| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/15/2009 5:41:07 PM |
I'm firmly opposed to the death penalty. Frankly, the posters who say they're generally opposed, but the heinousness of a crime makes them waver, scare me a great deal too, and not just the criminals.
I once read an article in The New Yorker that made even me reconsider my opposition to the death penalty. It was about some particularly violent Neo-Nazis who are on death row in several prisons. Even though they are in solitary confinement, they've managed to kill other prisoners and guards. They have nothing to lose, they are already condemned to death. Have to admit I'm not sure what to do with someone like that.
I still can't condone it, though. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/15/2009 6:45:03 PM |
This thread is about the death penalty, not abortion. If you want to discuss and debate abortion, why not start a new thread on that topic?
How do you separate the two? When value of life comes up in the capital punishment debate, the disconnect (And apparent hypocrisy involved) between abortion and the death penalty invariably becomes part of the debate. It's relevant to the issue. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/15/2009 8:26:57 PM |
This thread is about the death penalty, not abortion. If you want to discuss and debate abortion, why not start a new thread on that topic?
Someone equated the death penalty with abortion via both being murder. Sometimes threads wander a bit, but your right, we should stay on topic | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/16/2009 11:49:38 AM | How do you separate the two?
You got to be kidding!!!
They are two separate issues that's how.
You bring up hypocrisy and really when did that have any bearing on anything humans do.
These are just a few double standards i shot off the top of my head.
Murder a man selling drugs and your a criminal some would call you a hero.
murder a 5 year old playing in the park and your a monster.
that makes no sense to me...murder is murder
beat an 40 year old and it's assault and battery
beat an40 year old black person and it's a hate crime
spare me...the fact that there is 3-5years for a crime is bogus.
you do the crime you get the max.
It's alright to abuse animals when they are in a slaughter house
but not in the back yard.
animal lovers are the worst
hang a man for abusing a dog
but be a peace nick when it's a capitol crime.
The fact remains that some in our society would give the worst of the worst criminals a second chance and or a life sentence and some would clearly not.
Again those who face capitol crimes that are punishable by death
are NOT
manslaughter
wife beaters
drunk drivers
animal abusers
rapists
child rapists
white collar crime(embezzlement, money laundering, ect...)
The crimes they are guilty of surpass any of the horrors on that list.
The thought that someone would give a criminal who have done a worse crimes than child rape free room and board or even worse a second chance makes me ill.
The only problem with the death penalty is that the innocent can be swept into it. That part needs fixed.
The argument of is it morality of right or wrong is just silly.
It is far more moral to stop a murder then to let it happen.
Locking a murderer up for life is not stopping a murder it only delays it until the person has the opportunity or cause.
At the end of the day some would ask us to show compassion that these criminals clearly did not show to their victims.
again it's only for the worst of the worst and when it is clear that the person is guilty. Which means most would not get death penalty. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/16/2009 12:06:49 PM |
You got to be kidding!!!
Depends on the argument being put forth. If you read my earlier posts, you should have seen that I do not think they are the same issue. Just that when you start talking about the morality of taking a life, the people who find the death penalty repulsive tend to have no problem with abortion. The ones who find both repulsive have my respect, but not my agreement. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/16/2009 1:25:08 PM |
The thought that someone would give a criminal who have done a worse crimes than child rape free room and board or even worse a second chance makes me ill.
The only problem with the death penalty is that the innocent can be swept into it. That part needs fixed.
yeah that pesky part about getting the right guy. always such a downer. and fixing, so impossible. of course, the wrong guy probably won't be you so.... | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/16/2009 4:08:21 PM |
yeah that pesky part about getting the right guy. always such a downer. and fixing, so impossible. of course, the wrong guy probably won't be you so...
I am the first one to admit our system is messed up.
but the
but the title of the thread
DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE DEATH PENALTY.
Then the op spouted something about only god should have the power to take life.
Not do you believe in how it is distributed in our country.
all things being equal if you got the right guy then imo it would be irresponsible to not. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/16/2009 5:01:41 PM | I think you get it saraM
You can word it anyway you want but it is irresponsible to allow a person who have committed the worse of the worse crimes to have the ability to do so again.
Call it state sanctioned killing or community service. It makes little difference to me.
If you were a victim of a repeat offender may be your views would be different.
For all i know you may have been (if that is the case i feel for you ).
If you have had these things happened to you and you are able to look past them, then may be you are the example of forgiveness we as humans should strive for.
I am not so forgiving of those who commit these crimes and am quite comfortable with their bodies at room temperature.
no one can dispute that John wayne gacy will ever murder another person again. Unless you count his rotting corpse polluting the water table. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/16/2009 5:10:40 PM |
I think you get it saraM
You can word it anyway you want but it is irresponsible to allow a person who have committed the worse of the worse crimes to have the ability to do so again.
I never disagreed with that. But the way to accomplish this does not have to be state-sanctioned killing. I don't think that taking a life is ever a "responsible" thing to do, regardless of how it is couched.
(btw, it's not "sara.") | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/17/2009 12:59:06 PM | ooops. sorry about that, you being a non-repeat offender and all.
U.S. justices grant Georgia death row inmate's appeal
By James Vicini
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday granted an appeal by a Georgia death row inmate and ruled he should get a hearing to assess what he says is new evidence that will show his innocence.
The justices transferred the case of convicted murderer Troy Davis to a U.S. District Court in Georgia for a hearing and determination of his claims that new witnesses will clearly establish his innocence.
Davis had been convicted and sentenced to death for the killing 20 years ago of a police officer in Savannah, Georgia.
Lawyers for Davis said in their appeal that seven of nine prosecution witnesses have recanted their trial testimony and several new witnesses have identified or implicated a different individual as the shooter who killed police officer Mark MacPhail in a parking lot.
A number of prominent opponents of the death penalty have supported the appeal by Davis and said the execution cannot go forward as long as there are doubts about his guilt.
Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, Pope Benedict and Nobel Peace Prize winner and Desmond Tutu were among those who have expressed concern about the fairness of Davis' trial.
Attorneys for the state of Georgia told the Supreme Court the appeal should be rejected. They said every court that has reviewed the claims by Davis has found he failed to establish his innocence.
The Supreme Court's newest member, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who was sworn in on August 8, did not take part in the decision in the Davis case. No reason was given on why she did not participate.
Two of the court's conservatives, Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, dissented. Scalia wrote that the Supreme Court was sending the federal judge in Georgia on a "fool's errand" because the evidence had been reviewed and rejected at least three previous times.
Justice John Paul Stevens, joined by Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer, responded to Scalia and said he was wrong.
"The substantial risk of putting an innocent man to death clearly provides an adequate justification for holding an evidentiary hearing," Stevens wrote. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/17/2009 7:35:30 PM |
all things being equal if you got the right guy then imo it would be irresponsible to not.
Nathson Fields, 55, became the 131st person to be exonerated from death row after a retrial of his case in Illinois resulted in an acquittal on April 8, 2009.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-and-death-penalty
so IF one got the "right guy" you're saying the death penalty works
so when the "wrong guy" spends years waiting on death row or is executed-
we just tell the family-
well, it's a great system when we have "the right guy" | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/17/2009 8:16:12 PM | This is an interesting slant...........
Scalia says there’s nothing unconstitutional about executing the innocent.
Almost two decades ago, Troy Anthony Davis was convicted of murder and sentenced to die. Since then, seven of the witnesses against him have recanted their testimony, and some have even implicated Sylvester “Redd” Coles, a witness who testified that Davis was the shooter. In light of the very real evidence that Davis could be innocent of the crime that placed him on death row, the Supreme Court today invoked a rarely used procedure giving Davis an opportunity to challenge his conviction. Joined by Justice Clarence Thomas in dissent, however, Justice Antonin Scalia criticized his colleagues for thinking that mere innocence is grounds to overturn a conviction:
This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable.
So in Justice Scalia’s world, the law has no problem with sending an innocent man to die. One wonders why we even bother to have a Constitution.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/17/scalia-actual-innocence/
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/17/2009 10:49:23 PM | man, its a great day for the death penalty.
and given the fact that the Times is reporting that DNA can apparently be easily counterfeited we can toss that magic bullet out the window too.
gotta love texas. they hang em high and early.
US judge 'ignored death row plea'
By Rajesh Mirchandani
BBC News, Los Angeles
A judge in Texas has gone on trial accused of refusing to let lawyers for a convicted murderer on death row lodge a last-minute appeal.
Sharon Keller is charged with professional misconduct.
The prisoner, Michael Wayne Richard, was put to death hours after she allegedly shut the court, despite being told an appeal was imminent.
Half of all executions in the US last year were in Texas and Judge Keller has earned the nickname Sharon Killer.
She is known for her tough stance on the death penalty.
Just hours before his scheduled execution in September 2007, lawyers for Richard tried to lodge an appeal with Judge Keller, the presiding judge of the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals.
Their efforts were delayed by computer glitches and when they phoned the court to request extra time, they say they were told court closes at 5pm.
Richard was put to death some three hours later.
Now his lawyers claim Judge Keller deliberately ordered the courthouse to close at 5pm, knowing a last-minute appeal was imminent.
Judge Keller's lawyers say she meant that the court building closed at that time, but that there was an after-hours judge on duty who would have accepted the appeal.
State prosecutors have charged Judge Keller with five counts of professional misconduct. They say her actions cast "public discredit" on the judiciary.
If found guilty, she could lose her position on the State Appeals Court, a demotion that could end her career. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:51:43 AM | .
Scalia says it not unconstitutional to execute an innocent guy, so whats the big deal with the Judge from Tehas ................
You do know there was a plumber waiting for her.... sitting at her house....
1.... do you know how hard it is to get a plumber.
2... do you have any idea what the rate will be AFTER 5 pm....
Cut her some slack........... | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/18/2009 8:02:52 AM |
try to find ways to make the prisons abuse and crime-free as much as humanly possible. The above statement is ample evidence that some folks don't give much thought to what they post. HOW IN THE NAME OF COMMON SENSE ARE WE TO KEEP PRISONS CRIME FREE, WHEN IT'S RESIDENTS ARE FREAKING CRIMINALS/CONVICTS! DUH..................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It appears that it is *you* who needs to think about what you've read before you post. What part of "...as much as humanly possible" didn't you understand?
If we can't keep the society at large outside of the prisons completely crime-free, then there certainly isn't any hope that we can eliminate all criminal activities in the prisons--how you got that interpretation from my post is beyond me.
That being said, it's not acceptable to just sit back and let all the abuses that routinely occur in prisons go unchecked, whether the perpetrators are the inmates themselves or those in charge of their detention. We're headed in the wrong direction in this country on the issue of crime. A politician can easily win votes by declaring himself/herself "tough on crime" and by exploiting voters' fears, but this has led to all kinds of draconian criminal laws over a long period of time now. It's high time this country self-administered a sanity check on this issue. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/18/2009 9:17:55 AM | They say her actions cast "public discredit" on the judiciary.
If found guilty, she could lose her position on the State Appeals Court, a demotion that could end her career.
I dont have a proplem with a death row inmate exausting all of their court challanges. Its their Due Process. If we have Judges like Keller not willing to go the extra mile on the side of Justice and Due Process, then you mightr as well have a Kangaroo Court and hang the defendent without trial.
The law should bend over backwards to ensure the defendents appeals are heard.
A judge that closes her courtroom door at 5:00 pm, like its Miller time, is not a Judge I want sitting before Capital Murder Cases.
If Judge Keller is to busy...It s Time for Judge Keller to try something different. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/18/2009 9:29:24 AM | I'm 100% for the death penalty,but not as it currently is carried out.So I can walk up to a person and just shoot them in the head and be charged with 1st degree murder and get life,but if I walked up to the same person and said "give me your money" and then shot that person and killed them,then took a dollar out of their pocket,I would be eligible for the death penalty.
Why does it make a difference WHY you kill a person? | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/18/2009 2:24:40 PM |
so IF one got the "right guy" you're saying the death penalty works
I don't have to say it..the fact is that john wayne Gasey can never murder another person.
not to mention that charles manson if he got out of prison could do the acts that landed him in prison and as long as his lungs hold air he could get people to do his bidding.
Death penalty works
so when the "wrong guy" spends years waiting on death row or is executed-
we just tell the family-
well, it's a great system when we have "the right guy"
I am not disputing that the wrong people could(the future) and have been(the past) put to death.
I never said i supported the way the USA dishes out the death penalty. It's better than some other countries but it is not perfect and when your talking about death it needs to be perfect.
I also never said i would not support a moratorium until a system could be practiced that would eliminate such deaths.
I know there is a thunder of people that say that can't be done.
That's BS
I don't subscribe to it can't be done mentality.
If that was the case we could have never broke away from England, put a man on the moon or get a great cigar story from a sitting president. (not much on clinton but i'd smoke a cigar with that man )
What i did say is if you did the crime then it's over.
on a different note
sorry SaharaM
I didn't mean to zing you with saraM | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:15:12 PM |
I never said i supported the way the USA dishes out the death penalty. It's better than some other countries but it is not perfect and when your talking about death it needs to be perfect.
thank you-
you just supported the reason I am against the death penalty
as long as we have jury trials, judges like Sharon Keller, racial biases, crooked police, inept lawyers..
in other words-
as long as people are involved
the death penalty will never be perfect and should be abolished
our "error rate" is too high and always will be~
the country should not take away the lives of its citizens
funny how those against abortion are pro birth-
but when it comes to the death penalty
they cease to advocate for life
I guess they are pro birth, just not pro life | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/18/2009 10:52:16 PM | "I never said i supported the way the USA dishes out the death penalty. It's better than some other countries but it is not perfect and when your talking about death it needs to be perfect."
so what other countries are there? like Saudi Arabia and China? even the Russians don't practice the death penalty anymore and certainly none of the civilized nations do. just who are you trying to do better than? Indonesia? | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/25/2009 4:02:20 PM | .
I bet Cameron Todd Willingham feels a lot better...................
http://www.abajournal.com/news/expert_hits_arson_finding_in_case_that_led_to_defendants_execution/
Death Penalty
Expert Hits Arson Finding in Case that Led to Defendant’s Execution
Posted 9 hours, 43 minutes ago
By Debra Cassens Weiss
A nationally known expert has concluded that a fire was not arson, a finding that contradicted trial testimony that led to the conviction and execution of a Texas man.
The expert, Craig Beyler, reviewed the case of Cameron Todd Willingham for the Texas Forensic Science Commission, created to investigate allegations of forensic mistakes, the Chicago Tribune reports. The newspaper obtained a copy of his report.
Willingham was convicted of murder for the deaths of his three children who perished in the fire. Beyler is one of nine top fire scientists who have reviewed the case and found that the original investigators relied on outdated theories and folklore, the story says.
Beyler wrote that the state fire marshal investigating the case "seems to be wholly without any realistic understanding of fires and how fire injuries are created.”
Wait it's too late.............
Maybe the Fire marshal didn't know D!ck about fires...........
That sounds like Tejas Expert testimony.............
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