| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/3/2009 1:59:37 PM | What we need is people who voted for or are registered Democrats on the Canadian or Cuban system. Frankly I'm not interested in any of your death -0f-common-sense authoritarian dreams. You should have no more say over my choice of health care options than you do over my purchase of a chain saw. It is not your chain saw resource, you have no say.
Health care discussions have become an exercise in the silly. Among the things prolonging life, health care is likely far down the list after fresh water, food, housing, and avoding stupidly (sic) behavior. Butt out. Health care is a product. I don't need your help. People who think it takes a village need your help. Go help them. Leave adults alone. Get Michael Moore to convince people Cuba is healthcare paradise, I'll help pay for their plane trip, one way. If they are really sick, they won't need a RT. If they aren't sick perhaps they will catch something that will make them sick. Darwinism at it's best. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/3/2009 2:34:20 PM | It is not your chain saw resource, you have no say.
If your plan is to use it to cut down the last remaining redwood, I beg to differ.
But again, your need to validate your sense of superiority at the expense of useful dialogue is clear. Good luck to you! | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/5/2009 9:18:16 PM |
What we need is people who voted for or are registered Democrats on the Canadian or Cuban system. Frankly I'm not interested in any of your death -0f-common-sense authoritarian dreams. You should have no more say over my choice of health care options than you do over my purchase of a chain saw. It is not your chain saw resource, you have no say.
Health care discussions have become an exercise in the silly. Among the things prolonging life, health care is likely far down the list after fresh water, food, housing, and avoding stupidly (sic) behavior. Butt out. Health care is a product. I don't need your help. People who think it takes a village need your help. Go help them. Leave adults alone. Get Michael Moore to convince people Cuba is healthcare paradise, I'll help pay for their plane trip, one way. If they are really sick, they won't need a RT. If they aren't sick perhaps they will catch something that will make them sick. Darwinism at it's best.
This is the dumbest thing I've read today. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/6/2009 9:11:39 AM | Message 205
The nationalized health care scheme has already played out in other countries and states.
Why repeat a failed experiment?
Golfcoast wants to be master of his destiny. He wants to be FREE to choose how he handles his health care. In a country founded on freedom and liberty that should be a given.
Read the CBO report yourself, not just sound bites by talking heads. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/6/2009 9:39:23 AM | I am currently reading the entire bill that was put out by the House and it is simply scary. Has very little to do with care.
There is a clause that if you choose not to have health care they can go into your bank account and take your premium any way. If you are enrolled you will only have EFT as a choice to pay and if your account does not have enough money to pay your premium you will get fined. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/6/2009 9:44:54 AM | Funny about that Darwinism thing. Conservatives just love to trot it out when it would apply to those who are different from them in some identifiable way.
I wonder what survival value a superior attitude of entitlement used to confer. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/6/2009 9:58:14 AM |
The nationalized health care scheme has already played out in other countries and states.
Why repeat a failed experiment?
So has the "unfettered free market" experiment.
Let's try something really new. Let's treat heath care the same way we do any other utility that we want to provide universally. Make hospitals regulated monopolies. They are monopolies for the most part after all. If you have two of them in the same region, one of them is typically a specialized facility of some sort. Charge every household a rate that is calculated by a combination of the average property value per square foot and the average population density within the hospital's emergency service area, and let doctors bid for operating privileges based on their qualifications and rates.
We need a new model that reflects the nature of the transactions involved in medical care. When you have three-way transactions, a regulated monopoly model is the best compromise. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/6/2009 10:32:45 AM |
So has the "unfettered free market" experiment.
Yes and we have the best health care system in the world. When world leaders need medical care, they come to the U.S..
Liberal Tax strategy
If it moves, tax it
If it keeps moving, regulate it
If it stops moving, subsidize it
Government is not the solution, it is the problem. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/6/2009 12:32:37 PM | I was out of town for a few weeks last year, when did this unfettered capitalism occur?
One comes to assume we are dealing with intolerably stupid, or intolerably dishonest, idealogical opponents (keyword intelerable). | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/6/2009 1:11:17 PM |
There is a clause that if you choose not to have health care they can go into your bank account and take your premium any way. If you are enrolled you will only have EFT as a choice to pay and if your account does not have enough money to pay your premium you will get fined.
Forced health care is tyranny. It is also encroachment into people's privacy on so many levels. What's up with all of these czars? When did the word czar become associated with the U.S.? These people are hard line communists and even use their terminology. Hello?
People wake up! | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/6/2009 4:30:55 PM | I've had better health care access, as a tourist, in other countries. Ours is atrocious. The quality of care really is not the question - we do have the best health care. We have the worst access.
I don't think what's being pushed in Washington is the best thing either. I'm all for reform, but I'm also all for choice. From what I've read, there's quite a bit of weird stuff in the bill. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/6/2009 5:13:13 PM | Fender you must be kidding, our access is fantastic. Canadians who get in health trouble have MRI's and surgery in the USA in 24 hours from doctors and hospitals they've never heard of prior to that horrible moment when they hear "very sick, 24 months".
If your meaning of access is some kind of card that has a signature of a famous politician....well you keep the fancy official looking card, I'll take my access.
PS in many countries, incl. 1st world countries primary care is delivered by a pharmacist or nurse, who while being very competent and dedicated and deserving of respect, are not trained in deep diagnosis.
But it is my fondest hope those of you who want Obama care get it, I really do. And one day there will be entire board dedicated to horror stories of "Complete Life Systems" analysis which I'm from this moment forward just going to call "euthanasia with a big smile". | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/6/2009 5:13:35 PM | Pirate the czars are in place to take over sectors of the economy as Obama and his crew systematically collapse them. They will become industry sector regulators, just look at what the current active czars are doing, car czar, pay czar, the writing is on the wall.
I believe that when Obama went to visit Hugo Chavez it wasn't to confront him, it was to get advice on how to take over. By the way, did they ever publish the title of the book that Chavez gave him. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/7/2009 3:37:11 PM | | Have faith. Never forget we have the power to clean out Congress at the polls. And we can clean out the White House, too, by impeaching ANY president. Whoever in he!! he thinks he is. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/7/2009 4:07:15 PM | I'm reading the LA Times Sports page...
The budget cuts are effecting the schools in this way.... For one...... Swimming, diving and a few other sports are cut out of UC Irvine... Some Olympians on those squads. They get to finish the season... than the school will help them transfer... Coaches have 60 days on their contracts.
Cal Football will bus down to play UCLA.. San Diego State will bus out to Nevada....not a big deal... UCLA Baseball won't be playing teams out of state like Oklahoma... instead play 3 game series with teams like Cal State Fullerton or Long Beach... (just an example)
Junior Colleges will stop playing teams so far away as well, Changing their conferences and rescheduling to play closer to home.
A lot of High Schools will be hit as well....
I know this sports thing doesn't matter to a lot of people... But it really effects those on scholarships. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/7/2009 5:41:02 PM |
The budget cuts are effecting the schools in this way.... For one...... Swimming, diving and a few other sports are cut out of UC Irvine... Some Olympians on those squads. They get to finish the season... than the school will help them transfer... Coaches have 60 days on their contracts.
Don't worry Jack; we are providing free health care for illegal aliens. Those kids can take solace in that thought. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/7/2009 11:17:15 PM |
Yes and we have the best health care system in the world. When world leaders need medical care, they come to the U.S..
It is the best health care system in the world if you are rich. If you aren't, it's not available to you. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/8/2009 12:15:48 AM | | Basic health care was available to almost everyone, until states forced insurance companies to pay for dozens of things like massage therapy and acupuncture. By making treatments of this sort cheap for consumers (but expensive for the employers who usually provide their health insurance) governments ensured a high demand for them. Supposedly, you insure against unexpected medical expenses only. If we could restore that limited coverage, it would make rates far lower. If would want massage therapy, pay for it yourself. It would also help a lot if we didn't have to treat illegal aliens, which we pay the cost of. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/8/2009 10:14:42 AM | Match,
This makes sense. Unfortunately, not treating people who need it creates public health risks, but no-frills care would certainly help.
There are other frills too, that people who want can pay for themselves. Viagra for one. If that isn't an example of corporate welfare I am a flamingo. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/8/2009 1:39:17 PM |
It is the best health care system in the world if you are rich. If you aren't, it's not available to you.
When people start stretching the truth, I wonder why they are lying to me. ANYONE, ANYONE in this country can walk into an emergency room and by LAW, they have to treat them whether or not they can PAY.
There are also numerous FREE clinics that address all kinds of illnesses.
We are the most generous people on the planet. When people need help, we give it to them. To suggest otherwise is a disgrace. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/8/2009 11:30:23 PM | PH,
Before the bubble burst, medical expenses were the most prevalent cause of personal bankruptcy. We don't just give it to them. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/8/2009 11:41:37 PM | Hi, I'm new to this thread...interesting topic.
Whereas we do have a health care system envied by much of the world, and we do supply free health care to those unable to afford their own insurance, you have to admit that the insurance companies have gotten out of control. I'm totally against Nobama's health care plan - he doesn't seem to give much thought to any of his plans that he is rushing through Congress - and think that there is a much simpler way of ensuring that everyone has health insurance. How about requiring private health insurance to offer a minimal service plan at graduated prices based on income, or expand the medicare insurance to include low income? | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 8/9/2009 5:01:50 AM | Sunny in a respect insurance is already too expensive because of the suggestions you've made. One will hear mention of "if we could buy insurance polices across states lines it would be good". What does that mean? it means states already, in some cases dictate who must be covered and at what limits. Secondly those uninsured are being taken care of, their costs are simply passed on to us in vaarious ways, for example ER visits are other worldly expensive (to insured) because the hospital is recapturing the costs of uninsured by passing on to us.
Get the government out. Let insururers develop policies that do not have to carry high risk people in same pool as low risk, stop utilizing insurance for day to day treatment (like we do in dentistry, no sense in prepaying our insurer as that is what it is occurring), make insurance more a major medical model (like having high deductibles on our car insurance, we can afford any repair up to e.g., $1,000).
Lastly any discussion of insurance that does not start with removing legal costs, creating defensive medicine is a fraud. The $10 aspirin is $9.50 worth of paperwork and a 50 cent aspirin.Like the $600 toilet seat in aerospace and defense contracting, I always ask "how can they sell it so cheap? it probably costs $2,000 just to accept and load the order into the system.
Whenever something doesn't make sense, look a little closer and you'll find the people who are here to save the day, have "reformed" this area several times before.
So I disagree, insuruers are not out of control, they are simply operating on a playing field created by the powers that be and are always going to outsmart them. Always. | |
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