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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 4:56:36 PM | To Pazoozoo:
Once again, not a personal attack, just a clarification of the idea of sharing.
If you read what I wrote, sharing doesn't begin until you are in a mutual relationship and this is left to discretion of the two. As for inviting someone to your house, you are expected to treat them with hospitality- it is not a mutual place. So everything for the most part is on you.
~Oso | |
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Cheba
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Joined: 4/10/2009
Msg: 102 | |
| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 4:58:15 PM | i disagree. the man should always pay for the first date. it's common courtesy. and it lets us know that you would like to impress us and take charge and show me you are interested in getting to know.
dinner never has to be anything fancy. it can also be a picnic which a guy can make at home.
:D | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 4:58:31 PM | If I'm interested in a guy, I don't show it by letting him pay for stuff.
Thanks for the offer GiggleMePink, but I'd rather dutch it with ya for the coffee, tea, and pizza just so we enjoy each other's company a later time for another lapdance
sounds good to me. | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 4:59:08 PM | | Nicely said, Brenoso, now, I really think you should write a book on this subject! All I'd like to have said is here, with other words (forgive me, I'm not a native English speaker). Thatt's it man, you got it! | |
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Cheba
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Joined: 4/10/2009
Msg: 105 | |
| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 5:04:39 PM | does this mean that guys should stop buying women flowers? and opening doors? sure let's all be equal.
the point is that yeah i can pay for my own dinner and open my own door, but doesn't it seem more special if a man opens the car door for me? or fights for the check? i am not saying the guy should always pay. but first date is kinda rule. consider how much time a woman spends preparing for a date and doing her hair and nails and etc... she would like to impress the guy she is going out with. she wants him to notice how nice she looks and how she tried for him. same goes for a guy in my opinion.
the only times i've split the bill was when i really wasn't going to see them again.... >.> X_X | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 5:08:53 PM | | Cheba, the point is, would you go to a guy's house on the first date??? And WHERE is written that "MAN SHOULD ALWAYS PAY" for the first date? What about the second date, if there is one? And what do ya say about a 3rd, 4th??????? Oh, by the 10th date, now, it's okay if MAN DON"T pay! Would that be it? So, you would pass the opportunity to meet the man of your life just because he doesn't have enough to pay for the first date? Oh, I forgot, you could go to his home on the first date.... | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 5:12:34 PM | Cheba, to each his/her own (But I'm man of equality and I would just like for most to at least understand my perspective)
A man can let a lady know how gorgeous/beautiful she is by communicating such- i.e. "You look stunning!" That should be enough. To further the fact, a woman gets dolled up for herself for the most part. When she goes out with her friends, who is she trying to impress? No one. She wants to feel good by looking good. Men do the same for the most part but we just don't have as any options as women do in terms of clothing (women can wear pants and dresses/skirts- men do not have the duality opportunity-DAMN SOCIETY FOR THIS!!!). A man showers before a date too. He tries to look his best so should the woman pay if he looks better than her? I'm joking but the truth hides in my jest as well.
~Oso | |
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Cheba
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Joined: 4/10/2009
Msg: 109 | |
| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 5:18:17 PM | oh lord no! haha no way! um why would i go to his house? i am not sure how that's related....
it's always been like that though. the man always pays. on the 2nd date and if there are more dates i pay. i usually do the whole thing where if he pays for the movies, i pay for dinner or his parking. that sort of thing.
that has never been an issue for me. i never set up anything fancy on the first date. it's always just coffee or a walk in a park. dinner only we really hit it off. haha and i don't think the man of my life would pass ME by if he didn't have enough money. as i said.... he'd prob get creative if he really is into me.
once i went out with a guy who knew i liked ice skating and never went to rockefellar center. so he got a job there and then took me to skate during off hours. i was very impressed. he worked there for two days of course haha >.< but it was a cute gesture.
but see what i mean? you really wanna be the guy who doesn't pay for the dinner on a first date? ??? really???? that makes me sad ...
(edit) yeah sure we dress nice for ourselves but come on... it's also to make sure the guy we are with knows we are stunning. i am a total believer in equality in relationships and dating. just not on the first date :P | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 5:18:25 PM | "sure let's all be equal. "
Okay then, so here it goes the "equal rights" again, what about "equal obligations?" Are women and men really equal? So, a man should also expect to have the car doors opened by the woman, should also expect to be brought flowers, should also expect to get his first date propmtly paid for them by the woman, after all, think of how hard he has to work to earn some money, buy a great suit (he does "equally "want to impress, now, doesn't he?), buy some fancy car, have to keep the car up and running, how much time he spends on getting to know a lot of things to have to start a conversation and have to talk about, the gas he used, the valet parking, etc... so, is it really a GOLDEN RULE written on stone that a guy should pay for the first date because of the time women spent trying to look interesting to him, or is it just a society Golden Rule made up by women in the pastm that is so good to be changed? | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 5:19:04 PM |
If you read what I wrote, sharing doesn't begin until you are in a mutual relationship and this is left to discretion of the two
I understand that part, but since this thread is about what ALL women should put on their profile, is imparting information that we are willing to share expenses for entertainment to complete strangers something that actually has any value to anyone? IMHO, it seems to be putting the cart before the horse. Why not exchange emails, and phone conversations to get a feel for how the interested guy might feel? I have known many men who would feel that a woman is trying to emasculate them if the lady implied the guy wasn't capable or inclined to pick up the bill.
. As for inviting someone to your house, you are expected to treat them with hospitality
And if a person issues an invitation for an evening at the date, time, and place of their choice, is that person not assuming the role of a host, and therefore should also assume the financial responsibility?
Please understand, I often pick up the entire bill because many of my male friends are in tight financial situations, so this discussion for me is only intellectual gymnastics, and no aspersions at all against any male or group of males. | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 5:25:04 PM | This seems to be the most common topic on the boards and I think I will pop in with my opinion on paying and first dates. I love women and if a woman expects a man to pay for a first date, at a restaurant, then I respect that, but there is no way I would take a woman out for an expensive first date. I can size up a woman in about five minutes from her communication style, looks, friendliness, and attitude on whether I want to see her gain, or prolong the first date. For me, this does not require a dinner. Instead, I would rather meet her for a coffee, ice-cream, drive, walk in the park and save myself the used feeling of taking out a stranger for dinner who does not expect me to use her in return. First dates require low expectations and no using of each other in order to begin a friendship that could potentially lead to something more.
-Mike | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 5:30:23 PM | Of course not, cheba, this is just a discussion here, I like to think thiungs over, and not just accept them the way they present, and of course I always wind up paying everything on the first date, because I know if I don;'t do that, most women will find me cheap and I won't have a second opportunity to see her. You see? I just follow society's rules, but I really think that if we are living in a society where women says and feels like they're equal to man, where women sometimes make more money than men, where we have "equal rights", then, why the hell should some things stay the same as it they were 50, 60 years past?
We make astonishing progresses in some fields, while in others it seems like we're living in the caves. We have the ability to move on in somethings, but others dont's change at all. So, I pay because I know women like that, despite of anything they say in contrary, and because I don't want to be called cheap, because I'm not really cheap and I don't think people can judge others like that, it's just a way society gets its GOLDEN RULES perpetuated, because what is interesting for one, one doesn't wanna see it changed, now, isn't it? I'd really like to see some changes, just to vary. | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 5:33:17 PM |
And if a person issues an invitation for an evening at the date, time, and place of their choice, is that person not assuming the role of a host, and therefore should also assume the financial responsibility?
I understand your point. But when I go on a first or second date, usually both people have some input about the details of the date. Regardless of who asked. Therefore IMO there is no host in that situation | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 6:39:12 PM | Pazoozoo, I appreciate the mental gymnastics for this topic. But Celt mentioned the point that I was going to mention. A first date is a mutual agreement and a mutual place. Now if a man wants to go all out and say let's go to an expensive place- you should come with your own money just in case but it should be expected for him to pay since he chose the expensive place without consulting finances with you.
Cheba
i am a total believer in equality in relationships and dating. just not on the first date :P
 Lol , as I said, to each his/her own.
Claudio makes a great point (again)
think of how hard he has to work to earn some money, buy a great suit (he does "equally "want to impress, now, doesn't he?)
Yes you doll up, but he does too in his own way after working hard to get the money he has earned.
Let's agree and engrain in our psyches that a mutual date in a mutual location should be split equally unless one offers to pay for the entire thing (and I'm not talking about, let's see who reaches for their wallets first..).
I think that any woman that copy/paste those words into their profile, whether I'm attracted to them or not, is a better suit for me because they took the time to separate themselves from subculture that I and many men alike don't appreciate before we even met. How cool is that? Communication before we even communicated!
~Oso | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 7:14:46 PM |
Brown eyed woman, it's impossible not be jaded by the past and it's also naive to see everything without the possible worst situation (i.e. gold digging women/men; men/women who only want sex). You have to assume such because it is the RULE and the ones who are different (the ones who really want love with no agenda) are the EXCEPTION. Why do you think it's so difficult to find "love"? This insincere facet makes up for many of failed relationships. If I was to see a girl post such copy/paste words in her profile, I would at least know she's more serious (more than an actual 'Serious Member') because she's going out of her way to further communicate her intentions-Finding Love. Plus she's differentiating herself from a man's worst fear when finding love- someone that will use his kindness for weakness. Paying should be a mutual thing (especially in the beginning), not an entitlement, not always a sign of non-interest, just an understanding that "At this very moment, we are individuals. When we connect and establish a relationship or the potential for one, we can began sharing finances because then we understand that money is merely dirt in the presence of Love".
There is learning from your past, and then there is being jaded. To me, being jaded means you assume every woman who comes along carries the bad traits that your last woman did. I have never used anyone for a free meal, and do not see the point in adding something to my profile to alert men that I dont do that. I should also state I dont cheat, I will never ding your car and I wont get fat if we marry? All because thats what an ex did to some randon man? Good grief.
If I buy a meal or treat for a man, I am doing it because in that moment in time, it felt right. If it turned out later he wasnt going to date me, I dont immediatly return to that point in time and regret my treat to him. That is petty and childish, and shows that you only did that nice thing in order to 'get' something...meaning it wasnt all that 'nice'. Give freely, only if you feel like it, and then shut up about it. Keeping a tally is useless. Only give when you feel compelled to. Then you have no regrets. Giving always feels better than taking, to me anyways. | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 7:15:08 PM | Whatever. I'm just tired of hearing men complain about money when I drive an hour to meet these men, only to find them complaining about money when I expected to pay my own dam bill in addition to the time and money I put into my part. Honestly, there was hardly any men who would make the same effort I would and drive out to my place unless there had been kissing or a little more involved (that was only 2 of them). Only one man made the offer out of all the rest in 7 years. Yet I continued to drive and look forward to meeting these men without worrying about it. I actually never even thought about it, until someone else brought it up to me.
The last guy I dated, we took turns each and every time. And even when we agreed not to continue seeing each other in the romantic sense, we went out as friends and we still paid for each other.
Men complaining about this is akin to women going on about men wanting only one thing or how about I go on and on about the fact that men would only drive out to my place when something remotely sexual had already happened. But why should I do that? It would be negative and obviously since there was one man who didn't follow the rest, it stands to reason there are others.
Unfortunately many people follow the adage of "one man can make one woman hate all men". One can change the sexes around, but you get the drift.
I usually try to ask for separate bills. Plain and simple. If I want to pay, I'll say ahead of time that this is on me. I know how uncomfortable the bill time can be for many people. I'm not uncomfortable about it, so I speak up ahead of time to make things easier. I'm also not offended by a man who states things like that either. What I do hate is some man sitting there complaining about money when he's living with mom and not paying rent. That IS cheap to me. A man not paying for my date doesn't mean he's cheap.
And besides, if you want to blame someone for making us this way - blame men. It's men who put the idea in most girls heads that they are special and that no boy is good enough for their. Not all of us grew up with a dad, so we're not all princesses. However, men like the princesses because the princesses learned early on how to play up to a man's ego.
Until we accept the dynamics behind why so many things are the way they are, you people will continue to debate this. If you want to effect change, start with your own children.
I also agree with Breneso, when I invite someone to my house I'm not expecting payback for that. I'm hosting them - it's not the same as a "go out date".
Now if a man wants to go all out and say let's go to an expensive place- you should come with your own money just in case but it should be expected for him to pay since he chose the expensive place without consulting finances with you.
Agreed. I often suggest the restaurant because that's my area, but I always ask if that's good with him. If he can't be honest, then he should not be dating me. | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 7:50:14 PM | Hrm, well, I'll admit that what I've gotten out of this is that some women think it makes sense to go dutch on the first meet/date, some think that a man should pay, some think he shouldn't be required to, and some think that he should or shouldn't, but if the woman chips in it means she's not interested, unless she chips in to be fair and *is* interested.
I mean, it's not like it was difficult to confuse me to begin with, but now??! lol
What I *have* thus far learned, as a solid bit of reliable info from this thread, is that if I were to ever find myself dating in the Austin, Texas area, not only would I not be expected to pay for the whole first date, but there's a good shot my date will pay for a lapdance for me!
I will confess that THAT has never occurred to me before, either!
But in all (lack of) seriousness, ladies, men are already confused, you don't have to put THAT much extra effort into it - there are no bonus points for artistic intricacy!
(now, y'see, you all are supposed to be reading this particular post VERY tongue-in-cheek) | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 8:42:56 PM | I'll agree that I'm jaded but it doesn't show when I'm on a date or for most of the relationship- it doesn't come off as I hate all women. But just as women have to be cautious about players and dogs (etc.), men have to be weary of gold-diggers, flakes, etc. It's not a matter of every woman/man is like that but it's alway best to be cautious and learn from past experiences.
Ok, let's look at it accordingly, cheating is UNIVERSALLY seen as wrong. Denting someone's car is UNIVERSALLY wrong and illegal. Going on a date and hinting that the guy pays is NOT UNIVERSALLY wrong. It's SUBJECTIVE but as a man, I'm just delivering to women that some men don't like being expected to pay all the time and fear if they do not, they are a red flag candidate.
I'm just hinting to woman (that's what the forums are partially for- to bridge the communication gap between the sexes and "inter-genderally" <--My word; My dibbs!) that some men don't appreciate it. You can experiment for yourself and see what works best for you. Good Luck Fishing to all!
~Oso | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 11:04:00 PM |
I'm just delivering to women that some men don't like being expected to pay all the time and fear if they do not, they are a red flag candidate.
Again, I say ofercrissakes. If you are one of those men who don't like to pay, then wouldn't you consider a woman who expects you to, a "red flag candidate" herself?
Honestly, I'm a brighter than average person, but I don't get why this is such a big fat hairy fukkin deal.
If you don't want to pay, then do free or inexpensive things on the first couple of dates, or make it clear to the lady that you expect to split the bill.
Yes, you risk hoisting the big red cheap flag, but so what??? If you really believe that you shouldn't be expected to pay, then isn't that a great weeder-outer for you?
And, btw, dinner is not "gold". I have run across exactly zero men here in 2 years who have any actual wealth that needs protecting.
Anna Nicole Smith is dead. She isn't lurking here trying to seduce you into signing over your condo in Southview & support her variously sired brood,with her wily female ways.
Get over your overblown selves. | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/13/2009 11:43:31 PM |
I just read something in a woman's profile that I think is so wonderful I strongly believe ALL women here on pof should cut and paste into their profiles:
*
I'm not running a ploy to get free meals. I'm happy to meet at a restaurant and pay for myself, if you still think you'd like to get to know me.
*
Ladies, if you put this in your profiles you'll definitely impress a lot of men here.
I have zero interest in impressing anyone.
I'm just going to be myself and get to know anyone who wants to get to know me better, whom I'm interested in, of course.
And I have zero interst in getting to know any man who is petty enough to worry about who will be paying for coffee or a meal.
It's just ridiculous and tacky.
And, btw, dinner is not "gold". I have run across exactly zero men here in 2 years who have any actual wealth that needs protecting.
Anna Nicole Smith is dead. She isn't lurking here trying to seduce you into signing over your condo in Southview & support her variously sired brood,with her wily female ways.
Get over your overblown selves.
Exactly. The men on here who beyotch and moan about paying for meals have no money to speak of. If they had any real money, they wouldn't care about something so petty and small. | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/14/2009 12:26:05 AM | Ladies, you know how angry and frustrated you get when a guy brings up sex right away. The first time you may, or may not, try to laugh it off like he was trying to make a joke or test the waters. the second , third and fourth times it gets really annoying and the last time is just way to much , hence it becomes the last time.
When a man takes a woman out to dinner the first time, we really do not mind paying at all. Not even the second or third time. It is when it becomes evident that we are being used that it bothers us.
Just as not all men are pigs, we realize that not all women are, for lack of a better term, gold diggers. But just as you have met enough men that ARE, so have we met our share of women who are users.
I included on my profile a sentence that very specificly says I'm not looking for sex. And I know allot of women have found that bit of honesty refreshing, they've told me so. So I think the OP makes a legit observation. If a woman were to say up front, "I want to ay my own way, or split the check." or if she were to say, "Hey you got it last time, this one's on me." I think a significant number of men who are NOT penniles or Cheap would likewise find it refreshingly honest.
And BTW, I am penniless and that makes me cheap, however I would not ask a woman out if I do not have the money to pay. And if asked out by a woman, I don't hesitate to say when the budget is tight that we'll have to keep it low key this time. | |
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| Something ALL women on pof should put in their profiles
Posted: 6/14/2009 12:30:22 AM | Seems like there are sure a lot of guys on here who have a bad attitude towards women and/or dating, but then when they can't keep a good woman, they blame it on, "Oh, I'm a *nice guy*, she doesn't want me because I'm not rich enough... Oh, it's because I'm not handsome enough. She's just a golddigger".
When, in a lot of cases the real truth would be, "She won't date me because I'm stingy, selfish, inconsiderate, have a bad attitude, and not very nice".
Now I know not all men are like that, but sure seems like a *whole lot* are. | |
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