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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 6/29/2009 9:29:52 PM |
Oh Come On you big tough rightweiners admit defeat! Oh I mean't right wingers I'm so sorry I really am...You can't answer the question because you would illegally cross the border wouldn't you??? I love being right.
So what if I would? I'd also steal bread if I was starving. That doesn't mean I think that bread theft should be decriminalized, and that I wouldn't be willing to face my penalty like a man if I was caught stealing the bread. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/1/2009 2:21:20 PM | By SUZANNE GAMBOA, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - Immigration officers are investigating workplaces in every state in the U.S. to check whether they are hiring illegal workers.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement told members of Congress in an e-mail Wednesday morning that it is beginning audits of documents that employees fill out when they are hired. The documents are known as I-9's.
President Barack Obama has said his administration's strategy for stemming illegal immigration is focusing on employers who hire illegal workers.
The Bush administration was criticized for raiding businesses and arresting workers but not doing enough to go after the employers who hire them.
Isnt just like a Liberalcrat...picking on hard working business owners... | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 12:24:01 PM |
Isnt just like a Liberalcrat...picking on hard working business owners...
Yeah a hard working business owner that is employing illegal workers and thus breaking the law. A hard working business owner that is paying a reduced wage and therefore lowering wages for American workers. A hard working business owner that could be paying illegals under the table and thus not paying proper taxes. And lastly, a hard working business owner that is only concerned with his own profits and does not worry about the damage he is doing to the economic fabric of the United States.
That is something to be proud of. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 12:37:58 PM |
Yeah a hard working business owner that is employing illegal workers and thus breaking the law. A hard working business owner that is paying a reduced wage and therefore lowering wages for American workers. A hard working business owner that could be paying illegals under the table and thus not paying proper taxes. And lastly, a hard working business owner that is only concerned with his own profits and does not worry about the damage he is doing to the economic fabric of the United States.
That is something to be proud of.
While I agree with the fact that there are some legal and ethical problems with this, and while the number one goals of almost all business owners is profits, there is also fault to be placed upon the American consumer as well who demand low priced products. It really does become a vicious circle. No, I can't say for sure how much prices would increase without illegal immigrant workers, however, simple economic would say that if you increase the cost of overhead, that has to be picked up somewhere, and in almost all cases, that is passed onto the consumer. Like I said, I'm not going to say that the price of a pound of bananas is going to go up to $10 without illegal immigrant workers, but I would suggest that the price would go upto at least $1/pound because of the increase in cost of overhead. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 12:51:11 PM | Unfortunately the benefits of illegal immigrant labor are mostly extended to the business owner and not passed on to the consumer. As this catastrophic wave of illegal immigrants has grown in this country over the last several years the cost of consumer goods and services has steadily risen.
Up until the housing market crashed the cost of new homes was growing out of control while illegal immigrant labor grew. The disparity between illegal immigrant wages and standard American wages fell solely to the builders bottom line and was not passed on to consumers. The same is true in manufacturing and the service sector. The only thing that has benefited business profit margins.
Like everything else that currently drives this country greed is the impetus behind this movement. Until such time as Wall Street's expectations of profit levels are tempered you will continue to see businesses engaged in this type of detrimental behavior. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 1:22:21 PM |
Unfortunately the benefits of illegal immigrant labor are mostly extended to the business owner and not passed on to the consumer. As this catastrophic wave of illegal immigrants has grown in this country over the last several years the cost of consumer goods and services has steadily risen.
Well, there were several other factors in the rising cost of goods and services including but not limited to energy and supply costs. If it weren't for illegal Immigrant workers, I believe that those increases would've been much more severe than they were.
Up until the housing market crashed the cost of new homes was growing out of control while illegal immigrant labor grew. The disparity between illegal immigrant wages and standard American wages fell solely to the builders bottom line and was not passed on to consumers. The same is true in manufacturing and the service sector. The only thing that has benefited business profit margins.
Again, there were other factors. The cost of steel increased, the cost of transporting materials, taxes increased, the cost of materials themselves increased. Again, there are several other factors that were taken into consideration outside of illegal immigrant workers.
Like everything else that currently drives this country greed is the impetus behind this movement. Until such time as Wall Street's expectations of profit levels are tempered you will continue to see businesses engaged in this type of detrimental behavior.
Yes, greed does drive this country. I can't argue with that. However, to say you have a headache because your head hurts and ignore the fact that half your body is paralyzed doesn't really look at the whole picture. Wages, and those paid to illegal immigrants is just a small piece of the puzzle in costs. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 2:53:40 PM |
Well, there were several other factors in the rising cost of goods and services including but not limited to energy and supply costs.
Again, there were other factors. The cost of steel increased, the cost of transporting materials, taxes increased, the cost of materials themselves increased. Again, there are several other factors that were taken into consideration outside of illegal immigrant workers.
Thank you for inadvertently proving my point.
As you have so astutely observed there were a multitude of other factors that continued to increase in price over time. These factors impacted all businesses in a sector fairly equally. These factors are what would be considered noncontrollable costs.
While the material needs of a business are noncontrollable costs as the market sets those prices, labor is a controllable cost for a business. You can control your labor costs though several ways. Employee count, controlling overtime and wages are the most important factors in labor costs. Some businesses made the decision to use illegal immigrant labor in order to lessen their labor costs. However, they continued to sell their goods and services at the same market rates as those businesses that lost their integrity and ethical foundation and employed illegal immigrant labor.
Again, the use of illegal immigrant labor only benefited the greedy business owners and corporations and did not benefit the American consumer. Additionally, it continues to erode the economic and ethical fabric of the country. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 3:55:46 PM |
Thank you for inadvertently proving my point.
As you have so astutely observed there were a multitude of other factors that continued to increase in price over time. These factors impacted all businesses in a sector fairly equally. These factors are what would be considered noncontrollable costs.
While the material needs of a business are noncontrollable costs as the market sets those prices, labor is a controllable cost for a business. You can control your labor costs though several ways. Employee count, controlling overtime and wages are the most important factors in labor costs. Some businesses made the decision to use illegal immigrant labor in order to lessen their labor costs. However, they continued to sell their goods and services at the same market rates as those businesses that lost their integrity and ethical foundation and employed illegal immigrant labor.
Again, the use of illegal immigrant labor only benefited the greedy business owners and corporations and did not benefit the American consumer. Additionally, it continues to erode the economic and ethical fabric of the country.
So your argument would be that if you threw out ALL of the illegal immigrants, that prices would remain stable? Honestly, I just don't see it, especially in the light of the current economic status, but hey, if you can somehow prove it, more power to you. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 4:31:54 PM |
Additionally, it continues to erode the economic and ethical fabric of the country.
When has this country, Not used cheap labor. Before there was an "America", the colonies used indentured sevents, children(orphans), and prisoners as a part of their labor force. In its infancy this country relied heavily on slaves and poor whites; after salvery, migratory workers have been the norm...
This idea of not using cheap labor is a new-un proven idea. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 4:53:02 PM |
So your argument would be that if you threw out ALL of the illegal immigrants, that prices would remain stable? Honestly, I just don't see it, especially in the light of the current economic status, but hey, if you can somehow prove it, more power to you.
You really don't understand do you? Illegal immigrant labor has been used to boost profit levels for companies. These are now the desired profit levels. Eliminating illegal immigrant labor would indeed drive prices up as businesses and investors now rely on the artificially high profits that have been gained with this labor group.
What you are mistaken in is that illegal immigrant labor cost savings have been passed along to the consumers.
When has this country, Not used cheap labor. Before there was an "America", the colonies used indentured sevents, children(orphans), and prisoners as a part of their labor force. In its infancy this country relied heavily on slaves and poor whites; after salvery, migratory workers have been the norm...
How is hundreds of years ago relevant to this situation today? Additionally, those labor practices you mentioned; indentured servants, child labor, slave labor, prisoners are all illegal and have been for years.
Migratory have been used in the agricultural area for years. However they were for the most part here legally or left at the end of the season and went home.
SaGuy, we all get that you want a Hispanic America. However, your arguments need to make sense and have some logic behind them. Otherwise you just look like an ass. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 5:13:28 PM |
You really don't understand do you? Illegal immigrant labor has been used to boost profit levels for companies. These are now the desired profit levels. Eliminating illegal immigrant labor would indeed drive prices up as businesses and investors now rely on the artificially high profits that have been gained with this labor group.
What you are mistaken in is that illegal immigrant labor cost savings have been passed along to the consumers.
No, I just completely disagree that there has been savings that have been passed onto the consumer by the use of illegal immigrant labor. Theoretically, it doesn't make sense. And on a practical stand point, it doesn't make sense. But since neither of us have an economics degree, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the boarder into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 5:27:26 PM | One of the saddest things I have ever had to witness was a man that the police had picked up and brought to the hospital that was mexican . He was an older gentleman aproximately 65-70 and he had worked as a migrant worker in New Mexico for years. He had some major lung issues that had caused him to collapse in the street. He probably worked for 2.00 an hour in the fields for years with no health insurance and lived incognito in a cramed trailer house with many others. Because he fell on the US side we took care of him but the minute he was able to get up and walk around in a walker they picked him up out of the hospital and transported him across the border walker in hand. Now what is he supposed to do? He helped put food on the farmers table for cheap for years and now that he is old and ill we put him back on the street? I know that there are 2 sides to every story and yes we can't just pay for everyone but it just felt wrong to me. If I were in that situation I would leave Mexico just like all the others have. I have been to Mexico and not just in the tourist places and it can be heeeeeeeeel. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 5:28:24 PM |
No, I just completely disagree that there has been savings that have been passed onto the consumer by the use of illegal immigrant labor. Theoretically, it doesn't make sense. And on a practical stand point, it doesn't make sense. But since neither of us have an economics degree, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
I am sorry that logic and common sense both elude you. You don't have to have a degree in economics to understand this. Just common sense and logic. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/3/2009 6:01:40 PM |
I am sorry that logic and common sense both elude you. You don't have to have a degree in economics to understand this. Just common sense and logic.
And I am sorry that critical thinking skills elude you. Your right, you don't have to have a degree in economic to understand this, just critical thinking skills. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/4/2009 6:52:25 AM |
How is hundreds of years ago relevant to this situation today? Additionally, those labor practices you mentioned; indentured servants, child labor, slave labor, prisoners are all illegal and have been for years.
It is relevant to your satement that illegal workers are eroding the economic and ethical fabric of america...My point was to show that cheap labor has been a part of our country's history and remains to this day.
There were Mexicans picking cotton in Mississippi, that I know of, only 40 years after the Civil War. Black folk left the fields and went to Northren cities for a better life. With the loss of slave labor Farmers had to turn to the next alternative; poor Blacks, Mexicans, and poor Whites.
With economic advancement of all groups , Mexicans have continued to be a steady and reliable work force for American Business. Capitalisim is what it is. The bottom dollar has always been the driving factor in American Business.
.................................................................................................................... $9.25 ph DO NOT REFER WITHOUT HARDCOPY. TEMPORARY EMPLOYMENT FROM march 1, 2009 THRU 12/30/2009.EMPLOYMENT ELIGIBILITY VERIFICATION REQUIRED. CLEARANCE ORDER. SEE CONTACT INSTRUCTIONS. PLANT , CULTIVATE AND HARVEST CROPS ON DIVERSIFIED CROP FARM SUCH AS HAY, OATS, TOMATOES , BEANS, SQUASH, PEPPERS , CORN , OKRA BROCCOLI AND ONIONS. PLANTS ROOTS, SEEDS OR BULBS, USING HOE OR TROWEL. WEEDS AND THINS PLANTS USING HOE. HARVEST CROPS USING APPROPRIATE METHOD , SUCH AS PICKING, PULLING , OR CUTTING.
this is from our local want adds...Its 101Degrees here,and will be for the next 3 months...Im sure some hardy Texan will take the job, but how many of you would work in 100 degree heat, for 10-12 hours a day for 9.00 dollars an hour? | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/4/2009 7:30:46 AM | It is relevant to your satement that illegal workers are eroding the economic and ethical fabric of america...My point was to show that cheap labor has been a part of our country's history and remains to this day.
There is a huge difference between cheap labor and illegal labor. I am sorry you cannot recognize that fact and that you continue to use that as the basis of your defense of illegal aliens. That puts your defense on a very shaky foundation.
there were Mexicans picking cotton in Mississippi, that I know of, only 40 years after the Civil War. Black folk left the fields and went to Northren cities for a better life. With the loss of slave labor Farmers had to turn to the next alternative; poor Blacks, Mexicans, and poor Whites.
Was it illegal then? I don't believe they were law breaking illegal immigrants 40 years after the civil war. Do you think there were formal immigration laws or labor laws in existence during this time? You keep bringing up examples that do not support your position.
Illegal immigrant labor does, in fact continue to erode both the economic and ethical fabric of the country. Illegal immigrant labor is driving down wages across a broad spectrum of industries. This labor pool is not limited to the agricultural community that you keep touting. Manufacturing jobs that once paid a livable wage are now paying poverty wages. Look in the manufacturing facilities of today. There is a reason why they are staffed predominantly with Hispanic workers. that reason is not because they are the best qualified, it is because they will work much cheaper than an American citizen. Additionally, they will accept all kinds of substandard working conditions as they will not resort to any type of appeals process as they fear being recognized as illegal and being deported.
Illegal immigrant labor is tearing asunder the ethical fabric of the country as well. Both the illegal immigrants and the companies that employ them are knowingly and willingly breaking the law. Our Government is implicit in this as they continue to look the other way. Other than an occasional token raid of an employer the Government continues to condone this illegal activity as they are in bed with big business.
The fact of the matter is that illegal immigrants are in fact taking jobs away from American citizens and legal temporary workers and this needs to be stopped immediately. Until such time that every American desiring a job is employed these illegal workers need to go away. If the time comes when we have more jobs than people to do them, or there is in fact a job that an American won't do then they can go through the proper channels and get a work visa and take those surplus jobs. Until such time they need to get out of our country as they are criminals.
As for your job ad....... In this economy I would venture to guess that there are plenty of American workers willing to take that job. If I wasn't working I would do it in a heartbeat as would many Americans. The problem is, I would not be hired as I don't fit the profile they want. These employers want the illegal labor.
Face it, no matter how much you promote and support these criminal illegal immigrants it honestly is an indefensible position. You have failed to come up with one solid, defensible, factual reason for us to allow illegal immigrants to continue to work in this country. What other criminal activities do you support?
What if an illegal immigrant broke into your house, assaulted you and robbed you. would you have the same attitude? Would you say that it is okay because they are just here to make a better life for them and their family. That they come from an impoverished background and they are just doing what they have to do to improve their life? I don't think you would accept that and I don't think you would support that. You would want that person arrested and pay the price for their illegal activities.
We cannot continue to ignore one set of laws and enforce others. It damages the moral and ethical fabric of the country. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/5/2009 6:07:52 PM | I would be very interested in hearing from a legal citizen who has actually lost a job to an illegal alien. I've known families that were here illegally, and I've known businessmen who hired them to work on their berry farms. I keep reading about the 'illegals' stealing jobs, but I've never talked to anyone who had the experience of losing a job to an illegal alien.
Anyone? | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/5/2009 9:33:58 PM | I have lost several jobs to illegal aliens they were shit jobs as the only jobs someone could get with brain damage..Right now there a drunk illegal alien in the yard complements of his girlfriend and he's threatening...Wants to fight but that's one ***hole..White people can be ***holes too..Besides I'm crippled and if he breaks in it's going to get ugly..I'd like to keep that from happening, since he's a neighbor and a likeable guy when he's sober..Actually white guys have taken jobs from me too I had a boss one time steal from our employer to the tune of 400,000 dollars and make it look like I did it..I couldn't get a job anywhere that jerk totally screwed up my life...I had an asian guy fire me once also all asians must be bad..And black people too, Ahhh they must all be bad everyone knows white is the supreme race... I do believe that everyone that is here illegally should go home then apply to become legal citizens of whereever they want to live..But if I was in Mexico and it was my country I'd hop over the border too actually today I'd float over like a whale, when I was younger I'd hop.. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/5/2009 9:35:57 PM | Where I live, I see illegals with jobs I'd love to have, all the time.
I'm a student, and was a few years ago too. In those times, I witnessed illegals performing jobs I'd love to have - mostly as bussers/greeters/kitchen help.
The feeling you get when you see someone being paid for a job you need - someone who doesn't even speak English, wasn't born here, who no doubt receives the medical care and welfare you need but don't qualify for because you chose not to recklessly push out a bunch of anchor puppies - that is indeed a strange, rage-filled feeling.
These things all begin to add up and erode your faith in the country you were born in. | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/5/2009 9:49:06 PM | I'm a student, and was a few years ago too. In those times, I witnessed illegals performing jobs I'd love to have - mostly as bussers/greeters/kitchen help.
The feeling you get when you see someone being paid for a job you need - someone who doesn't even speak English, wasn't born here, who no doubt receives the medical care and welfare you need but don't qualify for because you chose not to recklessly push out a bunch of anchor puppies - that is indeed a strange, rage-filled feeling.
Did you know they were illegals? And, if so, how did you know? Did you actually apply for those jobs, or just wish you had them? (I appreciate you answering my questions--thanks!)
And...what is an 'anchor puppy'? | |
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| If you were Mexican and you knew that by crossing the border into America..... Posted: 7/5/2009 10:27:43 PM | Yes I did know they were illegals. And no, I didn't apply for their job. What would be the point, when the position was already filled by the illegal?
Come on...anchor baby? A baby an illegal has (first or millionth of many) to get welfare.
I'm guessing you don't live around illegals. If you did, you'd know where I was coming from. | |
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