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Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?      Home login  
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 FunkyMonkee
Joined: 4/7/2009
Msg: 51
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Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids? Page 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
The thing is the teachers that know they have genuine cases often get left with them.

It is true that adhd used to go undaiagnosed and people may be being unkind but the sentiment may be that "normal" is extremely wide a definition covering a whole range of behaviours and when we start labelling people as mildly this and that it seems on the surface to be used more as an excuse for people giving up on themselves or being given up on or labelled in a way that doesnt foster a can do attitude, which if fostered ight have better results.

Most people are not experts and maybe people are getting tired of hearing my child has this or that - there is hardly a day goes by withourt hearing about someone that is mildly autistic or got adhd etc....
 Paulinemab
Joined: 2/12/2009
Msg: 52
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/27/2009 5:13:07 PM

Most people are not experts and maybe people are getting tired of hearing my child has this or that - there is hardly a day goes by withourt hearing about someone that is mildly autistic or got adhd etc....



Well why should they be? I think people should be thankful that they don't need to live with it. As for it being a myth, a friend of mine works in a school that is mainstream but also caters for kids with ADHD. Some of the stories would break your heart. There are parents who have had to clear their house of every bit of crockery because it has been bounced off every wall.
There are kids who if they don't take their medication in the morning, are bouncing off walls by mid afternoon. You cannot put every single behavioural difficulty in kids/adolescents down to E numbers or bad behaviour, there are some children who for some reason or another have ADHD.

I've worked with kids who have Aspergers which is on the Autism spectrum, believe me it is not easy. I spent four months last year working with a group and 2 of the young people had Aspergers and ADHD combined and it was beyond stressful.
God knows what it was like for the parents. I have also worked in a youth group with a young person who had severe Autism. The two hours a week that young person was at the group was the only time his carer had to himself, they got nil support from the social work department.
Spend five minutes in the company of that boy and you know that he is autistic and that nothing is being made up.

I think for those people who think that stuff like this is invented, those parents who get DLA for their kids, would much rather that they didn't have the condition.
Where is the compassion or the understanding. No one chooses to have these kinds of conditions.
 Hanneke
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 53
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 3:34:45 AM

My nephew has been diagnosed with it, he also has Tourette's and will soon have a test to see if he might be autistic at all.


Well, lo and behold, further to my previous comment my mum now told me last night that my nephew has been misdiagnosed on Tourette's - he does not have it. So for the past several years he has been bullied and been on medication for a condition he did not have after all.

In case you're wondering - no, he does not swear a lot out of habit. He doesn't swear at all, the swearing is only in a small percentage of sufferers, but the most interesting aspect and usually shown on tv and in other media.

When I brought up the ADHD, my mum said 'Oh no, he definitely has that.'.

Yes, okay, but they also initially said he definitely had Tourette's!
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 5:39:22 AM
I've pretty well bitten my lip and kept quiet over this post but after reading three pages of drivel I have to speak up.

My personal feelings and experience put the bad behaviour of British children down to the p1ss poor standard of parenting in the UK.

Over the last couple of years we've had a large influx of British immigrants, notably young families with parents in their thirties or early forties, often with a family of three or four children under the age of ten.

Last year I spent in furniture retail and their presence was particularly noticable, on entering a store the children are just ignored, and allowed to do as they wish.
Consequently they run amok, hurtling around a shop as if it were an adventure playground, they wreck dislays, jump up and down on furniture are cheeky to staff and other customers, strew price tickets and movables all over the floor generally making an unwelcome nuisance of themselves.

Whilst I believe there are some cases of the syndrome, which as I mentioned in my earlier post I think have something to do with modern living in a Western society, I don't think all the children in a family would necessarily have the same condition.
And when you see the parents abdicate all responsibility it doesn't take much mathermatical genius to put two and two together and come up with the answer that a good clip under the ear would solve the problem rather than all the pshyco babble that's being spouted.

There is no substitute for decent parenting.

This week I've been following the story about madeline McCain, how can any parent leave children of that age unprotected?
Also read about the horrific end of Baby Peter, left to die in his blood spattered cot with a broken back !

I don't think ADHD is a problem with British children.
I think they have a far worse problem to contend with. Their parents.

Rob.....
 willow
Joined: 12/11/2005
Msg: 55
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 6:07:06 AM

Consequently they run amok, hurtling around a shop as if it were an adventure playground, they wreck dislays, jump up and down on furniture are cheeky to staff and other customers, strew price tickets and movables all over the floor generally making an unwelcome nuisance of themselves.


I can honestly say my son has never done anything like the above, was always well behaved when out and about shopping etc, to me that is parents who dont care what their children do in a store and their fault as much as the child's for having no regard for other people or their property.

Just because a child may have ADHD or Aspergers doesnt necessarily make them little monsters when out in public.
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 6:18:18 AM
I quite agree with you Willow.

The point that I was making is that too often it's the parents that are to blame not the children.
 vwulme
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 57
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Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 6:20:32 AM

Just because a child may have ADHD or Aspergers doesnt necessarily make them little monsters when out in public.


Agreed there are many who manage to be little monsters all on there own without any diagnosis of anything. Kids are not born knowing how to behave they have to be told and shown what to do and how to behave, not just reprimanded when they get it wrong.

However I firmly believe there is a huge problem with BBB (bright but bored) kids who learn to play the system.
 nortyraskull
Joined: 10/12/2007
Msg: 58
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 7:24:45 AM
I have to agree that there are some parents who wish such afflictions on their kids to excuse their own lack of parenting skills or the fact that they think a screaming match with the a child equals discipline, and of course the ones that can see pound signs if the kids get diagnosed with something that attracts a care allowance and suchlike.
But I dont believe that either is a "new" illness, just an old one that was misunderstood for some time, and from what I can gather is treatable with a combination of counselling and/or drugs.
I do however believe that a lot of similar behaviour comes from lack of guidance and discipline in the early years, I'm not suggesting we beat them and feed them gruel, but a firm word and punishment/reward seems to go a long way in my house, I have been criticized for sometimes being a little harsh in not giving chance after chance, but thats been from other parents who's kids run riot, "their only kids once" is often the comment I hear, my reply is "exactly, I'll never get another chance to help them become well behaved people"!
 allwoman54
Joined: 1/16/2009
Msg: 59
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 7:53:23 AM
I actually surprisingly agree with the chap at Msg 54 (I think thats the one) robormitch...

Good parenting seems, in many cases these days, to be a thing of the past. Discipline is practically non-existent...the little darlings must have all their own way and actually rule the parents. They can do no wrong, the sun shines out of them, they have not been taught right from wrong, not been taught limits and boundaries.

I accept that there are genuine cases of ADHD and all the hurdles and difficulties that must come with it.

If anyone has ever seen the TV programme SuperNanny you will see some of the most horrendous behaviour you could imagine of the children there, these kids have been allowed to rule the roost and have never been told no...and what does SuperNanny do?

She re-educates the parents...not the children.

She teaches the parents to show limits and boundaries to their childrens bad behaviour, and in every case the child/children respond positively after an initial struggle for power and life gets better for all.

Some parents are too soft with their children and its easier for them to give into the child rather than say no.

In answer to the question, yes I believe ADHD can be used as an excuse for poor parenting.
 lostsoulmoma
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 60
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 4:07:34 PM
maybe we should all leave this alone now as the people who are expert in their field or work with kids with the condition know what they have to do and deal with and all thats required.

Yep a good slap on the face did me a lot of good and so did my mothers attitude- she was strict- she also never once told me she loved me or put an arm round me or played with me .

I AM MENTALLY ILL- i have been 'obviously so' since 16 and will be for the rest of my life.

I was not abused or wanted for anything although my gran was soft so I had confusing messages and parents with no time. I have only realised in the past 5 years that I have to cope with a certain amount myself - THATS MY 'CAN DO' ATTITUDE that was mentioned. I try to keep open mind to others opinions but Im darn sick of this -all giving tuppence worth of old fashioned rhetoric on a subject you have no darned facts on!!!
As they do in some life swap stories etc- TRY WALKING A MILE IN ANOTHER MANS SHOES! YES - kids need boundries and rules that we adhere to as adults but Im ashamed for the times Ive smacked my kids- because it makes me a hypocrite , when it tell them not to hit each other but to compromise and give a reasoned adult argument. Or just walk away.

Dont come the morale high ground- yeah yeah everything was SO much better 20-30-40 years ago, still had drunken wife beaters, peadophiles, rapists and child abuse. IT JUST WASNT SEEN OR PUBLISCISED.
 Sexytrish36
Joined: 8/22/2007
Msg: 61
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 4:19:15 PM
Just because a child may have ADHD or Aspergers doesnt necessarily make them little monsters when out in public.


I have been watchin this thread with some anticipation... Now i will speak!!

My son who is now 21 was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 7 after being Expelled from Junior school, after getting frustrated and not being able to concentrate.

He was assessed also given a Brain Scan, then reluctently put on Ritalin... (after much deliberation of me and his dad) And that did calm him down alot...
He was not just a "Naughty Kid" as alot of you say on here that ADHD is just an excuse for a kid to let off steam... .I struggled with it for almost 12 years and its bloody hard...

Maybe some of you had better read up about it before judging us parents
 Paulinemab
Joined: 2/12/2009
Msg: 62
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 4:31:16 PM
Perhaps ADHD can be used as an excuse for poor parenting, by some, however someone who has a child who has been diagnosed with ADHD and has certain difficulties should not always be lumped into the poor parenting category. I can understand that sometimes people get misdiagnosed and that some parents don't set boundaries with their children but that does not mean that there aren't some very loving very caring parents who have children who do have ADHD, or Aspergers, or Autism.

As the above poster said, the it never happened in my day is a pile of old rubbish in my view, it did, people were just labelled as mental and locked up in asylums.

I worked with an man in a housing project who was obviously mildly Autistic, he was in his 60s and had spent 40 odd years in an institution. In those days the medical profession did not understand conditions like that. People were just labelled retarded.

1. What is ADHD?
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder is a genetically determined condition that affects those parts of the brain that control attention, impulses and concentration. It is thought to affect 3 to 7% of school age children.1 2 The best description for ADHD is that a child who suffers from this condition shows disruptive behaviours which cannot be explained by any other psychiatric condition and are not in keeping with those of the same-aged people with similar intelligence and development. These behaviours are usually first noticed in early childhood, and they are more extreme than simple “misbehaving”. Children with ADHD have difficulty focussing their attention to complete a specific task. Additionally they can be hyperactive and impulsive and can suffer from mood swings and “social clumsiness”.

2. When does ADHD develop?
ADHD develops in childhood and is most commonly noticed at the age of 5.1 Research suggests that 80% of children diagnosed with ADHD continue to experience symptoms during adolescence and 67% continue to have symptoms into adulthood.1

3. Does every person with ADHD have the same symptoms?
The symptoms of ADHD (impulsivity, hyperactivity and inattention) are not seen to the same degree in all people diagnosed with this condition. As a result, clinicians recognise three types of people with ADHD2: -

The mostly (predominantly) hyperactive-impulsive type
The mostly (predominantly) inattentive type
The combined type (which make up the majority of ADHD cases)

There is also a fourth type, which does not fit into any of the three categories and which healthcare professionals classify as ADHD not otherwise specified.2

4. What causes ADHD?
ADHD has multiple causes. However the evidence so far shows that it is not caused by poor parenting, rather, it is caused by a complicated combination of factors. These factors include changes in those parts of the brain which control impulses and concentration (neurobiological factors) and genetic, inherited and environmental factors.
 jessicca_02
Joined: 9/9/2007
Msg: 63
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 5:05:53 PM
Paulinemab, if ADHD was genetic, or neurobiological factors, then surely there would and could be conclusive tests and not theories when it comes to diagnosis?

Okay, I am gonna add my say to this thread from two points of view. Firstly my sisters child was diagnosed with ADHD some many years ago, and has been forced to take pills most his life. She was able to get a lot of money from the state for this. The boy got into a lot of trouble and now they cannot manage his behaviour and so lives with me. I don't see any of the behaviours they have seen and myself and the professionals involved know this is down to bad parenting on my sisters part.

From a teaching point of view, we have criteria to meet and goals which the child must achieve. I have witnessed teachers label a child with conditions, yet in all truthfulness, the childs lack of concentration in classroom environment, is mostly down to the how good the teacher is and if they are prepared to teach ensuring equality and inclusiveness, rather than meet government targets. Classrooms in the Uk are too big with many different cultures that the teacher needs to address which mean children who don't fully understand, are left out which can cause them to misbehave rather than feel stupid.

I do believe there are geniune cases of children with the condition out there, but am saddened by those who misdiagnose when the childs environmental factors are clearly to blame.
 Calray
Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 64
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/28/2009 9:47:04 PM
What is interesting is that no one has mentioned that children with adhd grow up to become adults with adhd. This is not something you grow out of. It's very real, it's very life controlling, and it's very frustrating. I know. I'm diagnosed, though very much closeted, with ADD (I generally would never bring this up).

I get frustrated when I read threads like this, because so many feel like they can speak with authority on something they know nothing about. Most of my teachers and I were constantly at war with each other because of my distractibility in class, or my total incapacity to be organized. One teacher had a system where you got detention at lunch every time you forgot a pencil, or your homework assignment. I was in the sixth grade, and by the time I was done with him, I'd racked up enough detentions to get me into my freshman year(this is not hyperbole, it's litterally true). And what made matter worse was that even thought I had these battles with my teachers, I always did well enough to maintain A's and B's and score in the upper 5 percentile in aptitude tests. So obviously it's not a lack of capacity, he's just not trying hard enough.

And my poor parents. What they had to go through when I was growing up. People passing judgement on them because my socks were mismatched (didn't help that I'm also color blind) or that I left for school and forgot to comb my hair. Teachers complaining to them that they needed to make sure that time was set aside to do my homework, when the real problem was that I had been distracted by the section of the text I wasn't supposed to be reading. No parenting wasn't the issue. truth is that particular boy wasn't built for the structured learning environment that schools force kids into.
 nortyraskull
Joined: 10/12/2007
Msg: 65
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/29/2009 2:18:29 AM

I get frustrated when I read threads like this, because so many feel like they can speak with authority on something they know nothing about


I dont think anyone is denying that these conditions exist and are a very real and difficult thing to deal with and in some cases is blamed on poor parenting, but the reverse is also true, poor parenting can be and has been mistaken for ADD/ADHD, and I personally have been present when a parent whose child had been diagnosed with ADD was instructing another parent on how to get their child to behave in order to fool people into beleiving he had the same in order to be able to claim DLA for the child.

In no way am I trying to say that everyone is using it as an excuse for poor parenting, thats not true, I'm sorry if my post came across that way,but there are folk who will take advantage of any situation, much the same as the thousands claiming mobility for bad backs, then jogging round the park or playing golf etc, sad but true.
 Aitch Em
Joined: 3/3/2009
Msg: 66
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/29/2009 2:37:16 AM

Maybe some of you had better read up about it before judging us parents


Nobody is having a go at parents of genuine ADHD sufferers, Trish. We're simply hacked off with those who cite, falsely, that their child suffers from such a condition in order to absolve themselves of the responsibility of their unruly child/children's behaviour because they're too damned lazy to discipline them themselves. If anything, I think the majority of contributors to this thread are very sympathetic to the genuine cases & the difficulties they face.
 csi8
Joined: 12/28/2008
Msg: 67
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/29/2009 2:54:06 AM
The tests and questioning that has to be gone through to get a correct dx of add/adhd/asd, all of which are stand alone spectrums, although can be co morbids of each other, should rule out parents using it as an excuse

Unfortunately, it doesnt because its far easier to label a child through word of mouth, as they are all 'hidden disabilities', than instill the correct discipline

imo, as a parent of a young adult with correctly dx'd asd with comorbids of dyspraxia, prospopagnosia, tourettes [theres no such thing as 'mild' with spectrum disorders by the way] anyone being labelled without correct diagnosis, from a trained specialist, should be treated as being a victim of munchausens., either by proxy, if dxd by untrained professionals such as gp's,teachers,sencos or parents, or full blown, if self dx'd [youd be surprised how many adults do ]

by the way for the person who asked, the correct term is neurotypical, not normal
 yorkslass
Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 68
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/29/2009 2:57:50 AM
my daughter was a naughty kid for years she didnt hve adhd she was just naughty, shes over it now and shes grown into a lovely young woman
 xcheekychappyx
Joined: 2/28/2009
Msg: 69
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/29/2009 5:42:40 AM
It is worth pointing out that being naughty is not the only symptom of ADHD, in fact in my childs case I wouldn't even call being naughty a symptom. As 13 year old boys go he's a little angel 99% of the time. Frustration and concentration are the biggest issues my child faces. He works very hard in school but his progress is slow, those 7 A's I mentioned on his last report were all for effort rather than from academic acheivment.

He is in the Air Cadets and will appear perfectly attentive during final parade but he will walk out with no clue of what was said because whilst he knows how to behave he is unable to stay focussed on the actual briefing for long enough to retain much of what was said.

In public you would never know he has ADHD, he can and does behave as well as any other 13 year old boy (and better than many). At home the signs are more apparent but these are him letting out his frustration by banging the computer keyboard, or bashing his xbox joypad, or getting annoyed at inanimate objects rather than being naughty.

I can only judge based on my own boy but I'm guessing most of the issues around ADHD kids boil down to managing their frustration. That frustration usually manifests in a loss of temper and or a full blown tantrum. In extreme cases these can be very tough on a parent because the loss of temper can result in a danger to others in the household. Tantrums can be so wearing on a parent that it becomes easier to give in, which ultimately reinforces the tantrums creating a viscious cycle that becomes very hard to break.
 csi8
Joined: 12/28/2008
Msg: 70
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/29/2009 5:52:47 AM

That frustration usually manifests in a loss of temper and or a full blown tantrum. In extreme cases these can be very tough on a parent because the loss of temper can result in a danger to others in the household


they're called meltdowns for darned good reasons arent they

whilst its very true some kids dont get the parents they deserve
some, thankfully, do
next time one of you tut tutts at a childs behaviour or a parents perceived lack of discipline, take a breath and think
how many of those behaviours does that parent have to cope with on an hourly basis
and
could you??

sometimes,as parents, we have to pick our battles
 willow
Joined: 12/11/2005
Msg: 71
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 5/29/2009 7:12:25 AM

What is interesting is that no one has mentioned that children with adhd grow up to become adults with adhd.


I have, my son is 22 . I have to get a sitter in for my son whenever I go out or away as he isnt safe to be left alone in the house..
 Osiris13
Joined: 7/26/2008
Msg: 72
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 6/7/2009 4:50:13 PM
I saw a load of adults a while ago with ADHD and Tourettes. It was in a busy pub/club area. Not sure if the drink had anything to do with it.
 MissingMinx
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 73
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 6/8/2009 3:18:33 AM
Hi macforty, as the mother of an ADHD kid (now adult) there's a lot of stuff written about ADHD which is incorrect. (real) ADHD is neurological in origin and always presents with another disabitity such as dyslexia or dysgraphia (inablity to write properly). Genuinely ADHD kids become ADHD adults - its a lifelong condition, although by their 20s kids have learned coping strategies and function very well - great fun at parties too LOL! However, a diagnosis from a GP and/or a Clinical Psychologist and Occupational Therapists is a must. You're right - too many people call children with basic lack of discipline "ADHD" when they are nothing of the sort.

If you're considering a relationship with someone with an ADHD kid a great book to read is Dr. Christopher Green's "Understanding ADHD" which is about £8 from Amazon.

Minx
 MissingMinx
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 74
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 6/8/2009 3:30:01 AM
Incidentally, its really interesting to view what other people think of, and how they view ADHD and what sorts of information/misinformation they do have.

One thing which isn't mentioned here is that the schools have a vested interest in NOT diagnosing ADHD and its associated co-morbidities - to do so means they then have to apply resource. Resource costs money. So if you suspect your child of having ADHD and are finding no help from the school or the GP -take them to a Clinical Psychologist and have their concentration spectrums tested. The schools and GPs are thereafter unable to offset an ADHD diagnosis. It will cost about £200 but may be the saving of your child in the school system, until such time as our antidiluvian government stops trying to "include" ADHD children in mainstream schools. Most ADHD kids are highly intelligent and able people - however, they need to be taught in a different environment by people who know how the condition affects them - my own experience was that the single most damaging thing for my son was the mainstream school environment.
 MissingMinx
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 75
Are conditions like ADHD an excuse for parents who have naughty kids?
Posted: 6/8/2009 3:32:01 AM
Calray - I can so relate to what you are saying, as will anyone with genuine knowledge of ADHD.

I'm so glad that you managed to overcome the hell that was mainstream school and do so well - congratulations to you.

Minx x
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