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 Author Thread: Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
 namrael

Joined: 8/10/2008
Msg: 151
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 2:14:40 PM
youngsnowbird:

http://www.birthmothers.info/abstracts.htm
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/03/breaking-silence-on-living-pro-lifers.html

I'm not claiming that abortion doesn't have a negative psychological impact for many women; however, adoption has an impact that certainly can be worse, and the women I know who have had abortions are very much okay with their decisions. It depends upon the women involved, the amount of support they get, how okay they were with their decisions in the first place, etc. It's just that we don't generally hear much about potential negative impact of adoption on a birth mother, and that's something we need to be aware of, especially if people are going to tout that as the "best choice" for an unplanned pregnancy.

Also, I fail to see what my job has to do with my thoughts on this matter.
 stunt groom

Joined: 5/28/2009
Msg: 152
Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 2:16:05 PM

1. What part of this is relevant to the topic?

2. I don't even recall Obama being brought up prior to you, so referencing him now is completely incongruous, albeit your attitude alone shows that you are the type of person who is desperate to be heard not understood.

3. Do you even know how a bill gets passed?

4. I'll bite. How in the hell does it make sense for GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS who get FREE HEALTHCARE, for themselves and their families, paid for BY MY TAX DOLLARS, to have the AUDACITY to say the same money can't pay for a little sick girls ASHTMA INHALER?!?!?!?


Said the sheep...

Your #4 is a rambling that doesn't even make sense.. So I guess YOU'RE the one who's desperate to be heard and not understood..? I think you should learn to write a basic sentence before you go talking down to people . I thought you were a female at first, so I was going to let it go. How dare I take the messiah's name is vain.. I'm not big on on the job training for my president. It's taken him very little time to screw up a whole lot of things, including , obviously, your judgement..

You go to great lengths to hide your face in your pics ..Are you wanted for something..?
 cw35

Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 153
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 2:18:56 PM
young: She had "psychological" consequences because she wasn't strong enough to brush off the ridiculous guilt trips that people like you try to put forth with nonsensical "murder" talk. This combined with religious brainwashing that seeps into every pore of our society is why people become internally tortured. It would never happen to me or anyone else with a logical thought process because I listen to reason and not some over dramatized tripe when deciding what to believe. Once you see through the trickery, guilt is no longer a possibility. There's proof that it's no more a "murder" than killing an earthworm. If you and others are too ignorant to face facts because you're too slow to understand the truth that's your problem. There's WAY too many people making decisions about this topic based on misplaced emotions and not enough on common sense.
 Oakland Honey

Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 154
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:14:03 PM
I am neither. I am PRO ABORTION. I think any woman that is not married, that has no money, that has no real connection to some dude she laid up with and got pregnant by should get an abortion. No ifs, no ands, and no buts.

First of all women have the ridiculous notion that its romantic to have some fool's baby. I don't know where that came from, but they whine about how " I can't kill MY BABY" knowing they have no real support system or way to take care of and support the kid. Then they are pregnant by some knucklehead they know nothing about. Is the guy a career criminal, an abusive jerk, a depressed sociopath, have a family history of awful diseases and birth defects, or is he some other kind of nutcase?

None of that matters in some women's minds and they just want to have "his baby."

Then you have the pro-lifers. They jump up and down about how life is precious, its special, oh oh oh. But as soon as the woman they talked into keeping her kid has no money to pay rent or buy groceries or take her sick kid to the doctor, where are they? Where is their credit card and check book? Instead of giving up some ducats, they are now furious and feeling victimized because they slept with a woman that has their baby and is now knee deep in that wallet for the next 18 years.

Others are at home and online whining about their taxes and how all these welfare people are wasting their tax dollars . Lord save me from hypocrites, please!

Anyway, women get stuck with kids and lessen their chances for meeting a really nice guy, marrying and having a family with HIM. Few men are into the ready made family thing, especially if there is Baby Daddy drama occurring. Especially if your kid is bad. Especially if your kid has health issues. In the meantime, the Baby Daddy is on about his business, writing a check (MAYBE) once a month, showing up for visitation if and when he feels like it, and creating a new family elsewhere.

The one that suffers in these unmarried woman having fool's baby scenarios is the woman and the child.

I really don't understand why any woman would be pro-life under the circumstances.
 RenaissanceMan1950

Joined: 2/20/2009
Msg: 155
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 4:19:20 PM
Re: Post #148 old soul

As with many other issues, I am often on the "other side" of an issue with old soul. However, as always, she expresses her point of view in a way that leads to understanding and respect for her thoughts and feelings. I could easily be in a relationship with someone who "disagrees" and clearly states her positions, as does old soul.

A key to communication, epitomized with the post referenced above, is acknowledging the "other guy", and expressing an understanding of the other point of view, without giving up your own.

There are many posts in this thread, even among those who "agree" with me, who express their points in a "take no prisoners" sort of way, that belittles and demonizes anyone who doesn't agree. Even when on the same side, people like that would be toxic in a relationship, driven by the unfettered need to be "right" in a way that requires that those who don't agree are completely "wrong"..."stupid", etc..
 RenaissanceMan1950

Joined: 2/20/2009
Msg: 156
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 4:28:31 PM
Re: Post #149 namrael


The psychological impact is typically far greater for a birth mother who gives her baby up for adoption than it is for a woman who chooses abortion. The same pro-life advocates who believe in adoption for unplanned pregnancies also typically fail entirely to address this issue, so the women are left with massive psychological scars that, often, they have no tools to address.


Actually, most of the agencies that offer "abortion alternatives" provide a great deal of counseling to pregnant women, who choose adoption over abortion. Also, the studies on the issue show a much higher incidence of serious depression and addiction among women, who have had abortions, when compareed to women, who have chosen adoption.


I believe very firmly that it is absolutely no one else's business what she chooses in that situation


To say that a woman has the final word, or that she has an unquestioned legal right to choose abortion is simply fact. To say, though, that the father of the unborn child has "no business" expressing an opinion, or attempting to change her mind, is, I think to deny the obvious "business" that a man has in terms of his progeny.


Personally, despite the fact that I would almost certainly birth a baby if I had an unplanned pregnancy (and might well give it up for adoption, even knowing what I do about the psychological impact of that choice),


All the foregoing aside, I have found Namrael to be another example of a woman with whom I often disagree, but who expresses herself in a way that wouldn't be a "deal breaker" in a relationship.
 CityHorseWoman

Joined: 8/5/2008
Msg: 157
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 5:30:53 PM
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@ RenaissanceMan1950



Also, the studies on the issue show a much higher incidence of serious depression and addiction among women, who have had abortions, when compareed to women, who have chosen adoption.

Where are you getting your information from?

I am going to give you a scenario, a very accurate one that will involve myself, and I would like your honest, heartfelt opinion and advice.
I have had tubal ligation done when I was very young.
Let us just say that for today, I have found out that my birth control has failed and I now have found myself pregnant. And lets say because I still ovulate and menstruate I am about 3 to 4 weeks along as I am sure I would notice right away why my period is absent....And we will just forget about the father for a moment.
There is a problem however.
I have severe degenerative disc disease at the L3/4 level, so severe that there is no joint that exists nor the spongy "padding" that exists between all our spinal joints. In essense, it is "bone on bone" along with the nerve endings that also are being affected. I am also classified as being in intractible pain, and I am under the supervision of a Pain Clinic along with being treated by various medications so that my pain can be controlled and I can live a near-normal life.
These medications are definately contraindicated for anyone who is pregnant. And there are no substitutes that supress the type of pain that I have.
Without them, I would be bedridden and probably dead within a month or so from cardiac-adrenal pain syndrome, dementia, and some other complication that would be just as lovely. The extra weight of a fetus left to grow (if I lived that long) would most likely end up crushing the disc and inflicting even more pain and misery on myself.
So, what would your answer be for me?
 RenaissanceMan1950

Joined: 2/20/2009
Msg: 158
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 5:35:05 PM

So, what would your answer be for me?


Cityhorsewoman, I am not God, nor your conscience. I wouldn't presume to "render judgment" about what you "should do".

That being said, as I have expressed several times in this thread, when pregnancy threatens the life of the mother, the choice seems obvious to me.
 CityHorseWoman

Joined: 8/5/2008
Msg: 159
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 5:41:08 PM
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Sure, I may want to keep my baby.

But you will also have to admit, that if I was to seek conselling at a pro-life clinic, they would seek every available excuse and answer as to why I should carry through.

And I doubt like hell any of them would be at my bedside day and night, mopping my brow, making me eat (or monitoring my IV), and changing my sheets because I won't be getting up to use the bathroom. Never mind offering their arm so I could dig my nails in or bite into it because the pain is so agonizing.

No, most pro-lifers do not look at any health condition as any excuse as to why there is a reason to terminate a pregnancy.

Like the "intelligent" man who has also made his posts be known here, I would be considered a "murderer" no matter what...

\/ ... and I arrest my case.
 stunt groom

Joined: 5/28/2009
Msg: 160
Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 5:43:16 PM

oh gees .. again I am gonnah bring the status quo another spin on spun... I believe that men are more tolerant of an opposing opinion.. when they want the cookie .. they will bend over backwards and do somersaults to get the "cookie" .. women on the other hand do not appreciate the informed consequence of a very indepth education on the science behind the race .. and when opinionate without fact will attack like a killer bee trying to be queen of a contrived hive!!! My mother and I had extremely opposing views on abortion.. mine being of reading every available piece of data on the subject .. her opinion being formed via her own opinion without fact.. an emotional opinion.. on an emotional subject.

I will say that women are more passionate about their mates being on the same page .. plenty of men go to church to get "the cookie" who are not the least bit religious.. they will disguise interest for disinterest.. hmm to hear the hum of the vagina hymns later.. like after the pew visit!! . Women are very much less inclined to stay in a relationship of long term with a male with opposing views.. it appears from all of the lifers I know.. and most are incredibly dysfunctional relationships the man will agree to disagree if he is getting " the cookie". So intellectual control whether it is real or faked .. is for women a reason to hand out and deliver " the cookie"... too much of the wrong to get dong control for this .. vagina monologger.. I ain't afraid to go logger heads on the subject .. and give footnotes but not many have delved into the research beyond an emotional decision on the issue of abortion... and this subject is far more complex than most care to explore.



This has to be one of 'the' most insuting and sexist posts I've seen on here. When a man makes comments like this the hens get clucking like made and lose their minds.. But other men just sit and take this mess and don't call them on it.. This was a very misadric post and I was slammed for what I said.. There is a double standard on almost every web site of mixed company.. Females bashing male and can't take it when the tables are turned..

These are the same folks who think it's fair game to murder an innocent baby ( or 1.2 million per year) , I can connect the dots..

"When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. And that is my religion.."- Abraham Lincoln
 RenaissanceMan1950

Joined: 2/20/2009
Msg: 161
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 5:46:39 PM

No, most pro-lifers do not look at any health condition as any excuse as to why there is a reason to terminate a pregnancy.


That's the fallacy, to lump all people with pro-life views in with the activists. With 52% of people considering themselves "pro life", the vast majority of them use common sense on the issue, recognizing that there are situations, where abortion would make sense, if they faced a circumstance that threatened the life of the mother.

Fortunately, most "pro choice" people don't espouse the views expressed in post #155. Most pro choicers don't actually favor widespread abortion. Amongst the vast majority of people on each side, reasonable discussions within a relationship or friendship, are possible.
 namrael

Joined: 8/10/2008
Msg: 162
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 5:51:09 PM

Also, the studies on the issue show a much higher incidence of serious depression and addiction among women, who have had abortions, when compareed to women, who have chosen adoption.


Do you have references for that?


To say that a woman has the final word, or that she has an unquestioned legal right to choose abortion is simply fact. To say, though, that the father of the unborn child has "no business" expressing an opinion, or attempting to change her mind, is, I think to deny the obvious "business" that a man has in terms of his progeny.


I think he has every right to express his opinion; however, since she is the one who would be carrying that baby to term, giving birth, etc., it is her right to make the final decision. I think it's unethical both to attempt to manipulate a woman into carrying a baby to term, and into getting an abortion. I do make a distinction between manipulation and expressing his opinion, but I've definitely seen cases in particular where a man has attempted to manipulate his partner into getting an abortion she didn't want.

I do think this is something that people should discuss at the beginning of any sexual relationship, and I make it a point to do so with any new partner. I wish that were more standard practice. I also have the luxury of knowing a fabulous set of parents who would absolutely adopt a baby if I had an unwanted pregnancy, which is something most women don't have--I'm not sure how I'd feel about adopting out a baby under other circumstances, and I do feel lucky to have that option should my contraception fail.
 RenaissanceMan1950

Joined: 2/20/2009
Msg: 163
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 6:05:38 PM

namrael --- I think he has every right to express his opinion; however, since she is the one who would be carrying that baby to term, giving birth, etc., it is her right to make the final decision. I think it's unethical both to attempt to manipulate a woman into carrying a baby to term


The only "issue" I have with your last post is this one. Short of interfering with her legal rights, such as physically preventing her from using her "right to choose", in the case of saving one's child from abortion, I would be fine with "manipulation". I've "been there", long ago, and fault myself for not "manipulating", such as telling her we'd be "done" if she had an abortion, rather than saying I'd "be there" for her, whichever choice she made.
 thadood38

Joined: 5/5/2009
Msg: 164
Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 8:47:37 PM

This is what happens, when the OP stops participating in his own thread. It seems that the dingbats, who just can't seem to stay on topic, are insistent on ruining the thread.

So if I were posting here more....he would stop sounding like an raving lunatic? Somehow I doubt that. What am I supposed to do, make a post every page wagging my finger at everyone to behave?

As far as I'm concerned I've said my peace on the subject. I have no interest in repeating myself. I am enjoying people's responses to the topic. I frankly don't mind if it goes a little off topic sometimes to lay a broader groundwork on either side.

~Justin
 RenaissanceMan1950

Joined: 2/20/2009
Msg: 165
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/21/2009 8:58:05 PM


So if I were posting here more....he would stop sounding like an raving lunatic?


At the time that I made that comment, the thread had gone off track, with sequential posts having nothing to do with your topic. The OP has an implied "authority" and responsibility to keep his/her thread on topic, and most forun regulars will respect that, when the OP intervenes to get a thread back on topic. The mods, too, will pay more attention to the OP, if he reports off topic posts.

Fortunately, other people managed to get this thread back onto the topic of whether abortion is too divisive an issue to work through in a relationship.
 thadood38

Joined: 5/5/2009
Msg: 166
Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 6:42:15 AM
Someone who is having a hard time posting asked me to put this on here for the discussion:

"Hi again,
It still won't let me post, PLEASE do me a favor..post on your thread the following site and ask the pro-choice and those who believe in abortions themselves to go to this site and watch the Obama must see video..if that doesn't change their minds, then all I can say is they have no heart or consience!!

http://www.abortiontruths.net/"
 cw35

Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 167
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 7:10:16 AM
Um, the only video is of some really good looking, actor guy talking about abortion. Is it his sparkling smile that's supposed to tug at my heartstrings? I did get a good laugh at the site saying that Obama supports abortions after the baby is born, though. This is the kind of sensationalized garbage that makes me have zero respect for "pro lifers". Don't worry, I've seen plenty of photos and videos but since I know the truth it doesn't really affect me emotionally.
 oldsoul

Joined: 3/10/2007
Msg: 168
Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 8:41:27 AM
OP...with all due respect (and this is not necessarily directed at you)....I find it insulting that "the opposition" assumes that most of us haven't seen the pictures and videos (and no, I didn't click on your link nor do I intend to).

I wish I could be more forthcoming in sharing how this topic has touched me personally, but I can't...it's too personal and it's not just about me. The bottom line is that people who try to appeal to my emotions with pictures and videos of dead babies/body parts disgust me AS much as the images themselves and I lose ALL respect for them AND their opinions.

Also, it's a fact that MOST abortions are performed before the three month mark, so those pictures do NOT apply and are nothing but propaganda/hysteria which again is not worthy of (my) respect.

As I have posted before, I am neither (fanatically) pro life or pro choice but give me a fanatic, and I'm MORE THAN capable of turning into a fanatic also.

The absolute bottom line (for me) is this - whether you or I or anyone agrees with it or not, what exactly are the alternatives to an unwanted pregnancy?

Should we force a woman (or girl) at gunpoint to carry her pregnancy to term?

Or build "prisons" to house those who are determined to terminate their pregnancy once a "judgement" has been rendered "against" them??

Perhaps we should shackle women to their cells?

What the hell? What are "those" people thinking of? It's one thing to be "disgusted" by those pictures ( and YES I've seen them!!!) but the very thought that a human being (YES women ARE human beings) should be FORCED against her will to carry a pregnancy to term is insane.

And NO, I have NO pity, sympathy or empathy (NONE whatsoever) for the "fathers" in this case - their CHOICE (because it IS a choice unless THEY were raped) was already made a long time ago.

Enough with the arguing over what's obvious and the way we are biologically designed. And what makes this argument even MORE stupid in my opinion is that most (not all) but the majority of the "pro-lifers" are bible thumpers also - blame your own god for our (unfair oh boohoo) design but get the hell out of my face with the "blame and shame " for something that *I* had nothing to do with!!!!!! Believe ME, this is not the way I would have "created" the human race (if at all) but no one asked me.

Ultimately (and whether I personally "agree" with it or not) , abortion is, as it SHOULD be, a woman's choice because it is HER body. Don't like it? Ask your "creator" for a refund and get a new body (and teach YOUR sons to zip/wrap it up before attempting to shame me/women over having no choice which is both pathetic and laughable IMO!!) - until then, I'll do what I want with my body.

Grrr...



JMO

*slowly retracts her claws and attempts to find her moderate position again*




\/ You can "blame" that post on my alter (fanatical) ego that was just clawing to get out...she's safely tucked back in now (until next time:)

 cw35

Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 169
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 8:45:22 AM
oldsoul: Smartest post in here so far. Totally agree.
 apainlessend

Joined: 4/5/2008
Msg: 170
Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 9:11:55 AM

I have always been pro-choice, and will stay pro-choice. Since it is the woman who has to carry the baby, it should be her decision on what to do with a pregnancy if she doesn't want it. It is her body.


Oh really? I agree.
But doesn't it become a bit gray when she decides to keep the baby, and the father doesn't want a child? Is that fair?

I've said it before, we live in a society that believes a man who knows he is not father material to be a dead beat but a woman who aborts a child, or gives it up because she isn't mother material is doing the right thing.

So basically, you can crush a man by telling him you are aborting his unborn child, or if you wish to keep the child, and the man doesn't wish to be/cant afford to be a father or be with you, you can crush him in court.

Either way the man gets the short end of the stick.
Which is why the family unit ****ing works. None of this bs applies in the scenario.

Don't go having sex with just anyone, or at the very least make sure the relationship is brimming with potential.

Though I was an advocated for drunken casual sex with just about anyone, are those not the people you should be wrapping it up the MOST WITH ANYWAY?



On a side note, I've always noticed that vehemently oppose pro life agenda the most, are those without children of their own.

I am definitely pro-life. but I am also a realist, and believe that it is not our place to judge a person's entire future.

Also, there are far to many contraceptive methods available to be getting knocked up. So I also believe that knowing this, yet still popping off in a girl while she is ovulating, you are asking for what you get.


Im actually sick of this discussion, not jsut here, everywhere.

We have the right to do as we please as humans and this supersedes any of the other intricacies involved.
 bgrumling

Joined: 2/28/2008
Msg: 171
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 9:42:11 AM
the sad thing is this. there are people out there who should not be parents that are. (ie susan smith, andrea yates). the sad thing is that those children were born to mothers who chose whatever over the kids. the other sad fact is this there are good people out there who would make good parents and provide loving homes, that cannot be parents.
the sad fact is also this our politicans propetuate the debate because they like contraversouy. ( everyone needs something or someone to hate). and the press loves the contraversy and scandal, for with out it they would not have a job. and those of the religious belief on this issue need god to be a champion and the devil to be the bad guy.
sterlization is not the answer. that goes back to world war II germany. they dont like you they can sterlize you for sexual orientation, religion, color, creed hair color or eye color, depending on who is in control.
now i am a father and my kids are 3000 miles away. I love my kids and would not trade them for anything. i am glad my ex wife kept them. The politicans I dont like because they prepetuate issues and keep the contraversy alive so they can have jobs and do battle for the lobists and the poeple with money. ( very few work for the people).
the press love contraversoy because without the sensationalism and drama the press would not know how to truly report just the facts and thats all, without any intrepitiation or narritive, and lets face it that would make for a really boring newscast at 11. For the religious crowd, this is what says david paul and jeremiah all talked about being called and concived and what happened in the womb. even satan himself respected those lifes in the womb before he slaughtered the children two and under. so in those aspects yes its a religious debate, but less attention to the debate less contraversoy.
and on sterlization: the pro choice crowd says its my body i can do what i want to a point. and its not a human but its a fetus. but yet the pro choicers say smoking is bad for you so you have to quit. you have to wear a sealbelt when driving in a car. (legislating the rights of the many for there own causes, but if we are all fetus's in the womb then arent we all jsut walking fetus's with no valve?) and then when it comes to the death penality, pro-choicers want to save lifes of criminals who 1) have commited haneous crimes,2) taken the life of someone or thier innocence, and forefited thier very rghts, and say when they were in the womb as a baby, (wait i thought is was jsut a fetus) fecual alchol sydrome and the yy chomisome defense and his mother being beat on all caused him to be this way. well wait if he or she was a fetus then it would not matter.
we all need to take a look at things and see how we perpetuate the debate, and stop.
take care of the root of the problem, people having sex. teach teens not too, teach condoms and abstinace. we do that then the abortion debate would go away. why shoot beebees at a battleship when you can sink a battleship with a tomahawk cruise missle?
get back to the basics and fundementals. the news media, the politicans, and the pre child issue.
 thadood38

Joined: 5/5/2009
Msg: 172
Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 10:05:54 AM
apainlessend, although I agree with you in spirit, men CAN sign away their parental rights. I'm not sure of the circumstances surrounding this legal action, but I know someone who did it.

Also it's kind of strange that no one has actually brought up what abortion literally is. The procedures themselves are completely depraved and it is difficult to reconcile healers doing it.

As I say my mother is a Nurse so she schooled me up on the whole process and....it's just upsetting to think about, no matter what you think the fetus' are. Abortions are this bizarre combination of medieval and high tech that I find rather repugnant.

I also had a friend who was a janitor at a local abortion clinic and he was really grossed out about what was in the "biohazard waste" bins he had to dispose of. He felt like the garbage man at the Texas Chainsaw Massacre house.

I think if people actually knew what abortion was, they might rethink the decision. This is why pro-life advocates would often picket with signs bearing the images of abortion. Incidentally that's what I was referring to when I said they did the same sort of "stunts" PETA does.

I find that I can't even write about it and if I did I might actually get banned by the mere horror of it. It is a blight on humanity that this sort of practice exists. I can't imagine being a Doctor that actually performed it.

But like I said, this is an individual decision. I'm not going to look down on someone who made this decision. Her reasons are her own and she doesn't deserve to be berrated about it. Nobody can know what that child's life would have been like, particul;arly if it were aborted because of a handicap.

To me, it feels like killing. To me a miscarriage feels like death, not some "end of a condition".

~Justin
 apainlessend

Joined: 4/5/2008
Msg: 173
Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 10:10:22 AM
apainlessend, although I agree with you in spirit, men CAN sign away their parental rights. I'm not sure of the circumstances surrounding this legal action, but I know someone who did it.


Only if both parents agree. He can sign away his rights all he wants, but she doesn't have to allow the financial restitution to be overlooked. So again short end of the stick.
You can op to sign away your paternal rights all you want, all that means is that the man has no say so in the upbringing of the child's life, or any decision making abilities. If he wants to thats fine, but she can still pursue both him, and his future wife financially.

not fair.




I think if people actually knew what abortion was, they might rethink the decision. This is why pro-life advocates would often picket with signs bearing the images of abortion. Incidentally that's what I was referring to when I said they did the same sort of "stunts" PETA does.



I've found that the heads of most activist groups only exist soley to leech free grant money and federal funding, to give jobs within their organization to friends. Peta being one of them.

If they focused their resources on child abuse, and domestic animal abuse, they would accomplish LEAGUES over what they've done so far.

Which is nothing. We still eat meat. We still cruelly murder innocent animals.

Wanna guess how much money they've received over the years to accomplish nothing?
Just guess.
It is freaking sickening. All paid for by our tax dollars, and donations.

and there is always this little checklist of politics supporters have to subscribe to.

Vegitarinism
inner arm tattoos
Free tibet
birkenstocks
Supporting gay rights. (When if they supported human rights, gay would be encompassed DOH!)
Pro-choice

Yet women and children are being raped and killed in Darfur.....but the resources are better spent on supporting:

Roe vs wade----which is never going to be overturned
And fighting for the lives animals---------which we are never going to stop eating meat.

Sigh....

p.s.
This is my last post for the day as I am still being stalked by a moderator who has limited me to 5 posts a day for the past year on the word of one of his forum buddies.

Sooo I'd like to take this time to let everyone know that...
I love divagreen.

Also, am still sore from her screwing my brains out last weekend.
Im so tactless.



 bgrumling

Joined: 2/28/2008
Msg: 174
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 10:20:01 AM
@cityhorsewoman:
I am sorry for the other day. I should not have said what i said about forigen citizens and politics in america. and please understand that my personal objections to abortion are nt based on religin. I am not a practing baptist at this point in my life. and its not based on conservitive views. its soley based on my expierence as a father who saw the ultra sounds and songrams and was thier when those two lives came into the world. thats all. and just to me once you see that child growing in the womb, and you can feel them kick in mamas tummy and you see them being born and you hold them, its really for me changed perspective. thats all. but i felt the need to apologize to you for gtting so heated and saying what i did. a good healthy debate is a good thing once in a while.
 bgrumling

Joined: 2/28/2008
Msg: 175
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Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 10:30:10 AM
i agree with you to an extent. we should have more focus on child abuse and neglect. and we should have more focus on domestic violence and abuse. But as a man being brought up by a father who was a john wayne fan (who was actually a p***y) you talk with violence. tim mcgraw said it best why dont grown men cry? now as for peta and eating animals, i believe in healthy management of the enviorment. too much of an animal species makes them starve but we should not extinct every animal on the planet either. we were given the command by god to manage. but the fact is human life is much more valuable and sanctified then animals. and when we protect the unborn innocence of life in humans then i am all for animal rights.
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