| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/5/2009 10:43:17 AM | RE Msg: 25 by Gwendolyn2009: I don't want to put another long response to your response. I consider it reasonable to put a single post as an aside in a thread, but not to drag the thread into an argument that has nothing to do with the thread.
All I was doing was attempting to update you. I do the same with many posters, even mods/ex-mods like themadfiddler. Sometimes they already know what I wrote, sometimes they don't. I do that to help them, and to help others, because if they are misinforming people, such as through posts, then those others are often confused and misunderstand the world as a result, not to mention their confusion.
In future, I will avoid attempting to increase your information in your benefit. I knew a lot of people who expressed themselves like you. In the end, I had to distance myself from them, because they would ask me for help, and I would, to the best of my ability, and then they made my life hell because of the help I gave them, and this caused me so many problems, that to keep my sanity, I had to keep my distance. So I don't help those types of people anymore. But I do give people the benefit of the doubt to prove they are that way, and not assume so. Your post has established that for me, and so, I see no point in helping you in any fashion.
If you want help, you can ask, but unless you're in dire straits, don't expect help from me. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/5/2009 12:05:13 PM | "Truth" like honesty and empathy is a subjective term.
Things that were thought as "true" even 50 years ago (a woman's place being in the home,the inferiority of minorities,etc) have been proven to be false.
Things believed to be "true" now, will likely been seen as quaint delusion by future generations.
IMHO, there's no real "truth."
Only perception... | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/5/2009 4:57:56 PM | The more specific we become on any subject the fewer of us agree.
Is this a truth or just an opinion? | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/5/2009 5:15:02 PM | | I'm sure that there were people out there that believed those things to be true, but that didn't *make* them true, did it? If the actual truth was that woman's "place" was in the kitchen and that minorities were not inferior, then wouldn't that have always been the truth? A more complete idea regarding these topics might be that in the 1950's, society was structured to encourage women to stay at home. Minorities, given the same opportunities and education, can be in every way be equivalent to the more common race of the time. These would be "real" truths, wouldn't they? | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/5/2009 5:17:47 PM | "The more specific we become on any subject the fewer of us agree.
Is this a truth or just an opinion?"
I think it's too broad to be considered true in all cases, so I'd call it an opinion based on common patterns. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/7/2009 12:37:38 AM | the Truth does not change.
it might be that very few of us know the Truth. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/7/2009 12:56:59 AM |
Is ketchup a vegetable? No.
Congress was wrong because a tomato is a fruit and in ketchup it's concentrated and also has potent anti cancer properties (in the skin) so unless it is the crap kind with tons of sugar and starch filler it's actually very good for you.
Back on topic...
OP and a theist - I entirely agree with you - absolutely.
I don't quite know what to think of people who think truth is opinion. Seems lacking in common sense. Do humans really believe they are so important that reality does not exist unless they can perceive it and affirm it??? I guess they do. Amazing. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/7/2009 5:41:59 AM | Many people confuse “Truth” with “Fact”.
“Fact” is something – you cannot change. “Truth”- on the other hand – can be distorted and made to look like a real deal. “Truth” can be something that is widely accepted BUT not necessarily the real deal. We have multiple religions in this world and all of them can’t be the fact. Some may be based on bona fide truth (meaning – made, done, presented, spread or established in good faith without real intention of fraud or deception BUT the fact remains that they have been altered through the process of their respective evolution. So, regardless of any of them being based on the fact - almost all of them is now dealing with distorted truth IMO. 
The “truth” is – Bush won the election in 2000. But the “fact” regarding who actually should have won – lies with the actual count of the votes – that never happened due to Supreme Court’s decision to block the recount. So, the fact was never revealed and we most likely lived with a distorted truth.
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/7/2009 8:12:29 AM | Truth is the mean average of people's perception.
Let's say you are standing over there (100 feet away) and I'm standing here. We both see the same event happen (doesn't matter what). We are asked to retell what we saw happen. We'd both probably tell a different version. Who is telling the truth? We are both telling the truth. You told what you saw and I told what I saw. How can we both be telling the truth if what we said was different (though similar)? The truth is something between what you saw and what i saw.  | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/7/2009 8:06:39 PM | | I agree , I find it hard to think of truth as something that is an abstract concept of subjectivity. I feel that truth is steadast in whatever it reveals and that the only subjectivity involved is how people interpret or what that truth means to them. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/7/2009 10:12:15 PM |
How can we both be telling the truth if what we said was different (though similar)? The truth is something between what you saw and what i saw. Both would be telling the truth if they modified it with a "These things are what I perceived happening at the time". Neither would be telling the whole truth if they said "this is precisely what happened". | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 6/8/2009 3:42:43 AM | its their premature thoughts on the subject, maybe, but not the truth.
we shouldnt bend the truth to suit the situation, or to not hurt somebodys feelings.
they are just opinions, untill proven to be true. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/13/2009 4:19:40 AM | | "Truth, as well as beauty, is in the eye of the beholder." This is taken for Aljazeera English news network. Most truths, even those we think are facts, are true beliefs. Certainly, empirical evidence reinforces beliefs and makes them facts in our eyes, but those 'facts' have been known to change. Scientific facts are sometimes as much as we know scientifically now, what is supported by empirical evidence, but when new evidence is found or discovered, that fact can change. Justified true beliefs are what we depend on and consider facts; they are justified by empirical evidence as well as reasoning and logic. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/13/2009 4:54:56 AM | truth sometimes (well..pretty much ALWAYS) gets distorted by one's perception of so called facts. Truth is always distorted by one's perception.
Someone has mentioned objective truth. This refers to what can be verified or supported by empirical evidence, essentially the natural sciences and math. Every other area of truth is subjective and dependent on observation, perception, interpretation, emotion, and logic. The Holocaust happened. That's an historical truth. Isn't it? We have empirical evidence to support the assertion it is true. We have witness statements to support it's truth. The physical, empirical evidence can be intrepreted in various ways. The witness statements can be distored by individual perceptions, memories, and emotions. Truth is not simple; it's complicated. There are scientific and mathematical truths that are strongly supported by empirical and logical evidence; all other truths are truly objective and often determined by a concensus of a culture as to validity. At the same time, different cultures have different truths, which are based on a combination of empirical evidence, logic, reasoning, observation, perception, & emotion. One country may have a different truth about an historical event than another. It is said that the victor writes history. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/13/2009 5:33:44 AM | | correction: I meant "All other truths are truly SUBJECTIVE and often determined by concensus of a culture as to validity." | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/13/2009 7:18:26 AM | Truth is Every Word that Proceeds out of The Mouth of God Is that the truth?
Truth is what you believe. Given curved space, what shape is the earth? | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/13/2009 9:36:00 AM | its their premature thoughts on the subject, maybe, but not the truth.
we shouldnt bend the truth to suit the situation, or to not hurt somebodys feelings.
they are just opinions, untill proven to be true.
That's the problem. I've seen the most complicated subjects broken down to a few words, that upon first viewing I assumed the person was uneducated in their opinion, and premature. Because I break down a concept into its intricacies, I somehow assumed I had a better handle. This is not true. Which leads me to believe people tend to judge the person, not what they are saying. It isn't that they are premature, as they could very well embrace the concept more readily than you. Rather they express it differently in an existence in which the are infinite ways to do so.
Since personal experiences, are private and ineffable, another person's perspective can only be known by analogy. Philosophers try to build knowledge on more than an inference or analogy. Science and spirituality should go hand in hand. know the makeup of the well formed group of atoms, but recognize that that well formed mass of cells is your beautiful curvy wife, and appreciate this. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/13/2009 11:38:17 AM | | Truth is an abstract, subjective idea. The only thing that matters is love. LOVE, man, LOVE. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/13/2009 1:10:49 PM | ^^Yes.
Truth about what? Depends what question you're asking about. Some things can be stated more truly than others, but those truths tend to be really, really long. Language is not a very good carrier for truth, I find that poetry is what comes closest to it. Truth must be felt, more of a direction, something to strive for. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/13/2009 1:26:19 PM | | Well, since the truth is constantly being stretched and twisted by certain people to suit certain people each for their own purposes; might we truthfully say there's really no such thing as absolute truth? | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/13/2009 2:12:22 PM | | Whom was it that said, "I think, therefore I am."? I think it was Descartes. Hence, the only thing we can be sure of is that we're having a conscious moment. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/13/2009 2:34:18 PM | knowledge that is subject to change, [most of mans ''wisdom"] is NOT truth.
truth is rare.
go find it, if you think its worth the bother. | |
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/13/2009 3:26:59 PM | I think that "truth" as a noun is an empty concept. Propositions can be "true" or "false", "possible", "necessary" and the like. A proposition has one of these attributes independent of our knowledge of the "truth value" (unless we define what constitutes "true" in a situation).
On the other hand, there's of course John Keats,
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty, — that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."
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| Thoughts on truth
Posted: 9/16/2009 5:29:26 PM | | Truth will be found within me. .It will change. To say it won't, is to harness my mind. I wouldn't like that very much. | |
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