| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/11/2009 12:49:48 PM | Ha, ha. Funding for the dangers of SSRI ain't made available lsd, but deductive logic still does the trick.
One need not be a Scientologist to secure evidence that chemical "clipping and snipping" of the executive cognitive prefrontal region of the brain occurs as a side effect. I'm not suggesting that scientists do this to people on purpose, but, money is too powerful of a motivation to stop this type of harm to the sacred frontal lobe any time soon. The psychiatrist sees and records "improvement" and the "therapeutic effect." Its only a loved one who notices that a person on these drugs is being deprived of life as much of what makes the individual is effaced. I've seen folks go from vibrant and feeling people to cold and heartless zombies on SSRIs. Psychiatrists cannot see this; so what if the scientologist can too. Have you not ever once seen this phenomenon for yourself, lsd?
Look at this propoganda, its strait out of 1984 lsd.
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SSRI Myth or Fact: Taking an SSRI Will Change My Personality.
It's true that taking an SSRI changes the chemistry inside your brain. This causes subtle changes in the way you feel, act, and behave.
But you just might like the new you. In one of the few studies measuring personality changes in response to antidepressants, those taking SSRIs felt more emotionally stable, outgoing, trusting, and assertive, and less hostile.
SSRIs are approved by the FDA for anxiety or depression that's severe enough to interfere with normal functioning in life. In that case, you could argue, maybe a minor personality makeover is worth a try.
Bottom Line: Treating depression with SSRIs, therapy or both may mean making changes to who you are.
http://www.webmd.com/depression/ssris-myths-and-facts-about-antidepressants
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The "better information" on health does not just confess that a new, happy mood comes upon one in a similar way that good sex might cause. Its boldly reported that the personality changes! "You might like the new you?" WTF? If not, can I get the old one back? For the answer, just look at the same page: "...After a period of exposure to SSRIs, however, the brain does adapt and get "used to" the medicine...After completing treatment, the SSRI dose is tapered and stopped, and the brain readjusts."
Readjusts to what?
Do we know, do we care? | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/11/2009 3:57:43 PM | | What happens to a brain after long-term SSRI use? Blunting. The body adapts to the increase in serotonin levels as presynapic autoreceptors are forever tweaked. Lower sensitivity of the autoreceptors would make a person unable to feel happy or sad because the body stops reacting to serotonin in its previous fashion. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/12/2009 10:17:17 PM | do we have the confidence in those drugs to chemically play in the mind?
don't think MOST recipients of those pills are chemically tested for lack of chemicals in there brain.
APA says there is no proper test. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/12/2009 10:40:12 PM | I think like all drugs ....
if used in moderation and with proper observations they have some benefits to some people.
just handing out prescriptions and leaving it up to the sick person to self medicate after that is a bit irresponsible yet quite legal and sort of the norm.
That is where so much of the problem with all drugs is.
[but who's got the time and money to fully observe and regulate... and wouldn't that also be invasive and maybe even unconstitutional?]
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/17/2009 1:19:06 AM | | I would have to say that after trying a few AD'S after hitting a low point in my young life(we all go through it at some point) they just dident work for me and even worse made me horribly ill. But I have been trying Saint John's Wart. And I have noticed over the last few days that I have been happier and have a bit better outlook on life right now in general. I have had zero side effects so far. For anyone that struggles with AD'S and experiences intorable side effects I would reccomend you maybe consider trying Saint John's wart. Im not sure if it has taken the full effect yet but I do know my mood has improved. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/17/2009 5:14:29 AM | So much nonsense in this thread.
Mis-prescription is different from whether a drug is useful and effective or not. SSRI's work exactly as promised but since most people don't understand what they're for and plenty of doctors get something for prescribing some SSRI's ( a highly frowned-upon circumstance by the way) then the drugs will continue to be used by people who don't really need them. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/17/2009 11:12:45 AM | so;
there is no test for chemicals not working properly in the brain.
there is LOTS of money involved in the drug industry.
many times drs. use trial and error. [for what ever reasons]
there is scientific fudging.
we still want a quick fix [and don't tell me about the costs, unless its going to kill me ...........................in the near future]
we want to look young and live forever.
looks like a good setup to play people. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/17/2009 4:07:43 PM | | What I wonder is why all the "opinions" stated here aren't based on studies and they invariably say that anything that is marketed or sold for profit have no positive benefits and many negative benefits. Invariably the person offering these opinions don't have medical backgrounds and their opinions are mainly a rehash of their biases against pharmaceutical drugs period. Generally they will sight some form of treatment that has no track record and they rationalize their lack of data with "common sense". | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/17/2009 6:16:07 PM |
so we should not criticise, and stick our heads in the sand.
Getting your head out of the sand would probably be more of what's required than sticking your head into the sand, first things first. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/20/2009 11:42:49 AM | Back in 2001 I was prescribed a relatively new antidepressant Celexa. This was after talking to a counsellor a few sessions, seemed pretty quick but I wanted to try it.
After a short while I was upset they didn't work the way I thought they were supposed too, so I took a bunch of them at once, only 4 or so. I somehow, could not erase the smile from my face, but was still not happy, not inside. I found that really strange though, as if the drug was to work like if people smile, they are said to just 'Be happier' that was funny.
I stopped taking them shortly after. I also didn't want to jump from prescription to prescription, but that is always offered. Though I know you have to ween off and get into another one, but I didn't want to.
I don't believe that doctors have the technology we should that can give us insight to where this depression is coming from.
I drank a vegetable and fruit juice every day for a few months, and recently turned back to that because I found I am so much happier just eating and drinking better. Even though I don't exercise aside from walking but I do know that can change more peoples perspective on life than these antidepressants!!!!
Something so great as sex even, can change a persons life! Well, that is if its what they are looking for. I have found too that when peoples expectations are too high(about any thing), that leaves them always susceptible to disappointment, and they get depressed over that.
Not many people know that therapy can be geared to income as well. Doctors don't prescribe the Spiritual therapy, but it is there if you look.
I wish we had a device that can instantly measure what is 'missing' in the blood that can say the diet that person should be on to defeat the depression. That is, for those cases where it is that easy to do.
Diet and exercise may not work for everyone,...but has much safer 'side effects' than any antidepressant!!!! | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:13:15 PM | | I am too lazy to get a solid background of the current discussion on this thread, but I do have a story to share. My brother just recently had a psychotic episode related to a drug intereaction with SSRI's. He stopped taking an opioid pain killer while on an SSRI, under physicians guidance. He spent the following weekend talking to non-existent people, and smashing up his house. Not everyone who is on SSRI's is also on opioids, so it is not a broad argument against them. However it is a pretty disruptive side effect. Why would any doctor prescribe someone on opioid pain killers an SSRI, knowing that if they ever stopped taking them, they would surely go batshit crazy? | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/20/2009 7:32:04 PM | Just an analogy I though of about SSRI&depression: Suppose one day you decided to take your motor boat out on lake. The engine wasn't operating too well and the boat has few leaks. Out in the middle of the lake the engine stops, the boat starts sink and to make matters worst your feet get tangled up in some equipment that weighs fifty pounds.
Depression is the mess you are in. Where you are and the decisions you made that got you there represents the mess(lost jobs, marriages,isolation) that your past has become. SSRI's will help you untangle your self from the equipment. If you can't swim, or aren't in shape enough to swim to short you are still going to drown, paring a miracle(another boat comes by or something). SSRI won't teach you to swim, or get you fit enough to swim to shore, and they definitely won't change the past that got you in the situation in the first place. But you gotta admit having the fifty pounds removed from your legs will in many cases improve your chances of getting to shore.
Exercise & Diet: great if you can do it. Most people who aren't complaining of depression aren't willing to do it even though they would benefit from it. Now throw in lack of sleep, excessive sleep, incoherent thinking(lose of motivation,severe sadness,etc), screwed up life, lack of appetite,excessive appetite to list a few diet and exercise isn't as easy as it seems.
Therapy: One of my favorite "Frasier" episodes was when Niels on short notice stuck Frasier when depression support group he was conducting. Frasier's comment was something to the affect that "With depressed people, small talk becomes itty bitty talk" . Therapy can help a lot(if you can benefit from insight about yourself & you are lucky enough to find a therapist that you have chemistry with), but if depression's got your tongue, therapy might just result in lots of "itty bitty" talk. SSRI might rise to the level of small talk or better.
Shock Therapy: Can help forget past traumas, but like any therapy it can't change reality. If life sucks it will still, you just won't have the painful memories how it got to suck. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:26:24 AM | ..... Lots of good thoughts on this thread ( and som e pretty ordinary ones as well !!).
Being one that has been on the AD merry-go-round, I can categorically state ( for me at least ...) that they DO have SOME benefits for someone that is overcome by depression. Mind you, the jury is out on whether long term use is the way to go .... I stopped taking them, against all medical advice, because I felt that the side effects of the particular AD I was taking had overtaken the beneficial effects after some four years of treatment.
In my experience, I had been trialled on quite a few different AD's with a range of side effects going from mild to severe with one nearly taking me out completely (apparently I have an allergy to whatever is in Seraquil) ..... I have developed a very healthy respect for these medications and would suggest that any thoughts of taking them should not be considered lightly.
As far as Psych's are concerned, I tend to agree with some of the comments made above .... "parking" the patient in the medication bay would seem the easy fix for most doctors followed by "small talk" visits that dont really do anyone any good, except for giving the doctor the opportunity to monitor your physical health while you take the drugs. In doing this a doctor can fill all his appointments with patients who are being easily managed by mind numbing medications, and all he has to do is check that they dont fall off the perch between visits ..... easy money ( about $200+ per visit).
In all fairness, I think that when my treatments started , I did need some sort of therapy since I was in pretty bad shape, and I believe that something did do me some good early on, however, side effects brought on a whole new series of problems that make life more challenging every day - in essence .... you grab the Tiger by the tail.
I think my course of treatment has had its run for now despite my doctor insisting I should keep pumping these things into me .... saying that they numb your brain is a bit of an understatement ..... I feel good for now ( its been over 6 months since I stopped medicating) and hope that this continues forever. If not .... I can always go back ........
(...wards)!!
To anyone that is on these things, or contemplating going on them ..... weigh it all up and get some WISE counsel ...... then make your own decision based on how YOU feel about things ..... after all, its your life ..... | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:53:28 AM | OK Can someone explain how the pharamceutical industry could possibly know how brain chemsistry works.
Recently a third type of retrovirus was discovered XMRV (Xenotropic Murein Retro Virus) which was initially discovered closely related to cancer of prostrate gland.
Until 2 years ago the other types were HIV and another related to Leukaemia
Now it has been discovered that XRMV appears to be 99.9% related to patients suffering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
Chronic fatigue syndrome involves sleep disturbances, intolerance to normal bright light, craving for carbohydrates round the clock, loss of short term memory, difficulty concentrating as well as the physical exhaustion after stong exercise.
Most people suffer all these conditions when attacked with normal cold or flu virus.
So what is going on in the brain when a previously unknown virus is attacking the system.
If XRMV is associated with prostrate cancer, how many other cancers are related?
If XRMV is associated with CFS and it appears Fibromyalgia then what other poorly understood conditions such as Multiple Sclerosis, Depression and Anxiety etc could be involved. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:01:05 AM | | The pharmaceutical industry cannot know how brain chemistry works. We do know that there are three primary chemicals naturally produced in the brain responseable for mood. Seratonin, nopehrinepine, and dopamine. The problem is that scientists dont know what the baseline average for these chemicals is. After testing on lab animals and them not dieing or having any servere long lasting negative effects an AD is passed on for use for the general public. The problem is that your docter or psychiatrist dont know if you have lower than average levels of one of the needed chemicals. Therefore they have to basically use trial and error not only with the dosage amount but the medication itself. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/21/2009 1:16:30 PM | You mean Quackery dont you.
If physicists cannot explain what a single atom actually is with respect to the electron shells how can quacks explain the interactions across synapses . Take the double slit dillemma no one in physics actually knows whether a electron is a particle or energy.
On what level do we actually think.
Is it on the electron shell or is it electric fields between electrons and what way can quacks explain molecular interactions with respect to thought.
The fact is we need to totally understand how a synapse works, how memory is actually stored and what mood or perception actually is before quacks can devise medicines to correct for "mental illness" | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:25:52 PM | Prozac has been on the market for 23 years. It probably had clinical trials that lasted 4-5 years prior to that. It was the original SSRI. Mountains of data on SSRI's exist, probably more data exists on them than most drugs. So far the nay sayers in this forum from what I've read couldn't begin to qualify for any of the research jobs required to develop a mental health drug, yet they seem to be arrogant enough to call them "quacks".
The fact is we need to totally understand how a synapse works, how memory is actually stored and what mood or perception actually is before quacks can devise medicines to correct for "mental illness"
Sounds like you should jot down your ideas on how the brain works & apply for grant. With your knowledge of the subject material how could they turn you down? BTW, what do you suggest we do with the mentally ill while you complete your research. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/22/2009 10:53:25 AM | perhaps you could tell us all on what level lithium citrate works
lithium is next atom larger than Helium
It is used by quacks who have no idea how it works and what it does
It may produce a change over time but so does rest and sympathy which comes first?
it is still quackery?
Perhaps you can tell us how electroconvulsive therapy works especially as used on women mostly by men.
perhaps you can explain how the full frontal lobotomy works on an electron interaction level. Is it not quackery?
How many Soviet citizens were condemned to mental hospitals by psychiatrists because they wanted democracy or freedom. Was that not quackery as well.
There is an exceptionally long way to go in understanding the human mind let alone interfereing with it. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/22/2009 8:18:58 PM | | I can see why you should have went down with the ship. Buddhists beleive you get in this life the results of wrong actions in past lives. No more beleivable one way or other than psychiatry. Perhaps you should look to your past for your misery today. | |
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| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 10/23/2009 1:42:18 AM | | They are aware of the effect they have on the brain, being that they block the reuptake of serotonin, and with long term use the direct long term side effect is that your brain stops doing the job on its own, which adds to why its sooooo bad for you to stop taking these pills on your own. Its that they dont know what CAUSES the serotonin to stop being absorbed. they dont know which comes first, the block and then the depression or vice versa. Ive never been on the medication. I dont think its good for you to take meds to fix a problem you dont know you need meds to fix. Maybe changes in life style or behavior would change your mood and then in turn change your serotonin levels. Until were sure, you shouldnt take something unless you need it. Some psych disorders do need medication, but with depression its up in the air. and up to you. | |
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