?
 Tom6112

Joined: 9/19/2006
Msg: 145
The California Collapse
Posted: 6/25/2009 7:08:46 AM

A good start to solving the problem would be to enact ZERO BASED BUDGETING


A good idea! Also, every department and program should need complete re-authorization every few years, with a few exceptions. The reauthorization should be based on effectiveness, proven by independent audits of their performance.
 fzrhusker

Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 146
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Posted: 6/25/2009 7:32:47 AM
What I really found interesting is this story came from a Chinese news outlet. They have a vested interest in the success or failure of Cali.

According to the Cali budget office the cost of illegals is currently 11 Billion.
 AceOfSpace

Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 147
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Posted: 6/25/2009 11:55:21 AM

Also, every department and program should need complete re-authorization every few years, with a few exceptions.


That's what ZBB is in a nutshell. I'd say there should be no exceptions, or after 3 rounds, every wasteful program will somehow be moved into the exceptions category.

The problem isn't government vs. market. The problem is accountability. The market is one mechanism, and a partial one at that, for ensuring some degree of accountability. However, even that can be circumvented by people who are clever.
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 148
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/25/2009 4:34:44 PM

According to the Cali budget office the cost of illegals is currently 11 Billion.

In some of the border and farming states its been reported that about 25% or more of some school district budgets are spent on special programs for illegals---language, free breakfast, free lunch, tutoring, special aides and the list goes on....And these are not the illegals labeled as Special Education students....Thats another category in itself.
 JackDiamond312

Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 149
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/26/2009 11:24:21 AM
Here is an interesting article.... some may have read it already.


California, Here We Come!
by Patrick J. Buchanan
06/26/2009

PALM SPRINGS, Calif. -- In just a few weeks time, California hits the wall.

And Americans should take a good, long look at the fiscal and social wreck of the Golden Land, because California is at a place to which all of America is heading.

In May, when five fund-raising proposals were put on the ballot, Gov. Schwarzenegger pleaded with the overtaxed Californians not to make their state "the poster child for dysfunction."

As The Economist writes, "On May 18th, they did exactly that."

Arnold went to the White House for U.S. loan guarantees for new state bonds. But with the president's approval rating wilting because of a belief he is spending too much, the Obama-ites slammed the door.

In Sacramento, a Republican blocking force is resisting any new tax revenue. And with the state under a constitutional mandate to balance its budget, yet facing a $24 billion deficit this July, a chainsaw is about to be taken to state government.

Some 38,000 of 168,000 state prisoners may be released. As Barack Obama is pushing universal health insurance, California will cut Medi-Cal for the poor. Education will be slashed, resulting in a shortened school year, thousands of laid-off teachers, school closings and an end to summer programs in a system that has plummeted from the nation's best to one of its worst, as measured by dropout rates and academic achievement.

The 10 campuses of the University of California face cuts that may result in 50,000 fewer students and 5,000 fewer teachers.

What makes her fiscal crisis relevant to us all is not only that California is our most populous state, with one in eight Americans living there, but California has a gross domestic product larger than Canada's.

Moreover, the demography of California today is the demography of America tomorrow, just as the social and fiscal policies of California in the last decade mirror those of the U.S. government today.

One-third of all U.S. wage-earners today have been amnestied from paying U.S. income taxes, as the top 1 percent haul fully 40 percent of that huge load. So, too, in California, the well-to-do and the wealthy are hammered, which is why many have quietly closed their businesses, packed and gone back over the mountains whence their fathers came.

Under George W. Bush and Obama, the U.S. government has undertaken huge new responsibilities: No Child Left Behind, Medicare prescription drug benefits, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the takeovers of banks and auto companies, bailouts without end and national health insurance.

California, too, spent lavishly in the fat years and issued bonds when state revenues did not cover the costs, bringing its once-sterling credit rating down to the nation's lowest. So, too, U.S. Treasury bonds, T-bills and the American dollar are now increasingly suspect.

Demographically, California is where America will be in 2040.

White folks, who are leaving California as they did in the millions in the 1990s, are below half the population. Hispanics, their numbers surging due to legal and illegal immigration, are well over a third of the population. The African-American share of California's population is also falling, as the Asian share is rising, again from immigration.

Los Angeles, which is what most large American cities will look like, is the most diverse city on earth. Has diversity been a strength?

In the prisons and jails, and among the scores of thousands in street gangs and the underclass, a black-brown civil war is underway.

In October 2006, the Financial Times reported the findings of the famed author of "Bowling Alone" on what diversity has wrought:

"A bleak picture of the corrosive effects of ethnic diversity has been revealed in research by Harvard University's Robert Putnam, one of the world's most influential political scientists. His research shows that the more diverse a community is, the less likely its inhabitants are to trust anyone -- from their next-door neighbor to the mayor."

"In the presence of diversity, we hunker down," said Putnam. "We act like turtles. The effect of diversity is worse than had been imagined. And it's not just that we don't trust people who are not like us. In diverse communities, we don't trust people who do look like us."

"Professor Putnam," said the Financial Times, "found trust was lowest in Los Angeles, 'the most diverse human habitation in human history.'"

Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan carried California nine times. But the state is now a fiefdom of liberalism. John McCain's share of the vote was smaller than Barry Goldwater's. California today believes in Big Government, open borders, diversity, multiculturalism and the politics of compassion. But what liberalism has wrought in California, its native-born are fleeing.

Still, where California is at, America is headed.

Californians who are running away from the communities and towns in which they were raised have Arizona, Idaho, Colorado, Utah and Nevada to head to. But when all of America arrives at where California is at today, where do the Americans run to?
 AceOfSpace

Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 150
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The California Collapse
Posted: 6/26/2009 11:52:07 PM

"A bleak picture of the corrosive effects of ethnic diversity has been revealed in research by Harvard University's Robert Putnam, one of the world's most influential political scientists. His research shows that the more diverse a community is, the less likely its inhabitants are to trust anyone -- from their next-door neighbor to the mayor."

"In the presence of diversity, we hunker down," said Putnam. "We act like turtles. The effect of diversity is worse than had been imagined. And it's not just that we don't trust people who are not like us. In diverse communities, we don't trust people who do look like us."


This might be true in SoCal, but I found it to be very different in the Bay Area, where diversity has been much more readily embraced. It is a cultural difference, not a universal truth. Trust is a choice that people make, and the insular "in-group" trend in SoCal is a matter of choice, not instinct. It is something that I truly dislike about SoCal. This place might be diverse, but it isn't integrated. And that lack of integration is, from what I can gather, more about laziness than anything else.
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