| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/5/2009 7:11:10 PM | A well-written police report is essential to a conviction, and to be a police officer only requires a GED. Without articulating the elements of a crime, the perpetrator will go free. One of my claims to fame is that most of my suspects take the plea rather than go to court because I leave no room to squirm.
With the gentlemen on the job that I have a good rapport with, I have a good rapport. I spoke candidly with one of my coworkers this morning, with whom I could easily work with on a car together, partners every day. I am not very good at executing a tackle but I write good reports. He can execute a tackle and would rather have me write the report.
If someone cannot write, then the defense attorney gets paid to let the criminal walk free. My opinion is that I just hope that none of the defense attorney's family members are the criminal's next victim.
I recall being in the back of the house where a defense attorney was jumping for glee at getting her high profile murder defendant off with a light sentence, and I was truly disgusted. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/5/2009 7:49:54 PM |
A well-written police report is essential to a conviction, and to be a police officer only requires a GED. This is certainly not true everywhere, and thankfully not so in my neck of the woods. Goodness.
If someone cannot write, then the defense attorney gets paid to let the criminal walk free. This is a very uneducated statement. The defense attorney gets paid to represent the defendent. He does not make decisions about who "walks free" and he certainly doesn't have the power to "let" anyone go. It is a shame that a "police officer" has such a misunderstanding of the system that she would misrepresent the legal system in his way and that she would evidently rather live in a country where the government can incarcerate someone without having to provide a healthy level of proof. Criminal defense is not about the guy you arrested and it's not about taking advantage of illiterate cops who produce poorly written reports. It is about leveling the playing field so that the government can only incarcerate a citizen after proving guilt. I don't imagine any of us want to live in a place where the government would have the power to incarcerate without that safeguard in place. My guess is that you would want adequate counsel if you were arrested, no? Or are you one of those police officers who believes that there are not any innocent people sitting in jail? Whether one has a GED or PhD, a functioning adult should be able to understand why it is important for the gov't not have cart blanche power to incarcerate/punish. Additionally, the police report is not the only piece of evidence in play. It is shocking that you would reduce it down to 1) the literacy of the police officer and 2) the nerve of a lawyer to represent a defendent.
My opinion is that I just hope that none of the defense attorney's family members are the criminal's next victim. That's not an opinion, that's a passive agressive statement meant to associate criminal defense with the crime itself. Shame on you.
I recall being in the back of the house where a defense attorney was jumping for glee at getting her high profile murder defendant off with a light sentence, and I was truly disgusted. I would have been disgusted too. But you should know better than to make sweeping generalizations based on an anecdote. You should also know enough about the human condition to realize that there are all sorts of people in all sorts of jobs. Not every police officer reflects well on her position either. (cough.) I certainly don't make sweeping generalizations about cops based on this thread.
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/5/2009 8:49:20 PM | You did not disclose, while you were free to criticize me: Are you a criminal defense attorney?
In Alan Dershowitz's "Best Defense" ten tenets of criminal law included that most defendendants are in fact guitly and their lawyers KNOW they are guilty. Did you miss that part of law school? | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/6/2009 1:02:25 AM |
Asking me if I happened to look like the guy and was targeted instead is a bit of a stretch. Would I want to be lynched? No....well... I might enjoy a good tangle or two but.. well.. that's a whole different subject.
Why is that a stretch ? It's not even remotely a stretch. All you need is to have somebody who looks like you commit a crime . Think you don't share similar facial characteristics with at least a million other men around the world ?
It's not like they just randomly chose someone that looked like the perp. Now, it is true that he was just a "person of interest".. but he was one that had a habit of committing crimes just like the one the police wanted to find him for.
Yes they did pretty much choose him at random. Nobody tried to verify his identity until the cops showed up. That's exactly what they didn't do. One of them saw a picture and said "Hey ! That's the guy that raped a little girl !". Nobody actually bothered to stop and THINK "How do I know that ?"
Secondly , you're arguing that he had a bad habit of committing crimes but this is completely illogical if you're trying to incorporate it into your defense of the mob. The mob didn't know ANYTHING about him and neither did you until you read about it after the fact. It's like backing over somebody with your car and then being thankful when it turns out he was a drug dealer. You didn't know that when you backed over him. This is the same reason that evidence in court cases can't be presented if it was obtained improperly. Cops can't just stop any old person on the street and demand they empty their pockets (even if yes , they do often do just this) The point is that if they didn't have a reason to stop you , it doesn't matter if you're carrying two kilos of crack and a hand-grenade...they've got no evidence and the cops have no case. In fact, you could turn around and sue THEM.
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/6/2009 7:53:56 AM | As horrific as this example is, it must be remembered that vigilante justice is not the answer. Witness the case of lawyer Jonathon Edington in Connecticut - he broke into the home of a next-door neighbour and fatally stabbed him after his wife told him that his 2-year-old daughter had been molested by the neighbour.
As it turned out, the victim, Barry James, did not assault the child, and outside of a conviction for DUI, had no criminal record. He had no pornographic material in his house, and zero history of sexual assault. In short, he was not a child molester. A specially trained team used in child molestation cases conducted a thorough forensic interview of the child. Their report: there was absolutely no evidence that this child had been molested by anyone.
I would also be enraged beyond belief if something happened to a child. But we must not ignore due process. But aside from the fact that the lawyer killed an innocent man, he has destroyed his own future and that of his family by losing his shit. This is why you just don't kill somebody based on the sayings of a child. At the end of his trial, Edington, rather than express the remorse his lawyer claimed he felt, he was heard to remark that he had done the right thing - a tragedy without remorse.
Both Edington and his wife, who created this delusional story, are being sued for $5,000,000 for wrongful death, by the family of Barry James. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/6/2009 8:01:52 AM | Sadly, vigilante justice sometimes is the answer when the criminal justice system fails the victims and the victims' families.
It is really a matter of finding the right offender and saving the criminal justice system a lot of dollars | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/6/2009 8:07:05 AM | The criminal justice system does indeed fail occasionally. But most of the time it does not. If it did, you would have lost faith in it a long time ago, and you'd be working in parking enforcement.
And, I seriously hope that you do not use your gun on people just because they are a$$holes. That in itself is simply not justification. Potentially satisfying yes, but the opposite of justice really.........and it won't save a lot of dollars if you end up on the receiving end of a lawsuit.
Be well...... | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/6/2009 8:15:25 AM | I have never used my gun, nor my taser. The last time I used my pepper spray was when a woman was high on wet and tried to throw me off of a porch.
I agree with you. I have all of these tools that they attach to my belt, but I very rarely have to use them! | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/6/2009 8:59:11 AM |
Sadly, vigilante justice sometimes is the answer when the criminal justice system fails the victims and the victims' families.
All I can say is "WOW". For a cop to advocate vigilante justice is dumbfounding to me.
Didn't you take an oath to uphold the law?
Be careful what you wish for.... | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/6/2009 9:38:36 AM | ^^^ Why not a cop to be in support of vigilante justice ... cops are human. In fact, for what some officers witness and know of, I'm pretty sure there may be quite a few out there who would be all for it ... just not as many would dare vocalize it.
One of the most frustrating parts I can imagine about being a cop is going through the investigations and arrests ... only to watch those people "walk" when it goes to court... | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/6/2009 9:45:00 AM |
Why not a cop to be in support of vigilante justice...
Get fricking serious.
Vigilantism is the opposite of what our police force takes an oath to do.
Beating someone to death, because you thought he was 'the one', screams for justice--not only for the child in question, but for a country where there are those who champion this kind of behavior against an alleged suspect--INSIDE our police force.
Why not a cop in support of vigilantism?
Because our justice system only works as well as those who uphold its laws. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/6/2009 9:53:13 AM | Actually, I am "fricking serious".
Do you think police officers cannot be aware of, and frustrated by the lack of "justice" in the system? Where do you think a portion of police brutality may stem from?
In this particular case though, the biggest question is if they attacked an innocent or guilty man. Is there any updates? | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/6/2009 10:23:22 AM | Do you think police officers cannot be aware of, and frustrated by the lack of "justice" in the system? Where do you think a portion of police brutality may stem from?
Bet you don't see the irony of that statement.
Know why it's called 'brutality'?
Know why it's such a big deal when a police officer commits 'police brutality'?
OF COURSE, police officers are aware of the lack of justice--and, OF COURSE they are frustrated by it--Joe Citizen feels the same way,(unless Joe is committing crimes).
Being frustrated by the system is NO excuse for taking the law into one's hands--regardless of your position in society--especially when one has taken an oath to uphold the laws of that society.
The 'biggest question' is not whether or not they 'got the right man', but that a gang of citizens took it upon themselves to kill another human being. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/8/2009 5:33:36 AM | UPDATE - the two original people who saw and chased the suspect were given the reward on Saturday (over $10,000) by the FOP. The DA's office said that no one involved in capturing the suspect would be charged.
It appears that the day of the capture (last Tuesday), the police had released the name and a photograph of the suspect; last Monday when it was just the artist's sketch, ANOTHER man was beaten and turned in to police - he appeared on the news after the report on the ceremony honoring the two men who beat the "real" suspect.
Very mixed messages around here! | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/8/2009 6:48:41 AM | | A suspect is a suspect...there are no Real or Un-real suspects...The man(suspect) beaten and held until police arived has not be cleared by the police, and the accused(suspect) sitting in jail is yet to be tried and convicted. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/8/2009 7:38:54 AM |
Sadly, vigilante justice sometimes is the answer when the criminal justice system fails the victims and the victims' families.
Wow. Remind me to never visit Cleveland Ohio. Not only does their baseball team have an extremely derogatory name, but apparently, the cops are crooked. I unfortunately will not say how I truly feel about the poster who made this statement because it is against the terms of use. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/8/2009 12:14:43 PM |
It appears that the day of the capture (last Tuesday), the police had released the name and a photograph of the suspect; last Monday when it was just the artist's sketch, ANOTHER man was beaten and turned in to police - he appeared on the news after the report on the ceremony honoring the two men who beat the "real" suspect.
Got a link ?
If that's true , that's exactly why vigilante justice is something to be denounced , not applauded. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/8/2009 12:55:41 PM | http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6851290
By Dann CuellarCENTER CITY - June 5, 2009 (WPVI) -- Street justice sometimes gets it right, and sometimes gets it wrong.
The case of 26-year-old Michael Zenquis is a disturbing reminder of what can happen when the police search for a child rapist fuels a potent intoxicant of street justice and an innocent victim is caught in its web.
"He calls me by my nickname, he says 'Romeo, we need to speak to you, we need to talk to you for a second, I got something to show you,'" Zenquis said.
Michael says it was Monday afternoon and he was walking home at Ontario and Argyle Streets when he was suddenly attacked by 5 or 6 people, some of whom he knew from the neighborhood.
"Out of nowhere, I just start getting hit with sticks; I get hit with a baseball bat on my back. I was just getting stomped, I was just getting beat up for at least 45 seconds before I knew what was going on," Zenquis said.
It wasn't until then that he knew why he was being pummeled when someone yelled, 'You raped that little girl!.'
"I kept yelling, I'm innocent, I didn't do anything, I don't know what's going on," Zenquis said. "They were just calling me, 'Rapist! You deserve to die!' They were saying, 'Kill him, kill him!', and it was just too much."
Five days since the attack, Zenquis is still marred with the bruises left from the vicious and brutal attack, on his eye where he was hit with a stick, on his back where he was hit with a baseball bat, his left shoulder, and his left foot which was bandaged up tonight.
"It still hurts a lot; I'm still going through a lot of pain here," Zenquis said.
Police officers took him to the hospital and then the special victims unit, where detectives realized he was not the guy they were looking for and let him go. He says he feels terrible for the little girl that was raped and understands the anger people felt, but:
"They shouldn't have took the law into their own hands, ok? Because look, they got the wrong guy. What if they would have killed me? Then what?" Zenquis said.
Further, he believes after he was beat up, police had a responsibility to warn the public not to take matters into their own hands.
"Me being beat up like that, they should have done something about it, because I was on the ground, I was bleeding and I was hurt. I think the police should have done something about it cause they knew I was beat up," Zenquis said.
After being prompted by his family, Zenquis says he went to East Detectives on Wednesday and identified two of his assailants from a photo lineup. He wants to press charges not just because of what happened to him, but for the next person who could be mistaken for a vicious criminal. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/8/2009 1:03:34 PM |
He wants to press charges not just because of what happened to him, but for the next person who could be mistaken for a vicious criminal. And also for the next person (criminal or not) who is attacked by vicious criminals, as he was.
The hypocrisy of a vigilante really is astounding. Heck, if you're going to seek revenge, then just do it and take your lumps for it. But don't pretend you are any better than the person you attack, because when it comes down to it, vigilantes are just common criminals with superiority complexes. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/9/2009 11:24:49 AM | There is a sense of frustration in America with these criminals/attorneys making plea deals. It's not about meeting out justice to those convicted of felony crimes, but clearing the docket for another plea deal.
Another crime is committed with those who bargain with the prosecutor to receive a lesser punishment. Plea bargaining may avert the heavy cost of trial and clear another case for the prosecutors only to imprint in the mind of a thug "yo dawg bust your game, you can always make a deal".
And for those of you who think harsher penalties would not eliminate much of the crime here in America, I challenge you to travel to Saudi Arabia. I spent 14 months in that barren waste land.
In the 14 months I lived there, there was only 1 crime committed, think of that, only one! With an estimated population of 27 million, that bit of information totally disproves the fallacy that stronger penalties for crime does not dissuade crime. It does.
But of course there's no money, sail boat, and another house in the Hamptons in that type of justice system.
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/9/2009 7:27:39 PM | Rapists in general deserve do die and should be killed.
Of course, with a fair trial.
soisaid mentioned that he should first pay for his crime in jail before he dies.
I'd rather just see him dead. Since like you said, "A lot of rapists end up back on the streets." They won't if they are put to death. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/9/2009 9:17:18 PM | And for those of you who think harsher penalties would not eliminate much of the crime here in America, I challenge you to travel to Saudi Arabia. I spent 14 months in that barren waste land.
In the 14 months I lived there, there was only 1 crime committed, think of that, only one! With an estimated population of 27 million, that bit of information totally disproves the fallacy that stronger penalties for crime does not dissuade crime. It does. I lived in the Middle East for two years. While harsher punishment does have something to do with lower crime, I'll agree to that, some of these countries almost amount to police states, which is the case for Saudi. It is also very much the case that in Saudi and other Middle Eastern states, that fundamentalist religious values have an extremely powerful impact on people's behavior. So, I essentially disagree with your post as it is not only harsher punishment that causes less crime in such countries.
I would prefer to live in the West and enjoy it's freedoms, not in a theocratic police state that suppresses most individualism, though it means dealing with the ongoing concern over crime. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/9/2009 10:24:09 PM | | The hypocricsy of a criminal defense attorney that knows their client is guilty but still takes pleasure in defending that person is also astounding! Whoo-hoo! You go, and keep them out ther on the streets, while you keep collecting your paychecks, while another innocent victim suffers as the fruit of your proud labors. | |
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| Child rapist - beaten by neighbors
Posted: 6/9/2009 11:07:25 PM | Understanding how the justice system works is the first step in assigning blame.
A defense attorney is charged with providing the best defense possible. The burden of proof lies with the prosecutor. 'Beyond a reasonable doubt' is key, here.
Who makes the decision as to whether or not a defendent is guilty? It isn't the defense attorney, so being snotty only makes a person look ignorant about the system. | |
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