|
|
|
|
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:02:27 PM |
I'd forgotten till I read your comment and was wondering wtf you meant by it, that in the US state police are usually called troopers. I was using trooper to mean a non-commissioned soldier, which is how it's used north of the border.
There is a difference between State Trooper and National Guardsman here in the states. A state trooper is a member of the law enforcement. A National Guardsman is a member of the Armed Forces | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:06:38 PM |
There is a difference between State Trooper and National Guardsman here in the states. A state trooper is a member of the law enforcement. A National Guardsman is a member of the Armed Forces
As I just said, I'm aware of that - but I'm in Canada, and I used trooper the way it's used here.
I speak English, Russian, some French, and can order a beer in Innuktituk. Forgive me if my American is a little rusty. | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:14:03 PM |
As I just said, I'm aware of that - but I'm in Canada, and I used trooper the way it's used here.
I speak English, Russian, some French, and can order a beer in Innuktituk. Forgive me if my American is a little rusty.
Just wanted to be clear on our terminology so there was no confusion. Sorry if it came across as being an insult.
BTW, I can speak English, Spanish, Japanese, and American Sign Language, as well as quite a bit of Klingon. | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:33:02 PM | and here in Canada we had the military operation at Oka against the Mowhawk Warriors. I know that the only fatality was a non-native Police Officer but the situation could have easily spiraled out of hand. Infact we managed to 'screw' our minority so much that they are few and descimated (for the most part) and therefore it is unneccissary to oppress them with the gun. Unless you mention the thousands of dogs we shot, and the thousands of children we took from their parents.
What goes on in other countries is really no different than what goes on at home. We all need to examine ourselves more than we point fingers at others. The same principles that apply to us personally we need to apply to politics as well.
Frankly speaking, and back to the topic, the Bush Elections were more suspect than the Iranian elections. It is unfortunate that there is violence there (in Iran). We need to strongly condemn any killing, government or otherwise. If it was the government that did the killing than yes, the international media needs to report this and condemnations and perhaps consequences should result. But... to paint Iran as a 'bad guy' when, really, they are a moral society, as much or as little as most other countries, is a violent act. I would also suggest that there be an immediate investigation of all covert activities going on in Iran/Pertaining to Iran, because I am sure that blackOps are busy, busy, busy. Creating news perhaps.
Again you'll asks for proof. My proof is history, it's always happening. Read the scandals, Iran-Contra, Iraq War, El-Salvador, Chile... and know that this is business as usual. We cannot be simpletons when it comes to politics. Sure Iran has problems, and yes again killing is bad, but we are killing too, and that is just as bad. We have all kinds of justifications for our wars... but you know what, so do they. But we say, our justifications are true... but you know what, so do they. Iran as far as I am concerned is a newly and mostly democratic country reeling from the shock of international interference, war, and its resources.
Furthermore, there is an active engagement to twist the words of the President of Iran and the media is a complicit part of this. I encourage anyone to read the scripts of his speeches rather than the interpretations given through mass media filters. While I do not agree personally with much of what he says (monotheism being the way for all...but that's him appealing to his voter base just like Bush or Obama), some of it does make sense and deserves consideration.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iran/2005/iran-050918-irna02.htm
it is a long speech, the second part is particularily interesting. | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/2/2009 3:16:22 PM | @ezzee
as well as quite a bit of Klingon.
Let's stay the hell away from that. If we start getting to geek cred wars, it's just going to get nasy, and we'll both wind up looking like we're still living in our mother's basements.
Trust me, I like living in Canada, I wouldn't want to living in the middle east.
@xzanthius
I just hope that you realize that living in Canada is one of the reasons you can have such a one-sided, divorced from reality view of the world. It's sad that the people who take the most advantage of the freedom and security we have are also usually the ones least aware of just how lucky they are - and how NOT lucky others in the world are.
Infact we managed to 'screw' our minority so much that they are few and descimated (for the most part) and therefore it is unneccissary to oppress them with the gun. Unless you mention the thousands of dogs we shot, and the thousands of children we took from their parents.
Wow.
(Generalizing, because I don't feel like writing a treatise on the subject).
The native population has basically never been subjected martially. The vast majority were negotiated with, and signed treaties - the experience here is Canada is much different than it was in the USA. That's one of the reasons WHY you have things like Oka - the fight to have the treaties enforced. Is the system perfect? No, not by a long shot. Have there been injustices? HELL, yes.
What goes on in other countries is really no different than what goes on at home. We all need to examine ourselves more than we point fingers at others. The same principles that apply to us personally we need to apply to politics as well.
To equate what has happened even to the native population of Canada with some of the things that go on in the rest of the world shows an appalling lack of knowledge of history, or even current events.
What goes on in other countries is really no different than what goes on at home. We all need to examine ourselves more than we point fingers at others. The same principles that apply to us personally we need to apply to politics as well.
And just who are we killing here?
Iran as far as I am concerned is a newly and mostly democratic country reeling from the shock of international interference, war, and its resources.
On paper, the most democratic country in history (excluding the original greek city-states) was the Soviet Union. Try reading their constitution sometime - it's beautiful. | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/2/2009 3:42:04 PM | To equate what has happened even to the native population of Canada with some of the things that go on in the rest of the world shows an appalling lack of knowledge of history, or even current events.
I am not equating... that would be saying that they are the same, and they are not. Different situations require different methods. I am comparing however because in both cases injustices were committed.
We are killing (Canadians) Afghannis (pardon my spelling). We are complicit to the killing of others.
The native population of Canada did never needed to be martially controlled. They largely were a spread out, peaceful people and were easily subverted through other means. What matters is that they were controlled, at any cost. That is the order of the day for a government. The most unstable the government the more drastic might be it's domestic repression and that is why we should be encouraging stability in Iran not antagonizing it.
We (the West) have managed to export our repression outside of our borders. Our bullets generally do not kill our citizens, our bullets somehow find their way into other hearts.
I just hope that you realize that living in Canada is one of the reasons you can have such a one-sided, divorced from reality view of the world. It's sad that the people who take the most advantage of the freedom and security we have are also usually the ones least aware of just how lucky they are - and how NOT lucky others in the world are.
I hope that you realize the irony of making such sweeping assumptions. I am using my freedom to say what I see what makes you think that I don't apreciate that. I also see how tenuous that freedom can be, even here in the 1st world.
I am lucky that I don't live in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Iran... meddling of foreign power have destroyed those places creating radical religious movements that really suck the joy out of life. | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/2/2009 4:18:45 PM | For all the sabre-rattling by the Western media, there is not a shred of evidence which actually PROVES it was a rigged election. The Americans in particular have no right whatsoever to bleat on about flawed elections, anyway. OR their choice of leader, for that matter.
Then again, why am I surprised at the public's over-reaction? Millions still believe the "Ahmadinejad wants to wipe Israel off the map" lie, even though every Professor of Farsi (the Iranian language, one of the oldest Indo-European languages) from here to eternity has confirmed it was a blatant mistranslation.
Whatever sells tabloids (or drums up support for the rogue state of Israel), eh? | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/2/2009 4:58:31 PM | I really dont see how the troubles in Iran could be laid at the US's door.
Unless Obama is saying one thing to us here and another to "them" he is keeping a lets wait and see attitude.
Oh, but I forgot, it is Bush's fault, and in no way could the people of Iran do anything as revolutionary as to well start a revolution on their own. | |
|
wudger
|
Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 84 | |
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/2/2009 9:59:42 PM | "Oh, but I forgot, it is Bush's fault, and in no way could the people of Iran do anything as revolutionary as to well start a revolution on their own."
brilliant thinking there. how do you think they got rid of the shah in the first place. we propped him up, supplied his secret police with advice and technology to spy on his population and gave him money galore. eventually the iranians kicked him and us out.
just why should they trust us now? not to mention that they are obviously having a revolution of their own, though not the shooting kind that you're looking for. | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/3/2009 6:15:42 AM |
The real issue? The real issue is that the president of Iran won the elections fair and square but because The States doesn't like that (well certain parts of its government) there is all kinds of behind the scenes agitatating going on.
You really believe this election (in which all of the candidates who were running in it were hand picked by the mullah's who are really in charge) was fair and honest? As I said before, you have no clue what's going on in Iran do you? This election was about as fair as the old "Heads I win, Tails you lose" coin toss.
BTW I have this bridge here that I would like to sell ya?
The media is biased. I am only pointing that out. Trust me, I like living in Canada, I wouldn't want to living in the middle east.
But why not? Didn't you just claim that Iran has free and fair elections? Your statement above proves my point. Thank you! | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/3/2009 6:48:05 AM | ^^^^
My arn't you quick to jump to conclusions.
I also wouldn't want to live in the States, Taiwan, Mexico, and Thailand, all democratic countries that I have lived in in the past. There is more to where i want to be than having free and fair elections. Not to mention the fact that Iran is a religious state and I am not religious.
Figure's you'd try to sell me a bridge you don't even own. | |
|
wudger
|
Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 87 | |
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/3/2009 7:15:04 AM |
4 people were killed in the Kent State Univesity issue. Which is debatable because they had basically destroyed the city prior to the arrival of the National Guard and were combative even after being ordered to leave the area.
man, thats some historical inaccuracy. the protests were confined to the campus, no property was destroyed and the protesters were unarmed and facing troops in full battle dress with live ammunition.
if you would like a number of further examples of some similar events in the US just check out the history of organized labor. | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/3/2009 7:18:30 AM |
You really believe this election (in which all of the candidates who were running in it were hand picked by the mullah's who are really in charge) was fair and honest? As I said before, you have no clue what's going on in Iran do you? This election was about as fair as the old "Heads I win, Tails you lose" coin toss.
BTW I have this bridge here that I would like to sell ya?
That is because Iran is not technically a democracy (Well, for that matter, neither is the US or any other country for the most part.) Iran is what is called a Theocracy. What that means is that the state is ruled by the religious leaders of the state, and while there are elections, the contenders, as you stated, must be certified (not hand picked) by the religious leaders. The election itself was still a fair election. Just because you don't like the way they chose those people on the ballot doesn't mean it wasn't fair. Again, it's a different system of government.
As far as that bridge goes, I'll give you $1 for it, as long as I can blow it up when I'm done.
Again, though, it's a completely different system in an autonomous state. Let them have their system of government, and if they want to change it, they will. But their Theocracy seems to be working just fine. | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/3/2009 10:57:46 AM |
brilliant thinking there. how do you think they got rid of the shah in the first place. we propped him up, supplied his secret police with advice and technology to spy on his population and gave him money galore. eventually the iranians kicked him and us out.
that was my point, the Iranians are capable of making their own changes with out us.
just why should they trust us now?
speaking only for myself I dont trust our government or any government a whole lot, and I dont think anyone or any country should
not to mention that they are obviously having a revolution of their own, though not the shooting kind that you're looking for.
I dont know if you were addressing this to me as well, but if you are, where did you get the idea that I wanted a "shooting kind" of revolution?
Author: soisaid | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/3/2009 5:36:07 PM |
that was my point, the Iranians are capable of making their own changes with out us.
Isn't that the truth. They really are an amazing people. Their ability to unify into such a formidable group of citizens that can shake the world is exactly why the regime wants to implicate the West as interlopers and why we should say as little as possible. Getting into the middle of it in any way even with rhetoric would be like getting between two brothers fighting each other, they will turn and both pommel you together. | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/3/2009 6:12:53 PM | | What is wrong with you people...Obama is condemning the slaughtering of the protestors, of blackening out the news media, of arresting those who are dissenting...and it is the HUMANE duty of other countries to get involved when there is chaos and murder being perpetuated by "govt." Are you insane................. | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/3/2009 6:17:40 PM | Twilight...paleeeeez:
go watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FckLO8HcNyo&feature=related | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/4/2009 6:06:06 AM | Then please try this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWjYHP91gA&NR=1
There are no sinless governments. Ideals are just noble words written on paper, real politiks is about lies, intimidation, proganda, manipulation, etc.
Iran is not a perfect state, far from it.
but they did have elections, the international community vouched for their authenticity, so the protesters right now are acting illegally. They should be treated humanely (which they are not) but they are not pure victims.
What I object to is the manipulation of the everyday person to believe that Iran is an EVIL state (axis of evil). | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/4/2009 7:12:01 AM | Uhhh, yes they are pure victims. When was the last time your life was at stake because you protested about anything. How free do you feel to get on these forums, show your face and say anything you want. How can you even utter the words about it not being an EVIL state when people are coerced into agreeing at threat for their lives if they openly disagree...where journalists are arrested and put on trial...where the head of government throws Holocaust cartoon contests. If THAT's not pure evil to you, then you have a serious disconnnect somewhere.
Your site is accomplishing just what it wants; it's anti-Israel one-sided propoganda, headed by anti-semites.. Where's the video of Hamas using their people as shields?
Where are these quotes: (which actually I just read on another post and thought appropriate here...)
(May 15, 1948), Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League, at Cairo press conference, (reported in the New York Times, May 16, 1948) declared "jihad", a holy war. He then stated:
"This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades".
"We desire death like you desire life."
Try living side by side with that!
| |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/4/2009 7:30:58 AM | I take it back... yes most likely the people who have died were pure victims. I apologize to them and to their families.
I would like to underline however that pure victims are the order of the day with regards to the dirty politiks that probably all countries practice. Iran is not really all that different and I suspect that there is more to the recent protests than the media has uncovered. | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/4/2009 7:39:21 AM | reading the posts that are trying to justify and then excuse our government for the killing at kent state is not only amazing bur scary on every level
america loves saudi arabia (especially their oil), woman have no rights there, they practice stoning, yet we shake hands with their "leaders", aren't they "evil" too?
china has a strong hold on its citizens, yet they all but own the united states
who america deems as "evil", is usually defined by what we are getting or not getting from that country, if you think it's because of our ethical or moral stance- then your medication may be too strong | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/4/2009 11:44:42 AM |
Your site is accomplishing just what it wants; it's anti-Israel one-sided propoganda, headed by anti-semites.. [/quote}
There is a BIG difference between being an anti-semite (racist) and anti-isreal (political stance). Furthermore it cannot be one-sided at you as here representing. I suggest that you look up Noam Chomsky, a very intelligence (and Jewish) intellecual who will no doubt teach you a few things about Isreal | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/4/2009 1:22:06 PM | | My speaking on this post has nothing to do with that site being one-sided...the definition of one sided is when it only gives one side. Do you see anything on that site that speaks of the Israeli stance? | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/4/2009 3:47:25 PM | msg. 101:
Iran is not a perfect state, far from it.
but they did have elections, the international community vouched for their authenticity...
"the international community vouched for their authenticity" ? Are you listening to a different international community than the one I've been hearing?
*****
Iran Election Questions: Noam Chomsky's Speculation"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk04v2yq4PQ&annotation_id=annotation_571895&feature=iv
Please note that Professor Chomsky spoke on June 17, 2009. He speculated even then that Ahmedinijad and company were afraid that they hadn’t won convincingly enough to avoid a runoff (if they had won at all) so they appear to have rigged the vote count. Yes, he points out that in the West elections aren’t perfect either. Chomsky tries to be fair-minded and balanced. Unfortunately it appears to me that his words are used out of context and exploited when convenient by some who are less fair-minded than he is. Lots of ‘thumpers do this with the words in the Bible, too…
(This thread is not about Isreal. Nonetheless, the fact that Chomsky, a Jew, is not in lockstep with the rightwing in Israel is hardly a revelation. Israel and Jews in general are not a monolith.)
Fast-forward to June 20th, when the video of Neda dying on the street in Iran hit the internet, along with other citizen videos of violence that seeped out despite the government expulsion of and threats to journalists, despite government efforts to control and slow down the internet. People fear for their safety in sending out information.
Originally I planned to post another link to a site being used by Iranians to help get their messages out. I won’t since I just read the following exchange there:
LinkBack
Thread Tools
Display Modes
6 Days Ago
#1 (permalink)
Unregistered
Guest
Posts: n/a Anonymous Tweeting
A couple weeks ago I threw together a low-bandwidth anonymous tweeting service to assist those in Iran that wanted to get information out while remaining anonymous. However, it was initially heavily spammed so I shut it down. Because of the recent rumors about tweeters being arrested, I've edited the code a little to help cut down on spam and re-opened the anonymous tweeting service. Here's the URL:
[URL removed for POF post by where4]
Anything entered into that page will be retweeted under the user name "irananontweet" with the #iranelection tag already added.
Please help spread the word to those that might need this.
Hope it helps.
6 Days Ago
#2 (permalink)
Unregistered
Guest
Posts: n/a would you consider
Making an image iso or win msi distribution so this service could be distributed as the Regime continues to block ip's?
5 Days Ago
#3 (permalink)
Unregistered
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Making an image iso or win msi distribution so this service could be distributed as the Regime continues to block ip's?
It's just 2 files, an html and a php that uses curl to talk to twitter's api. You would need a server to throw it on, as well as a valid twitter account to sacrifice. Let me know if you want copies.
5 Days Ago
#4 (permalink)
Unregistered
Guest
Posts: n/a
put on rapidshare or mediafire pls
4 Days Ago
#5 (permalink)
lonestar
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6
is this service down forever?
23 Hours Ago
#6 (permalink)
Unregistered
Guest
Posts: n/a Why?
Why are idiots [s]pamming this. Do they not know how important this is for people in iran. We're talking about they're lives!
*****
As far as comparing Kent State to what’s been happening in Iran, please consider the fact that Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young were all over the American airwaves not long after with “Four Dead in Ohio.” To my recollection no radio stations were ever shut down. Nor recording execs were intimidated, jailed, or executed. Even at the notorious Chicago riots during the Democratic National Convention in 1968 the American evening news programs broadcast the crowds chanting, “The whole world’s watching! The whole world’s watching!” Why do you think that iconic video still exists today? Please get a grip and reconsider your comparison. To be sure, under the Bushies we got so-called “protest zones.” I don’t like them. Broadcasters are free to cover them. Post-9/11 we got truck-stopping barricades in front of all our federal buildings. Sadly, I think this measure was prudent. You will see, however, many protesters in my hometown of Pittsburgh this September for the G-20 conference. I expect to be there alongside my new acquaintances supporting the Iranian opposition.
America: it ain’t perfect but I sure feel lucky to live here. Chomsky lives here, too, doesn’t he? How long do you think he’d be able to say what he does in Iran?
Oh, and please read this in the July 3rd NYTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/04/world/middleeast/04confess.html?_r=1&ref=world
I shudder to think what they’d have Chomsky saying - and how they’d accomplish it.
Geee, I know it’s ridiculous and it took quite a while, but Al Franken’s going to the U.S. Senate next week! | |
|
| Iranian Election Fallout
Posted: 7/4/2009 4:54:32 PM | [quWhat is wrong with you people...Obama is condemning the slaughtering of the protestors, of blackening out the news media, of arresting those who are dissenting...
what is wrong with you people? what are you talking about? I was saying that the US did not go in there and START the protests, that the Iranian people are capable of starting it themselves.
and it is the HUMANE duty of other countries to get involved when there is chaos and murder being perpetuated by "govt."
Really? OK and how do you suggest we do that? I mean Iraq was such a wonderful experience, and Afghanistan is going well dont you think? What is the US death count for those two countries, not to meantion our maimed and emotionally disturbed guys?
Really it is our HUMANE duty to go someplace else and count our fallen for THEIR freedom? Isreal is closer, and has a vested intrested in a revolution in Iran, maybe they should do it.
Are you insane.................
I am insane? well maybe, but at least I am not stupid.
ote] | |
|
|
| Page 4 of 5
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
|
Home
login 
