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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/2/2009 9:46:48 AM |
I haven't heard the word "honky" except on TV. LMAO ... in the jail where I worked, the black dudes (and even my co-workers) would call each other the "N" word all the time. The black inmates would call the Caucasian inmates (even the Hispanics) ""Whitey"/"Honky"". I've never heard it used so much as down in Florida where I lived for a few years.
And "rapper crap"? It is too bad that you do not choose to express yourself without getting condescending cultural digs in. Saying "rapper crap" is now considered a "condescending cultural dig"?
Excuse me, but what culture did I send a dig to now? Let me guess ... when I said "rapper crap" I insulted the blacks? In our neighborhood, it wasn't the blacks who were cruising all night with their BA BOOM, BA BOOM /pimped out boom boom cars. It was the wanna be blacks and skin headed rednecks with their jacked up pickup trucks and cars that lived in nearby neighborhoods.
They'd come over in our neighborhood (until the gates closed at around 9 PM) and cruise our neighborhood blasting that sh!t/profanity. If the gates weren't functioning, they'd be there half the doggone night.
If not music, perhaps you could call it "rhythmic poetry" instead of "crap." LMAO ... poetry?
Poetry filled with the "N" word and any "F" word one can think of? Poetry filled with rants about wanting to kill people and encouraging men to rape women?
OT ...
Who cares if they changed the dictionary ... they do it all the time. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/2/2009 10:16:08 AM |
but what culture did I send a dig to now?
Artforms are initially identified with the culture of their origin, or, maybe more accurately in this case, a certain subculture (and that doesn't mean "inferior to a culture" btw). That identity can become reflexive-- i.e. the subculture can conversely be identified by a certain artform. In this case, rap is the artform that defines a subculture. So your assumption that I was referring only to blacks is overly simplistic and incorrect, as you yourself showed in your next few sentences.
You also focus on the most base examples of rap to indict the artform in its entirety. That is fallacious reasoning. In case you should make another incorrect assumption, I am not a fan of rap; I am a respector of artforms.
OT
Who cares if they changed the dictionary ... they do it all the time.
Clearly, the OP cares, and you care enough to post to her thread quite frequently. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/2/2009 1:19:37 PM |
And "rapper crap"? It is too bad that you do not choose to express yourself without getting condescending cultural digs in. Saying "rapper crap" is now considered a "condescending cultural dig"? Excuse me, but what culture did I send a dig to now? Let me guess ... when I said "rapper crap" I insulted the blacks? So your assumption that I was referring only to blacks is overly simplistic and incorrect ...
Who cares if they changed the dictionary ... they do it all the time. ... you care enough to post to her thread quite frequently.
If it's no big deal TO YOU -- why are you making such a big deal of it? I'm not making a "big deal" of it. The deal I'm making is that it's just not "landmark" or "earth-shattering".
Changing it in a book is not going to change how people use it in a demeaning way. Changing it in a book is not going to change having it shoved down our throat all the time with "BA BOOM BA BOOM/boom boom cars" blasting it at stop lights.
Seems to me that if they don't want people to use the word they should try to impress people not to put in the lyrics of their rap crap ... eh? | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/4/2009 6:47:43 PM | Yep. And it would not be the first double standard to exist in this world and it will not be the last.
Fair enough. Then should it not be considered just as ridiculous as every other double standard we have?
Double standards abound in society, though, and some are much more accepted than others-- women can wear men's jeans just fine, but have you seen a man wear women's jeans? I sure haven't.
Actually, the emo/indie culture is filled with kids that do that very thing. It's a fashion trend there.
LMAO ... poetry?
Poetry filled with the "N" word and any "F" word one can think of? Poetry filled with rants about wanting to kill people and encouraging men to rape women?
As with everything, there is good and bad. And as with all types of music, if you only hear the popular stuff, you're probably only going to hear the bad.
Not all rap is filled with profanity, misogyny, and violence. Just most of the garbage on the radio and the music charts. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/5/2009 10:49:20 AM | [Historically, African-American's picked up the bad habit of referring to themselves by the derogatory term N***a from their slave masters and never stopped.
To and from each otherthe word does not hold the same meaning as it does when it is coming from the lips of a racist.]
That's about the poorest excuse I could imagine....You're saying that every other race on the planet should have enough gumption to learn not to use a duragitory name for other races but black people just can't help themselves and learn not to call themselves that? So you take a whole new generation of kids from other races who grow up hearing blacks calling themselves that and they are going to what else, think that is the proper term for the race as taught by who?
As far as it holding a different meaning, that depends, I've heard different adjectives used in front of the word that I'm sure the black person refering to another black person did not intend it to be complimentary.
This is poor judgement , similar to rappers refering to women as trash, gutter ho's, and a host of other degrading descriptions making women go out and buy their music, make them celebrities, and make it the invironment to raise their kids.
If I made a country music album about putting a cap in my neighbors buttox, and all the girls I know are whores and biatches you know how many albums I'd sell?, Zilch.
If I started calling my friends slang names used as insults by other races, they wouldn't see it as great, they'd think I had lost my mind, and am an idiot and a moron!
I have three or four black women on my favorites list, as much as their beauty and sharp wit was their obvious intellegence and being a class above this nonsense | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/5/2009 11:38:30 AM | Lot of good points brought up here. Just a few pennies to share:
A girlfriend of mine who is black refers to me (obviously not black) as "my n*gga" quite often. I am not offended because she doesnt use the term to insult me, rather as an endearment. If she were to say it without the affection that she has for me I doubt that I would appreciate it much..so, Charlie's right. Context matters. Would I refer to her as "my n*gga"? *in deep thought* No. I feel as though the stigma that surrounds the use of the word, by white folks, is not worth the possibility of any vilification of my character. Moving on~
OP Words are words and nothing more. When we lack character qualities such as humility and compassion, when we become enraged we seek means to inflict pain on other people and having the self-discipline to refrain from using physical force, we will lash out with our tongues. This is a sad fact. This will always be a sad fact. We could all join hands, sing Kumbaya and ban each and every hurtful word ever spoken.
And by morning we'd have 6 million new ones. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/6/2009 2:58:16 PM | two things:
1984, by George Orwell.
"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it"
To change the definition of a word in the dictionary because the DEFINITION is offensive is newspeak.
To remove an explanation of where the word came from, and how it's been historically used, against whom, and BY whom, is to attempt to re-write history. You can't learn any lessons from the past if you don't know it.
The N word is NOT a general "racial slur" against black/people of colour/whatever the hell the PC term is now.
It is a very specific word, used by southern whites, to refer to the black slave population in the American south. Highly insulting, racist, and derogatory.
I think the definition should be left the way it is - so people DO know *exactly* what it is, and where it came from. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/6/2009 11:58:23 PM | OK, look...
These words that seem so harsh and bad by today's standards meant very different things when they were first used.
We will get into context later but, lets get into the real history of these words and not the changed versions over time. Originally the "N word" as it is now called (silly huh?) was used to describe African slaves from the Niger region of Africa. The meaning has changed certainly over the different times it was used and yes it became a "racial slur."
It's true original meaning was a way to classify where a people were taken from in Africa to differentiate from others whom were taken from other regions. I can understand why the dictionary is changing with the times as it should but, the historical context should not be lost. Originally the term was used for blacks not because it was a bad word but, it helped to identify where the people were coming from because slaves were taken from other parts of Africa too and sent mostly to other places... It later became a term for any black person in this country and later yet became considered a racial slur...
The "C word" Cracker cracka etc. This also is a term that was originally used ONLY for very poor whites whom were so poor that they lived way out in the cut, surviving on mostly corn. They got the name from the fact that they "cracked corn" Thus becoming "crackers." Ever hear the song jimmy cracked corn and I don't care??? You will start to understand the meaning of the word Cracker/cracka if you get the meaning of the song..
This term was used mostly by upper class whites to differentiate themselves from the people whom mostly came from Scotland and Ireland many of them as indentured servants others whom came over how ever they could and since the other whites did not like them they carved out an existence in the deep woods and in some cases lived peaceably with the natives and in others cases warred with them.
There is nothing to be ashamed of in coming from the slave ships or as an indentured servant/poor background. I take no offense in either term and I am often called both in my neighborhood here in Georgia. Some of my black friends call me the N word some call me the C word all of it is out of love. They know I come from a poor background and I am just another one of them with lighter skin...
The N word has many many subtle variations in meaning these days. Context is key to understanding how you are using the terms...
If you use it with strangers whom do not know you and you are of the opposite skin color or perceived race then you will likely catch some flack for it. Some people are also very sensitive when it comes to these words due to their perceived meanings or their views on the words usage.
In my experience, people whom come from upper/middle class backgrounds regardless of color take more offense than those whom do not. IT all has to do with context and whom you are speaking to.
I have a good friend from Kentucky that lives down the street. He is a true "redneck" from the middle of no where Kentucky whom married to a "black" lady. He walks onto his porch most everyday after work as a silly ritual and says in his thick redneck accent, "Neegars get off my porch!" to all of their friends whom gathered there to drink some beer and chat. I have witnessed people whom were visiting from outside the neighborhood get nervous and uncomfortable until they see that no one ever takes offense, they will laugh and say how goes uncle Joe?! They also, call him a cracker and a redneck and "Nigga" he never takes offense either. It is kind of like a joke/term of endearment to some of us lower and some lower/middle class folk here in the south whom live side by side just fine.
I spoke to him one time about it because I had a lady whom got upset at the usage of the "N word" one time. He busted up laughing and he said what the hell is she so upset about there are plenty white neegars. His definition of the word was someone whom was from a poor background that was forced to work while the rich get fat and richer of them and their labor. He was sure one of those, he worked in construction his whole life.
I have lived up north too and let me tell ya there is FAR more racial issues up north where I lived than there ever is here in the dirty south.
When I lived up north not only did the races all live apart from each other and talk very nasty things about each other, even people of different ethnic backgrounds of the "same race" had their own neighborhoods and they seemed to hate each other too.
Now I aint saying everything is rosy down here racially all the time. We have our nuts down here too but, we pretty much in the city all live together. Now there are some folks out in the country whom are nutty for sure but, by and large most people down here get along and live side by side just fine. Even the majority of country folk much contrary to popular belief.
The great divide here in the south is mostly over class. Though even this is changing due to "gentrification."
I think the best thing to do if you are going to run a dictionary is to not only keep up with the times but, also keep the historic meanings as well. I think with regards to the "N word" it is best to keep the old meaning in there but, put the term historic or archaic/obsolete or some such * next to it so people do not forget the history.
Then I think they should list all of the new meanings these words have and there are many. Some times in certain context it is most definitely a slur, other times it is a term of endearment. I do not believe politicians nor the dictionary company itself should be trying to force their meanings for these words on the people. Language is a living thing that evolves over time. Each generation has their own relationship with words and each have their view of what things mean.
I believe in order to have the best possible dictionary would be to attempt to incorporate all of the variations.
Perhaps the way to make both the NAACP and people whom think like them happy (which they do have a point) The meaning has once again changed, and the book should reflect that. I believe there should be a long list of *slang meanings besides just the racial slur to reflect the way the word is used in a variety of other ways that have nothing to do with race. Again we should not be in the business of forcing other people to speak just like we do and force them to accept only one meaning for a word that is obviously used in more than one way.
It would be best to list all the variations but, yes the meaning should have changed quite a while ago as it has gone through several changes since then. To say the word is only a racial slur though is definitely a political agenda that has little basis in the reality of how the word is used.
*********************
All this talk about "rap music" and how bad it is etc really made me laugh.. If you grew up around it when you were younger you would understand it better. You would also know the original "rappers" were singing about some things that would make most upper class folk very uncomfortable.
For the most part it had nothing to do with "****es and hos" either. Though being that they are also a part of the reality of growing up in poor neighborhoods for the most part to try to sum it all up in a neat little classification. It was/is a method of expressing their frustration, pain, misery, dreams, happiness, situations, experiences in day to day life growing up poor in a system that hates one based on skin color and what class they were born into.
It was a tool/form of poetry to tell it like it is...
Now the music industry took a good thing and did what the industry be it music or movie often did to blacks and poor people whom tried to speak out against the inequity and sickness of our system. They made a caricature of what is being spoken about and it seems to sell better than the real thing to upper middle class and rich folk whom honestly in most cases have no real clue.
There of course is the gangster type thing too which is legitimately also part of the experience of coming up poor. In my view that stuff is what it is. It is a product of the environment of our F'd up system littered with inequity where we have rich and poor, "black" and "white." etc...
If you purposely have a system that makes sure there are rich and poor and then also couple that with prohibition of substances etc you will always have organized crime and from this gangster culture will pop up and take it's shape and it will not be pretty to those whom did not grow up around it, trust me it is not pretty to those of us whom did grow up around this, and also to many whom did it might seem the only way out of the rat trap.
I lost plenty of dear friends to this.. Many ended up in prison and many ended up in the morgue. Some got a small taste of riches before they went and there has to be something said about a sick system that sets the stage for this foolishness...
Allow me to share some real roots rap with you cotter I think if you take the time to listen to this you might get a better understanding of real rap music and not what the industry likes to force down our throats today instead. It covers the gamut of subjects the artists lived with day to day coming up on the streets which yes can be rough and tumble sometimes and have things that, to others whom do not live it might find disturbing. Others whom did not grow up around it might also think it is cool or neat and try to emulate it just like little boys play war thinking it is some kind of game or it is cute and neat/glorious instead of the truth of having your buddies face blown all over yours or watching him try to stuff his guts back in legless as he dies crying for his mama or being ordered to blow up civilians etc.
Sometimes the cats that make those kind of videos and songs about ****es hos violence etc are just singing about what they experience day to day in this experience of growing up getting the shit end of the stick. The reason I bring the industry up is they often purposefully give these kinds of songs more play and put the ones whom sing more profound things to the back burner so to speak.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4o8TeqKhgY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNcloTmvTeA
Below in case you cant understand the lyrics are printed....
Dear Mama Lyrics
You are appreciated...
When I was young, me and my mama had beef
17 years old kicked out on tha streets
though back in tha time, I never thought I'd see her face
ain't a woman alive that can take my momma's place
suspended from school, scared ta go home
I was a fool with tha big boys breaking all tha rules
shed tears with my baby sister
over tha years we wuz poorer than tha other little kids
and even though we had different daddies
tha same drama when things went wrong we blamed mama
I reminised on tha stress I caused, it wuz hell
hugg'en on my mama from a jail cell
and who'ed think in elementary, heeeey i'd see tha penitentiary
One day
running from tha Police, that's right
Momma catch me--put a whoop'en to my backside
and even as a crack fiend mama,
ya always was a black queen mama
I finally understand for a woman
it ain't easy--trying ta raise a man
ya always wuz commited, a poor single mother on welfare,
tell me how ya did it
there's no way I can pay ya back
but tha plan is ta show ya that I understand.
you are appreciated......
Chorus
Laaaaady, don't cha know we luv ya
Sweeeet Laaaady, place no one above ya
Sweeeet Laaaady, don't cha know we luv ya
Ain't nobody tell us it wuz fair
no luv for my daddy, cause tha coward wuzn't there
he passed away and I didn't cry
cause my anger, wouldn't let me feel for a stranger
they say i'm wrong and i'm heartless
but all along I wuz looking for a father--he wuz gone
I hung around with tha thug's and even though they sold drugs
they showed a young brother luv
I moved out and started really hang'in
I needed money of my own so I started slang'in
I ain't guilty cause, even though I sell rocks
It feels good, putting money in your mailbox
I love paying rent when tha rents due
I hope ya got tha diamond necklace that I sent to you
cause when I wuz low, you was there for me
ya never left me alone, cause ya cared for me
and I can see ya coming home after work late
ya in tha kitchen trying ta fix us a hot plate
just working with tha scraps you wuz given
and mama made miracles every Thanksgiving
but now tha road got rough, your alone
trying ta raise two bad kids on your own
and there's no way I can pay ya back
but my plan is ta show ya that I understand
you are appreciated.....
Chorus
Laaaaady, don't cha know we luv ya
Sweeeet Laaaady, place no one above ya
Sweeeet Laaaady, don't cha know we luv ya
pour out some liquor and I remenise
cause through tha drama, I can always depend on my mama
and when it seems that i'm hopeless
you say tha words that can get me back in focus
when I wuz sick as a little kid
ta keep me happy theres no limit to tha things ya did
and all my childhood memories
are full of all tha sweet things ya did for me
and even though I act craaaazy
I got ta thank tha Lord that ya maaaade me
There are no words that can express how I feel
Ya never kept a secret, always stayed real
and I appreciate how ya raised me
and all tha extra love that ya gave me
I wish I could take tha pain away
If you can make it through tha night, there's a brighter day
everything'll be alright if ya hold on
it's a struggle
everyday gotta roll on
and there's no way I can pay ya back
but my plan is ta show ya that I understand
you are appreciated.......
Chorus
Laaaaady, don't cha know we luv ya
Sweeeet Laaaady, place no one above ya
Sweeeet Laaaady, don't cha know we luv ya, Sweeeet Laaaady
Laaaady...[fades]...Laaaady
Not trying to change your taste in music but, trying to show you that rap is not just what you might think it is. It speaks to people from a certain area of the country just like country music does, just like rock music does.... It speaks about issues that effect our communities and yeah a lot of this stuff is not cute. Trust me no one who grew up this way wanted it to be this way. We all start out innocent and pretty much a blank slate when we are born, then we slowly become a product of our environment to a certain degree. Some of us get lucky, others make good choices, and still others are not so lucky or make bad choices. Don't hate the messenger for the message. These rap stars did not make this stuff up out of no where.
The real ones whom are not just in it to be famous, or fake the funk this is life and they are going to tell it raw like it is and yes to someone whom did not face these sorts of things day to day it will be quite shocking/disturbing to say the least.
hope that clears some things up and if my 2 cents offends then that is on you. Life is too short for bullshit. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/7/2009 6:13:55 PM | ^The industry plays what the people buy. But the bad stuff definitely does seem to get a lot more exposure.
I don't like Kanye West, but there were a few lines from "Jesus Walks" that summed it up pretty well.
"So here go my single, dog, radio needs this
They say you can rap about anything except for Jesus
That means guns, sex, lies, video tapes
But if I talk about God my record won't get played Huh?"
Not to go off on a tangent here, but while there's a lot of truth to what you've said here, I actually somewhat take issue with the "don't shoot the messenger" statement. The problem is that the messenger is no longer needed. Everybody has heard the message a million times. We know what it is. Continuously promoting it only seems to perpetuate the situation as it currently exists. It's not educating anyone on anything new or doing anything to fix it.
Of all the rappers that take that approach of being messengers of the streets, how many openly reject the negativity of the lifestyle and promote optimism and encourage others to get out of it? Seemingly very few. At least comparatively. Instead, what they offer is a re-hashed narrative of negativity.
Rap isn't the only genre guilty of this either. There are other genres that do the same. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/9/2009 11:57:05 AM | LMAO ... in the jail where I worked, the black dudes (and even my co-workers) would call each other the "N" word all the time. The black inmates would call the Caucasian inmates (even the Hispanics) ""Whitey"/"Honky"". I've never heard it used so much as down in Florida where I lived for a few years.
Are you seriously attempting to use the behavior of criminals in a prison environment as a backdrop for the behavior of a whole culture?
I bet there's a lot of things going on in there that does NOT mirror regular society. You know our environment has a big influence on how we, as people, behave.
There is a very clear us vs them mentality in power in the prison system.
[Historically, African-American's picked up the bad habit of referring to themselves by the derogatory term N***a from their slave masters and never stopped.
To and from each otherthe word does not hold the same meaning as it does when it is coming from the lips of a racist.]
That's about the poorest excuse I could imagine....You're saying that every other race on the planet should have enough gumption to learn not to use a duragitory name for other races but black people just can't help themselves and learn not to call themselves that?
It's not an excuse. It is what it is. If you understood how the self-esteem and internal value system of black people were systematically attacked and compromised during slavery you would understand how it has perpetuated a cycle of self-defeating behaviors up until this day.
I know many people would like to ignore that or say "just get over it" but it's easier said than done.
Sure many of have done it, but many others have not.
And just BTW ... I have seen/heard plenty of Caucasian rappers emulating black rappers ... heard Caucasians playing that rapper crap driving around in their BA-BOOM BA-BOOM pimped out cars. So, yes, whites do appear to use it with no consequence whatsoever.
Really? Name ONE (and not Eminem) and also quote the lyrics.
You know, that statement and description says a lot about where your mind is at.
I'm proud to say I listen to all types of music and don't stereotype any of it, although I probably could. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/9/2009 1:09:47 PM |
LMAO ... in the jail where I worked, the black dudes (and even my co-workers) would call each other the "N" word all the time. Are you seriously attempting to use the behavior of criminals in a prison environment as a backdrop for the behavior of a whole culture? I bet there's a lot of things going on in there that does NOT mirror regular society.
On the flip side of that, I passed out medications to and changed dressings on street thugs as well as white collar criminals. There were gang members and there were mafia and there were prostitutes and there were pimps. There were sex offenders of all kinds who ranged from day care workers to teachers, truckers to doctors.
So if you ask me ... there was a pretty good cross section of our society in there.
I can understand though, that unless a person has witnessed such behavior that it might seem unbelievable.
Just a thought here ... if certain people don't like what other posters write ... there are a number of ways of dealing with it.
**Don't start threads if one is not prepared to see diverse opinions.
**Get a thick skin.
**Just don't read the replies of posters that annoy you.
**Read them and ignore them.
**Continuously single out certain posters' posts, read them and then ridicule them.
And just BTW ... I have seen/heard plenty of Caucasian rappers emulating black rappers ... heard Caucasians playing that rapper crap driving around in their BA-BOOM BA-BOOM pimped out cars. So, yes, whites do appear to use it with no consequence whatsoever. Really? Name ONE (and not Eminem) and also quote the lyrics.
I can't believe someone is asking me to name the "Caucasian" kids in the neighborhood who emulate black rappers as they blast that sh1t from their patios and decks ... or that someone might be asking me to name the "Caucasian" kids in the neighborhood who drive around in their BA-BOOM BA-BOOM pimped out cars. What a hoot? 
Did someone run out of tin foil before the hat was done? Maybe someone needs a few extra layers of tin foil for their hat?
OT ...
Again, such changes to the dictionary are simply not "landmark" or "earth-shattering". I see no need to make such a big deal of it when it appears that blacks are not really trying to curb the use of the word.
If they want to continuously use it ... as in that rapper crap ... then people (both black and white) will get used to using it too and it's bound to be blurted out.
It's just like people using profanity. People who sing it and talk it are going to eventually have a slip up and blurt it out at a very inappropriate time. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/10/2009 6:25:39 PM | Hello, did you READ what YOU wrote
COTTER: And just BTW ... I have seen/heard plenty of Caucasian rappers emulating black rappers ... heard Caucasians playing that rapper crap driving around in their BA-BOOM BA-BOOM pimped out cars. So, yes, whites do appear to use it with no consequence whatsoever.
AMEERA: Really? Name ONE (and not Eminem) and also quote the lyrics.
COTTER: Name one WHAT?
I can't believe someone is asking me to name the "Caucasian" kids in the neighborhood who emulate black rappers as they blast that sh1t from their patios and decks ... or that someone might be asking me to name the "Caucasian" kids in the neighborhood who drive around in their BA-BOOM BA-BOOM pimped out cars. What a hoot?
YOU said you had heard plenty of Caucasian RAPPERS emulating black rappers and I told you to name one rapper you had heard and quote the lyrics (not Eminem). | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/11/2009 12:40:41 PM | A rapper (to me) is ANY person who goes around "chanting that rapper sh1t". I really don't care if it's the kid next door at his patio party or some Hollywood Honcho blasting it on TV or at some stadium concert.
I realize those who "drool" when the Hollywood version appears would argue there is a difference. But for those of us who just want that sh1t to go away ... don't want to be bombarded with it in traffic or as we attempt to sleep or just have a quiet dinner on our patio ... we just don't care ... we don't differentiate about it like that.
The point is, they regularly use the "N" word, they call each other the "N" word, they use it in combination with their suggestions of violence and when they promote sexual abuse of women. They are thrilled when they sell volumes of that crap and want everyone to listen to it, but want to take issue with people using the "N" word?
If you make a living blasting that kind of sh1t out there, then don't be surprised if your followers are out there blurting the word too. Anyone who promotes that kind of stuff (buys that sh1t and listens to it) really needs to take a step back when protesting the regular use of the word as well.
OT ...
Again, such changes to the dictionary are simply not "landmark" or "earth-shattering". I see no need to make such a big deal of it when it appears that blacks are not really trying to curb the use of the word.
Instead of "changing" the definition, why not add a note that the use of it has changed? | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/11/2009 2:19:52 PM |
A rapper (to me) is ANY person who goes around "chanting that rapper sh1t".
Oh this is rich, on a thread about a change to a word in a dictionary (which you keep saying over and over again is nooooo big deal, you're confessing that you've created your own personal definition for the word rapper!!!!!
That is soooooo funny!!!!!!
That's why it's no big deal -- you have your own personal definitions for words.
So you should perfectly understand how AFrican-Americans have their own special definition for the N-word.
IMO, that's why this is important. We need dictionaries. Because otherwise people will start creating their own personal definitions to words and try to change it whenever the conversation and the mood suits them.
At least with a dictionary we have a consensus and there's some mutual understanding between everyone about what the hell we're all talking about!!!!
I see no need to make such a big deal of it when it appears that blacks are not really trying to curb the use of the word.
Sweetie, at this point there's only ONE person making a big deal out of it. I don't think you can speak for all "blacks" and last I heard, the correct term is African-American or at least black people
Instead of "changing" the definition, why not add a note that the use of it has changed?
They didn't completely change the definition they expanded on it and corrected it so that it reflects what it has really meant in America for centuries.
So that when some racist says, I can call you a N***A, hell you guys call each other it allllll the time; it means buddy and friend, right? Homegirl, it's documented and substantiated that no, that's NOT how it was originally used and that there is absolutely grounds for any African-American to suspect that s/he is being degraded and insulted.
Say for instance if my racist boss started calling me "N****A but claimed she was just being my friend. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/14/2009 8:53:46 AM | I am fully in support of acknowledging the N-word as a racial slur. It's a Latin word. We don't speak Latin. We don't use Latin at all, except for expressions adopted due to historical use, such as medical terms, legal terms like "Habeus Corpus", and philosophical fallacies like "Ad Hominem". So any Latin word like the N-word, only has historical connotations, and the N-word has historical connotations of being a racial slur.
However, many people who grew up thinking racist insults are OK, and still think they are OK, are going to find that offensive, because it is admitting that to use those words, is a racist slur, and that means that when they use those words, they are being racist, and committing a slur against millions of people. No-one likes to be called a racist, even if they are one.
So I don't think that the situation is going to change anytime soon, unless we address the problem of why certain groups feel that it is OK to be discriminatory in the first place, purely on a basis of tribal instinct, that "my tribe is better than yours", and "my tribe should be able to treat your tribe anyway we feel like, because your tribe is not as good as ours." | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/14/2009 9:27:42 AM |
So, beginning with the next edition, the word will no longer
be synonymous with African-Americans. It shall be duly noted that
it's a racial slur ... I've always felt that it is that ... a racial slur.
... and not what African-American see themselves as. If African-Americans don't see themselves as that, then why do they call each other that?
Oh ... I see ... it's a double standard ... again.
So what's new? | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/14/2009 5:19:21 PM |
If African-Americans don't see themselves as that, then why do they call each other that? It's like b*tch for women. IMHO, women re-appropriated "b*tch" as well. If white women can do it, why can't African Americans?
Oh ... I see ... it's a double standard ... again.
So what's new? | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/14/2009 9:28:19 PM |
It's like b*tch for women. IMHO, women re-appropriated "b*tch" as well. If white women can do it, why can't African Americans? Is "b1tch" supposed to be some sort of racial slur like the "N" word? African American women call each other "b1tch" all the time. Well at least they do here in the US.
What does "b1tch" have to do with the "N" word? | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/14/2009 11:41:38 PM | you know when I first came to Canada back in the 60's
I used to be called the "N" word,....all the time,....
of course back then,....it also stood for Nazi,....
go figure eh? | |
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Posted: 6/29/2009 2:09:23 PM | Say for instance if my racist boss started calling me "N****A but claimed she was just being my friend.
The boss just got through listening to some rapper using the word and thought it was okay? Ehem..let us remember that 1) Some African Americans also refer to their white friends as "n*ggas" (I can attest to the fact personally) and 2)Said friend thought nothing amiss by doing so. One would have to be a fool to disagree that, in general, a certain amount of hypocrisy is at work in this matter. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/30/2009 7:29:52 AM | FlyGuy said it best back in Msg. 25:
The point is that words have meaning. To complicate matters, words have meaning that evolves over time. The dictionary is sometimes slow to acknowledge this evolution in meaning. So, it is noteworthy sometimes to announce when the dictionary has finally caught up, as in this racially charged example.
So, it's okay if blacks use racial slurs to describe anyone who is not black, but the reverse is never okay ... right?
Considering the imbalance between the races that has existed in history, this very slight imbalance tipping the other way is a very minor issue, IMO. For the record, I haven't heard the word "honky" except on TV. Double standards abound in society, though, and some are much more accepted than others-- women can wear men's jeans just fine, but have you seen a man wear women's jeans? I sure haven't.
And "rapper crap"? It is too bad that you do not choose to express yourself without getting condescending cultural digs in. If not music, perhaps you could call it "rhythmic poetry" instead of "crap."
It's always nice to read an intelligent, well thought out response instead of the usual knee jerk reactions. | |
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/30/2009 1:45:49 PM | I used to be called the "N" word,....all the time,....
of course back then,....it also stood for Nazi,....
We have one of those here too!
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 6/30/2009 6:53:53 PM | Ads and dictionaries are amazing sources to look into when we want to see a reflection of the prejudices and social organization (who's got the power, who's the underdog) of any given time.
The thing is, we don't get to see many old commercials, unless we actively search for them. Dictionaries, on the other hand, are VERY slow to change. Most of the time, when a publishing house releases a "new edition" of a dictionary, all they did was to add a bunch of new words (mostly from the realm of computers, technology etc.) and to go very quickly over a few scandalously outdated definitions randomly picked up by some perfectionist lexicographer that wasn't even being paid to look for this kind of stuff. Paying a team to go over the whole dictionary and rewrite everything that needs rewriting costs way too much money. As long as they can get away with it, publishers won't do it.
The result is that, when we browse through a dictionary, we're seeing in the same page definitions that might have been written with decades of distance from each other. If we look hard enough, we'll certainly find definitions (and sentences used as examples) that are extremely racist, sexist and so on - because they're pictures of a mindset that was mainstream when that definition was written.
It's GREAT, then (and incredible that it took so long!), that they'll update at least some of these old, senile, racist definitions. Thanks for the good news, Ameerra!
Oh, and by the way, here in Edmonton (Canada) we just had a new "Poet Laureate" chosen by the city to replace the previous poet appointed for the position. The previous occupant was a 74-year-old white university professor. His successor is a 23-year-old black boy called "Cadence Weapon". What kind of poet is he? A rapper! (Go Edmonton!)
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| NAACP Wins Dictionary Battle
Posted: 7/1/2009 12:40:57 PM | Oh, and by the way, here in Edmonton (Canada) we just had a new "Poet Laureate" chosen by the city to replace the previous poet appointed for the position. The previous occupant was a 74-year-old white university professor. His successor is a 23-year-old black boy called "Cadence Weapon". What kind of poet is he? A rapper! (Go Edmonton!)
Oooooo, that is so cool!  | |
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