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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/6/2009 11:42:09 AM | Maybe we should be depressed.
We have domesticated ourselves into little pens. With our technology we should be free to develop ourselves as individuals and yet we are stressed, spending most of our waking time doing something that we might not even enjoy just so that we can get enough tokens (money) to eat food that might not be good for us.
We are burning the house we live in (environment...consumerism) while trying to rip off and feed off of our brothers and sisters (all the people around us...capitalism)... there is a deep disconect with our instincts. Human beings are adaptable, yes, more than any other species on earth, but there might be limits on this.
We watch people on TV, or sit at our computers instead of going out and meeting real live humans. Our children litterally are raised by machines, spending hours everyday in front of the screen.
We feel that something is wrong, our genetic memory is screaming for the tribe, the family, the deep personal connection with 100 people, the physical rigours of foraging, hunting, fighting, playing.
It used to take a village to raise a child, now it takes an overworked mom, an underpaid teacher, a well indoctrinated (and self-medicated) psychiatrist and some ritalin.
Yes, we should be depressed, until we figure it out for ourselves. After that we can realize a bit of our human creative genius and move into empowerment. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/6/2009 12:09:42 PM | ^^^ http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/lolcats-funny-pictures-surprise-cannibalism.jpg
Surprise!
Proceed with caution.
Lots of people drop out,
and engage in their own special way.
Some of them are called,
urban nomads...
""Humans have always migrated and travelled, without necessarily living nomadic lives. The nomadism now emerging is different from, and involves much more than, merely making journeys. A modern nomad is as likely to be a teenager in Oslo, Tokyo or suburban America as a jet-setting chief executive. He or she may never have left his or her city, stepped into an aeroplane or changed address. Indeed, how far he moves is completely irrelevant. Even if an urban nomad confines himself to a small perimeter, he nonetheless has a new and surprisingly different relationship to time, to place and to other people. “Permanent connectivity, not motion, is the critical thing,” says Manuel Castells, a sociologist at the Annenberg School for Communication, a part of the University of Southern California, Los Angeles."
http://urban-farmer.blogspot.com/2008/04/urban-nomadism.html
I met one on Amtrak once. He ran a very successful internet business from his laptop.
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/6/2009 5:18:16 PM | | hi... I strongly believe that drugs are never better than sound nutrition and rightful living habits... drugs may do a few things to help an immediate issue but they usually come with a host of dangerous side effects ... long-term use of these drugs can often cause more serious ailments to the user... I believe adult onset schizophrenia fits into that range..... on a spiritual level, I understand the need to be alert and clear thinking and to have control over the mind... these types of drugs, like any other mind altering drug, open small windows that could allow for more irrational thinking errors.... the work that is being done with nutrition, exercise and relaxation is so impressive that I believe that long term use of antidepressants only benefits the drug companies and their pushers.... warmly Mona | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/7/2009 6:42:59 PM |
hi... I strongly believe that drugs are never better than sound nutrition and rightful living habits...
When the problem is caused by poor nutrition and unhealthy living, absolutely. Unfortunatly, depression is caused by neither.
I believe adult onset schizophrenia fits into that range.....
People go on meds BECUASE they have schizophrenia, not the reverse.
these types of drugs, like any other mind altering drug, open small windows that could allow for more irrational thinking errors....
These drugs are prescribed in an attempt to fix the "irrational thinking" that already exists, not the reverse.
the work that is being done with nutrition, exercise and relaxation is so impressive .....
Nutrition, exercise and relaxation are not snail-oil cures for whatever ails you.
.... I believe that long term use of antidepressants only benefits the drug companies and their pushers...
a few extra push-ups, and a salad for dinner, will not correct the neuro-chemical imbalances that cause depression. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/9/2009 6:19:26 AM | Wow... so if I exercise enough, eat right and live right, my three kidneys (yes, three, it's a birth defect I must have caused with my weak will and the poor choices I made before I was born) with their three dysfunctional adrenal glands and my messed up pituitary gland will function exactly as they should and my depression will be cured??
Interesting.
I'll let my endocrinologist know that the experts here have figured it all out, so I'll no longer be needing his services. Since so many of you know exactly how everyone exercises, eats and lives, I don't know why I didn't just check here first.
Silly me. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/9/2009 9:16:03 AM | God you guys... learn how to read... there are a lot of qualifying words around the issue of 'exercise helping depression'. Exercise will help everyone at least a little but it won't 'cure' all depressions.
Geez depressed people don't know how to read. (just kicking you while you're down... I'm so mean today) | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/9/2009 9:21:44 AM | | As for antidepressants... well if it is going to stop you from commiting suicide by all means... use the pills... but again... look for long term solutions (lifestyle changes). It is quite possible however that if your depression is triggered biologically that you will be on medication for a long time. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/9/2009 11:12:52 AM | funcuz,
If you think that the everybody with a case of depression can just sing a happy song and everything will be alright then you don't know the first thing about the illness.
It's not about singing happy songs. I think people are idiots who think that depression's as subtle as a stubbed toe or just feeling a little bummed. I definitely don't have that point of view, BUT...
... you can't ignore that MANY people just don't need it, despite them having real depression. Why do so many these days? Pure genetics? Don't buy that for a second... our genetics didn't just change so rapidly...
Duke Univ. did a study, took people viable for anti-depressants, and put some people on intense exercise regimens, and put some people on popular anti-depressant drugs. Guess what happened? The intense exercise regiments were at least as good as the anti-depressants.
Don't get me wrong, anti-depressant drugs I'm sure can get someone going out of a rut if done properly and it meets their criteria... and it can fail, too, or get people hooked.
Depression isn't a "minor" thing, but neither is a decent diet and exercise regimens, either, yet people call that "minor". WTF? | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/9/2009 10:52:32 PM | ^You're absolutely right and that's the point I was circuitously making.
There's a difference between people who take these drugs and people who actually need them. That's unfortunate. The issue and the part that gets me so steamed about people offering nutrition and exercise advice is that those people don't realize there is a distinction that needs to be made.
Imagine it like this :
Your mother has cancer. She goes on the internet and comes across some message board like this one . Some guy on the boards says "I had a lump under my arm once. Felt nasty. Did I go to the doctore ? Pfffttt...just a bunch of drug pushers ! No no...what you really need is some dill weed and garlic. That'll get rid of any tumours you might have. Here's a study proving it .None of that terrible chemotherapy !"
So that's what your mom does. Instead of getting proper treatment , she eats nothing but dill weed and garlic for the next six months. What was once treatable now becomes lethal and she dies.
And the study ? Was it a lie ? Maybe but probably not. It was simply misinterpreted by a non-professional who never actually had cancer himself. He thought he did but he was wrong. Maybe he even had a doctor suggest his lump might be cancerous but since no tests were ever undertaken , no firm diagnosis was ever made.
So basically , some ***hole on the internet convinced your mom to let herself die slowly when she didn't have to. Well , when I see people come onto message boards , tell others who actually have a neurochemical imbalance to deal with that a little exercise and granola bars will change their genetic predisposition , I can't help but become angry at their ignorance and arrogance. The problem for them is entirely their own.
Are the drugs over-prescribed ? Absolutely. By what degree ? Nobody really knows. We can be pretty sure that people who actually need these medications will never enjoy a 'normal' life without the drugs though. For them , becoming convinced that the drugs are 'evil' is somebody robbing them of their quality of life. All of it. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/10/2009 3:25:40 PM | | Many depressions may be caused by spiritual crises. For example, if you placed your faith in the stock market, you may have railed against God permitting the fall of your retirement monies. You might have done what your Christian financial planner told you, saved your money and feel your faith was misplaced. That might make one depressed. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/10/2009 3:58:39 PM | I'm a dopamine and Seratonin addict and most of you are as well!, can't get enough of the stuff. I'm a biological organism and seek neurotransmitters and have since my birth. My brain doesn't know the different between synthetic and/or organic forms of such substances. Humans always have and will seek out such substances, the brain doesn't care either way.
I love to get high and feel good, I love to be passionate, and love to love, if a chemical provides this, I'm all for it. However, I only recommend as such if the brain is deficient in such chemicals which is why anti-depressants have a valid place.
Were not meant to be high all the time, we only have a limited supply of such receptor chemicals available. We can blow through them in a drug crazed frenzy over a few years, or choose to carefully and cautiously release them slowly and reach a state of mind where our brain can reach homeostasis and process in a way which makes life functional and meaningfull, not just entirely blissfull. If bliss was constantly chemically possible then constant dopamine infusion would be possible on a chemical level. It simply isn't within the brain's capacity.
Perhaps there is a way to superceid such chemical induced servitude and reach 'Nirvana.' Which is what I feel many of the eastern schools of philosophy preach. To overcome the barriers of the mind and chemical highs which dictate many a life. A lot of people have died seeking the chemical means, how many have done so seeking the other? That is telling at least to myself. I think I need to hop on the later's bandwagon. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/15/2009 5:18:31 PM | Okay it seems that two camps have sprung up on the thoughts of these drugs. There is the side that believes through diet,exercise,and spirtual beliefs and praying one can get through depression. Then there is the side that says depression can be caused by a nureochemical imbalance in the brain or by heriditary issues. I think to a certain extent both sides are right. By changeing the way you eat and by exercise you change the body and minds chemistry a bit. Therefore those that say diet and exercise will cure depression are technically right. Spirtual beliefs also help in the fact that you believe and convince yourself that there is a higher power(and yes I do believe in god) that can end your suffeering. But for those not overly religious and those that might not be suffering from a simpler case of depression antidepressants can and have been proven to help. Th sad truth is that some people do have chemical imbalances in there brain. These people after having been put on some form of AD medicince have reported being less depressed and having an overall more positive outlook on the future. I know for a fact that depression can run in familys(gentic predispostion) but unlike familys that have historys of heart diesease or cancer those familys suffering from a history of depresssion are looked down on. Im here to tell you that it does run in familys as my grandfather dealt with severe depression for the last 15 years of his life. And my Aunt has had problems with it to which were lessend and improved through the use of an AD medicine. I too suffer from depression and am convinced that it runs in at least half of my bloodline(alcholism on my fathers side yay ). So ar AD'S useful? Yes I think they are. Are they dangerous? That is the tougher question to answear. No one is to sure what kind of effects one might have from prolonged use. And that is what really worries me. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/15/2009 8:09:35 PM | I believe the stigma is more likely that people don't want to go on antidepressants but the ones who truly are in need tend to "self medicate" through an array of illegal substances or alcohol. So if you are one of those who truly are in need of a prescription be it for life or for short term I don't see why people don't consider trying them. There are many out there and as with many chronic illness physical or mental a smorgasbord of pills developed by the pharmaceutical companies and yes they push them but yes there are those in need. To throw a wet blanket on the people who really have a need for it shows that these individuals haven't dealt much with people who are truly afflicted.
Mental illness is real and has been real for a long time in history. I just got a email today showing how Opiates and Cocaine were legal and put in Vapors for those afflicted with Asthma , fainting spells, cramps etc.... instead of mental illness you were deemed possessed. So we have been trying to deal and medicate for centuries... someone who is clinically depressed and suicidal or not eating needs something.... drugs doesn't exactly make people "happy" they help them just be normal and able to process out their feelings. You still have to cope with what life throws at you, but not all of us have the chemical balance to even know where to begin to do that.. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/17/2009 5:32:44 AM | The short answer is yes they do help. I know of Zoloft helping a close relative change his entire outlook on life, and now he isn't such a diiiick anymore.
However, most good ADs are abused. I'm not a doctor but I don't think Xanax and Clonoipin should be taken daily. I think they should be used when they are needed, they don't take that long to start working. So these people that take xanax just because they are presribed it are exactly what is wrong with ADs.
Stronger ADs like Paxil are not good at all. I have a friend on it and he is stuck on it. Because it still causes you to act very bad when you come off of it. I've read a story of a kid that murdered his family because of it. I believe it, those drugs are strong and a chemical imbalance is nothing to laugh about.
I take ADs from time to time, although I've never been prescribed them. I think it helps when i'm really stressed, but I don't take it just cuz I want to get tore up.
Hope this helps | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/17/2009 11:10:02 AM | | They dominate treatment because mental illness is still very much based on the medical model. This is evidenced by the majority of responses already given. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/23/2009 5:19:09 PM | Because antidepressants work faster than most people are willing to sit in therapy...because your insurance company tells your psychologist (if it is covered) that they only have X# of sessions to "fix" you...because you are not willing to pay your psychologists his/her due salary week after week to get better.
Therapy works good. There are cases where certain kinds of therapy yields better results for certain diagnosis, but on average both antidepressants and therapy work equally effectively, but time and money is an issue for most.
Keep in mind I am talking about depression and compulsions here. Other diagnosis derived from the DSM are a different ball game.
I also reject this notion that psychologists are somehow in bed with drug companies.
1. Neural issues can be corrected, and thusly yield clear results in control trials.
2. Outliers in the data set aren't indicative of everybody who takes the pill.
3. Your MD has no business prescribing you SSRI's for any mood disorder. This behavior isn't indicative of the intentions and actions of people working in the trenches of the mental health field.
Psychologists should be able to prescribe pills with an extra year in Ph.D. programs. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/23/2009 8:40:55 PM |
When you need vitamins, you take vitamins
Vitamins are just a poor substitute for eating proper foods. When you need vitamins, you eat fresh fruits and vegitables, specially the green leafy ones. This country is addicted to fast cars, fast fixes, (fat) foods and rely on diets to keep from completely exploding. People always want the easy quick fix and those pills deliver. But they don't do much of anything to deal with the underlying problems that have created the problem in the first place. It's much more lucrative to "treat" someone than it is to cure them. Big pharma doesn't want cures. They want extensive expensive treatments that put their kids through college and afford them $16,000 shower curtains. We have pills for everything but we still can't even cure the common cold but we do sell every OTC fix imaginable. Go figure.
In point of fact, the medical profession is only recently recognizing the mind/body connection. When they finish learning about it, they'll be embarrassed by what they've done. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/23/2009 8:46:14 PM | | hi..I totally agree with you Bluesman...... Fun, chemo is a very toxic approach to cancer, check out what the alternative healthcare providers are doing for cancer and check out their success rate.... if you are going to buy into the fear that the mainstream sells you then it is no surprise that you see them as gods... as far as any disease running in the family, we generally follow similar patterns and habits from childhood to adulthood, this means that we will likely follow similar patterns of illness and disease... to every good thing that God gave us, the adversary has a counterfeit.. why not take a natural approach to health concerns when there are options for it.... I mean it is criminal when organs are removed instead of teaching proper nutrition and health practices... it is not rocket science to remove dairy for crohns, colitis and asthma, to limit luxury foods in heart disease or to eliminate toxic substances that saturate the mylen tissue causing autoimmune diseases, MS or Huntingtons.... if you are going to take drugs, know all the side effects and make informed decisions.... blessings for health, warmly Mona | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/23/2009 8:51:40 PM | Those of you who haven't suffered from depression - and I mean severe, 24/7, suicidal-thoughts type of depression - really have no business discussing the merits of antidepressants. Your opinions range from misguided to infuriating.
I believe I owe my life to antidepressants. I was depressed since my mid-teens. A year ago I reached a point where suicide seemed like the only reasonable way to stop feeling the way I felt. I took a three month course of a mild mood elevator, and turned my entire life around - even months after the medication, I am happier than I thought myself capable for over a decade. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/23/2009 9:23:50 PM |
Those of you who haven't suffered from depression - and I mean severe, 24/7, suicidal-thoughts type of depression - really have no business discussing the merits of antidepressants. Your opinions range from misguided to infuriating.
There are plenty of people out here who have suffered from major depression and, yes, even to the degree of having suicidal ideation, but have never relied on medication for a fix. Your problems may require long term psychotherapy. I don't know if you ever tried that. I don't know what your upbringing was all about. I was depressed all the time I was growing up but that was due to parental malpractice. Chemicals had nothing to do with it. It took years to figure it out. Sure, I could have gone on medication but all that does is mask the symptoms so I suppose you could take them for the rest of your life. If you believe that's what works for you, that WILL work for you. But that doesn't mean it's the only way and certainly not necessarily the best way.
I believe I owe my life to antidepressants. I was depressed since my mid-teens. A year ago I reached a point where suicide seemed like the only reasonable way to stop feeling the way I felt. I took a three month course of a mild mood elevator, and turned my entire life around - even months after the medication, I am happier than I thought myself capable for over a decade.
You weren't depressed about nothing. Once you figure out what that is, you won't need pills. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/24/2009 5:26:58 AM |
You weren't depressed about nothing. Once you figure out what that is, you won't need pills.
Actually, I was depressed about nothing. The very definition of nothing. So much for your armchair psychology. Do you see why it's frustrating to get misguided mental health advice from people who know nothing about you?
That's what was bad about it - the fact that it was totally unwarranted. If I knew what was causing it, I could have addressed it - instead, I felt like a ghost for no reason at all. I lived a relatively good, comfortable life. No convenient abuse or lost love or whatever contributing factors you may think of. I merely lost the will to get up in the morning, and believed my existence to be completely unnecessary and a burden on those around me.
All I needed, it turns out, was a reboot - a reminder of what it felt like to be happy. I had been miserable for so long, I literally forgot. The pills did that, and they did it quickly - I haven't relied on them since, I'm not dependent on them for the rest of my life as you suggest, and I am in great spirits. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/24/2009 8:50:27 AM | I reject this notion that drug companies are some sole evil force behind SSRI's. Yes, drug companies want to make money. However, extensive therapy is VERY expensive and VERY time consuming; depending on one's life circumstances, socioeconomic status and insurance coverage, getting extensive psychotherapy is not an option for many. Luckily the "parody law" was recently passed, which makes psychotherapy a very real possibility for many.
There is also the issue of how psychotherapy is administered, and what people actually know about what methods work best for people, and what requirements people need to treat you. There is a plethora of MSWs who are very good at treating a specific condition with their 3 years of training in grad school; however, there are also a plethora of MSWs who do not have adequate training to be treating every condition on the DSM IV: Jacks of all trades and masters of nothing. Unfortunately, most people don't want to pay a psychologist his/her due pay, and end up going to people who might not be qualified to treat them because it is 50$ cheaper an hour. Add on top of that the number of "witch doctors," naturopathy people, and pastors who are providing "psychotherapy" to people with no qualifications to treat them, and the fact you need to go see a psychiatrist in addition to psychologist to get pills...and you get a system where the path of least resistance is to find some SSRI's.
The fact is SSRI's work. There are neural deficiencies involves in many categories of psychological disorders. To say it is as simple as "picking yourself up by your boot straps" is ridiculous. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/24/2009 8:54:21 AM | | Also, if someone is suffering from major depressive episodes, and seeing a psychologists, it would be unethical to not try SSRI's or Lithium in the case of Bipolar disorder. You can not dispute studies. I also challenge you to find cases where someone is having major depression and not being treated by SSRI's. I know many psychologists, and none of them would not find a way to get the person on SSRI's. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/24/2009 8:57:51 AM | Simply put, science lacks the knowledge to be prescribing these drugs as common as they do. Granted, some of these drugs help some people some of the time, but the majority seem to fail. Whatever happened to the "95% rule" in scientific research??? I'm a big fan of psychology. It's fascinating, but it's only a smidget of the insane complexty of the CNS, but it seems psychiatry is still in the dark ages and patients are 'guinea pigs'. It only might be better than nothing, but there's too many that end up with more damaging results later on. This is the danger of misdiagnosis and that's not being treated correctly and progessing the condition rather than supressing it.
There are articles floating around about a recent observation between schizophrenia and autism...that they have some exact opposite traits to each other. This discovery opens the awareness that people with these conditions may have been misdiagnosed and therefore given treatment that could actually progress the 'disorder'.
My opinion...anitdepressants are dangerous when 'ignorance guides the blind'. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/24/2009 9:50:28 AM | Just curious...where do you get the audacity to say science lacks the knowledge to be prescribing these? Why does the number have to be 95% if 62% is significant? I think your trying to cast a disparaging cloud over the field of mental health professionals by talking of things you know nothing about.
Your citing of an observation between autism and schizophrenia is also totally unwarranted. And doesn't prove anything. There are different types of autism and different types of schizophrenia, all of which can look very different. There are also completely different neural, brain and genetic differences.
A manic episode is opposite of a depressive episode, what does that alone prove?
Mental health isn't voodoo, and to point to outliers as a typical case is ignorant. | |
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