| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/7/2009 6:11:59 PM | Greetings:
Onions, and layers, and facets and Masks, Oh My. I must be on the yellow brick road. But all I want to do is get to the shining city on the hill and visit with the One who sits on the throne!
MizBex, I tend to agree with you that the vast number of folk "want to be good." But I'm not sure if it is a state of heart or a state of mind. For most of us we are good because we have learned that by being "good" our lives and interactions with others tend to run better. It is a matter of [u] self interest [/u].
As in the business world, in which what some mistakenly call greed is really self-interest, in the social world we serve our self interest by behaving in a certain way. The OP started off by calling this "a Mask," some have referred to it as facets, and others look at it as layers of an onion; but it all boils down to serving our self interest. Which, for most of us means we do good to others so that good is done to us.
Now don't think I'm disparaging doing good to receive good. I think it is great. (It's just that true altruism is a rare commodity and I'm not sure it really exists in any case. ) Doing good, being good, because it serves our self interest is A-OK in my book. Nor does it assume that if the return is less than the desired response the do-gooder will revert to some baser type. It's like saying because a business man/woman gets cheated he/she will start cheating customers. We all (well most) act in that 'do good to receive good' mode because we know in the long run the return is higher for that which we value.
as an example: lady at the Costco store the other day, looked like she was getting weirded out over some actual or perceived problem with her tires. She was having trouble determining tire pressures using an analogue guage. I whipped out my trusty digital meter and we had her pressures determined down to a tenth of a psi. She was relieved that the tires were inflated properly, wanted to know where to get such a nifty device, and she went on her merry way and I doubt I will cross paths with her again -- but being the small town this is, who knows?
It's a question of self interest. And while my act of kindness to her may not return a boon to me immediately, one never knows. One just never knows. I've helped stranded motorists, old men who looked faint, little children looking lost or confused; all because that is how I desire to be treated. Self interest.
As for the mask/onion layers/facets opinion: those are valid as well. It is sort of like overloading operators in programming: depending on the usage an operator can have a different meaning. My self-interest actions are going to be different from my son, a wife, my friends, and customers. Each of these folk are going to see a slightly different mask(?), layer (?), facet (?) of me depending on the situation -- but my base characteristics will remain the same.
It is like the blind men examining an elephant: though each blind man "sees" a different aspect of the elephant, the base characteristic of the elephant remained the same.
TK
{"Luuuuuke, seek the self-interest, feel the self-interest"} | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/7/2009 6:53:51 PM |
You don't paint your face and bring a 6 pack and an airhorn to a wedding to celebrate the nuptials. Well... there go my plans for next weekend. I certainly hope they refund that nifty air horn I bought... 
If you have to explain to someone the simple fact that at times you "can't" let it all hang out, then there's really no point in discussing it with that person any longer.
They're simply too myopic to understand that it's not a "mask" when you refrain from swearing like a truck driver around children or your grandparents, or in a meeting. Yeah, but you know me... nothing like a good head banging to get the juices flowing... 
However I think you can admit that you were passing some judgment on the cran/vodka women. Amusing...
OP... when was the last time you looked at something without making a judgment?
If I look at something that I find favourable... is that not a judgment being made? Albeit a kind one... but a judgment nonetheless.
In this particular instance, society dictates that one should not imbibe alcohol prior to 11:00 am. I'm not sure when or who decided upon this golden hour for acceptable drinking... but there it is... deeply ingrained.
I can't begin to count how many times on a weekend or vacation that I mixed up a jug of champagne orange juice first thing in the morning and sat out on the deck or the beach sipping away, happily lazing my day away. It feels decadent because society taught us that this isn't normal social behaviour.
I think the vast majority of people that hurt us don't purposefully set out to harm us, they just don't care if they do in their pursuit of what they want. My contention is that if a person, in their self-serving pursuit of happiness, sacrifices the feelings / well-being of others, then they are just as responsible as the ones that set out to purposefully hurt others. They don't purposefully try to NOT hurt others while going on their merry way. To try to minimize that kind of action/reaction is a cop out... plain and simple.
Imagine if we looked inward enough to see the differences between what we project and what we are, no matter how slight they are, imagine how the world would be. What you are failing to realize OP is that many of us do reflect on the people we are to others and how we perceive ourselves to be... simply because someone might see me in a certain light, doesn't make this any more real than the person who sees the same occurence/instance and comes to a different conclusion.
It's a matter of perception. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/7/2009 10:01:08 PM |
You don't paint your face and bring a 6 pack and an airhorn to a wedding to celebrate the nuptials.
You've obviously never been to a red neck wedding. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/7/2009 10:16:48 PM | | What I want to know Is who's got time for that bu11shit??? Im just me all the time, if you like it cool, if not screw you!! Thats why so many people put in their profile "looking for REAL" blah blah blah. | |
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sprýté
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Joined: 2/27/2009
Msg: 80 | |
| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/8/2009 2:58:28 AM | i'm amazed that no-one's posted this poem, so i will:
Paul Laurence Dunbar (1872-1906)
We Wear the Mask
WE wear the mask that grins and lies,
It hides our cheeks and shades our eyes,—
This debt we pay to human guile;
With torn and bleeding hearts we smile,
And mouth with myriad subtleties.
Why should the world be over-wise,
In counting all our tears and sighs?
Nay, let them only see us, while
We wear the mask.
We smile, but, O great Christ, our cries
To thee from tortured souls arise.
We sing, but oh the clay is vile
Beneath our feet, and long the mile;
But let the world dream otherwise,
We wear the mask!
i'll be the first to say that i wear a mask. i wear a few. i go by many names online as well as in real life - spryte is actually how i'm known in college. i was kitty during my art degree. it was during the art degree that i realised i was wearing a mask to the world 24/7, that i was trying so hard to be what i thought others wanted me to be, or at least expected me to be. sod psychology 101, do a couple of paintings, it's cheaper and the books weigh less.
i know where my masks start and finish, but the real trick is finding out who you are underneath the myriad masks and learning to accept them - you - for who and what they are. it's half the battle. "you can't love someone until you love yourself" might be one of the cheesiest cliché's going, but it's true - know yourself, trust yourself, love yourself, because giving that knowledge, love and trust to another person and accepting it in return won't sit right otherwise.
took me a good few years to stop wearing my mask by default. it's not an instantaneous process from realisation to actualisation, and not everyone wants to live without their masks.
it's all about acceptance. you don't have to understand, but you should learn to accept.
my two cents. have a nice day, folks. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/8/2009 3:29:38 AM | I think my answer to your question, OP, has already been said. Psst expressed my view perfectly!
We all have to play different roles in life and with those roles, comes appropriate behaviour & the right 'mask' for the job. A person only needs to look at the roles that they forfil each day or week, to see the masks that they put on regularly.
I'm a mother, student, daughter & friend: all those roles are significantly different from one another and each role has different expectations of me, so I act accordingly.
I don't act the same way in front of mother & son, as I do with my friends, and I don't act the same way in front of my tutors, as I do with my family.
However, each of those faces is the real me.
We all have 'core traits' and beliefs that affect our behaviour across situations; however, we can also adapt our personality to the situation we are dealing with.
Look up 'The Stanford Prison Experiment'- it's the perfect example of how personality can be mutable and how easily humans can fit in to a role that is not neccesarily 'them'.
Where relationships are concerned- people are people. If we were simple to understand, dating would be boring. I get the feeling that someone has p!ssed you off big time! Did the date not turn out to be who you thought she was? | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/8/2009 9:39:53 AM | Not wearing a mask: What an incredibly sophomoric thread.
Wearing a mask: What an interesting and insightful thread.
See how we all wear masks so as to get along nicely? | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/8/2009 10:16:58 AM | I loved your two cents, spryte!
That poem says it all. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/8/2009 10:21:04 AM | | Since nobody really "knows" who and what they "are"....nobody is really wearing a "mask.." Are they? | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/8/2009 11:30:38 AM | The Mask: "Our love is like a red, red rose... and I am a little thorny."
The Mask: standing in front of a mirror, in the process of going out to a club
"It's party time. P, A, R, T. Why? Because I gotta!"
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/8/2009 12:04:02 PM | You don't paint your face and bring a 6 pack and an airhorn to a wedding to celebrate the nuptials. You've obviously never been to a red neck wedding.
No, but I'm up for trying just about anything once.....
My contention is that if a person, in their self-serving pursuit of happiness, sacrifices the feelings / well-being of others, then they are just as responsible as the ones that set out to purposefully hurt others. They don't purposefully try to NOT hurt others while going on their merry way. To try to minimize that kind of action/reaction is a cop out... plain and simple.
Brilliant post.
What you are failing to realize OP is that many of us do reflect on the people we are to others and how we perceive ourselves to be... simply because someone might see me in a certain light, doesn't make this any more real than the person who sees the same occurence/instance and comes to a different conclusion.
It's a matter of perception.
Ok, another brilliant post.
Now I read something about champagne smoothies or something......are these ideas while sober?....lol | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/9/2009 4:06:37 AM | So, that's my problem! I forgot I was supposed to wear a mask! No wonder the masses run screaming!!
I am who I am all the time. I live with kids. They're great at pointing out all of your flaws and inconsistencies. If I'm ever not myself, they're all over me. If I can't fool them, I can't fool anybody. Easier just to be me, all the time.
At least my dogs love me! | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/9/2009 8:39:47 AM | | Some people who put profiles on here are not real and what I mean by that is they say in their profile they want a great man and than when you meet them they tell you, that you are not their type. My whole thing has always been whatever happen to giving a person a chance and it take more than one date to know if they person is for you. I have had this happen to me many times but it is insteresting how some people wait 7 years where I live at to see that I am a great person and people I work with believe in me the first time they meet me. I have met some real women on this site and thankful for that. Take care now. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/9/2009 9:56:47 AM |
Some people who put profiles on here are not real and what I mean by that is they say in their profile they want a great man and than when you meet them they tell you, that you are not their type. My whole thing has always been whatever happen to giving a person a chance and it take more than one date to know if they person is for you. I have had this happen to me many times but it is insteresting how some people wait 7 years where I live at to see that I am a great person and people I work with believe in me the first time they meet me. I have met some real women on this site and thankful for that. Take care now.
Something YOU are doing must be changed then. Some people can tell on the first date if they want to spend more time with you. Just because YOU aren't the one they are looking for doesn't mean they are fake when they say there are looking for a great man. You STILL have to have attraction. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/9/2009 9:57:51 AM |
Now I read something about champagne smoothies or something......are these ideas while sober?....lol Sober as a church mouse… 
You’d like the alcohol induced responses better… they normally end with the reminder for women to do their kegels… 
I really feel that this needs a response as well:
Some people who put profiles on here are not real and what I mean by that is they say in their profile they want a great man and than when you meet them they tell you, that you are not their type. Yes, I want a great man, but not just any great man, and the definition of great is different to so many people. Furthermore, to say that simply because the man is great that there is automatically a further interest in pursuing a relationship is absurd.
I can easily name off dozens of men on this site that I feel are great, some that I’ve met and some that I haven’t but have corresponded extensively with through mail and on the telephone. Each one of these men has displayed their greatness to me in various ways… but aside from one or two, the oomph just isn’t there for taking the relationship past the point of friendship. *Curses proximity*
Great is simply another word that fills in for nice when that becomes over-used.
My whole thing has always been whatever happen to giving a person a chance and it take more than one date to know if they person is for you. So you are going to tell me that you’ve never passed up a single profile while surfing because of something or other that was either written in it… or that their photo wasn’t quite what you were looking for in regards to a woman that will be on your arm?
Just because the strike against the person is pre-emptive of a meeting or any kind of contact, doesn’t exonerate you from applying the same standards as you expect from others.
At the end of the day, I very much disagree that someone placing a certain criteria on their profile and that being misinterpreted or expected that it is the only criteria that one must meet to qualify as being a mask that the profile writer has donned. All it really means is that the writer has failed to elaborate on their criteria for a partner and/or they are incapable of writing a profile to the degree of proficiency that the other person is expecting. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/9/2009 10:24:58 AM | Now I read something about champagne smoothies or something......are these ideas while sober?....lol Sober as a church mouse… You’d like the alcohol induced responses better… they normally end with the reminder for women to do their kegels…
You're obviously aware that there is nothing evil about kegels....
And ya, I don't mind a drink every now and again, no matter what the "topic"... | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 6/9/2009 11:43:39 AM | Sometimes it takes years to see the person behind the mask.
You've got to be true to yourself and show the real you. If not, you're setting yourself up for a tumble later. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 7/16/2009 10:48:50 PM | "I think that the only people who don't present multiple layers of themselves would be "self-actualized" ie. Mother Theresa, Ghandi and so on."
The irreconcilable dichotomy between this statement and what the wonderful poem said about bad purchases is what drives me nuts. Are we, each, despite our bad purchases, i.e. the dreams and desires that we never get fulfilled, are we nevertheless each a Ghandi and an M.Theresa? Or were Ghandi and M. Theresa two of us who also had the bad purchases but hid it better or history simply brushed them aside when created the legends around these two and people like these?
I am really, but really at a loss. Is there really such a big difference between human and human, in terms of their own viewing pleasure of themselves? I am sorry, I cannot accept that at all. I don't know which pattern is the true one -- the self-doubting stuttering self-view or the -- to me -- mythical self-acutalization. But what I cannot accpet is that some people are this way, and some people are the other way.
This I can't prove, and I appreciate if for everyone it's and individual choice or individual matter of belief.
What a mindblast. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 7/16/2009 11:41:17 PM | | Cool topic, too bad the idea was basically Ctrl-v'd from some phychologist. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 7/17/2009 5:22:17 AM | | Silken Fire that was awesome and oh so true. You are right that needed posting and thank you for sharing it, we all need to read and reread that, makes you see people in a whole new light doesn't it? I know it did me. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 7/17/2009 5:25:42 AM | | Well, now...I have a different mask for everyone I meet or talk to. A "mommy" mask for the kids, a "best friend" mask, a "great office chick" mask, etc. The only time I am truly ever stripped of any mask is when I'm alone with myself. I can't really see changing that, as it is the one thing I have that no one will ever damage, threaten, or take away from me. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 7/17/2009 8:47:08 AM | A great thread. Wonderful responses. Thought provoking.
I think I am falling in love with psssst which when pronounced, I believe, is pissed... aka champagne and OJ. (I prefer OJ and Tonic and Gin, so please mix us up a batch while I wax on)
I think that the "mask" analogy is a good one. What it conjures up however is purposeful deceit, which in some cases may be true, but for me... uh Nah.
I look at my "masks" like growth rings on a tree. As I grow, my outer layer reflects my latest being. My mask aka persona aka outer appearance aka latest incarnate "whatever" is but a reflection of my current being.
What appears to be a "mask" is but another’s "perception" of what they view. When I roll to a stop on my motorcycle and you look at me clad in my riding attire, I am but me, yet you may have a perception of me based on an outer appearance, and your past experiences with men on Harleys clad in their choice of apparel. You really have ZERO idea of the "man" (used loosely I admit as when you see past the masks I am but still a child) who is there.
What we put out for others to see is hopefully a true representation of who we are. You may get hung up on certain assumptions you make by what you view (read, hear, see, feel etc.) but it is not necessarily a mask or a purposeful deceit. It is but an appearance.
To truly know someone you must have empathy, excellent listening and comprehension skills, and a genuine interest. As you employ these things you should be able to see that it is not masks, but facets of a beautifully complex life form. | |
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| Take off the mask
Posted: 7/17/2009 8:58:47 AM | I wear no mask thank you very much OP. I do however wear the slippers of ethereal enlighment...(urgh speil cheek where art thou)
However I concur with what your kinda driving at
people should just be themselves is all i can really say
why arnt they, wicked asks and promptly runs out of crayon | |
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