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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/2/2009 9:49:03 PM | I think your advice was very insightful Kimbo.
Listen to him. It's always best to take advice from someone who's been there!
Yoster | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/3/2009 2:13:29 PM | From what JChristian said, his option C is pure-bred drama in your situation. It's pretty harmless for a matter of days, considering you've always had feelings for him, but you'll just end up going thru the same experience as being strung along... and after much more than mere days goes by (procrastination), it will build up and you'll be far more frustrated than you should have been.
Here's the thing... it doesn't matter how "complicated" the situation is between you too. It honestly isn't. If you two are joined at the hip spending all your work & free time together, the only difference is that you are on an intimate level or platonic. If you're spending all that time together in Option C, you're not making it less complicated -- you're making things more complicated. You can't help feelings, so feelings alone will complicate matters regardless whether you two kiss, makeout, roll in the hay, etc etc. Therefore, no need to play games. Does he have those feelings and is willing to go down the "going out" route with you? If not, don't spend much (if any) of your free time together if you do have built up feelings... you guys already are around each other in reference to work as it is and that work environment makes it easier to roll with. | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/3/2009 2:46:03 PM | wow. this is a tough spot to be in, eh?
kudos to you for taking the bull by the horns.
sounds to me like he wants things to continue the way they always have, w/o consideration of your need for peace of mind (and heart).
unfortunately, that means that it's up to you to lay down the law--draw that line in the sand, reinforce your boundaries and hold him accountable until he "gets" it.
no idea how this will turn out, but good luck to you. | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/4/2009 10:42:18 PM | Thanks for the advice, guys. It means a lot. I've basically come to the same conclusion you guys have. I've been actively trying to put space between us, and he just pulls me in closer (gets touchy feely), I acquiesce and . . . ugh.
We'll give it a cold, hard shot and well . . . send luck to me.
I still think it's kind of cute some of you think that my six years of singledom was because of him. Not hardly. I've never been very good at dating. Never sticks. I even shopped around a humor book about the terrible dating experiences I've had. I have a knack for making good friends with guys, but it not going anywhere else and them never wanting more from me. The only guy I dated who I'd consider a boyfriend (but refused to allow me to use the label), I kind of felt like he was only with me because he wanted to be friends only but I wanted a relationship or we needed to break up as I had enough guy friends. When we finally called it off, he told me he wanted me to be his best friend because I had so positively affected his life. I said to take a hike. It's been a year (we were together six months) and he still tries to "catch up" every few months even though I asked him to quit.
When I was a kid, I thought being a nun would be cool - give yourself in service to others, and relationships be damned. I am kind of a nun. :) | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/5/2009 5:40:47 PM | To be honest, and I mean that with every sense of that word, this post is muddled with riddles here, to me that is.
I don't get it these days with this "pleutonic" relationship thing. It's different if you guys are together, but if you guys are friends, leave ihat. If not, no need to carry this on or for you to even give him time, as you've put it. But even so, that's just my two cents. | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/5/2009 7:41:08 PM |
I think part of the reason we were solidly platonic is that he is Orthodox Jewish. I am partly Jewish, but raised Catholic, and don't avow to anything anymore. Having Orthodox family meant I knew what I would be getting into if we tried anything and did not. I've watched his relationships come and go, with that being a major issue (we live somewhere where is probably the only practicing Jew in town) for him. I've always been a fan of theology and such, I've helped him celebrate his religion, and it's opened my heart to it more than in the past. I don't know that he knows that, but it's there.
OP, you mentioned this because it is one of the key factors to your friendship. You can let him know how deeply you have been moved by the ceremonies that you two have shared together. No matter what the religion, sharing ceremony is a sacred act that allows the heart and soul to bond at a deeper level. This may be the key who what you and he need to discuss, if anything at all.
I agree with Straycat that you should give him the one month to think about things and the you need to start walking your talk. Your talk about the faith that you have shared is very significant to the path that you two will take together, regardless of whether you remain platonic friends or not. Peace to your heart and soul sister.  | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/6/2009 7:51:15 AM | you have gone over the, "let's be friends" time limit.
you think just because you two have such good chemistry, it could work romantically?
i don't think so.
leave it at friendship, stop pushing the issue.
he won't be ready until he's ready.
remember, if you spend more time ignoring the romantic side, the more he will be attracted.
your one of the guys to him, in fact, your probably the type of woman he wants but without the romance.
to him, your a safe investment relationship with the opposite sex.
learn to watch, instead of do.
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/6/2009 9:19:55 PM | I have a feeling that its the religion thing. Him being a orthodox jew and being a man also [in jewish religion if your mom is not jewish and your dad is . you are not a jew}
You are partially jewish I am not disputing you there but in jewish law there is no such thing as half or partially jewish.
Ask him if religion plays a role in his decision to remain friends. | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/7/2009 12:41:33 PM |
Finally, he told me, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you."
This may be all you need to know. He probably wasn't lying when he said that; it's not an easy thing to say to someone you care about.
That's not to say his feelings couldn't possibly change in the future, but change may only be possible if you give him a real chance to miss you. | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/8/2009 3:38:00 PM | Akimbo: exactly the same thing happened to me. Isn't it strange that you can be perfect friends and then when you kick it into lover gear, all of a sudden your expectations change. Things that were ok before suddenly become issues. your demands become greater, your disappointments in the other appear. My relationship ended as well. As did our friendship. He wanted to go back to just being friends- that didn't work for me. He suddenly seemed cold to me because the warmth of our physical closeness disappeared. And that was hard.
So OP- proceed with caution. If he's not sure, I'd say be careful. Because chances are if it doesn't work, you'll lose the whole thing. | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/8/2009 5:19:13 PM | I agree with shit or get off the pot.
This is anxiety you don't need.
It seems like he has clearly made up his mind...loving you but not IN love with you. And if he is practicing his religion that could be a factor and maybe not something that he would feel comfortable to talk about for fear of hurting you.
LIFE IS SHORT! Do you want to stay in limbo land?
You have presented yourself on a silver platter; the dude either goes for it or not. If not, find another dude. In any case...if you are really searching for more then you have to pull back and allow some space for somebody else to find you. This guy has a monopoly on your entire life! It's up to you, nobody can tell you what to do. Follow your heart, and ask yourself what you really need and want.
It sounds to me like this guy is fu**ing up pretty badly, but that's just my 2 cents. | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:00:09 AM | Thought I would update you. I've actively been trying to stay away from him - and failing miserably. Partly it's the fact that we're constructing the new facility and I feel obligated to help. But it's funny, he could ask anyone else to go with him for some of this, but he wants me along for everything. I go if he admits it is because he wants my company.
So today, we had the day off so I made plans to go out with some other friends and thought - yay, one day I won't be around him (he was invited, but wasn't planning on going) and when I got home from my teaching job, he showed up at my door. He was on the phone about our business, and then wandered over to my computer to do some work there, and then said, "Sorry I'm not entertaining right now . . . " and I was like, "Well, it's not like I invited you over," and he looked hurt. I have no idea why. He milled around for an hour while I went about my stuff and then it was time for me to leave, my dog bolted out the door and looked sad about that, so he decided to take my dog to the dog park (using my car, as he'd biked over) and then decided he'd watch movies on my couch until I got home. And then all of us (my friends + him) went to dinner. He bought me dinner.
This is my life. I don't know what to do. I'm not actively seeking his company, but he's just . . . seeking out reasons to be around me right now, I guess.
I don't know how blunt I need to be again. I thought the "talk" was pretty clear. He told me he thought we should spend less time together, but totally is not doing it.
His mom was in town for the last couple days and after we did our work, he had me out with her for beers and to dinner. I've met her a few times before (he always brings his parents around when they are in town and I've stayed at their house), but apparently this time she told him I am "amazing." He gave me this list of attributes and then told me that she was like, "She should try eHarmony to find a nice guy." He told her I was unmatchable (because I actually have tried it and it said so). MY mom, last time she was here, looked at him when he was away from me and said, "He is so nice, you should marry him." His mom thinks I'm amazing and should try eHarmony.
Yeah . . . at this point I want to shake him and ask him what it is he wants out of life, because if it's to marry an Orthodox Jewish girl, he's not going to find one in SLO (unless I convert - hah), so he'd better give up the life that intertwined us and move to Monsey, NY or something. But the mom thing was telling - and I think it may be a huge reason he's not doing anything.
At this point, I don't know. I feel like if i just let it go without "doing something" that will be a damned shame. But I also don't think you can force people to become more self aware.
Anyway, I've got two dates tomorrow (one for morning coffee and one for beers), so I'm getting out there again. | |
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rhodax
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Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 37 | |
| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:08:13 AM | Grab him and give him a great big wet sloppy kiss. Let him process that!
Seriously, sounds like you two have been in love a long time. So long that it may feel too "improper" to him to be more than friends. You're going to have to push him to face facts.
No ultimatums, just a big dose of reality. | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/10/2009 5:24:18 AM | | OR, another great option here.....
Grab some C4s, plant one on him, and run away as fast as you can. Blow him up to bits and pieces, shout out "LIQUIDDDDDD!!", and walk away from this miserable stance.
.....or you can do what the above poster here stated. THEN plant the C4. :D | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:35:53 PM | I don't know, mcnatara -- with everything you've said (unless I missed something), I just think you're his best friend, and he seems to be somewhat overdependent on you for that. The fact that his girlfriends don't mind you going on vacation with him tells me that he has probably very much stressed to them the fact that you are a friend. I mean, what girlfriend doesn't mind her bf going on vacation with another woman? The mother thinking you should try eHarmony -- that's probably a religious thing; she assumes her son will marry an Orthodox Jew. (And by the way, were the girlfriends Orthodox Jewish? And how long was he with them? Did he ever talk to you about his relationships at all?) I think, especially since you are part Jewish, if he were in love with you, he would ask you if you would ever be willing to convert, rather than saying, "I'm not in love with you."
But, like I said before, things can change. Maybe he's just afraid for some reason. Make yourself as beautiful as you can (wear a cute dress, heels, makeup, nails) (couldn't view your profile, so I don't know what your style is -- but make it sexier and better than usual) for him to behold as you tell him it's not okay for him to show up at your door anymore (while you're on your way out for the evening). Just tell him you can't take it! You are in love with him, and if he doesn't feel the same, you're moving on and will no longer have the time to spend with him except for the business. Not that you won't be his friend, just that you won't be his "hang-out buddy." Seriously limit the time you spend with him -- and I mean seriously. Don't let him in just because he comes to your door. Take a vacation and go somewhere for a week, if you can, or longer, if you can -- and do not answer your phone! Be absent and entirely unavailable to him for a while -- for your own sake (in case things really don't work out the way you would like them to), and so that he can feel what it's like to be without you, his best friend in life....
Just a little girly advice. It won't be easy, but the way it is now just isn't good for you. It isn't enough.
Nice that you have two dates. Good luck with that. Good luck with everything. I'm rootin' for ya.  Let us know! | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/11/2009 12:32:19 AM | If what you want is to distance yourself from him and he's not letting it happen you'll have to be more forceful in my opinion. With the example you gave of him coming to your place and staying there next time tell him that last you talked you decided on distance and you need distance and kick him out.
On the other hand, I like the other person's suggestion to just kiss him and see what happens. But that could make things even more complicated. | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/11/2009 1:32:20 AM |
I don't know how blunt I need to be again. I thought the "talk" was pretty clear. He told me he thought we should spend less time together, but totally is not doing it.
HA! You said "I already said that" (not verbatim, but you know), but now you're confused!
Thing is, you should have said it all FLAT OUT, but you know that'd bring too much confrontation, which is why you didn't do it!! "But I thought he knew...." - No, he didn't. If you wanted to make sure he knew, you would have done that, but we all know we don't want to face the sink-or-swim scenario of your chances lost (gasp), or them rolling with it -- especially since you knew your odds were low.
Thing is, he's not into you because:
(a) He doesn't like you - you're not attractive to him; you're a friend because of all other uncommon ties; like a cousin
(b) He knows you dig him and he can see every glance, slight-move, etc., and he has for some time, and has been turned away from the get-go.
Solution?
Solution is to LOOK FOR OTHER GUYS. If you're so sold on him and are consumed with "what if I...", you're doomed, lost, idiotic. And no, we don't need to know the exactness of your situation -- that's soooo 10th grade! We don't need to know you, him, his mom, or anyone else. It's so basic, bland, done-over-too-much, you need to see the light of day.
"Move on", but nobody's expecting you to like it. Do that, and don't hang out with him "for a chance at a chance". That's how you reel girls in, and he's doing it by accident. Don't be a kid! :) | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/11/2009 10:19:26 AM | Confident, you're an interesting cat. You seem to go into things thinking you "get it" - you've consistently shown some lack of reading comprehension which just blows me away.
I'm not a kid pining after a guy for years. I hadn't ever, ever thought of this situation until I realized that he was flirting with me a few months ago and we were becoming inseparable, but whatever mindset you have only allows you to see me as an immature piner that's always been in love with this guy. What a pathetic, sad sack I must be. Quite the contrary, though I feel bad for you that you don't know what it's like to have the relationship we have, that it's not always about pining after someone. I'm not even pining for him now, I'm just trying to deal with a situation I'm not totally comfortable with now that I've realized it exists, and kind of like Ringo said, I don't want to royally **** up something that might be a good thing.
But your point is salient. The last post was a vent of some kind and you didn't need the details. But the longer this goes on, the more I realize that the friendship we have is pretty special/cool, and even though I don't like the implications that neither of us are available to anyone else because of it, life doesn't always look like how it's supposed to be. I guess if I end up with the kind of platonic life partner he is, I will be better off than most people I know in conventional relationships.
I think my general conclusion is what I liked about Nu Jin's post. I'm going to bomb the crap out of this drama. What will be will be. I will learn to "watch, instead of do." (Thanks Loser) | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/19/2009 3:40:13 PM | McNatara: I can read your longing and your confusion. It's hard to tell what is going on since I don't think he is aware or thinking about what he's doing. He's just acting on what he feels like doing and isn't thinking first. You probably are fantastic as his mother says but he'll do what he wants in the end and who knows what his mom says to him when they're alone. Being an orthodox Jew is a very serious thing and usually it's not about finding a woman who'll convert- it's about finding another orthodox Jew. On the other hand, people who are orthodox in whatever religion usually marry fairly young so I'm not sure what he is waiting for.
You have a couple of choices. As the posters have said, you could make the first move and see what happens. But it will affect your friendship- know that. But my sense is that when he finds the woman he wants to be with, your friendship will be affected anyway.
You can decide for yourself that this will never go anywhere and find other guys- and really stop him from pursuing you. You are clearly sending signals to him that' s it's ok to keep on coming around. Like when he did, you puttered in your house, let him stay while you went out. you shd have said-sorry, getting ready to go out. It's never convenient for you to just show up.
You can distance yourself altogether and not hang for awhile. this is primarily for you so that you stop wondering about what it all means. And you can send him the message that you don't want this to go further.
Try to do something because this is just going to continue to drive you nuts. Take control. At least you'll feel better about things. | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/26/2009 7:55:59 AM | I thought I would update this since some of you were so kind to give me your time and attention. Especially because so far it has a happy ending.
It turns out that having a major conflict resulting from some business related dealings this week while we were at a conference in Utah pushed him over the edge. I told him honestly that I didn't think the situation was healthy for me and that I wasn't going to be involved as much as I have been and was seriously thinking about moving. We kind of resolved it in that he heard where I was coming from and went back to being happy as clams.
We stopped by our business once we got into town again and no one was around . . . and he was flirting with me and I was thinking, "Oh, Jeez, you are so killing me" when he whipped me around and kissed me.
We're now talking about the ramifications of best friends dating and what we're going to do about Judiasm/marriage, but so far . . . happy ending. | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/26/2009 2:05:39 PM | Mcnatara: I hope it all works out. I really do. I was in the same place- dated my best friend. He was in a transition state and wasn't sure what he was looking for. Eventually, it didn't work out because he was not over his ex. But it was incredibly painful for me because I ended up losing a lover and a friend. That is the risk. I know you'll go for it because you are crazy about him. I know how you feel. Just guard your heart abit.
good luck | |
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| Friends, more than friends, what?
Posted: 7/27/2009 4:41:27 PM | | Glad that some progress has been made! I'm in a similar situation, he's a best friend of mine, although we don't spend as much time together as you and your guy. Update on what you decide with best friends dating. I'd like to hear! | |
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