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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/22/2009 7:50:28 PM | It's not the internet that has caused us to be wary at every turn, it's the life that lead us here. None of us want to experience the pain we have in the past so create all these rules, warn each other of red flags, and label those with similar characteristics of past offenders all in the name of the pursuit of happiness.
The problem is that we haven't yet figured out that nothing ventured nothing gained, that sometimes you have to open yourself up, throw a little caution to the wind, and allow things to simply happen instead of trying to make them happen.
We are all so pushed for time, wanting to weed out and judge so quickly that it's having the reverse effect, we are running out of time, and spending it alone. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/22/2009 8:15:48 PM | | I agree--these forums frequently overanalyze relationships and situations to death, to the point where whatever life was there is strangled out. People want to understand why things happen, and that's fine. But sometimes understanding all things is God's job, not ours, and if we try to become gods, yes, we untangle problems, but we also untangle mystery, romance and magic. Don't spend too much time here. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/22/2009 11:54:50 PM | Well, I’ll tell y’all something that turns out to be important. I met my sweaty, for the first time, during a cold rain in a parking lot near her home.
We hugged a lot in that cold rain, then went to her home for a couple hours and soon left for my home for a week.
Yeah, our first date lasted a week!
So did our second date.
After that, we were sort of insupportable. Still are, actually.
“Life Without Rules,”?
Our “rule” seems only to be what is best for the other. For sure, I feel that way. I wish to make her happy.
We are both “older” and have been around that preverbal block a few times. Hell, you can always find something wrong, if you are looking hard.
Love came only because we both know that we can adjust some -- and that we want to, for many reasons.
Point is that there are no rules and laws for love. It’s all what you find and where you find it. Rules do not apply. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/23/2009 6:11:31 AM |
Point is that there are no rules and laws for love. It’s all what you find and where you find it. Rules do not apply.
B*I*N*G*O*! You hit the jackpot. Every person and every relationship is unique and should be treated as such. I never suggested that caution should be abandoned when approaching a new relationship but, rather than strangle it from the get-go with all the rules, laws, red flags and labels, have an open mind and a little faith in possibly what it might be. A positive attitude usually works better than a negative one.
dbndon, it's was a pleasant surprise to see a post from you once again. I'm glad things have worked well with you and your "sweetie". | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/23/2009 7:18:08 AM |
What ever happened to not over-analyzing every person, situation, scenario, character trait and so on? Have we become so jaded in our advancing years that we aren't capable of just "being" anymore or has it become a battle that must be fought on with no one winning the war?
To some extent, I often think the "prevailing attitude" amongst many on the fora emanates from those who "can't get a date", but are "just sure" what they'd do, if they ever had one. 
Then, too, there are those who have been hurt, and are so reactive to that, that they refer to some external paradigm, or made up rules, thinking that will give them "control" over that which they fear.
Honestly, as I read some of the posts, it comes across as having all the "joy" of an extensive job interview process, and trying to date someone with a laundry list of demands, who is constantly on guard against "red flags", is more about her looking for reasons "not" to date, than any positive anticipation about just "letting things happen" as they will in the real world.
In any case, I don't take it all that seriously. Despite prevaling attitudes, I've managed to find "compatible others", when I've been actively looking. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/23/2009 8:18:56 AM | Even more amazing, there are women who e-mail me with a message that is the rough equivalent of a knight in full armor taking a shield and smacking me in the face. Sort of like:
Hi,
I am warning you that I don't tolerate cheaters, lies, drunks, drug addicts and unemployed bums. Want to chat?
I mean, how much more inviting can you get? | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/23/2009 8:30:13 AM |
Even more amazing, there are women who e-mail me with a message that is the rough equivalent of a knight in full armor taking a shield and smacking me in the face. Sort of like:
Hi,
I am warning you that I don't tolerate cheaters, lies, drunks, drug addicts and unemployed bums. Want to chat?
I mean, how much more inviting can you get?
I guess there's nothing like setting out all the rules, laws, red flags and labels up front before someone can have a "chat". I'd hate to see the criteria requirement for dating or a relationship if this is what is required for a mere chat! In this case, it's clear that the battle has completely taken precedence and the war marches on. I wonder how many allies she has swung over to her side and how this battle tactic is working for her. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/23/2009 8:35:32 AM | I have advanced from being a Tenderfoot dater to becoming an Eagle Scout with many merit badges in the dating arena. Most young people are naive. As people age they experience many things through living life and most hone their judging skills. I do not feel jaded or cynical but I do keep my eyes open. I also tend to observe the actions rather than listen to the words.
One advantage we older daters have is what we know from our experiences and those of our friends. We tend not to make as many mistakes as the younger folks. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/23/2009 9:38:17 AM | Well OP, I'm older than you, but not by to much. You're right, we didn't have all those "rules","red flags" ect. when we were younger, why? because most often we grew up around the people we eventually dated or married...we already knew most things about them, of course we made mistakes...but then again we didn't have "internet "dating sites or "dating forums", to tell us "the rules".
I think we used to operate with something called "common sense".
And do you even remember someone calling someone a "player"? I don't, but I do remember some guys being called a "womanizer", so maybe player is just a modern word for the same. And of course, there was no such thing as a woman player....yeah right!
Have to admit, when I first started dating I was naive as hell. And it was probably over a year before I started reading the forums...yep over a year.
And you know what I've learned from reading them? There are some damn scary people out there! Actually there quite educating too. So now I know, or have at least read what some people describe as "Red Flag". Not a bad thing to understand.
I often read posts and wonder "what created this monster?" , and what are all the gender bashing threads about?
There have been alot of rules set out there for us....if we choose to live by them, or infact even believe in them. Some I wonder about, like who the hell says it takes X amount of time before you can say "I love you" or fall in love? Or who makes the rule..."No sex until such and such a time"? I always thought that should be when two parties feel it's right.
And guess what? the world is capitalizing on our singlehood? Offering advice such as, "Act Like a lady, think like a Man", "He's just Not That Into You". And the list goes on. Suddenly it, or some of it becomes "Gospel"....more "rules". | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/23/2009 5:31:12 PM | Op, recently I realized the rules I was imposing on my life. What a revelation. It has been very liberating and empowering to chip away at these very unnecessary rules and judgments. I still employ common sense, and am learning to listen to that “voice” I had forgotten even existed. I have rediscovered my zest for all things big and small.
I refuse to be jaded, I refuse to close my heart. I refuse to lose all that was once the very core of my existence. I refuse to lose the beauty in all I see, and much I don’t see. Am I playing Pollyanna? If I am, it is by choice. For me the first step was realizing that I had written the rule book and I can change the rules, written the labels that I can remove, and sent up the red flags out of fear that I can remove.
I am still vulnerable, but my world is much more colorful, my heart sings more, and I feel more vibrant than ever. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/23/2009 6:28:54 PM | | Very well stated, Savanah777, couldn't agree more. I believe that no matter what anyone will say 'outloud' they will still have those 'rules' within and they are ingrained and there may be some variances. However, as with any variance...once that variance becomes larger and larger then there is a problem and then it will have to balanced out and evaluated and then one moves on or....remains in a mess. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/23/2009 8:56:16 PM | There is a value to learning life's lessons. That's "wisdom". However, to be reactive to each and every thing that has gone "wrong" in the past, and to fall into the illusion that it's possible to love without risk, is to end up not dating or having relationships at all.
To me, there are 4 primary groupings.
Group 1 are those who have "resigned" from dating, and are merely here to spew venom out of hate and bitterness over how the opposite sex has done them wrong. Such people aren't dating, obviously.
Group 2 are those who imagine that they're interested in dating, but have so many "demands", and are looking so intently for "red flags", that they've made it impossible for anyone to meet their "standards". They congratulate themselves that they "wont settle", as they go year after year not seeing anyone.
Group 3 are those, who will "make a date", but have a difficult, slow, lengthy paradigm, that subjects any new person to rigoruous evaluation, imagining that if they keep doing the same thing over and over, they'll eventually find someone who comes "perfect", out of the box. They won't let anyone get really close, imagining that some "friends first" and dating more than one will somehow usher in intimacy with the "rignt one", so they date, but never enjoy the closeness and intimacy of relationships.
Group 4 are those who date and are realistic. They will date, and when they find someone, who meets their basic "must haves", are willing to be "exposed" to risk, and will attempt to make a 'relationship" work, without loading it down with unrealistic expectations. Such people have relationships, that may last for "awhile", or might last "forever". Either way, they date as most people did early in life, hoping for the best, having reasonable expectations, and for however long it lasts, having the joys and pain of sharing real relationships. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/24/2009 6:46:20 AM |
We tolerate as a society to much from the "idiots of the world".
I am at a loss in comprehending the above statement. Maybe I'm one of those "idiots of the world" but don't yet know it. Please define in detail who you consider these "idiots of the world" to be. Gosh, maybe I'm one of them and don't know it!
To much gender roles reversals. To many genders. No more just a man and a woman. Now you have an array of freaks out there.
Again, I'm puzzled. Has another gender been created that I don't know about? So are you saying there is no more men and women - just freaks? Please do elaborate and enlighten me.
Unfortunately, as a society we have been to "liberal" and accepting to all the freaks, social misfits, abusers, addicts(pick one), the over-sensitive people, and my favorite....the immoral majority.
Sooo, what do you propose this "liberal" society should do with with these types of people? Line 'em up and shoot 'em? Again, please educate me on these issues. It's becoming increasingly obvious that I need some sort of enlightenment on all these issues that you have brought to this thread.
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/24/2009 7:14:20 AM | I was just this week thinking the mindset of those in pof differs from those that aren't in here. I have never seen so many jaded, defensive people in my life. Talked to a man last week. He told me if a woman raises 5 red flags they're gone. He wouldn't date widows, women who had been with the same partner for over 20 years. Told me I was incapable of having a longterm relationship. How he knew that still puzzles me. He then complained continually about taking women for dinner and they wouldn't even leave a tip. Now all dates were dutch. All 3 emails were nothing but complaining. He acted like he was at war, not looking for a date.
I believe reading all these forums has damaged me when it comes to dating. I now worry about who pays, who drives, are my privates too big? small?, am I too poor? rich?, fat?, uneducated?, umpteen things I've read about in here. A lot are treating it as a battle. Why I think so many never find anyone.
I've pretty much given up ever meeting anyone in here. Seems ever forum I read no matter the subject turns into a man vs woman thing. Lot of angry/bitter people in here. Yet here they are, on a dating site when they've nothing nice to say about the other gender.
You're absolutely right tinkerbell, it's gotten ridiculous. Anything and everything is made out to be a big deal. Just look at the who pays for coffee thread.
I know I'm sick of it. Told the man I was talking to that he sounded jaded and maybe it was time to take a break from dating. Never replied. Course I probably set off the 5th red flag with that response. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/24/2009 7:23:24 AM |
I've pretty much given up ever meeting anyone in here. Seems ever forum I read no matter the subject turns into a man vs woman thing. Lot of angry/bitter people in here. Yet here they are, on a dating site when they've nothing nice to say about the other gender.
You're absolutely right tinkerbell, it's gotten ridiculous. Anything and everything is made out to be a big deal. Just look at the ho pays for coffee thread.
Don't let the very vocal and very angry voices discourage you. I've managed to make connections on POF, with women, who are no more interested in "gender wars" than I am, and with whom it was a very normal "first date". From those, have come a couple of relationships over the past 3 years.
I am yet to have a "who pays?" discussion, or a lot of angst about the "rules" that one reads so much in the fora. Truth is, the vast majority of people on a dating site are here, hoping to connect with someone "normal" of the opposite sex.
It's the loony, bitter, and angry that make for great entertainment, though. The "rules" about this, that, and the other thing or so ludicrous, that I often end up laughing. The paralysis by analysis so dysfunctional, that it's educational.
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 6/24/2009 8:04:11 AM | | I've met some good people in here too. Probably been spending too much time in the forums, sometimes it's discouraging. If it were only a few loony/bitter/angry people I could laugh it off too. Seems like a virus though, it just keeps spreading. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 7/2/2009 8:17:19 PM | this was said just about right .... it is, indeed, about making better, wiser, more experienced and informed choices and decisions!
you can still be open to life, new people, activities and experiences without just throwing caution and common sense to the wind. this is not being jaded! | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 7/2/2009 8:46:41 PM | I have to agree Tink, we've complicated things alot here in the forums. But there were and still are 'flags' off the internet. Friends and family inform us regularly of the good, bad, and ugly of someone new we've met with all of the attending advice. We just don't call them 'flags' and 'rules.'
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:06:31 PM | | Rules are meant to be broken and I'm all for going without rules to begin with. I've noticed this place is so cheery that I've decided to take down my profile and buy a dog. That way, I can be adored for the goddess I am without the hassle of responding to ridiculous emails or no responses to mine. I still come to read the forums though. Just reinforces my preference for a dog! | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:30:44 PM | | All the rules are for people we don't like, as soon as a person meets someone that they're hot for all those rules go right out the window. Also if you've read much in these forums you'll have seen that there are as many different rules for the samething as there are people. eg... for sex there is the three date rule, two date rule, 30 day rule, 90 day rule, not till we are married rule, and the first time we meet rule. Which one is right? Well again it depends on how hot you think the other person is. The red flags also go out the window if the persons picture is really hot, it is all just a bunch of self deception people use to feel like they know the best way to do things. The truth is that if any of us really knew how to deal with and win the admiration of the opposite sex we wouldn't be here, we would be on dates. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 7/3/2009 8:17:07 AM | OP, I think if people would just go out and meet people without any pre-concieved ideas of "oh, this might be the one", just go for a nice time to meet new people. Don't try to analyze someone you just met, but do try to get to know them a bit before placing them in a catergory. Now, if on the first date, meet and greet, you notice some red flags, then you can decide if you would like to see more of them or not. I think we all have our own red flags to an extent, so be careful how you judge others red flags. Make it a point in a relationship to say to yourself "I can live with this, but this I can't live with". It's sorta a give and take thing, think of it as a weigh scale, and put your red flags on one side and their red flags on the other, we may be surprised whose side weighs the most.  | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 7/3/2009 8:47:39 AM |
deserthottie-- it is, indeed, about making better, wiser, more experienced and informed choices and decisions!
you can still be open to life, new people, activities and experiences without just throwing caution and common sense to the wind. this is not being jaded!
True enough, and if life wisdom is applied judiciously, it's a guiding light. There are things I know, from experience, that I can't "deal with", so if I encounter them, I won't even get into a chat online. Someone with borderline or bi-polar, for example, will never, ever work. I've also learned that someone with a different dating style won't work, so I steer clear of profiles that make it clear that there will be a lot of external "rules".
The problem is, that the truly "controlling" people, think that they're being "reasonable" based on "life experience". In an effort to control their fears, they have become controlling, and make a lot of rules in an effort to "protect themselves". With such people, the simple truth is that I didn't cause their pain from the past, and I can't fix it. Trying to put up with controlling rules is a frustrating waste of time.
Someone else suggested, why can't we just let things happen naturally. For me, that's the only way it will ever work.
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts12632613.aspx | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:16:10 AM | | Excellent points, as usual, Ren.......I agree with the different "groups" you listed in Message 38......in particular, there seems to be an abundance of category 1-3 types here, with group 2 being the largest group, I think : the "I am so unbelievably special, that no one can measure up to me". I don't think they realize they love themselves far more than they could ever love anyone else. | |
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| Life Without Rules, Laws, Red Flags, Labels et al
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:28:10 AM | And, actually, I also believe that the Category 4 types (the ones who still hold out positive attitudes and genuinely believe that great relationships are still possible, regardless of whatever "stats" the yokels drum up) rule!
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