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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:01:12 AM | I would love for my country bring in the death penalty for a number of reasons, perhaps it might even deter the sickest of criminals commiting an act that justifys the death penalty in my eyes, which would be a peidophile, rapist, murderer of any kind.
i think they deserve to be put underground and sent hells way, people go on about how they should feel remorse for what they have done by spending a lifetime in jail wake up will you these people havent got an ounce of sympathy in them so i don't think remorse is very high on there agenda certainly not with the 5* star room service they get they havent got time for such a momment.
i think somone touched on the cost of putting someone down by lethal injection or what have you. you might think im being a bit extreme but why not just do a weekly killing as in get all the convicted in one line for that entire week and shoot them. it costs very little for a 5.56 im sure.
And now that we have got plenty of room for other no gooders smaller sentences for petty crimes will be doubled etc etc. im going to stop there because i can see unlimited amount of good things that would come from brining the death sentence back. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/7/2009 6:01:36 AM | I feel that the death penalty is nothing more than sating some biblical need for revenge. I'm sure the people the person killed don't give a damn if he's executed or not - because they're DEAD.
Sending some dude to the proverbial gas chamber aint gonna bring their victims back.
"I need closure" is a euphamism for "I want revenge."
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/7/2009 12:54:24 PM | I am all for the death penalty.
Economically, a speedy but fair trial process followed switfly by whatever appeals are possible, followed by a short stay on the row and then lethal injection, would be a LOT cheaper than keeping people in jail for life.
Religiously, it is no secret that the death penatly existed in biblical times, and there is nothing in the bible saying it is wrong, in fact, it was established for many crimes.
I see no reason not to have a death penalty. Who cares if it deters crime or not? It is cheaper, and it's not like it's a suprise."What, you mean, I can be killed for killing someone, NO WAY?!"
Really now. Lets just save money and overcrowded prison issues and kill 'em when they commit an offense worthy of death (In my state, that is the rape of someone under 12, IIRC, or the taking of another's life, pre-meditated). (After due process of course!) | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:08:00 PM | I say go back to public executions. Stop the endless appeals and get it over with. And quit putting them to sleep. A decent firing squad or a strong rope.
The death penalty makes sense. It states that life is so precious that if you destroy one person's life. You need to pay with your own. People who oppose the death penalty don't seem to respect life much. Most I have talked to have no problem with the slaughter of children for convienience this society sickengly calls a choice. But thier hearts bleed for people who kill and rape. Too me that is warped.
Public executions would serve as a deterent | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:39:50 PM |
Public executions would serve as a deterent
Well there are a variety of opinions running pro and con to this...I suggest reading them and forming your own opinion.
Of all places, this was posted to Free Republic...
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 7  38 AM by Enemy Of The State Death penalty lacks moral ground by Ben 'Mouse' McShane April 02, 2003 Last week, I showed how the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent and does not make fiscal sense. Now, let's look at the moral aspect. The most common argument favoring the death penalty is serving justice. Killing the man may keep him from murdering someone else in the future, but the death penalty is unnecessary to protect citizens from dangerous criminals. Executing the murderer is not necessary for justice to be served. If a man serves a life-without-parole sentence in a maximum-security, solitary confinement prison, he will never murder another man again. He will not be able to vote. He will not be free. His right to live freely will be revoked. He will never harm another. The sanctity of human life will be preserved. Why then do we still execute our murderers? To serve on abstract concept called "justice"? Many supporters will tell you the death penalty is for the families of the victims. Nowhere in our Constitution or our laws does it state that the job of the government is to exact revenge for private citizens. To kill a man because he is a murderer, in order to satisfy the victim's family's wishes, is revenge. It is to make the victim's family feel better -- a gruesome, barbaric consolation prize for their tragedy. This is little more than expensive, state-sponsored revenge. Even if the death penalty were not amoral, and even if the idea was supported in our Constitution, the system we use to determine who lives and who dies is biased and corrupt. Fact: For interracial murders since 1976 that resulted in a death sentence, 178 of the cases involved a white victim and a black defendant. Twelve cases involved a black victim and a white defendant. Fact: 80 percent of all capital cases involve white victims, although only 50 percent of all murder victims are white. The U.S. General Accounting Office summed it up in 1990 when it reported, "In 82 percent of the studies [reviewed]... those who murdered whites were found more likely to be sentenced to death than those who murdered blacks." The experts are acknowledging the facts: Our death sentencing system is racist. Other prejudices exist within our "justice" system. Damien Echols, one of the famed "West Memphis Three," is currently on death row for his alleged part in a brutal triple-homicide of three young boys. The shocking thing is, not one piece of physical evidence links Echols to the crime scene. Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley wore black clothes and listened to Metallica. The only evidence linking Echols to the crime is a coerced confession from Jessie Misskelley, who was interrogated for 12 hours without representation before he confessed. Only the last 45 minutes of the interrogation were documented. Experts testified that Misskelley was coerced into lying about the murder. Photographic documentation shows a baseball bat in the corner of the room. Misskelley has an IQ of 72, is mildly retarded and did not understand what was happening around him during the interrogation. If you wish to be shocked even more, you can read "Devil's Knot" by Mara Leveritt and learn the West Memphis Police Department's shady investigation methods. Unless true justice stumbles it way through, Damien Echols will die for three murders despite the lack of hard evidence. A dangerously imperfect system of bias and corruption has chosen his fate. You can't un-kill a person. If our nation abolished the death penalty, the consequences of the system's imperfections would not be a matter of life-and-death. Brutal murderers could still be punished and kept off the streets. True justice would be served.
And here http://www.religioustolerance.org/execut4.htm
http://www.aclu.org/capital/general/10441pub19971231.html
http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/DeterrentEffect.htm
http://www.abolishdeathpenalty.org/WCADPTalkingPoints.htm
Those who attempt to use a Biblical justification however, for capital punishment, are sadly misinformed as to the actual nature of Jewish Law. This is likely due to the lack of actual knowledge of Jewish Law promulgated in Christian teaching...until recently even I was unaware of the actual nature of execution as practiced by the Jewish courts to be correct according to the Oral Law and the absolute rarity of capital punishment in practice and necessity of unimpeachable evidence of guilt required before an execution could take place. As well the actual execution methods are not as one might imagine but have to be performed according to Levitical Law to be as humane as possible to cause instant death.
http://www.jlaw.com/Briefs/capital2.html
Capital punishment is a penalty prescribed by Biblical law for the commission of offenses that violate ritual prohibitions (such as deliberate desecration of the Sabbath) as well as laws regarding interpersonal relationships (murder, kidnapping, incest). The Biblical text explicitly specifies two forms of execution: stoning (Exodus 17:4, 8:22; Numbers 14:10) and burning (Leviticus 20:14, 21:9). The oral tradition includes two additional means -- strangulation and decapitation.
Although the Biblical text appears to contemplate frequent imposition of capital punishment, the weight of authority among rabbis of the Mishnaic period (1st-3rd centuries of the Common Era), who first committed to writing what had theretofore been transmitted from generation to generation as the Oral Law, clearly condemned frequent executions. The Mishna2 in the tractate Makkoth (7a) declared:
The Sanhedrin3 that executes one person in seven years is called "murderous." Rabbi Elazar ben Azariah says that this extends to one execution in seventy years. Rabbi Tarfon and Rabbi Akiva say, "If we had been among the Sanhedrin, no one would ever have been executed." Rabbi Simon ben Gamliel responds, "Such an attitude would increase bloodshed in Israel."
This exchange among rabbis living in the first and second centuries reflects differences over the deterrent value of capital punishment that continue among legal scholars to this day. Some rabbis of the Mishnaic period (such as Rabbis Tarfon and Akiva) were unwilling to participate in a process that would take human life, while other rabbis (like Rabbi Simon ben Gamliel) believed that capital punishment had a deterrent effect that permitted it to be employed.
The infrequency of the death penalty was attributable to the meticulous application of stringent rules regarding the admissibility and sufficiency of evidence. A court of at least 23 judges would have to be satisfied, to a legal certainty, that the capital offense had been committed before the court could impose a death sentence. Since the testimony of two eye-witnesses was required, and the witnesses were subjected to searching and detailed interrogation by the court, there was rarely an instance when the evidence met the prescribed legal standard. See Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Book of Judges, Sanhedrin, chapter XII4.
By Talmudic prescription and the rulings of Jewish-law codifiers through Maimonides, the particular form of execution to be administered under Jewish law depended upon the nature of the offense. Each of these forms, however, had to be administered in the most humane manner possible.
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:50:10 PM | “For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death’” (Matthew 15:4).
Paul says in Acts 25:11, “If I am a wrongdoer, and have committed anything worthy of death, I do not refuse to die; but if none of these things is true of which these men accuse me, no one can hand me over to them.” He both affirms capital statutes and accepts them as binding on him if he has broken one.
Revelation 13:10, “If any one is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if any one kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.”
Genesis 9:6 (New American Standard Bible)
Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.
From beginning to end, capital punishment is supported by the Bible. This is not about Jewish law but rather the spiritual rightness/wrongness of the death-penalty, and in my humble opinion, it is an open and shut case. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:13:19 PM | This is a tough one. I always used to be opposed to the death penalty under all circumstances for humanitarian reasons. But then I started reading about terrible crimes and wondered if certain people hadn't forfeited their right to be here.
However, working in the field of wrongful convictions has led me to believe that there are far too many people on death row who don't belong there. Very large numbers of people have been released within the last 10 years alone based on hard DNA evidence.
Until we become completely error-free in our prosecutions, I can't support the death penalty although if I were part of a family of a murder victim, I bet that I would see it quite differently. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/7/2009 8:06:22 PM | i am for the death penality. which is funny because i have human rights on my interests. i am canadian the death penality was removed on 1962...according to my father, i would like to see it reinstated. these sickos who hurt kids, kill people and show absolutely no remourse. i have a hard enough time having my tax dollars to go to the resources that benefit me, like transit that gets me to work on time. i do not need to finanace these creepshows who kill their kids so they can stay in jail with cable tv, three meals and shelter from the chaos outside the concrete that they added to. i am not the extremist "kill'em all and let god sort 'em out" with the dna and forensic to precisely pinpoint a guilty conviction to these people who are serial offenders what addition are they making to humans? a screaming example of what not to do? if a few of these looney tunes paid the ultimate price for their crimes do you think it would enstill more fear in the justice system and make others think twice before commiting a crime. this is not a blanket solution. just inject everyone who walks though the prison doors. i'd say 99 of 100 offenders are able to feel the fear and wrong they did. and able to feel remorse and heal. but thta 1 person who thinks it's totally ok to touch kids, kill people with rituals and just barbaric meaningless sacrifice? what can the justice system offer them? 'well mr. creepshow, you spent 6 years stalking women in your neighborhood and doing horrific things, we got ya dead to rights. now, you just sit in this 4X8 concrete room and think about what you did" when i was a kid and got caught breaking into an abandonned house in the neighborhood, my parents grounded me for the summer, and tanned my tail. that was about 15 years ago and i haven't brokena law since. there is a continued uprise in youth crime too because of that absurd babysitting justice system we call "the young offenders act" reinstate the death penality and abolish the youth offenders act, pick off a few freakshows who really really really have it coming and youth crime will decline. we won't have any sickos left in our generation and we won't be breeding new ones either. it's win-win.
mouse
ps, i apologize in advance for the lousy spelling. i sliced the top of my finger off at work chopping onions, the stitches are making my hand numb and hard to type. 10 more days of this. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/7/2009 8:17:55 PM | There is still a very big issue involved with advocating for the death penalty : culpabiilty. Do we have the right person ?
It has happened far too often that people innocent of a crime have been executed in retribution for it. I have no problem at all with the idea of executing certain individuals for their crimes but I want to know that it's the right person getting the needle (chair , rope...whatever) That really doesn't happen too often.
It's not just a matter of feeling sorry for some low-life who , for once , didn't actually do the crime he/she is accused of. More importantly , if we haven't got the right person then that means the real criminal is still wandering around looking for the next victim. Furthermore , not all people who wind up on death row were necessarily low-lifes. Often enough , in the worst cases , the authorities grab hold of anything just to put the matter to rest. This results in people who have lead normal , law-abiding lives to wind up facing execution. It happens. It will continue to happen because that's just the way people are.
Many people who disagree with the death penalty don't do it because they care about the life of some scumbag. What they care about is making sure it's the scumbag strapped in when the appeals are exhausted. I would happily throw the switch on somebody like Paul Bernardo (and Mrs. Teal for that matter) because these guys practically did the cops' job for them. We're sure they did it. Even Pickton's case leaves enough room for doubt that I couldn't advocate for his execution. If he's the guilty party , I can think of no Canadian more deserving of a slow , cruel death purely for the satisfaction of seeing him suffer (and no , I have no problem admitting that either) but for as unlikely and implausible as his defense is/was , there's still the remote possibility that it's the truth. We just don't know with him although we can be as certain as necessary for a conviction and resulting prison sentance. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/8/2009 2:16:56 PM |
I say go back to public executions
wow, so what your dream vacation would be to go to Iran and see a stoning, or maybe Iraq where you could see a hanging, hey you could do a tour of countries and see different public executions in each- hey a trip for the family
People who oppose the death penalty don't seem to respect life much.
what an interesting opinion-
do you have any issue at all with the fact that many on death row have not done the crime that they have been "convicted" of
DNA has overturned many cases-
look sir, at the face of one that YOU would have gladly condemned to die WRONGLY-
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/20/weekinreview/20conway.html
it is for that reason, that I am against capital punishment AND respect life
“For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death’” (Matthew 15:4).
and to Bible quoting man, the Bible can support ANYTHING YOU want it to-
just find the "right" verse and run with it-
I could find you horrible things that the Bible supposedly supports- using verses
From beginning to end, capital punishment is supported by the Bible. This is not about Jewish law but rather the spiritual rightness/wrongness of the death-penalty, and in my humble opinion, it is an open and shut case.
oh really?
then explain the commandment "thou shalt not kill"
"open and shut case"
tell that to the families of those that have been sentenced to death for a crime they never committed~ | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/8/2009 3:54:21 PM | We kill people who kill to prove that killing is wrong.
I don't agree with the death penalty because too many innocent people can die. Look at Dr Hawley Crippen who recently was found to be innocent. Also Timothy Evans.
Prosecutors want a conviction & police want the case closed & I don't think there is enough integrity in the world to care in all cases whether someone is truly guilty or not.
I actually think making a killer do hard labour for the rest of his life 14 hours/day is far worse than executing him. If the proof is irrefutable, I mean. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/8/2009 4:25:53 PM | i firmly disagree with the death penalty because it makes the law contradict itself. someone has to adminster the lethal injection. someone has to flip that switch to carry out an execution. whoever that person is, doesn't that make them a murderer? regardless of if it's their job, it's not self defense. they're not soldiers defending freedom. they're committing murder via a court ruling that in some cases isn't proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. that gives them justification cuz it's the law and they're getting paid to do it? to kill, regardless of guilt? this ain't medieval times but sometimes it appears that way.
i absolutely believe the people that do that for a living enjoy it. they're what i call the smart ones. you know you have a facination with killing, why not do it legally? why not work your way up to that position, a legit profession where you get paid to kill people legally? do you think you could administer death upon another person? it takes a very specific type of person to do something like that.
that's what prisons are for. to punish the guilty. no matter how barbaric the crime, an eye for an eye shouldn't be factored into any court of law but always is by the simple existence of the death penalty. i have to assume it brings closure to the victims' families cuz the offender no longer exists, therefore they can't commit anymore crimes. death penalty is based on severity of crime. but killing to avenge the killed makes those that pass that brand of justice no better than the person being sentenced. they should sentence themselves if that's the case cuz they're killers too. | |
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pgem
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Joined: 5/20/2009
Msg: 93 | |
| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/9/2009 10:55:08 PM | Many people commit crimes of all kinds, but the up most severe crimes that have cold hard facts should end in death after waiting a few years on death row. I think of the victims that suffer a life time that these criminals have inflicted on them.
I use to think that prison could make a person see their wrong doings and maybe change them, but the more people I see go in and come out of prison they are worse off. They have made more connections, learned better ways to do a crime, and their mentality has changed. Their may be some that prison has changed and that is great but I have really not seen anything positive come out of it. So if they are using prison for rehabilitation, I think they better come up with a new way.
Maybe if we did more of the death penalty or done what they did in the olden days of stoning we wouldn't have the crime rate we do.
I had a guy tell me the other day "heck I don't mind going to jail, at least I get to eat 3 meals, have a quiet place to sleep and get to watch some tv, and talk to some of my buddies." | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/10/2009 6:32:09 AM | I do not understand american politics haha don't hold that against me!
It would be really hard for me to say that I believe in the death penalty because killing someone for them killing other humans is just wrong because that person who did that should have to live with the guilt of what he/she did.
BUT then again these people will be locked up forever and using taxpayers dollars to stay alive. Im still on the fence about this one | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/10/2009 6:50:33 AM |
i firmly disagree with the death penalty because it makes the law contradict itself. someone has to adminster the lethal injection. someone has to flip that switch to carry out an execution. whoever that person is, doesn't that make them a murderer?
No. The executioner is an agent of The State, And the State is allowed to execute a criminal as long as the state provide Due Process to the person in his legal precedings.
The Consttutions 14th amendment, sec 1...
... No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
***Meaning if the state provides "Due Process" a person can lose their life.
...........................................
and for all you that quote Bible passages..."Eye for an Eye", save it for sunday school. There no Justification for the Death Penalty used from the Bible. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/10/2009 7:32:37 AM | | yes i would have to agree the problem here in australia they dont have it here as the laws are so soft here but america philipines hongkong bali they have the death penalty and they should bring thtat law here in australia | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:06:00 AM |
Maybe if we did more of the death penalty or done what they did in the olden days of stoning we wouldn't have the crime rate we do.
actually, stricter punishment has done very little to deter crime. being more relaxed in what is considered a criminal offense is the solution to jail/prison overcrowding. understanding the types and severity of a crime would ease the burden too. i'll ask all of you the very same question i ask people when i debate this issue with real people: who would you rather have as a neighbor: a murderer or an email spammer? a rapist or a con artist? a carjacker or a money launderer?
shuts 'em up every time. violent crime is different from non-violent crime and these people shouldn't be incarcerated together. should bernie madoff have to share a cell with say, btk? i don't think so. i wouldn't even incracerate non-violent offenders (child sex offenders excluded) in the same fashion as violent ones. yes, they deserve punishment but they didn't injure or kill anyone or destroy property. but that's just how i see things. as far as severity of crimes, so you got a spliff, so you cussed at a cop, so you're a prostitute, etc. no one is being hurt physically, nothing is being damaged, do they really gotta take up jail space that we pay for? i don't think so. you can **** yourself up all you want, but if you ain't hurtin' nobody else, it ain't necessary.
No. The executioner is an agent of The State, And the State is allowed to execute a criminal as long as the state provide Due Process to the person in his legal precedings.
i sort of acknowledged that but i still don't agree with it. the executioner is still a murderer. a smart one, but still a murderer. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:01:48 AM |
It would be really hard for me to say that I believe in the death penalty because killing someone for them killing other humans is just wrong because that person who did that should have to live with the guilt of what he/she did.
The only problem with this is that most people who go around killing people have no remorse about it. Sure, the person who kills someone in a fit of rage or passion - may feel some remorse. But maybe not.
I think poverty is the core problem with all crime. How many millionaires do you see killing people & committing crimes(White collar crime excepted). Yes, there are fewer millionaires/billionaires in the world so crimes by them will be lower but based on percentages I'd bet it's still much lower.
I think learning a skilled trade or profession should be mandatory for all prisoners who are doing hard time and will one day be released. If they fail or refuse to study then their release date gets moved back. To just warehouse them with no skills to make a living is foolish & may cost more than the cost of educating them. I know many will baulk at paying for their educations but it's the lesser of two evils.
The experts are acknowledging the facts: Our death sentencing system is racist.
Other prejudices exist within our "justice" system. Damien Echols, one of the famed "West Memphis Three," is currently on death row for his alleged part in a brutal triple-homicide of three young boys.
The shocking thing is, not one piece of physical evidence links Echols to the crime scene. Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley wore black clothes and listened to Metallica.
The only evidence linking Echols to the crime is a coerced confession from Jessie Misskelley, who was interrogated for 12 hours without representation before he confessed. Only the last 45 minutes of the interrogation were documented.
Experts testified that Misskelley was coerced into lying about the murder. Photographic documentation shows a baseball bat in the corner of the room. Misskelley has an IQ of 72, is mildly retarded and did not understand what was happening around him during the interrogation.
If you wish to be shocked even more, you can read "Devil's Knot" by Mara Leveritt and learn the West Memphis Police Department's shady investigation methods.
Unless true justice stumbles it way through, Damien Echols will die for three murders despite the lack of hard evidence. A dangerously imperfect system of bias and corruption has chosen his fate.
This is why there must be no capital punishment. As I said in an earlier post, it has happened that innocent people have been executed. I think it's an immoral disgrace that those 3 boys are on deathrow when the authorities don't know for sure they are guilty. They just don't know - yet the police & the legal system are perfectly fine condemning them to death! If they had to stand in front of a God and declare that those three are 100% guilty and risk painful death if wrong - they couldn't do it.
I believe Illinois has scrapped capital punishment because of all the DNA exonerations! Some may then say 'the system worked,' but not really, they never should have been charged/convicted in the first place. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:07:24 AM | The 2008 Florida Statutes
782.04 Murder.--
(1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:
Since Florida allows for a Death Sentance, and The Constitution allows States to preform executions, this is Legal and not in the legal sence murder.
In your Heart you may feel this is murder, but we dont write laws based on your feelings. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:33:08 AM |
Since Florida allows for a Death Sentance, and The Constitution allows States to preform executions, this is Legal and not in the legal sence murder.
In your Heart you may feel this is murder, but we dont write laws based on your feelings.
That is just human semantics. Because this group of humans decide that 'that' isn't murder and that other group decide that 'this' is murder is decided by human beings.
Laws may not be based on feelings but they are acted upon with feelings by flawed human beings in society, police, and prosecutors. Far too many innocent people have found themselves on deathrow. Just imagine over the centuries how many innocent people have been executed.
At best, capital punishment is state sanctioned revenge and at worst state sanctioned murder. | |
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