| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 6:57:58 AM | | I don't really see your logic. Wouldn't you want to know if you can live with someone before you actually marry them? Everyone has little habits and ways of doing things that you don't discover until you live together. It's alot easier to just move out then it is to get divorced because you were not prepared for the living experience. | |
|
| |
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 7:14:13 AM | I'm not sure that I want to remarry...but I lived with my ex before we were married,so I don't know if living together before marriage is a good thing or not. Living together instead of marriage is a different question.....
If "...living together is a sure fire way to wreck even the best relationship", why consider marriage? Interesting quandry.... | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 7:14:21 AM |
So, instead of trying to stay "stuck" in what worked in the 50's, maybe we should be looking at how we make things work in the current culture?
So...????
C'mon...if you want to talk the talk...then walk the walk... What do you suggest????
It's all great and fine to sit and pontificate over the hamster wheel and justify something that doesn't work either...look around us.
The favourite "red herring"? Go and give the idea of marriage some more sh*it-kicking. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 7:16:01 AM |
You want to wreck it by living together after the wedding. Perfectly logical, Mr. Spock.
I wanted to say that.
By your logic, every marriage on the face of the earth is DOOMED. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 9:22:34 AM |
So, instead of trying to stay "stuck" in what worked in the 50's, maybe we should be looking at how we make things work in the current culture?
I don't feel having old fashioned values - based on what has worked in the past - is to be 'stuck'. The same values that worked back then do work today in some cases and it doesn't have anything to do with modern times. Example: A liar in the 50's is the same as a liar in 2009. Honesty, integrity, commitment, a deep abiding love for one another are the things that make a relationship work now just as they did then. Problem isn't with the concept of marriage vs. living together, or the year we live in, it's with the folks involved in the failing relationship! :) Everything has a foundation and if you don't have one in a relationship it isn't going to matter what you believe. You can't build a solid relationship on any one aspect of a relationship (sex, money, etc.) just like you can't be a healthy individual if you ignore the things that make a person healthy.
In these "modern" times we see this type of thing all the time - ban guns because they kill people (guns don't kill people, people do). Drive slower and save lives (most fatalities happen on city streets where the speed was between 30 and 50), etc. There's a problem in the logic, not the concept.
I spent a great number of years doing the 'live together' thing and it wasn't the same as our marriage - not to me and it wasn't to him. This instantaneous "I can walk when I wanna walk" thing is symptomatic at best. The same mentality says "take a concept that's good, decent and 'right' for some people, water it down, send it back to the masses and expect better and/or the same results than the original? pfft. Will never happen that idealistically, because it's about individuals, not about concepts.
Marriages fail, just like "live-in,walk when ya want" relationships fail. The rate of failure goes up every year so obviously something isn't working in either scenerio.
Bottom line is the variables are different for everyone. Our opinions are formed from our own experiences or of the examples set for us as children. Finding someone who believes exactly as you believe isn't even an option, because no one's had exactly your experience. The OP believes one thing is right, his girl totally another. A compromise of 'beliefs' is the only way to solve the issue (or any other issue in a relationship). It's nothing new and 2009 doesn't have the corner on ideas about what works in relationships...been a topic since the beginning of time, I'm sure.
Just my opinion  | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 9:26:49 AM | | I'm going to go out on a limb and agree with you timothypaul; it sounds to me like she wants a "test drive". Its very easy to walk away at any point in time when it's just living together. Decide how important this value is to you and whether or not you're willing to compromise. Good luck! | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 9:36:04 AM |
Living together is simply a way to see if two people can STAND each other on a day to day basis and do everything required in marriage without regret (including giving up certain freedoms and escape the "me" mentality of singlehood) and be happy. I disagree with your reason 100%. To me the reason to live together is the same reason two people choose to get married.. It's because we love each other, we cherish our companionship, we think (mostly) along the same lines and if we don't, it can be debated intelligently, , we've got each other's back, we passionately enjoy our sex lives, we've already ascertained if we are both good at conflict resolution and can work through differences without washing our hands of each other or sweeping the conflict under the rug leaving it to fester. Very important is having the ability and desire to compromise when needed (meaning both end up with someting of value.. not one giving in to keep the peace) AND we want to experience our lives together (where applicable) while we raise the children we'll eventually have... Most importantly we are devoted to each other.
To me, a "test run" is for people who aren't sure or confident that they have any of the above relationship criteria already established.
Yet in relationships, many make the same mistakes over and over again, choosing the same type of people, refusing to look at ourselves and our own part in it, yet expecting different results. No kidding.. the fora is filled with ego driven "victims." | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 10:15:34 AM | message 124, BoudaciaSmile:
Marriage is the ceremony of the vows of committment. Our lives are all full of ceremonies in various degrees. Funny that people put more into the ceremony of "Divorce Parties" than the actual important ceremony in the first place.
Kudo to you for saying that 
I only would like to add, that people mostly concentrate on those little ceremonies and legal document and thinking this would make their relationship work. In the reality, those vows of commitment should be exchanges between couples more frequently, and privately, because such is reality, one should touch base with the other, and even revise commitment, if necessary. In life, nothing is written in stone. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 11:03:03 AM |
Wouldn't you want to know if you can live with someone before you actually marry them?
The answer to this is really very simple. If you love the person the right way' You know that word that people choke on every time they try to use it' "Unconditionally" You will be able to live with them in marriage without having to "shack up" with with them first. It all goes back to what i posted the first time. People want to dart around the real reason they shack up with one another. They just can't admit it to themselves. They don't want commitment. There afraid of it. When the answer is right there under there nose. Bottom line is'
If your willing to shack up without marriage or commitment you don't really love the person. You want the perks of marriage (sex) without true love and commitment so you can run away when things get tough. If two people really love each other they will marry. They will see each other through the good times and the bad.
That's what's lost with most people now. There to "self" motivated. They want what they want without any strings attached.
If you can unconditionally love another person you can put up with there little quirks. You can marry that person without living with them first. The excuse for living together is bull shyt. If a woman tells me she wants to live with me first before marrying me i know from there that she really doesn't love me the way she should. Then i know it's time for me to find someone else. Someone who has the capability to love me unconditionally. That's the key.  | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 11:12:57 AM |
They just can't admit it to themselves. They don't want commitment. There afraid of it. When the answer is right there under there nose. Bottom line is' Do you honestly believe that if someone takes the huge step of living with someone that they don't want commitment.. Certainly they can have those things you mention without actually living with them.
If your willing to shack up without marriage or commitment you don't really love the person. You say that as if it's the universal truth.. If you add the word "some" before labelling all co-habitators as "not really loving the person" it would sound more plausible
You want the perks of marriage (sex) without true love and commitment so you can run away when things get tough. In this day and age, many people can get the perks of "marriage" without actually having to live together.. so it would be logical to accept that those that live together are doing it for other reasons than just "the perks"
If two people really love each other they will marry. They will see each other through the good times and the bad. Agreed.. and it can also be argued that if two people love each other and understand what commitment actually means (it's not all about sex) then they will be there for each other in good times and bad as well.
That's what's lost with most people now. There to "self" motivated. They want what they want without any strings attached. I agree.. but that would apply to those that get married (when they shouldn't) as well as those that choose to simply co-habitate.
If you can unconditionally love another person you can put up with there little quirks. You can marry that person without living with them first. The excuse for living together is bull shyt. If a woman tells me she wants to live with me first before marrying me i know from there that she really doesn't love me the way she should. Then i know it's time for me to find someone else. Someone who has the capability to love me unconditionally. That's the key. I think you can love your children unconditionally.. but human nature doesn't allow for most people to love "unconditionally" when in a romantic relationship or else no one would divorce due to infidelity. (For an example)Fidelity is a condition that most people in love impose on one another. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 11:27:13 AM | | OMG....whatever happened to common sence...studies and morality aside you do not have to be a socialogist with a masters in theology to see the benifits of living together before marriage...finacial / emotional/ time/ etc...I think it is away of confiming what you already beleive about someone and maybe Im being a little cynical but people are not always who they say they are or what we believe them to be... | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 11:30:46 AM | | Cant tell you, because it's not my value so i could not be in the same situation. I would never marry someone who I have not lived with. Personally I would think it insane. This is something that one of you will need to make a compromise about or change their view about. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 12:29:48 PM | msg 125....cion3 nailed it.
My late husband and I agreed not to get married when we met 25 years ago.
We got married 15 months after meeting each other. We lived together starting the day we met.
We got along so well, we found no reason not to get married.
THE DEFENSE RESTS!!!!!
These stats that have been presented are really useless.
If you take the couples that lived together before marriage that eventually divorce,
they are doing your statistics a favor! If they married first, most would have still probably divorced!!! Then you marriage first stats would have a much higher divorce rate while the living together ratio would be perfect.
What did I just say?
Cion3, congratulations on a great marriage. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 12:57:12 PM | I found quite a number of stats on this issue, the below example from health.discovery.com. It clarified my beliefs that marriage takes commitment and compromise and for many people, that necessary compromise is easier to do when you've committed to doing just that. Very few couples can join lives seamlessly without any compromise. It was interesting to read that there's been no difference, in the studies, for couple that already plan to get married and live together before the wedding.
"Marriage Myth 5: Couples who live together before marriage, and are thus able to test how well suited they are for each other, have more satisfying and longer-lasting marriages than couples who do not.
"Fact: Many studies have found that those who live together before marriage have less satisfying marriages and a considerably higher chance of eventually breaking up. One reason is that people who cohabit may be more skittish of commitment and more likely to call it quits when problems arise. But in addition, the very act of living together may lead to attitudes that make happy marriages more difficult. The findings of one recent study, for example, suggest "there may be less motivation for cohabiting partners to develop their conflict resolution and support skills. (One important exception: Cohabiting couples who are already planning to marry each other in the near future have just as good a chance at staying together as couples who don't live together before marriage)."
My parents met and married 6 months later. I think it's very likely that were my mom to live with my dad for any amount of time before they married, I probably wouldn't be on this planet. They celebrated their 40th wedding anniversary a couple years ago, and while life isn't always roses, they've compromised along the way, weathered some rough times and are very happy and enjoying their retirement together. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 1:15:41 PM |
"Fact: Many studies have found that those who live together before marriage have less satisfying marriages and a considerably higher chance of eventually breaking up. One reason is that people who cohabit may be more skittish of commitment and more likely to call it quits when problems arise. But in addition, the very act of living together may lead to attitudes that make happy marriages more difficult. The findings of one recent study, for example, suggest "there may be less motivation for cohabiting partners to develop their conflict resolution and support skills.
In my opinion there is a false correlation connecting living together with a higher divorce rate. Its not a causal relationship.
There's a much better reason for this phenomena (again, in my opinion):
Lets break it down into two general types of couples. There's couple 'A' where it is a perfect match and they instantly know the other person is 'the one. '
Then there's couple 'B' where they like each other, but they aren't sure if the other person is the one they want to grow old with.
Couple 'A' is a better match therefore, couple 'A' marriages tend to last longer. Couple 'B' is not as good a match, therefore couple 'B' marriages are more likely to end in divorce. Whether or not these couples live together before marriage is more or less irrelevant in terms of likelihood of divorce.
So why do statistics show that people who live together before marriage are more likely to end in divorce? Its because people who live together before marriage are more likely couple 'B,' they want to get to know the other person more before committing to marriage. Couple 'A' types already know they found 'the one' so they tend to get married right away, before living with each other for an extended period. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 1:15:54 PM | | I would not live with someone prior to marrying him, but that is what works for me. Some people find it appealing to live with someone and never get married, some live with them and then marry them, some live with them and break up, etc. I tend to agree with at least part of what Aires Looking has to say on the topic, but everyone has different ideas about the topic, partly depending on what they have experienced in their lives. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 1:17:36 PM | | honestly... from personal experience its completely better to live with them before you marry them! they are totally different in that situation, and it will show you exactly what your getting yourself into! | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 1:18:33 PM | TP, there is no proof that living together prior to marriage will 'wreck' the relationship. I have lived with men prior to marriage and with no marriage occurring and they have still ended. It had nothing to do with whether or not we married. It had to do with the fact that it was not a good relationship. Certainly, it is easier to end a relationship if marriage isn't a part of the equation, but I don't believe that marriage would have change the fact that it ended.
For me, I do prefer the sanctity of marriage, even at this age. But if the man in my life was adamant about NOT getting married, it wouldn't be a deal breaker. I would try to make the relationship work just as vigorously whether we were married or not. I just would rather he be my 'husband' and not my 'significant other', or any other euphemism. And I would hope he would prefer I was his 'wife' and not just his 'live-in girlfriend'. To me, it is the ultimate commitment to show our love for one another. But I would definitely insist on living together PRIOR to getting married. You never know someone until you live with them.
BTW, my son and his girlfriend (who I consider and call my d-i-l) have been together for 21 1/2 years and it certainly hasn't wrecked their relationship. But that has been their choice. It isn't necessarily mine. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 1:20:38 PM |
(One important exception: Cohabiting couples who are already planning to marry each other in the near future have just as good a chance at staying together as couples who don't live together before marriage)." Ok, I can accept the logic in this. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 1:22:04 PM |
My parents met and married 6 months later. I think it's very likely that were my mom to live with my dad for any amount of time before they married, I probably wouldn't be on this planet. They celebrated their 40th wedding anniversary a couple years ago, and while life isn't always roses, they've compromised along the way, weathered some rough times and are very happy and enjoying their retirement together. Just a question: Are you saying that you think you "wouldn't be here today" I f your parents had chose to live together first without the benefit of a marriage licence? Even though during their co-habitation they were: Loving and devoted to each other, bought a home together, learned all about conflict resolution, had great support for each other, had learned how to compromise, and they were'nt "skittish about commitment.(living together is commitment)?
I think it's wonderful that they've had a successful partnership.. but assuming that they wouldn't have had one if they had co-habitated doesn't make any sense to me. Unless of course, they aren't that happy in general but stay together just because the marriage contract makes it just too much trouble to dissolve so they're bearing it. (??????) | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 1:22:10 PM | Rockondon;
I understand what you're saying but would like to take it a step further. I think there's also a high likelihood that many of your "couple B's" have a deep down inkling that marriage with that person probably wouldn't work. I think a lot of people ignore their intuition and indications because they really want it to work (and some people with simply anyone to avoid being alone).
I don't think it takes living with someone to discover if you can make a commitment to them. I think what it takes is, while dating and having a great time and enjoying each other's company, also knowing what you want and can't accept and actively being open with communication and aware of the things that may doom you and talking about them first rather than hoping they'll go away, or the other person will miraculously change.
Wishes:
Funny enough, I asked my mom a few years back if she would marry my dad again, knowing what she does now, and she said probably not. But they have a deep religious faith, but also their morals and values are such that they take the vows of marriage serious enough to work out issues they've come across. At the time they married, living together wasn't as socially acceptable as it is today, so it wouldn't have been a consideration.. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 1:45:58 PM | ^^ When we started our live-in lives together.. we were ostrasized by some people (my mother and brother included for a while) because it was'nt yet popular.
Oddly enough: My father saw the love my ex and I had for each other, but realized that we hadn't quite figured out conflict resoloution that worked for us both.. He thought the only way we would learn that was to live together until we figured out if we could find away to avoid the little power struggles or realize that it would never happen, and we'd break up and get on with our lives with someone more compatible... As I said before our union lasted 30 years until a certain conflict couldn't be resolved(even after attempts to resolve through personal discussion and martial counciling )
I may sound like I'm against marriage, I'm not.. afterall we married after being unmarried for 6 years. What I'm debating here are the reasons that people are giving for Not living together.. they just don't make logical sense to me. All Most anti-cohabitation people keep saying is it shows commitment to have a licence.. well, to me, it shows just as much commitment to pack up all your stuff, leave where you were presumably quite happy and share the same place with someone you want to spend the rest of your life with in the most unconditional way possible. As I mentioned before total unconditional love is not possible for romantic love, If it was no couple would ever divorce.
The only thing I'm "anti" is people who live together when their partner has shown through his/her habitual selfish/abusive/lying/poor with finances/chronically disloyal in some manner or any other negative actions that actually prove that they won't be a good marriage partner, or co-habitation partner but they go ahead and do either anyway. Whats up with that?
Thanks for answering my question Trailgirl. :0) | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 1:54:19 PM | | Some people do not believe in it due to personal and/or religious reasons, etc. It is a personal opinion, and if a man wants to live with me versus marrying me, than he is not the one for me and I am not the one for him. | |
|
| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2009 1:54:55 PM |
I think you can love your children unconditionally.. but human nature doesn't allow for most people to love "unconditionally" when in a romantic relationship or else no one would divorce due to infidelity.
Well' I'm sorry to say it sounds like you have never truly been in love. If you have you would know that what i am saying is truth. If your willing to unconditionally love someone you will be willing to forgive them of most things. AS far as infidelity goes. That has nothing to do with unconditional love for someone. Being true to someone comes from the heart as well but it's also part of the marriage vows. I hope i am saying this right' But if i remember right' "Cleve only unto him/her" If they don't do that then that is grounds for divorce. The person broke there vow.
Your post proves my point. People are unwilling to give of themselves anymore. It's all about control and sex. There was a time when people allowed themselves to love someone unconditionally. I know because i personally have done it and i have seen it done in countless other people. But these people i speak of were and still are willing to put in the work that it takes to keep there relationships going. Most people now don't want to do that anymore. There not willing to put in the time or effort to make there marriage work. So the shack up. That way they get the perks of marriage without the commitment and without having to put in the time. They get tired of the one there with' Hey' No strings attached. Throw that one away and go get another. Now they will not allow it because they want to be in control. As i have already said' They want to be able to leave when ever the notion hits them. They wanna fu^% and when they get tired of each other they can move on with no strings attached.
This statement farther proves my point.
(For an example)Fidelity is a condition that most people in love impose on one another.
You da.m.n straight. I want someone who will be true to me. I know that some people who marry play around on there spouses. But at the same time if a woman isn't serious enough about me to marry me i don't think she would take her vows very seriously either. Good reason to move on and find someone else instead of moving in with her. Sorry' I know this is a broad brush here. But most people i encounter now are morally bankrupt. Our whole society now is pretty much that way. If it takes to much work throw it away. If you don't like the marriage vows throw them away. Write your own to suit the way you want to live.
By the way' I know several couples who there spouse played around on the other. There still together. They didn't divorce. It took a lot of hard work but they pulled out of it. It can be done when there is unconditional love between the two and a willingness to work it out. | |
|
Home
login 
