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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/19/2009 5:17:54 PM | my date opening the car door for me contributes very little to my enjoyment of the date. I probably wouldn't even notice it.
I dated a man who always wanted to get the car door. He hardly ever was able to because I was too quick, getting out at least. He usually was there to open it for me to get in (not to mention it was often a big Ford truck). He used to say sternly it was very important for me to let him open the door, but I could never wait, I'm too used to doing it myself. We just laughed about it, but still, it was sweet that he wanted to. | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/19/2009 7:23:56 PM | Chivalry is something that brings the soft woman out in me.
No kidding! Chivalry had never been important to me. I was a strong, self-sufficient woman. None of my partners or dates were chivalrous in the least, until the last one.
I was surprised at my reaction to the gentlemanly things he did. It made me feel special, honoured, protected and I glowed. After you've been to Paris, it's hard to go back to the farm. Yes, chivalry has become important to me.
When I walk into a restaurant with my beautiful woman, sure, people notice her beauty, her grace, and even recognize her air of deep intelligence.
But when they look at me, and know she is mine, the single thought in their brain that radiates throughout the room is "He must really have character."
Laughing! Actually, the room has another thought about what he must really have...
Picture this on a Valentine's date:
a) A woman opening and holding the CAR door for her husband.
b) A husband opening and holding the CAR door for his wife.
c) he unlocked and opened the passenger door for me and as he walked around to his side, I leaned across and unlocked his door from the inside.
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/19/2009 7:28:43 PM |
Yes, I definitely believe in the ideals of chivalry in a relationship. I want my man to treat me with consideration, respect and love and I will do the same for him. I love having the door opened, my seat pulled out, helped on and off with my coat, him walking on the streetside of the sidewalk and standing up when I approach. My man is a complete gentleman and I love him even more for the gracious (excellent word for it, btw) way he treats me.
Yup!! | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/19/2009 7:33:06 PM | YAY! ...SagMan!
I have always been lucky in that men I have associated have always had manners and yes...chivalry.
It brings a feminine feeling out in me....just like it makes him feel more masculine....
It's all good...why destroy it? | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/19/2009 7:42:21 PM | Chilvary is nice, dont get me wrong...it is truly appreciated, if not somewhat cliche. I believe...however, deep, and profound caring and intimacy comes in a different package.
This short story will explain....
Years ago, a good friend was stricken by a tumor on her spine. She was in great pain and basicly bed ridden. She had a successful surgery and today lives a normal and healthy life. But during those tortous weeks of her recovery, while she lay imobile in a hospital bed, her new husband, who was at her side constantly, took care of her. I'm not talking about bringing magazines and a clean nightgown from time to time...I mean really took care of all her needs.
She shared with me, that even during her most vulnerable moments, while she remained in traction, incapable of moving, her husband attended to her most feminine needs. Without going into graphic detail...I'm sure you can appreciate what I am getting at.
That gents...that is chivalrous, gallant, tender, honest and loving. And anyone who can manage that for their loved one is aces in my book. | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/19/2009 8:00:29 PM |
Human beings do not need to eat meat to survive. Our ancestors did just fine on seeds, nuts, and plant food. We eat meat because we like it. There is no biological need.
Marrianne
Where do you live??? The further to the poles you go, the more dependent on meat were our ancestors because plant food is available for a very short period in these cold climates. There is a biological need for meat...and how does this relate to chivalry, for goodness sakes? | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/19/2009 9:34:28 PM | I've felt both ways about it. When I was very young, I used to get vehemently angry when a man would try to help me with anything because I thought he was only offering his help because I was a woman and he thought I couldn't do it. To be fair though, I was offended when a woman offered help too. Too proud and independent for my own good!
For years I tried to save the world and everyone in it single handedly. I would take in very needy men and work tirelessly to nurse them back to health and boost their self esteem, and clean their apartments and cook for them, laundry.... most of the time getting no real moral support, or even commitment in return. That seriously got old! There wasn't an ounce of chivalry in any of those guys! lol
I have to say, I am now very pleasantly surprised and even grateful when someone, especially a man shows any traditional "chivalrous" behavior. It's a nice gesture. I'm like, my God, SOMEONE ( other than me) is thinking of someone other than themselves! Well, aren't I the lucky one! I now say thank you with the same sincerity that I used to use to scorn anyone offering a helpful hand.
Thanks all you chivarous men and women out there! | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 3:16:39 AM |
And the above poster goes on how to say ".....it would probably irritate me after a while, if done constantly". WHY is that??
Perhaps it might be conceived that they can't do it. I see how it could be annoying for some women after long enough. Some people like to do things for themselves or they want it done a certain way. But if they decline it should be respectful too. No thanks, I prefer to do it myself.
That IS the problem. MOST women have forgotten HOW to be a woman.
You forgot how to act and accept things as a woman.
To me those phrases sounds way too condescending. Its not up to you or anyone else to decide what character traits make a man or a woman or how they should act. Each person gets to decide for themselves.
Telling them they "Forgot" in itself also seems controlling. Its a nice way of telling them they are wrong and that their opinions don't matter. | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 3:35:17 AM | | I think the majority of women DO appreciate chivalry, and it's a shame that often when a man meets just one or two of the fiercely independent type that doesn't show appreciation for the intent of the gesture (whereas I'm the fiercely independant type that DOES appreciate chivalry), that they just give up on the whole chivalry thing in one fell swoop. Hang in there guys. It is not a lost art. And it's especially relevant to dating interactions (as opposed to, say, how you act with female co-workers). | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 5:50:26 AM | ^^^^^Amen to that. Yesterday when I was waiting outside yet another building for one of my children I saw a high-school aged couple and the young man moved to the girl's right side, putting himself next to the peope they passed, a bit like the side of the street thing, and I wondered if he was even aware that he had done it. Another young man waited at the door substantially longer than one would be expected in order to hold it for my daughter.
Men that truly are this way do it without expectation, it is so ingrained that they just do it much like my inclination to cook someone a meal even if he has been paid for whatever he did around my house. My daughter and my sons open doors for people and I don't have to tell my teenagers to give up their chair for an adult. | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 6:54:08 AM | | Just a *addendum to the "sweet" guy who insisted on holding the door. Chivalry and manners CAN be used to blindside. He turned out to have anger issues, mental and/or emotional and/or alcoholism as well as financial problems. SOME people will put on certain behaviors to try and cover these up. | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 7:23:55 AM | well i am form the south first. second my mother instilled the following in me. third i ahve learned some on my own. so here goes what i believe and yes women love it:
always open a door for a woman ( car door or otherwiase). and wait till she is through the door or buckled to close the door for her.
hold her jacket while she puts it on or takes it off. (espacally if its leather and she has a black dress on)
if you are out and its cold, give her your jacket and the previous rule applies.
let her have control of the remote or radio, even if you cannot stand opera or oprah.
in a returant pull her chair out till she is seated and then push it in.
let her order what she wants first and then you order.
let her take the first bite of any meal, weather at home, fast food or a resturant.
make her plate for her at home.
walk on the outside when i a parking lot or sidewalk.
stand up when she comes too and walks away from the table or to it or the same with when she comes in a room.
make her orgasam the center of sex.
guys we hate this one but play love songs around her.
never ever ever say anything harmful or disreapectful to a woman espacally in public.
never cuss around a woman, and if someone does, tell them there re ladies present.
when she needs a freind be a freind.
always even if you think she is wrong back her 100 percent in public.
never let your buddies or family say anyhting derogitory or demaning or sexual to her, defend her and take a stand.
listen to her hope dreams ideas thoughts desires plans wants and needs.
be her best freind.
cover her with a blanket when she falls asleep on the couch or carry her to bed.
light her ciggerette.
be her best friend.
always genuinely compliment her. dont be afraid to show her how you feel.
see thats how chilvery should work. and ladies i know they are out there because thats me. and there are other guys out there like that also. | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 7:24:34 AM | <---------- Offended..
The ideals of chivalry may in history been seen as lacking, but from where I stand, on my own personal battlement, This is what chivalry is to me:
Honor
Courtesy
Faith
Charity
Temperance
Humility
Strength
Justice
Hope
Prudence
Strength
In these virtues that I and many strive for but perhaps do not know the name of what they try to attain, it is the very base of how we percieve chivalry and honor, and how we live it in this time. There are many who believe in this, there are many who enact these virtues daily, for every ideal, there were people who failed those ideals, perhaps it was those who failed that saw themselves written in history, but that does not make it right, and it does not blanket what *I* see as chivalry.
Honor is the gift you give yourself, chivalry is sharing that gift with others. You are jaded, for your own reasons, but please do not grant such an open and closed opinion about it's history, without at least trying to see that there are those out there who live these codes to the best of our ability, and try to overcome the negative nomenclentures that the actions of men have created for us.
There are knights among you, though their armor is different in this time.. and they are sometimes very hard to spot. Throwing your hands to the sky and deciding that because you have not experienced chivalry personally, that it does not exist is unfounded, and unfortunate. I charge you to look deeper.. and see the armor they wear, because they are not broadcasting themselves...Chivalry is NOT dead.. they are regrouping.
Honor above all,
Ronin | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 7:38:31 AM | Eh.. said Strength twice.. oops.. coffee.. need more coffee.. this was in response to 'chivalry is dead comment, btw, as well as the knight bashing comments from history..
Also.. I ask this as well.. What cliche would you rather have? Honestly...
Chivalry and Honor done unto you without agenda, or to cover up another larger lie..
or the cliche of becoming a battered wife, with an alcoholic cheating selfish self centered pig of a man who treats you like less than garbage?
Seems to me like a no brainer to me.. | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 9:24:35 AM | Excellent first response Sagman4u. Bravo!  Bravo!
You can preach as much as you want from the highest mountain top. It will do very little good. The women of our era are spoiled beyond measure. We all are to varying degrees but the ladies of today have truly been sold a bill of goods. They've let go of the things that kept us on our toes and created the respect we hear women lack so much in their profiles.
Respect is earned, regardless of gender. Expecting and earning chivalry was once the way a woman earned respect and one of the very few expectations she could once count on. It was subtly earned.
I have treated women in the very same traditional chivalrous manner. Each time, these gals thought I flipped my lid or was putting on a show to kiss tail and get laid. I treat all women the same especially a lady I am on a date with or dating. When I am confronted on the issue my response has always been the same. Those that deserve being treated with respect always receive it, those that don't do not. The rules modern women hold for men are the very same but based on want and a moment the majority of the time.
No we have women who are basically the female version of one of your buds. They love testosterone the way they want it and how they want it, your money is her money and her money is her money, I don't feel like cooking tonight and when are you going to finish that..., if you don't give me what I want when I want it I'll take half your money and your children from you.
They have very little to offer a man except a bend over.
Chivalry died when Grace walked out the door. It is and always will be "Ladies first". | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 9:30:55 AM | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you still believe in the ideals of chivalry in an relationship? Or, do you think chivalry is demeaning and condescending?
I love it. I don't know what kind of chivalrous acts that a man could do that would be considered demeaning, but I'll let you know if I ever come across it. | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 9:40:16 AM | ameliamd, In response to your post quoted below.
I don't think you understand men as a whole very well. Men don't play pretend very well unless it is army man. We just don't. It is quite difficult for a real man (non-player) to know the difference of when you are supposed to be chivalrous and when your not. It sounds like it should be easy to handle and quite obvious to recognize for you. I assure you, for the overwhelming majority of men it is not.
I'm sure you have met men who have played the chivalry game long enough to loosen your britches or have at least heard of men playing it up for your girlfriends. The only man that will be able to maintain that level of care and attention is the man who finds a woman that maintains her womanhood for the duration. If a woman chooses to not be a woman in the eyes of a man (traditionally speaking) she will have a very hard time finding a traditional man. The very same is extremely true for men.
We're equals, right?
No one has their cake and eats it too!
I'm so sick of men ****ing about "equality". Why can't women be equal? Women should have the same rights as men, AND should be able to have doors opened and chairs pulled out for them. We don't have tho choose between having the job we want and being treated with respect by men. I don't get this shit, seriously...what does a woman being INDEPENDENT have to do with you being a GENTLEMAN??!! Are you serious?!
What are women supposed to do? Tie themselves to a train track and wait for some man to come and rescue her? I just don't get what your problem is with women having equal rights, and being treated decently as human beings. Men try to keep women down because they know that we are sacred and a force to be reckoned with. That's what oppression is...a fear of a people, and trying to keep them down because of this fear and insecurity...that they will rise and be equal to or even more successful than you. | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 10:32:21 AM | I get a big kick out of watching my sons, 19 and 20. When they have their girlfriends over to our house and get ready to take them home. Scurrying around the house, making sure they have their purse and jackets, then to the passenger side of the car to open the door for her.
When I asked one of them, he was like "whats the big deal"? "she likes it".
I remember one specific guy I dated. We dated 6 months. One night we exited a nice restaurant, I was dressed in a mid thigh length dress, jacket and 4 inch black strappy sandles. It was sleeting when we came out. Trying to run across a gravel parking lot, he goes to the drivers side, unlocks, gets in and reaches over to unlock my door. Im standing there in the sleet, legs bare except for the pantyhose, and I had to lift my leg almost a foot and a half to get into his van. Anyone out in the lot could see the dress hike up almost showing my butt, as I got in.
When I asked him about it, he was flabbergasted. He had never given it a though. This man is in his 50's. Time does tell, there cropped up quite a few of little inconsiderate, downright rude, even disrespectful, actions on his part. | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 11:15:42 AM |
Chivalry and manners CAN be used to blindside. He turned out to have anger issues, mental and/or emotional and/or alcoholism as well as financial problems. SOME people will put on certain behaviors to try and cover these up.
You said it sister!!!!! That's a really good observation on your part.
Glad you found out sooner rather than later!!!
~~Beth~~ | |
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| How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 11:57:56 AM |
There is a biological need for meat...and how does this relate to chivalry, for goodness sakes?
Well, I am not an expert, but my understanding is that the very earliest humans lived in Africa, and everyone else migrated. However, I do see your point that people who lived near the poles ate meat. I eat meat, too, and I like it a lot. I disagree that it is biologically necessary, though.
Why did I mention it?
There are some posters who insist that every little thing we do comes down to our biology. I don't believe this at all. Biology plays a huge role, obvs. Just look at the maternal instinct to nurture and care for our young. Biology is very, very important. What I am saying, though, is that in modern society we do things that have NOTHING to do with biology. IMO, chivalry is not about biological need. Men have protective instincts, there is no doubt about that. I just don't see how opening the car door, or bringing flowers, or holding the door (which I would do for anyone, BTW) has anything to do with being protective.
You know, when it comes right down to it, I am just not that easily impressed. There are so many things that are more important than old fashioned "gentlemanly" behavior, I just see it as irrelevant. Bash me if you will, but open the car door for me? So what?
Let's say I went on two dates: date number one was a perfect gentleman. Let's say he was also a very nice person, not bad looking, and reasonably intelligent, while we're at it let's just say he pays for the date too...'cause a gentleman wouldn't have it any other way. I don't even offer. When he walks me to his car, he takes my arm. He opens the door for me as I enter his car. When we arrive back at my house, he opens my car door for me (understand, too, that this requires me to sit there like a queen waiting for him to come around to the passenger side....yeah, I see me doing this...NOT). He walks me to the door, and give me a chaste kiss on the cheek. He says he'll call me. Let's just say though, that I just didn't feel any sparks....it happens, you know. Sometimes a guy is just right on paper, but you just aren't "feeling" it. He can call, but I'm going to say no, because no sparks is a deal breaker for me.
Let's say date number two and I meet at the restaurant, because I prefer to be in control of my own transportation. Let's say I beat him to the first set of doors, and I hold the door for him. He walks through it and says "Thanks!"At the next set of doors, he holds the door for me. I say "Thanks!" We joke and laugh the entire date, because, in addition to the intelligence, and humour, he also possesses the little "somethin' somethin" that I need to feel attracted ( and I say somethin' somethin' because , yes, it is different for all of us ). Assume he treats the server with respect because he has manners (different from chivalry). When the cheque comes, he grabs it, but I say I'd like to pay my way. He smiles and says "No problem." He lays down some money, and I add the rest. OR.....he says, "Hey, my treat." I smile and say "Thanks. I'll get it next time....." We exit the restaurant and before we part, we engage in a kiss that leaves us both wanting more....I tell him I am off work the next day. He says he has his kids but how about the day after? I tell him I'll text him to confirm, and we both go our separate ways.
Did chivalrous behavior help date number one? No. Did lack of it hurt date number two? No. So in answer to the OP, nope; It is not important to me. Asked and answered. Basic manners is a whole other story, but that applies to both genders, and is therefore not what most people are talking about when they refer to chivalry. | |
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