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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/8/2009 7:27:17 AM | | It's about giving and taking.Whether you live with them first or marry them first. It's about compromise. It's about total communication, like it was said in an earlier post, it's not always about 50/50.It's about doing what's right. It's about morality. We could easily have been established with the will of animals and choose our mates based on sexual attraction only with no concerns for anything. Bang and run. Then what would that make us. Nothing better than the animal kingdom. To much emphasis has been placed on materialistic society. It's basically socialism within our own household. You either are what I want you to be and do what I want or you're not for me. When I was married I asked my then wife a question once that said if I lost everything I had except you and the kids and found myself on a park bench what would you do. Immediate response with no thinking involved was, I'd leave you and find someone else. That's superfical love in my book. Whether you live together or marry, people need to first learn what love truely is. Give and take, accepting people for who they are. As said earlier, you're still the same person whether you put on weight, lose the 6 pack, lose your teeth, etc. People are superfical. They're looking for a Farrari but have no idea what a Farrari looks like and if they do they fail to see that the Farrari needs the same amount of maintenance as anything mechanical. It doesn't change just because it cost more. In fact it cost more to maintain the superficial life human's live today. So in my book stick with the vows,the true meaning of working for a goal and quit trying to see if she fits your rocket or if her cave is to big for your hummer... Isn't dating and as the ole folks use to say corting is all about to get to know the person so you'll know if that's the right one for you? | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/8/2009 7:38:14 AM | The same old 50's drivel is simply a red herring. Divert from today's crap, too.
Do you NOT think that in today's world there is not abuse? There is not child porn?
<div class="quote">It has to be acknowledged that many homes were not so peachy keen as well. Infidelities were ignored, child abuse was often swept under the rug when it was confirmed, spousal abuse, both mental and physical was the norm in many households.. Valium wasn't nick named "Mother's Little Helper" for nothing.
Now they have many OTHER pills to deal with the greater stress of life. So many anti-despressents out there....plus the normal drugs to help them get through life like pot, meth, crack, heroin...and ...heaven knows what else.
Yup! The mothers and women who are in treatment is mind-blowing.
But..according to "knowledgable" idealistic people life is grand today and these kinds of abuses don't happen today.
Abusive men are abusive men and they are as plentiful today or more! My darling friend who is a cop says that domestic abuse/violence is tops as far as keeping them busy and is the #one reason for budget increases. Now...these abusive men just go from single mother to single mother and abuse the kids and her for awhile.
Men who father and who don't stick around. Yes!! They abound today. Go visit a court session for a couple days. Informative.
Child abuse and porn is so rampant today, it's a huge money-making market!
I don't think I need to go on.
There is much ugliness today and now we don't have the values.
Go figure.
I would like, in looking towards the future, do my part in instilling some kind of reason and sense in the chaos of confusion to do with marriage and it's meaning.
I would like to bring back family values that make kids feel happy and safe again.
But, how???
I taught my kids by example. They didn't smoke or do drugs. They drink within reason. They have good temperaments and they have good careers. They have good partners and good outside interests. What is a nice barometer is that people really like them. They also have good values and have integrity and honesty as their mantra for life. It just comes naturally for them. I feel very lucky and I thank God that I was given such beautiful kids to raise.
As for marrying again? I'd do it again and I do have a good sense of what a good man is about.
As for the argument of living with someone before?
I am sounding like a parrot. IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE!
If your head is NOT in "forever mode" and just in it for your needs and wants. It will die. This is the legacy of the ME generation.
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/8/2009 8:18:54 AM | I like that you posted your thoughts this time without the vibe of it being a lecture.
But..according to "knowledgable" idealistic people life is grand today and these kinds of abuses don't happen today. Surely no one can be so naive that they think that "life is grand" in general. It may be in their own circle though. (As you described your family to be)
I would like, in looking towards the future, do my part in instilling some kind of reason and sense in the chaos of confusion to do with marriage and it's meaning.
I would like to bring back family values that make kids feel happy and safe again.
But, how??? Very admirable. Perhaps since you're "in the business" you can use the media. Hopefully they won't edit it down to mean something completely different than you intended. Forum message boards will do little to accomplish anything except the exchange of opinions. Lets face it.. single parent families are rampant.. Perhaps along with sex education in the schools they can include courses in love, devotion, commitment, in otherwords loving care. Imagine how many people would be reached if the Admin of this site provided a Forum run by professionals in child development, marriage and psycological counciling.. It would help those interested.. but they'd have to actually be interested in improving themselves and their lot in life.
Like you, I taught my daughter by example and she's a great kid.. She was fortunate enough to grow up with two loving parents which of course helped. As I said before.. many boomers had two parent households.. but the example they were taught was of dysfunction.. many of those adult boomer children don't have the training or the education or the motivation to be good examples to their offspring and the cycle continues.
.............................................................................................................................>>>
As for the argument of living with someone before?
I am sounding like a parrot. IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE!
If your head is NOT in "forever mode" and just in it for your needs and wants. It will die. Totally agree. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/8/2009 8:23:51 AM | I spent some time looking through those research reports; much of what they have is flawed for reasons forums1 and other posters have pointed out. In the studies I've looked at, the percentage of long standing live-with relationships weren't considered. That's not too surprising, because they aren't measured, but it does mean that these studies are only considering a piece of the puzzle.
What I have thought is valuable is it depends on the attitude people have towards living together or marriage. We all bring, along with our toothbrushes, the meanings we attach to things.
If your attitude is "we're married so that's it, no longer need to work on things" I can see how complacency and taking it for granted could creep in.
If ones attitude is "we're moving in together to test things out" I can see how that is a different commitment than marriage. People who are testing, aren't fully in and have a greater likelihood of pulling up stakes over a problem encountered. I can see how this could contribute negatively to long term success of the union, and let me explain why. People develop habits and become accustomed to a certain 'way of being' with each other and within their relationship. It is conceivable that, if they way they live together, reinforces a way of looking at each other as a temporary or trial that it will be psychologically easier to just pull the plug as soon as one encounters a large enough problem.
For most people, living together is wanting to see what married life would be like with this person, without making the commitment of marriage. I'd argue if people entered into living together with the same commitment that they bring to marriage, having the piece of paper, or not, would truly mean nothing. And some people do, but I imagine most don't.
A further complication in looking at these statistics is that some people view permanence through a different lens. Some people view our life as impermanent. For them, the idea of promising forever, when forever does not and can not exist, is nonsensical.
So, as far as I can tell, the argument comes down to what your attitude is and the meanings you attach. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/8/2009 8:29:49 AM |
You fall "head over heels" for someone, and they feel the same way about you. You're GOOD together. Problem is they want to live together before marriage. You don't, knowing that living together is a sure fire way to wreck even the best relatiohship. What do you?
If you can't live together before marriage, you won't be able to after marriage. You get married by signing a piece of paper, and I can't see how that will help you. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/8/2009 8:31:21 AM | I would not live with someone I would not consider marrying (there are some limited exceptions to this), nor would I marry someone without living with them first.
Unless you live together, there are too many things you probably can't learn about someone, and those things could be deal-breakers (from habits to core values). Live with someone through enough good times and bad, and you have a much better gauge of their character and commitment. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/8/2009 8:34:16 AM |
I'd argue if people entered into living together with the same commitment that they bring to marriage, having the piece of paper, or not, would truly mean nothing. And some people do, but I imagine most don't. Absolutely. When we moved in together we were both in the same mind frame. To us, we WERE considered married within our union .. we just couldn't legally call ourselves that .. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/8/2009 10:09:39 AM | ItsMargo I enjoyed reading your post because instead of just saying, "it doesn't sound right to me, this is what I think," you took the time actually read the studies. It amazes me that people continue to post babble or rhetoric without actually reading the studies. "Well everything you read isn't the truth." No, really? Check out on line how many studies there are out there saying the same things about why marriages today are different than they were some 50 plus years ago. Just because some articles are slanted, doesn't make them all. Do exactly what ItsMargo did and instead of closing your eyes and holding your ears, do the research, look up the statistics and the information.
I've had this on my myspace page for a very long time. "Who controls the media, controls the mind The more often a LIE is repeated, the more likely the LIE will become TRUTH to the majority Who CONTROLS the PAST, CONTROLS the FUTURE. Who CONTROLS the PRESENT, CONTROLS the PAST" George Orwell 1984
I don't know that I will ever live with another man. I don't know that I will ever get married again. I know that people that plan on getting married that live together aren't ruining their marriage by doing so. Perhaps those that live together before they finally decide to get married may be getting married to save their relationship and so the statistics show marriage after living together dooms the marriage. I don't know that I feel there is enough information about that. I think if you are going to live together you should get married, but that is just my opinion.
I do know that being a Christian doesn't make a marriage better or worse, but somehow more Christians divorce.
Today people are better educated, we have more at our disposal, and we have huge populations jammed in small areas. Crime, births, and deaths all rise. The divorce rate has dropped in the last 10 years.
I may never marry anyone (perform a marriage ceremony not as in my getting married but officiating), but if I ever do, I sure will ask them to make sure they know what they are getting into. And that does mean to check statistics as well as their hearts and their lives. There are no guarantees about health or mental illness, some factors we can't predict. Just like the future, we can only make educated guesses. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/8/2009 12:37:39 PM |
Like you, I taught my daughter by example and she's a great kid.. She was fortunate enough to grow up with two loving parents which of course helped. As I said before.. many boomers had two parent households.. but the example they were taught was of dysfunction.. many of those adult boomer children don't have the training or the education or the motivation to be good examples to their offspring and the cycle continues.
I don't know about you but somehow it's comforting to me to know that my children feel it's important to raise their children with values and morals passed on to them. Not because I oppressed them and MADE them adhere to those values, but because somehow they 'got' that some things are just wrong and some things are right. I hope for all of us that passing the right/wrong legacy down, doesn't go away as a 'trend'.
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/8/2009 12:43:49 PM | {quote]I don't know about you but somehow it's comforting to me to know that my children feel it's important to raise their children with values and morals passed on to them. Not because I oppressed them and MADE them adhere to those values, but because somehow they 'got' that some things are just wrong and some things are right. I hope for all of us that passing the right/wrong legacy down, doesn't go away as a 'trend' That's my point.. about the people I spoke of in my post that you've quoted. These people haven't had the legacy of right and wrong passed down to them.. It's common knowledge that many victims of child abuse (for instance) also abuse when they are adults. Many wife-beaters grow up to beat their wives.. many children of single mothers grow up to be single mothers themselves. etc. *make note that I say "many" not "all or most." Unless one of those types of people break the cycle.. through professional guidance or, through their own intestinal fortitude and self education.. then the cycle often continues ..
Edit to add: I agree with BS.. You bring value to the conversation. t.u. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/8/2009 12:45:29 PM | I do like your thoughful insights, renovationist..
We need more of that process on here and maybe turn a few heads. Thought is a great thing. It makes people ponder about what is important. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/9/2009 7:39:16 AM | It`s about time men get a chance to Stick it$$$$$$$$ to a women.
With this mentality, its not surprising so many relationships fail, people go in expecting it to and wondering how much they can fleece the other for, or worrying they might have to share "mutual" property or pay for their kids. Money is apparently more important than people.Materialism has ruined real values.Lack of responsibility has destroyed relationships.My Grandad would turn in his grave.What has happened to real men. There are a large percentage of women bringing up their kids themselves, with no financial help from the fathers and doing great jobs.Why do men think they should escape providing for their kids.If you dont want them, dont conceive them.A lot of it is spite because they were dumped.If the kids are not a partners then no he should not pay, if they are pay up and be a man and quit whining about it.Support your kids and have regular access, you are a parent all your life.It does not end with the divorce. I said it before, will say it again.I am not anyones test drive, I will not be anyones trial run.IMO women have lowered the bar way too much and jump through too many hoops for men.Their expectations of men and how they should be treated need raising. If a guy wants me to live with him, well the answer will be no, if he does not like it, he knows where the exit is.I will not lower my standards for anyone.  | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/9/2009 7:57:00 AM | Great Post, Brueja...stick to your guns. It is worth it.
As for the next one?
Yes you need a trial run or else you`ll be on POF for years singing the same tune.
YUP! Try to manipulate/ guilt a woman into submission by that threatening "or else" mantra that she will be an old maid, no-one wants her, a man will walk away BS if she doesn't.
Smart women don't fall for that. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/9/2009 8:10:12 AM | I think the best thing to do is live together before you get married and then after marriage live in separate houses, I mean at least you will have a neighbor(your wife) that you will like next door to you and in this situation the girl next door fantasy(your wife ) will actually make you cookies and brownies and even snuggle.... just as long as you mow her lawn for her!!! | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/9/2009 8:25:33 AM | Thank you for the compliment, B.S. . Like everyone, I have an opinion and have never been accused of holding it back.
One thing I find rather interesting about this entire thread is how it's brought out in all the posters a passion for beliefs - some shallow and logically stunted, some well-developed and grounded. From that, you can almost see who is 'mature enough' to even have a relationship!
We talk about test driving relationships rather than full blown commitments, etc. but the basis of a relationship gets overlooked sooo often. It's all about 'what you have to offer' vs. 'what's in your heart.' That to me is scary and I'm sure contributes greatly to the divorce rate worldwide, yet it doesn't get addressed at all - no one wants to admit to the inclusion of partnering with someone as a means to that end, yet it seems predominant in most profiles, if you read carefully.
One I read recently will continue to make me chuckle for a long time: "self-made millionaire looking for the last great love of my life." Hmm okay, I'm wondering what kind of women he'll attract with THAT caption! lol Ya suppose it will be someone who truly loves him - his last great true love? Uh huh, sure. But the whining over gold diggers responding just baffles him.
People keep referring to marriage as 'a piece of paper' but to me, it isn't that - the paper holds no value past the notary signature. It's what marriage symbolizes that holds meaning, and for those who equate it to a casual decision of living together out of convenience or because financially together each would have more spendable income, I'd just say, I'm sorry that you haven't had a good example to follow on that front. DO NOT MARRY under any circumstances!!!!!! Just shack up, that fits your situation better. Leave when you're tired of something little and insignificant.
I think (there's that opinion again) marriage is supposed to be "sacred" (does anyone use that word anymore?????), not logically based or because of convenience or greed. It's symbolic of commitment, love, hope, faith and caring - grounded in the spiritual belief that two hearts beat as one - not 'he likes to ride and so do i'. This is not to say a successful marriage can't happen unless people are religious - this is simply the origin of marriage (a sacrament if you will, though most won't know what that word means, I'm sure). I think it matters what you believe to be true and right, and finding a partner who believes as you do is key. "Believes as you do" has now gone from 'yes, i believe in you and love you and want to build a life WITH you" to "what toys do you have? how often do you go out? are you good in bed? how much money do you make?" UGH. There is a bigger picture that seems ignored for the most part these days. Reading profiles here is evidence of that.
And to the youngster who posted how he'd like to see women get 'taken' for a change, it happens every day. Again, the propaganda works both ways (equal rights, ratta ratta ratta). But ask any single mom who receives $500 a month in child support and has $3,000 a month in bills just how lucky she feels for 'taking' some guy in court for child support, which in 82% of divorces where there are children, is all that's awarded. Yeah, single moms are such con artists, pfft!
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/9/2009 8:45:29 AM | | Interesting opinions and comments posted.....Even though marriage when one is older often is not seen as something that is positive due to retirement benefits, health concerns, etc., I still wish to marry at some point in life. I try hard not to judge others and live by what is right for me, living with someome before marriage is just not in the picture for me. Although marriage is not a sacrament in my religion, my marriage vows would be said in a church before God and family and friends. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/9/2009 8:47:14 AM | I said it before, will say it again.I am not anyones test drive, I will not be anyones trial run.IMO women have lowered the bar way too much and jump through too many hoops for men.Their expectations of men and how they should be treated need raising. If a guy wants me to live with him, well the answer will be no, if he does not like it, he knows where the exit is.I will not lower my standards for anyone.
Ya, you said it before.....and you'll say it again.....and again.....and again.....and again.....
And it's perhaps why you may have difficulty interpreting the actions of those that don't take you up (acquiesce) on your offer of reluctance of sharing the sexual aspect of yourself, while demanding a life long commitment in a sexual relationship.
You're asking someone to sign on the dotted line, with zero evidence or knowledge of you sexually. Duh....
You don't need to keep saying it. People will get it the very first time. You view the sexual aspect of a "sexual relationship" as secondary, and not as an integral part of whether or not you are ultimately (lifetime) compatible with someone.
For others (both men AND women), it is integrally important, and one of the most important aspects in deciding who they commit to a life long "sexual relationship".
Personally, I might be one of the most "low maintenance" people to be in a relationship with. I have all my other wants, needs, desires fulfilled coming into the relationship. The bottom line is, I don't "need" any "one" person, but that I desire "one" person. If that "one" person has hang ups......then they're someone I am no longer interested in.
If you want to spin that into "I'm only looking for sex", then all you reveal is prejudice. You reveal that you think there is no emotional aspect to having sex with someone who "wants" to have sex with someone else.
I'm wanting a sexual relationship, not needing one.
Aren't I supposed to be "wanting" as opposed to "needing" someone? | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/9/2009 11:02:07 AM |
I'm wanting a sexual relationship, not needing one.
You said it.
And...we all know that living together before or after marriage doesn't make a coon's difference in whether the marriage survives.
It's all about whether you are cut out for marriage or not. Are you in shape mentally and emotionally for it? The physical is...well.... is a good part of that triangle ...but it only works long term (ED???) if the emotional and the intellectual are in place, too.
Basically, good sex, really good sex with each other is an expression of your true connection on all levels.
When you are lucky to have that with someone, yeah, you want to marry them, too. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/9/2009 12:01:33 PM |
Basically, good sex, really good sex with each other is an expression of your true connection on all levels.
When you are lucky to have that with someone, yeah, you want to marry them, too.
Very true! I don't think really good sex together is something that happens casually either, as what turns good sex into really really GOOD sex is loving each other and the dimension loving each other brings to the sex and visa versa. Hmm I wonder if the idea of reserving one's self for love/marriage might come from that truth. My guess it does!
Oh and B.S., you need new initials girl !! :) | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/9/2009 12:22:46 PM |
And...we all know that living together before or after marriage doesn't make a coon's difference in whether the marriage survives. Agreed!
It's all about whether you are cut out for marriage or not. Are you in shape mentally and emotionally for it? I'd say that most believe that they are mentally and emotionally ready when they get married.. However; by the stats its apparent that way too many aren't even when they think they are. Whether they co-habitated together or not prior to marrying makes little difference. PERIOD!
The physical is...well.... is a good part of that triangle ...but it only works long term (ED???) if the emotional and the intellectual are in place, too. Agreed.. but even when all those things are in place, somewhere along the line one or the other loses their ability to feel nuturing towards their partner and that is when the trouble begins. The trouble begins when one doesn't feel needed emotionally,or perhaps intellectually or perhaps physically, or perhaps all three. When things get off track in any of these areas and they aren't righted as soon as it's obvious, then a failed co-habitation or marriage will eventually happen.
Those that didn't or don't or won't try to right things .. well, they're the married/living together people who have an account on POF and are looking for one of the three things (possibly more) mentioned with someone else..
It is important for men to note (whether you like it/believe it or not.. that if you want a steady, reciprocally passionate sex life within a committed relationship that the emotional connection (bonding) has to be there. Most women crave this in order to enjoy and want sex. That is why players do so well.. they know how to engage a woman emotionally and intellectually and they use their skill and knowledge in order to receive a passionate experience from their sex partner(s)
IMO.. The bottom line is: That if you don't continuiously do relationaship maintenance on your marriage or your co-habitation then it doesn't matter one iota whether you ("lower yourself" *lmao* as one poster put it) and you co-habitate or, you take the path of marriage first ~ both dynamics will fail eventually. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/9/2009 4:27:39 PM |
meh!! I'm confused. If I really love this person then nothing or anyone is going to keep me away from them. If they're more comfortable living together before marriage then that's okay. I'm that way too but I gotta tell ya. When you're in love you'll do anything to make that person happy and they'll do the same for you.
So true Sans cuz your in love! When two hearts touch,it's all good....
That being said, for the op and the rest of bean counters, if ya you think your not
really,your not, and all the beans in the world won't change that. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/9/2009 4:35:19 PM | ^^^^Thank ya love for that but if I were single you would be mine..and I've taken the intermediate 'Stalker Class' so you would never, ever get away from me..hehe..
When you're in love you'll live with that person under a bridge or in a cardboard box just to be in their presence (with or without being married)...and how would I know that???? Don't ask!! lol..j/k.
Seriously, I've been single for 25 years. I've struggled for so long and kept my standards so high that no one could meet them..then I met the man of my dreams and as long as we're together then I don't give a rat's booty whether we're married or not. Just as long as I'm with him. When two hearts merge into one then everything and anyone else just fade into the background.
Sans | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/10/2009 7:51:53 AM | Why was the divorce rate much lower for our grandparents generation and beyond who did not typically live together much lower than todays divorce rate of 50% with living together being more common?
I think people who prayed together , stayed to gather,
Also there weren't all these dating sites where the grass looks a little greener,
That piece of paper meant something to them then, divorce was known as a sin, as being an unwed mother was,
It happened once and a while but today I don't believe people work at a relationship the way they used to.
Women were to be kept barefoot and pregnant not out in the world where there is now the opportunity to meet others,
Women were so busy raising families and helping their husbands to be successful, or help make a living, they felt their place was to be in the home..
Also it was a sin to live commonlaw.. | |
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| Would you live with someone you want to marry?
Posted: 6/10/2009 9:05:55 AM | there is ...commitment ..dah...or there is not... if you both have commitment to each other ,love each other, as well as i would think that GOD has placed it on Ur heart to be with each other...then you should know the answer....GOD does lead us in life if we only listen 4 his direction.
HAVE A VERY BLESSED DAY..PEACE OUT 2 ALL.. | |
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