| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 10:36:53 AM | -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ bgrumbling
I appreciate the apology.
What we really have to look at is the whole position that surrounds a woman who becomes pregnant.
And as far as PETA, I'm not sure what their views are on hunting, but I do know their basic ideology is for the right to a decent life, no matter what the creature. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 10:47:12 AM | | and that i do agree with you on. animals have jsut as much right to be treated with decentcy and respect. I hate puppy mills and beaten and neglected animals. I was fourtunate enough to live near lsu vet school where they have a program where ederly and disabled people can take thier pets and live stock in for free and get vaccinations and check ups and be treated. but yes animals should have good humane lifes also | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 10:49:00 AM | now as for peta and eating animals, i believe in healthy management of the enviorment. too much of an animal species makes them starve but we should not extinct every animal on the planet either. we were given the command by god to manage. but the fact is human life is much more valuable and sanctified then animals. and when we protect the unborn innocence of life in humans then i am all for animal rights.
I read a book on the sentience of the non animate a while back, and it blew my mind.
Rocks have memory. Snow. Plastic. Everything we do is believed to be etched into the fabric of space. Sure, the inanimate my not experience things to our degree, as they don't have the preceptors, they still remember
Animals are leagues above the inanimate in terms of awareness.
And we supersede animals, as we are the only creatures who appear to be aware of TIME.
Other than that we are the same, which is why we fall in line with the category of mammal and not a division of our own. Im with you though. I've never understood the logic behind a peta person willing to die standing in front of a tree that a developer needs to knock down, yet is willing to kill an unborn child that never had to be given a Psyche (Life spark.) in the first place.
That spark, that initial burst of energy that we to this day do not understand...is considered by Tibetan monks to be the soul. So there lies a delicious humor (I just eat it up.) the the same people those f aux liberals in the Peta organization claim they want to free in Tibet, would completely disagree with their way of doing things. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 11:00:43 AM |
That was an interesting post Andrew Wiggen. I myself talk to my car, have a name for "her" and everything. Gertrude is made of metal, and metal was once a mineral taken from the earth.....and in a strange way, I do consider her "alive".
Anyways, it has been proven that trees and plants "feel" also.
But when you throw religion into this mix you don't examine all religions views, which differ greatly on this subject. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 11:06:05 AM | I only used religion as a reference to an organization involved with those who wish to free a specific religion of it's oppressors. Buddist monks are vegans. They even say a prayer of their food, and thank the plant for giving it's life.
Darfurians eat what they can meat or otherwise, so their rape and demise are apparently irrelevant. That and they are dark people. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 11:18:08 AM | bgrumling: So, it's a "fact" that human life is more valuable and "sanctified"? Where did you get this "fact" from? That's such a statement of complete arrogance, I don't even know where to even start my rant. No one creature really has any more right than any other. The luckiest and strongest stay alive the longest. End of story.
People keep repeating the same nonsense over and over and over in here without looking at the situation in a logical way for what it is. If some of the pro lifers that are foaming at the mouth over "killing" something that technically isn't really alive(actually not as developed as an insect) took that passion and directed towards actual living human beings with established lives, the world would be a lot better place. Unless you have never eaten meat or killed a bug, I would say you are a complete hypocrite if you're against abortion. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 11:18:26 AM |
The Buddist monks do not differ from some of the aboriginal (indians) as they would also pray and ask for forgiveness to the Great Spirit for the killing of a buffalo or deer. And most of PETA's members are also vegan. And although I applaud some of the topics they are passionate about, as a Canadian I got sick to death recieving unending e-mails about the killing of baby seals.....and although I may try seal meat if it was cooked, I don't appreciate their forcing of the masses into vegetarianism. I think that we should be able to make that decision for ourselves.
But yes, I agree with CW35 in that we should consentrate our efforts towards what already is "alive" instead of putting all this effort into guilt-tripping women who are struggling with an unwanted pregnancy. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 11:23:14 AM | took that passion and directed towards actual living human beings with established lives, the world would be a lot better place.
I could extrapolate on this topic, but you are so married to the abortion issue as being black or white, but I am simply going to say what my mamma says. Two wrongs don't make a right bro there are far to many other issues tied to pro life. Human rights supercede them as the other poster said. It isnt an issue about whether it is or isnt life, because you have no more proof that it is not life, than the prolifer that says it is.
So take that pompous arrogant bs out of this arena. If everyone is allowed their beliefs, yours are no better. All this by your own logic.
People keep repeating the same nonsense over and over and over in here without looking at the situation in a logical way for what it is.
Hello Pot, I'd like to introduce you to my friend Ms. Kettle.
She is foxy, and alot like you, but she is pro-life. So you better wrap it up.
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 11:42:24 AM | | Andrew: Um, you should try reading more. My statement isn't an "opinion". That's my point. Scientific facts are facts not "opinion" but people like yourself would rather jump on the drama wagon and spew the same crap and guilt trips till the end of time than calm down and look at the reality. Up to 24 weeks into a pregnancy you aren't "killing" anyone. After that I don't think it should be done. The science is pretty clear as to when there is actually a brain which it what people should be basing their decisions on and nothing else. It's not my "opinion" that the "brain" (actually the lack of one) of a 22 week old fetus is only as developed as a lobster's. It's a fact. I didn't make it up and it isn't my opinion. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 11:48:56 AM | Cause what you keep spewing isn't redundant? Yet here you are rambling on about about a science you aren't educated enough enough to comprehend.
Here is a thought: Dead things don't grow. And what is the opposite of dead?
Also, I am 100% pro-choice, which is my point. You've made up your pseudo-intellectual mind about people you know nothing about!
Were you not just ranting so arrogantly about the effort we should put into people?
Yet as opposed to showing people, you insult their levels of awareness and intellect.
You appear to have issues that exceed the boundaries of the quaint topic at hand. I am certain you have ran off plenty of women, by what you view as your intellectual intimidation, which is probably nothing more than you ranting about how you are so much more aware than the average person.
Go get laid. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 12:01:22 PM | I find that common values are an important part of a relationship. Our values don't have to be identical but they do need to be compatible.
I'm assuming by "pro-life" you mean anti-abortion. I know a number of people who are opposed to abortion but in favor of capital punishment, or care little for children after they are born, or do not care about access to health care, or the environment, or are hawkish and militaristic. I know people who are anti-abortion who do nothing to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. This does not fit my concept of "pro-life."
If someone were truly "pro-life" across the board and were willing to allow women the option to decide for themselves how to handle an unplanned pregnancy, then yeah, I could probably date them. However, if they would deny women the right to decide for themselves or were selectively "pro-life," then I could not respect them and there would be no point in a relationship. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 12:38:03 PM | | Andrew: Someone sounds like they're filled with an AWFUL lot of anger. I didn't say anything except the facts, yet you offered no real arguement to show me I'm wrong on this. I don't think I'm "smarter" than anybody else. I just read the facts of the whole abortion situation and came to a logical conclusion based on them. Not on religion. Not on some emotional tear jerking crusade. FACTS. When I say they aren't "alive" I meant in the human sense. Probably a bad choice of words on my part. The point I'm making is that they basically have the awareness of a lobster up until a certain number of weeks. This is a fact. Based on this fact, anyone who is so disgusted by abortion (before brain development) should be equally disgusted be the death of a lobster and more disgusted at the death of an insect. We have no more right to life than any other creature so why the complete hypocrisy? If you look at any of the pro life sites and see the venom being spewed against democrats and you see how religious the statements are, it's not hard to see that this is more about religious zealots and right wing fanatics than actually caring about children. It's funny that most pro life religious, right wing types hate abortion but LOVE guns and war. I guess they have no problem maiming young soldiers or children in foreign countries that actually have lives on the go. The whole thing is complete BS. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 12:41:48 PM |
If you look at any of the pro life sites and see the venom being spewed against democrats
There you go lumping people together again. Anger? Did you bother reading anything I said about you passing judgment on people you don't know? | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 4:08:58 PM | at this point in my life, I dont want kids yet but only because I could not support them and give them a good life
I do want kids, but for now, Id need whoever I slept with to use protection, and i'll do the same for them
I dont agree with the pro choice way, but it is something that exists and it always will. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 4:11:47 PM | | Andrew: The topic isn't whether or not I'm a judgemental ass*ole (everyone will probably agree that's just a given at this point), it's about abortion. I'm trying to tell you what the hard facts say and you keep getting emotional. How I come across to you or if I hurt people's "feelings" doesn't mean a thing (there's a bigger more serious issue here), but what the facts say does. So by the sounds of it you obviously think it's murder but yet you're pro choice. Can't quite wrap my head around the logic of that one. I also don't get why you're defending so called "pro life" people. Do just like to make nice with anyone at the cost of your own beliefs and pride, regardless of how hypocritical they are? (Sorry. "some of them are") Please fill me in because from where I sit you have no clue where you stand. You can always display your great intellect in the face of my obvious inferiority to you by poking fun at my sex life again since it's all you can come up with. If you lead me to anything...a book...an article...ANYTHING that doesn't come from some bible thumping, right wing anti abortion site with a bias, that scientifically says what I'm saying is wrong show it to me and I will definitely change my tune on the whole "murder" thing. I can't seem to find it. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 4:25:58 PM |
Andrew: The topic isn't whether or not I'm a judgemental ass*ole (everyone will probably agree that's just a given at this point), it's about abortion.
No the topic is on whether you would date a person with radically different ideals than you have. You are attempting to push your Pro choice agenda. Which is no different than Pro Lifers cramming it down my throat......so before you attempt to point out the pathetically obvious, (What you assumed to be the topic.) you should maybe read between the lines before you fly with it strapped to your back Icarus.
It's as if you are angry that people wont just accept your view on things. This isn't right or wrong you know. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 5:15:02 PM | | Andrew: You are SERIOUSLY thick headed. I don't have an "agenda". I'm not a religious fear monger, or republican, or the head of some secret organization. I'm just stating the facts that have scientific proof as I understand them. I just can't wrap my head around a group of people that try to tell me that even though there is hard scientific evidence proving what I'm saying is fact, it's just an opinion. In that case it's my opinion that the earth is round, the grass is green and there's 7 days in a week. Now there's three more of my opinions people can argue are false out of pure spite. It's hard for me to take the pro life movement seriously when every web page starts talking about Obama being controlled by satan and having web page headers that drip blood and try to bully and guilt-trip everyone into buying their false notions with their pictures of dead babies (which are probably from shady third world countries or are actual photographs of murder victims and NOT abortions). I'll say this one more time. Ignore your little grudge against my bad attitude and go read the facts on abortion. How can you be pro choice if you don't even believe in the stance you're taking?! Abortion before 24 weeks (maybe 28) is not murder. Abortion after this is murder but you will be hard pressed to find many truthful accounts of abortions being performed after this or in the ninth month or as the baby is actually being born like many religious sites would have you think. Considering the violent nature of "god" and "religion" I hardly think they are the people to listen to on this issue. I guess "god" hating abortion makes biblical sense though with the whole "sacrificing your first born" thing. There's your "pot meet kettle" right there. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 8:44:14 PM |
Can you date a pro-life advocate if you are pro-choice, and vice versa?
Yes.
Is there a way to find a happy medium with them?
Absolutely (so far, anyway!)
Good question, OP. That's precisely the situation I have right now with my s.o. I'm pro-choice, and always have been. He is pro-life, partially (I think) because he was brought up Catholic -- although he isn't currently practicing it.
So, how do we get along? Very well. Maybe because we got together relatively late in life (this is still my younger sweetie at the age of 40, and me getting ready to turn 47 in August!) We also have differing views on some political issues; he is definitely more conservative than I am, for example. But at the same time, we really enjoy some lively discussions...and most important, neither one of us ever, ever belittles the other for each viewpoint. That, I believe, is the key to making those "differences" work. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/22/2009 10:19:01 PM | CW35..that is far enough pal.
No agenda eh?
Just another hypocritical, sick group looking for a cause and using "god" as an excuse for their twisted violent intentions.
1. I am Pro life. I am also as secular as they come. Pro life and God are not synonymous.
Regardless of whether they exercise violence or not that lust for blood still exists.
2. That lust for blood is the same for alot of organizations. PETA included. Yet you appear fixated on one. All humans are genetically programmed with that lust for blood. Seeing as you appear to be the aficionado on how life evolves, I would assume you would know such a thing.
I may have exaggerated my point somewhat
3. Yes, people tend to do so when they need to win an argument that fits their agenda.
It's the same as these morons that agree with the death penalty.
4. They aren't morons, they are hypocrites, and this is only if they are Pro lifers who support it. And even then it is still a gray area. Don't get the gray area?
Here I'll show you.
Murdering someone for revenge because you hate people that murder others is a complete contradiction and utter nonsense.
5. The gray area of the death penalty. ^^You somehow believe that this makes you more elevated, and aware than your planet mates. You are wrong. If I found out that you molested a child, and I am sure any parent here would agree with it. YOU WOULD DESERVE TO DIE, if not by the parents hands, by the electric chair.
So are we morons for believing that you should die for abusing or murdering a child?
Let me remind you, that these are your own words.
You SERIOUSLY can't be that uninformed and ignorant. Technically, every sperm is alive as well. Ever had sex for fun? You've "murdered" millions if you have. Seriously where does this ridiculous drama end with pro-life people?
6. Sigh. I'll add this as part of the recap, but sense you are adding religion to this all...
"It is better for they sperm to go into the belly of a whore, than to fall to the scrapes of the earth."
I am sure I read that in scripture somewhere, but those religous people are never supposed to masturbate let alone abort a child. Soooo unless you are peeping through their windows and you may very well be, you will never know. You are applying what you believe to be true to the rest of the world and not doing a very good job of standing up to.....well yourself. (As best I can show you a mirror.)
I can't have ANY respect for hypocrites and I definitely can't take their point of view seriously. The root of this pro-life nonsense once again goes back to god and religion which somehow always manages to creep into almost everything in our society like the desease it is. Religion has no respect for any creatures other than humans (and that's a stretch) when it comes right down to it
7.Wow. Just wow. What on earth is a desease
She had "psychological" consequences because she wasn't strong enough to brush off the ridiculous guilt trips that people like you try to put forth with nonsensical "murder" talk. This combined with religious brainwashing that seeps into every pore of our society
8. If there was any...I mean any actual sexual brain washing that was actually accomplished by the religious (By the way, just out and say christian, or are you really categorizing all religions as the same?) community, then we would not have the abundance of unwed single mothers, and children born out of wedlock that we do now.
SO LET'S RECAP YOUR PAGE 8 STATEMENTS SHALL WE?!?!?
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cw35 said: Posted: 6/22/2009 11 08 AM
People keep repeating the same nonsense over and over and over in here
Then...
cw35 said: Posted: 6/22/2009 5 02 PM
I don't have an "agenda".
Even though he had no problem making his own repetitive statements, and condemning people who don't follow his agenda on several occasions as posted below.
1. Just another hypocritical, sick group
2. Regardless of whether they exercise violence or not that lust for blood still exists.
3. Seriously where does this ridiculous drama end with pro-life people?
4. The root of this pro-life nonsense once again goes back to god and religion
You just proved your own agenda, and made a ton of repetitive statements CW.
In which last I checked, when you chastise some one for something, and do the exact thing you criticized them for, it is called hypocrisy.
Let's revist how CW35 feels about hypocrisy.
I can't have ANY respect for hypocrites and I definitely can't take their point of view seriously.
So I assume you mean all of this in jest then, seeing as you aren't even taking yourself seriously?
HOW CAN YOU EXPECT ANYONE TO TAKE THIS STATEMENT SERIOUSLY
If some of the pro lifers that are foaming at the mouth over "killing" something that technically isn't really alive(actually not as developed as an insect) took that passion and directed towards actual living human beings with established lives, the world would be a lot better place.
When you aren't even attempting to do the same thing for people. You have done what all mediocre minds do when they wish to be heard, yet are intolerant of the voices of others.
You've become a carbon copy of that which you despise.
I'm telling you this for your own good kiddo. It aint worth it.
And as far as anyone assuming you to be a secret organization head.
You have neither the eloquence, nor the grammatical/spelling ability to pull off such a feat. Plus I've watched you place anyone who doesn't agree with you in the religious zealot box, with knowing little to nothing about them aside from that they are pro-life.
~APE
p.s.
Divagreen, I love you!!
p.p.s
Whatever old psychotic haggard worthless person is stalking my profile and reporting every picture I post of my woman, stop. It only makes you more pathetic. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/23/2009 5:52:18 AM | | steal a horse the horse doest not know he is being stolen. capture a lion he does not know where he is going. however the horses owner knows he was stolen andthe lions capture knows where he is going. the difference is this the awareness and conscience. man was breathed into by god himself, the other creatures were just formed. peta is a whole different story. P.=people E= eat T= the A= antilope. where i come from you are a memeber or peta you get shooted at. you hunt to feed the animals to those babies. and how are your convictions? if it came down to staving or eating would you shooot an animal and eat it? I know that if someone was breaking into my car or trying to hurt even my unborn child i would shoot them. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/23/2009 6:02:23 AM | cw here is some fact that wasent fact ten years ago: ergo medicine is not a true science so there fore your argument holds no water: science is truth based on fact: but fact at whose belief:
eggs: 10 years ago dont eat eggs they are bad for you: Today eat eggs they have a "healthy colesterol and eating three eggs in the moring is an appitite supressent for the rest of the day.
Coffee: cofee is bad for you 10 years ago: jsut within te last few month coffee is a way of controling prostrate and colon rectal cancer.
15 years ago: drink all the milk you want, its good for you: today milk can cause bone cancer
20 years ago sugar diabeties is brougt on by too much sugar: today its weight food intake and family history,
should i go on.................
now dont bring physcho;ogy into this:
20 years ago everyone was responsible for thier own crimes today everyone who commits a crime is physcotic.
so the very fact to me that you use science to formulate the argument about a child in the womb, dosent hold water. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/23/2009 6:12:37 AM | cw you do seem like an intellegent guy. so i am going to throw two things by you and before you respond off the cuff i want you to really think about them.
1st: would you abort the following child:
mom is a prostitute with physisillis. Dad is not a part of the childs life and when he is he beats on mom and the kids. you also know the child is going to be born deaf and to some extent blind. the kid will have the physilius gene in his blood all his life. the child is a burden to his parents and the state. there is also a chance the child will never speak and may be severly handicapped.
would you abort this child?
if so then congradulations you have just killed yohan sabastian bach
now the second is a statement you made: you said they have the conscience of a lobster or however you phrase it. But when you were starting your career for whatever you do, you had no practical expierence did you? you may have had collage which was what, learning about your particular job field, but you had no practical expierence until you actually started in the job. so in that aspect werent you also the same as that lobster? so should the company have fired you? no. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/23/2009 6:29:04 AM | i said this a few days ago. again i say it yes i am a prolifer not for religious of political reasons but because i got to see my chldren grow in the womb, was there when they kicked in the womb, was there at thier birth. that sealed it for me.
yes i am pro death peality: for rapists murders and child molesters: its power and control over the weak, so therefor the strongestg do survive even in nature the higherarchyand the crowd do win at injsutice.
but i believe this to the core:
1) poloticans keep the debate going so they can keep thier jobs.
2) the news media keeps the debate going because of senastionalism (they report just the facts the true facts, thats a boring newscast)
3) religion keep it perpetuated because we all have to have somthing to champion our causes and someone we hate.
4) scientists keep it going for the government funding, otherwise without the money thier toy boxes become empty and boring. (not like they could not work on a cure for aids or cancer that would do too much good and be to simple and without contraversy and then they would not get thier big grants funding and names).
and we the people are caught in the middle or stuck in the middle.
the fact is we should teach contraceptives, condoms and or abstiance. we go to the very core of the issue, which we all being sane can agree on, religious or scientific. boy meets girl, girl and boy intimate, boy and girl have baby on the way. so why dont we teach when boy and girl stop and think before intimate, we would not be having this debate. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/23/2009 6:50:39 AM | Dude? WTF? Are you serious? Both you and CW act the same.
1. Cw is psychotically pseudo liberal cramming his views down our throats.
2. bgrumling is psychotically pseudo conservative cramming his views down our throats.
You are both the exact same person on opposite ends of the spectrum, not allowing for any leniency or gray area for the opposition.
Oh, and conspicuously enough, neither of you can spell, yet fancy yourselves intelligent. | |
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| Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice in Dating *scary music swells*
Posted: 6/23/2009 7:06:26 AM | I've heard of many relationships that ended because she got pregnant, he wanted her to have the child and she aborted it. Yes, it's her body, but the developing human inside her body is part his too.
That issue strikes at the very core of many's beliefs and core values, so, while you can DATE someone with a different viewpoint, if the condom fails and she ends up getting pregnant, if you don't see eye-to-eye on this, it'll be devastating to the pro-lifer and will be the end of the relationship.
It's good to have the talk after you've had sex (with protection) I'd say 3 times. Y'know, the "what if we had an 'oops'..." talk.
If my woman got pregnant, I'd try to persuade her to have the kid. "It'll be OK..." If she was absolutely hell-bent on aborting the kid, I'd respect her wishes and let her, but I'd be devastated, and would leave her. She's killing a part of me too. | |
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