| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/2/2009 3:32:00 PM | unless you live in Godmerica, what does god have to do with your States Penal code?
What humans don't have the power to do is send a person to hell.
There is nothing about sending a person to Hell in the Texas Penal Code...Where he go after facing Justice is up to him. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/2/2009 3:44:06 PM |
unless you live in Godmerica, what does god have to do with your States Penal code?
It is more common than not for individuals to base their opinions on their overall belief system, and faith is often a part of that. God is relevant because it's an opinion, not because of the topic of the opinion. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/2/2009 4:07:48 PM |
It is more common than not for individuals to base their opinions on their overall belief system, and faith is often a part of that. God is relevant because it's an opinion, not because of the topic of the opinion.
faith is one thing but god is a seperate entity altogether. so for someone to throw god into the mix generally means that they don't have their own valid opinions. god forms their opinions, not themselves, when they have to include that. and that generally makes their opinions invalid cuz it's not their own if that makes sense. like this discussion is about the death penalty. it's clear when someone's rhetoric is lacking that they play the god card due to their lack of debating skills. all the god references mean nothing because it's irrelevant to the topic at hand. SAguy is simply refuting those invalid arguments and I'm with him on that. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/2/2009 4:17:11 PM | so for someone to throw god into the mix generally means that they don't have their own valid opinions. Either that or they simply express themselves differently then you do. Making such assumptions in a casual conversation seems to be a bit bullying, IMO. Try taking others' thoughts and opinions at face value instead of suggesting inferiority (or worse, that their opinions aren't valid simply because they are not expressed as you would prefer.) | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/2/2009 4:24:16 PM |
Either that or they simply express themselves differently then you do. Making such assumptions in a casual conversation just as this seems to be a bit bullying, IMO. Try taking others' thoughts and opinions at face value instead of suggesting inferiority (or worse, that their opinions aren't valid simply because they are not expressed as you would prefer.)
i respect everyone's opinion and i never take anything at face value unless i have to. i never think anyone or their opinions are inferior to my own either. some things you have to accept as they are. i think we can agree on that. in this case, i have to accept the opinions of people who can't express themselves fully. i don't agree with it or the god complex; and those particular opinions are invalid to me cuz they're not expressive of the individual but rather the god that they created in their own mind. but i do accept them. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/2/2009 4:28:13 PM | | I think for a lot of people the issue is more a matter of fairness. I'm all for the death penalty when it is administered fairly. Legal representation plays a role with that. As well as the judicial branch within states and countries. DNA evidence and more advanced technologies available now improves upon a system that didn't get it right for some in the system. It is interesting how forensic scientist are coming up with new ways to identify criminals. But I think even so fairness is going to be paramount. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/2/2009 4:31:15 PM |
i respect everyone's opinion... i don't agree with it or the god complex; and those particular opinions are invalid to me cuz they're not expressive of the individual but rather the god that they created in their own mind. but i do accept them.
You respect everyone's opinion AND some opinions are invalid to you AND you accept them? C'mon now.
No one is asking you to agree with another's opinion.
What exactly does it mean if someone else's opinion is "invalid" to you? That certainly doesn't line up with respect. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/2/2009 5:36:21 PM |
What exactly does it mean if someone else's opinion is "invalid" to you? That certainly doesn't line up with respect.
allow me to explain. an invalid opinion is one that has no merit. like when i was unemployed, a friend of mine kept telling me to go to job fairs and kept on hyping the opportunities that are there, how i'd increase my odds of getting a job, that he respects those that take the time to attend rather than sitting at home on their ass doing nothing or collecting an easy paycheck from the government and shit like that.
problem is, he's never once in his damn life ever been to a job fair. in addition, he's been employed throughout this whole economic crisis and therefore has no clue about employment trends cuz he admits he doesn't stay on top of those things. yet he's trying to give me advice.
all he knew of job fairs was what he saw in newspaper and internet ads and local tv news reports. he had no real world, hands-on, personal experience with them. but i do, although in the past. being unemployed, for me, meant having no choice but to stay up on trends and networking. i'm gainfully employed again through my own efforts, never attending a job fair since my previous experience with them and personal knowledge, and negative things i've heard from others. so even though his opinion is completely and totally invalid, i have no choice but to respect and accept it cuz that's his opinion. what you call taking it at face value. i can try to change someone's mind but it's up to the individual to decide what's fact from fiction. and he still promotes and believes in job fairs. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/2/2009 5:39:30 PM |
allow me to explain. an invalid opinion is one that has no merit. When you apply "no merit" to an opinion, it simply means that you disagree... although it's a condescending way of expressing your disagreement. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/2/2009 5:45:33 PM |
When you apply "no merit" to an opinion, it simply means that you disagree... although it's a condescending way of expressing your disagreement.
no merit means exactly that: no merit. would you ask for fishing advice from someone you know has never gone fishing before? if they gave you advice, and you knew they had no clue what the hell they were talking about, would it still hold weight? you'd have to ACCEPT it cuz that's what they're giving you. You even have to RESPECT it cuz they tried, even if they make no sense. their opinion and advice has no merit in this situation. you neither agree nor disagree. you just take it for what it is and filter out what you feel is worthy and discard what's not. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/3/2009 5:04:19 PM | The judicial system is imperfect; eyewitnesses, over zealous prosecutors, sub par defense attorneys and juries, all capable of mistakes. Wrongful convictions are not isolated events. The death penalty is archaic and has shown time and time again to not decrease violent crime. What kind of civilized society kills its' citizens? | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/3/2009 5:44:17 PM |
After finding her husband or boyfriend in bed with another woman, Karla took a pick-axe to them. While spending 2 decades on death row she had a religious conversion. Unlike many so called "conversions" this one seemed to be real. Everyone who knew her said she was a completely different person than the one who did the crime. Many religious leaders including the Pope tried to convince Bush not to execute her. Instead Bush went on the radio and mocked her pleas for mercy before he had her executed as planned.
I hadn't read this story but I'll say that there is a difference between heat of passion between spouse which would amount to voluntary manslaughter in several states. And committing the crime when planned. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/3/2009 7:20:08 PM |
The judicial system is imperfect; eyewitnesses, over zealous prosecutors, sub par defense attorneys and juries, all capable of mistakes. Wrongful convictions are not isolated events. The death penalty is archaic and has shown time and time again to not decrease violent crime. What kind of civilized society kills its' citizens?
An imperfect society which strives to provied eash citizen the rights to live and enjoy the fruits of their labor in peace. A society of Laws, that must at times, exact justice from those who deny citizens of their rights of Life, Liberty and Property. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/3/2009 7:27:29 PM | DNA evidence has changed forever how we should view the death penalty.
All states death penalty records should be reviewed for DNA exoneration and IF even one person has been murdered by the state for a crime they didn't commit, then the death penalty should be abolished in that state. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/3/2009 10:51:44 PM |
What kind of civilized society kills its' citizens?
An imperfect society which strives to provied eash citizen the rights to live and enjoy the fruits of their labor in peace. A society of Laws, that must at times, exact justice from those who deny citizens of their rights of Life, Liberty and Property. oh for god's sakes you sound like you are trying to make the death penalty - patriotic
I expect my country to exact justice from those who break laws but at no time do I expect my country to take away the life of one of its citizens
most of the democracies of the world have outlawed the death penalty most of the civilized world has outlawed the death penalty | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/4/2009 6:00:41 AM | Any government condoned killing, is still killing. Whether under the shield of the criminal justice system or not. Civilized people do not extract justice by killing. Calling it "The Death Penalty" is just an attempt to make it easier to swallow. And why are so many people who are vehemently against abortion in support of the death penalty? How does one justify killing in any form? | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/4/2009 8:02:18 AM |
you sound like you are trying to make the death penalty - patriotic
The 5th Amendmen to the U.S. Constitution-
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/4/2009 2:03:41 PM | ^^^^ and the 8th ammendment-
"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
I call the death penalty "cruel and unusual punishment"
the history of our nation included enslaving blacks and Indians women not always having the right to vote demonstrates that this country is always evolving it is about time that we evolve past the death penalty
but as long as people justify it ignore the fact that too many are falsely accused of crimes they didn't commit that our justice system is still not blind to race or economic level we will still quote the 5th ammendment as an excuse to kill our own citizens | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/4/2009 3:45:02 PM |
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
I call the death penalty "cruel and unusual punishment"
the 5th allows the death as a penalty along as Due Process is applied, the 8th says punishmnet not to be cruel unusual...
each addresses a separate issue. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/4/2009 5:25:51 PM | Well, this last week I have decided to broaden my horizons in POF and post in various forums. I was getting kind of down because the only ones I found interesting are in other countries and they have some posting rule about staying in your own local area to post. Now THAT is antiquated, hypocritical, politically incorrect, biased, one-sided favoring if I ever saw it. I wonder what brain thought that one up. The best part is that those people can post wherever they like because only a very few forums here have that rule. Also, everywhere on here says do a thread search, so you do a thread search, you get into one of those BS rule forums, you post and then get banned for posting when you only got there by following the rules...So typical
Now, I do not see where any opinion about the death penalty is political, or at least it shouldn't be any more political except for the law that has to pass to allow or disallow it. The death penalty is purely a social issue.
You say that the only reason you are now against it is because you respect God, well brother, you are going to have to do some learning about God, because He is the one who created the death penalty, not man. I am not saying man didn't kill, but God made it a LAW. Get out you Bible and turn to Leviticus 20, for starters.
In this day there are all sorts of "new information" coming forth saying that God did not mean "put to death" as in kill the body, he meant convince the person they are wrong so that the sin is put to death; OR God did not mean homosexuality/beastiality/incest is a sin, He just meant it is too easy to become lax in your cleanliness. I hear these everytime I hear ANY religious conversation now, in church, on tv, at school, etc... My opinion? YEAH, RIGHT!
A person has the right to choose and I defend his/her right, but let it fall to me to have dealings with the situation and I am going to uphold the laws of God to the fullest THIS countries laws allow me. God will not judge me for not purposefully putting myself in harms way if my country does not allow me to uphold His law, but think about this next time you think on this subject...You live in a nation that has made laws that do not allow you to follow many of God's laws and it is getting worse all of the time.
I am not saying we should be able to kill people at will for sinning, God made many provisions which are not in Leviticus 20, so it is important to know ALL of His word. For instance, God requires a consensus, like a jury today, witnesses and proof, not just someone crying against another person. God also had the nation of Israel set up "Safe Cities," Joshua 20 1-9. These were established just in case the person commited a deadly sin by accident, or was falsely accused and couldn't prove it. If the person could quickly get away and make it to a safe city, then he/she couldn't be touched. The details God gave for deciding whether a person was to be put to death and the way it should be conducted, as in touching their head and looking into their face close up, makes it pretty darn hard to actually lie in a way that you know will take a persons life, even when the accusation is true. Check out Leviticus 24:10-23. Here is a quote from someone else who said it well...
The original statute pertaining to the subject was, "Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made He man" (Gen. 9:6). There is nothing whatever "Jewish" about that injunction, for it was given centuries before the nation of Israel had any existence. It needs emphasizing today that capital punishment as the penalty for murder was ordained by God Himself long before the giving of the Mosaic law, and, since it has never been repealed by Him, that precept is binding until the end of time. It is important to observe that the reason for this law is not here based upon the well-being of human society, but is grounded upon the fact that man is made "in the image of God." That expression has a twofold significance; a natural and a moral—the moral image of God (inherent holiness) was lost at the fall, but the natural still exists, as is clear from 1 Corinthians 11:7, and James 3:9. Thus, the primary reason why it is sinful to slay a man is because he is made in the image of God. "To deface the king’s image is a sort of treason among men, implying a hatred against him, and that if he himself were within reach, he would be served in the same manner. How much more heinous, then, must it be to destroy, curse, oppress, or in any way abuse the image of the King of kings!" http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Gleanings_Joshua/joshua_18.htm
It is important to know the word/law and to know the WHOLE WORD/LAW. I am sure someone here will say that the Old Testament is dead and only the New Testament is to be followed and it says that we are to forgive. Well WRONG on both counts. Jesus says He came to fulfill the law (Old Testament) and the Prophets (Old Testament), not to destroy them, Matthew 5:17 and other places. He also said that we are not to judge and to love your enemy, that is often mistakenly taken to mean not to hold them to the law. It doesn't mean let them get away with things and forgive. It means do not hold judgement and hate in your heart, just do your duty (follow the law) concerning others, pray for them and move on, keeping your main focus on your own life, not on others lives any more than you need to.
So, the Law of this Land allows the death penalty in some states. Am I for it? If the evidence is overwhelming that the person did the crime and it is punishable by death, then absolutely YES. So few ever get it and the crimes are unspeakable when they do, but how many that have raped and murdered children, or a man or woman for that matter, have actually ever gotten the death penalty? It is pretty rare. The equal crime is the millions we spend letting them laze around getting better food and healthcare than SO MANY people who never hurt anyone.
Correct the social understanding and then the politicians will correct the law. Not the other way around.
SS | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/4/2009 6:46:30 PM |
the 5th allows the death as a penalty along as Due Process is applied, the 8th says punishmnet not to be cruel unusual...
each addresses a separate issue. uhhhhhhhhh NO! they can both be used and are used to address the death penalty | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/13/2009 9:20:41 PM |
I wouldnt consider ourselves Civilized if we do away with Death as a Penalty. I would consider ourselves Civilized when we as a people stop Kinapping, raping, and Killing our children...Or stop killing in cold blood our Law enforcment Officers...Or robbng and killing a store Owner over 12 Dollars.
How do you feel about the many innocent people that have been put to death via mistakes even in the days of genetic evidence. Shortly before the election, Illinois suspended the death sentence because the discovered 10 innocent people were executed. That is why I am against it. You can never be 100% sure in all cases. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality? Posted: 8/14/2009 7:18:41 AM | Considering the number of times God sanctioned war in the Old Testament, I believe that "Thall shalt not kill" is meant to be "Thou shalt not commit murder".
http://www.learnthebible.org/would-jesus-oppose-the-death-penalty.html
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