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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/27/2009 9:25:06 AM | Getting along with the Mother of your child is easy when you respect your boundaries and she respects yours. My simple advice is NEVER enter her home again wait outside for your child. Do not speak to her unless absolutely necessary.
Talk about typical view of being entitled. As the womans view or opinion comes first. The woman is right...the mother knows best....
As opposed to getting along with your ex...the other parent of your child is important. Each must respect the others boundaries...but Carolann will not doubt continue to see the mothers view or position as preeminent.
If you cannot keep your hands to yourself then perhaps the strain of parenthood is getting to be too much for you and you need to take a step back
Says the wonderful world of the all knowing mother...yet..spanking is not illegal! So technically he did not step outside of legally acceptable parenting.
To give you some context with what has not been told by itsallinthesoul is that I have been assaulted on no less than 3 occasions. Although I have never been harmed by these assaults they are troubling to me in so much as I would have been surely arrested and charged if I had committed those acts.
So what would you suggest if the assault was done by the father Carolann..I am sure we all know you would be suggesting he be not allowed access....so will you suggest the same...I am sure we all know that is not something you would advocate for a mother....
Or will you use the typical refrain from many womans groups...they are only protecting themselves?
I don't want to lose what is mine so I become belligerent, angry and scared due to my 'fear'.
Very easy for one to say when they in reality woman have most of the playing cards in famil court which gives them the power. Know what it is like to see and hear the police laugh as they leave a property when the ex wife told them the physical assault was her doing the punching? Or the wife hitting you and daring you to do something as she knows all it takes is for you to retaliate and she can get you tossed in jail?
Or how it feels to have been falsely accused of one or two things and you have to suffer the humiliation of explaining things to the police and social services and why you stay in the relationship. My reasons were simple...stay until the children were old enough that i might be able to continue to stay in their lives without being shut out like other fathers. Of course i was not foolish enough to share that with them or anyone else who might relay that back to my ex....I only had to exist in that environment for 5 or 6yrs.
There is no real problem with different rules...the problem is petty parents who feel they should enact their rules in both households.
Your ex should never have any say in what goes on in your home as long as it follows acceptable socials norms or practises. And that equally should be followed in the fathers home.
Is it perfect...no...but then what is....and is it perfect to raise a child or children in an environment where the presumption is the mother has preeminent authority on how a child is to be raised....I doubt it...but then I also suggest that raising daughters to follow what their husbands say is equally reprehensible to you..as it is to me....just a shame you feel you have that right over children...just because you are a woman.
to claim she is in fear of violence from me.
woman use that and woman are also legitimately in fear. There was even a woman's shelter that deliberately advocated that sense of fear as a tool of improving custody...something more than a few lawyers suggest.
But fear is something felt on both sides...
I have been repeatedly threaten with court action, CAS involvement, and had police called on me a number of times for reasons the strain credulity.
Early on, I acted a lot out of fear. Fear of itsallinthesoul's tales being believed by judges and the system, fear of being relegated to a weekend daddy with little or no influence over the person my daughter would become. That fear has now almost all gone away.
Woman like Carolann and her other hawkish feminists will no doubt mock or trivialize the fear that some men have in respect to losing access and a part of their childs life.
All that this post has convinced me of is that joint shared physical custody with the kid be shuffled back and forth weekly between two homes does not work.
No doubt you would prefer it if the fathers simply just knew their place as the WALLET and the support to mothers in raising their children and be there every other weekend or when the mother saw fit to allow the father access.
Radical thinking....why not expect or have both parents be responsible for raising children if a marriage breaks down.....equal responsibility....equal access unless one makes a choice of not wanting the responsibility.....
There was once a radical movement that advocated for woman having the vote...then they asked for equality in the work place....then they asked legislation that protected their rights for this equality...
But Carolann and her ilk.........will not support the same premise for fathers who desperately want to stay in the childs life...unless they do as the mother says...and get along with her...because why???as a mother she knows better....
Got to love the hypocrisy of some thinking....but then i stand to be corrected? | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/27/2009 10:33:59 AM |
Carolann ->All that this post has convinced me of is that joint shared physical custody with the kid be shuffled back and forth weekly between two homes does not work. Two different philosophies, two different mindsets and one kid bearing the brunt of adult he said/she said pettiness and BS.
Well, it CAN work. My ex and I've been doing 50-50 for almost 8 years, now. Our kids are happy, healthy and happenin'...
For the first few years my ex and I interacted much like a-soul and her ex do, but we never did so in front to the kids. My ex's santimonious, shitass, condescending way of communicating got to the point where I told her that I would ONLY communicate with her through email. I wasn't particularly proud of the way I dealt with things either.
Communicating through email about kid-stuff ONLY was key.
Tealwood ->Woman like Carolann and her other hawkish feminists will no doubt mock or trivialize the fear that some men have in respect to losing access and a part of their childs life.
I, too, can relate to the fear factor. My ex played the heavy handed card even 5-6 years after she left. At one point we were having a bit of a tiff and she immediately started with the threats 0f legal action, "To take everything you have," as she put it. That was after more than 5 years apart.
I went to see a lawyer just to see if she had any ground to stand on and the guy basically told me I was an idiot if I didn't get that doggy to go back to sleep. She actually COULD have collected more money if she pushed it. Scared the shit out of me. I shut my mouth and tend to avoid any situation that could cause her to lower the boom...
.... and a big reason the lawyer told me I should shut up is because of the Contini v Contini Supreme Court decision that Tealwood mentions.
Anyway.... a great solution may start with email only.
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/27/2009 12:35:12 PM | I am just re-looking at this with the new information from the father's side of the story. This is just a theory I have. I am not saying anything itallinthesoul did was wrong, or that her feelings about this situation are wrong in any way, shape or form.
He has threatened almost from the moment the papers were signed placing our daughter in 50/50 joint physical custody that he was going to withhold information about her from me if I didn't a b or c. Now a b and c ranged everywhere from how I spoke to him (valid and corrected), to how well I could respect his rights as a father (valid and corrected), to difference in opinion on the causes of our daughter's behaviours...
If I were afraid that my ex could take away some or all of my time with my child, based on little more than a whim, (whether it were true or not is not the issue, if it's what I believed) I would be reacting with frustration and fear to every disagreement and difference of opinion. For many people, frustration turns into controlling behaviors, to try to get some semblance of control back over the situation, to lessen their fear.
he is not interested in hearing my opinions unless they agree with him....and because much of my opinions are based in emotions/instinct, he declares them completely invalid....that is where the issues unresolved lie.
It can be extremely frustrating to try to deal with someone, when the stakes are as high as having time with your child jeopardized, if you feel the person cannot be logical or rational. I would be afraid that if the person who had the control over how much time I could spend with my child had a difference of opinion with me, that if I couldn't get them to agree with me, they may take me to court, call CAS, or any number of things. In other words, I would feel that if I couldn't convince that person to agree with me, than my custody could be in danger. Or, if the other parent were to tell our child that I was wrong in my actions, my relationship with my child would be jeopardized unless I could get that parent to agree with me. If that other parent was arguing based on emotion and couldn't see my logic, it would only escalate my terror/anger/frustration further.
Yesterday I did try to tell him that his house/his rules was fine with me but I couldn't ever condone his hitting her hand to deal with her aggressive behaviour towards him and he kept trying to validate his actions when I refused to agree with him.
This is a clear example of, if you don't condone it, maybe you will tell a judge this and put my time with my child in danger, so I would feel that I MUST CONVINCE YOU to agree with me, out of desperation.
OR, if that is too far out, not possibly what was going on in his head, maybe it was just the fact that it would be confusing to your daughter if you were to tell her that what Daddy did was wrong, and that would make him look bad in the eyes of his daughter.
I even told him how I could see that he felt that was the best option. I could have stopped the whole thing right then by saying, "you did the right thing" but when my daughter tells me about it later, I cannot support what he did by saying daddy was right to do what he did because I don't believe he was and I don't want her to think that hitting is a way to solve a problem. She will tell me, I know her well enough to know she will tell me.
So you can see why he was desperate to have you agree with him, right? To the point of getting angry and acting out of frustration. If both of those theories are wrong, then there must be some other reason why he felt so strongly about it.
It all boils down to the fact that you are right, you are never going to agree on parenting styles, so it's better to just agree to disagree and do that parallel method you described yesterday. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/28/2009 2:44:53 PM | Look at me I'm a hawk!!!!
No I prefer to think of myself as a Mama bear protecting her cub. If you cannot be civil then stay off my property and don't call me. Do you feel Tealwood that you have some level of rights to be on your Exes property? Did she get the house, tough guy?
I don't believe that joint shared custody will be successful unless it is being done by parents that are above ego driven pissing contests. Children need stability, I don't see that in most of the angry posts here that are proclaiming their rights to their kids. Tealwood you cannot even manage to post here without getting mad.
Captain seems like the only one so far that has managed to work through the issues of co-parenting equally. Can you share with the group how you do manage? Because I cannot even imagine a child growing up normally being related to some of these angry guys. The rants are far more about them then the children. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/28/2009 3:00:44 PM | Shared parenting does seem like it would take the heroic efforts of both people. It almost seems as if, if two people can manage it, they probably shouldn't have broken up in the first place! 
Of course I realize there are lots of reasons for break ups, like infidelity, etc., etc. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/28/2009 7:55:33 PM |
Getting along with the Mother of your child is easy when you respect your boundaries and she respects yours. My simple advice is NEVER enter her home again wait outside for your child. Do not speak to her unless absolutely necessary. Talk about typical view of being entitled. As the womans view or opinion comes first. The woman is right...the mother knows best....
Um, if I break up with someone, then my home is MY home, whether or not his child resides with me... if he thinks he is able to come in whenever he feels like it he is going to find out differently VERY quickly.
No doubt you would prefer it if the fathers simply just knew their place as the WALLET and the support to mothers in raising their children and be there every other weekend or when the mother saw fit to allow the father access.
Radical thinking....why not expect or have both parents be responsible for raising children if a marriage breaks down.....equal responsibility....equal access unless one makes a choice of not wanting the responsibility.....
There was once a radical movement that advocated for woman having the vote...then they asked for equality in the work place....then they asked legislation that protected their rights for this equality...
But Carolann and her ilk.........will not support the same premise for fathers who desperately want to stay in the childs life...unless they do as the mother says...and get along with her...because why???as a mother she knows better....
Got to love the hypocrisy of some thinking....but then i stand to be corrected?
Hey guys... what's the name of that logical fallacy where someone makes a logical leap and attributes thoughts to another person they have never voiced , and then argues from that position? I can't remember. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/28/2009 8:10:08 PM |
Hey guys... what's the name of that logical fallacy where someone makes a logical leap and attributes thoughts to another person they have never voiced , and then argues from that position? I can't remember.
straw man
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1] [2]
Presenting and refuting a weakened form of an opponent's argument can be a part of a valid argument. For example, one can argue that the opposing position implies that at least one of two other statements - both being presumably easier to refute than the original position - must be true. If one refutes both of these weaker propositions, the refutation is valid and does not fit the above definition of a "straw man" argument.
The origins of the term are unclear; one common (folk) etymology given is that it originated with men who stood outside of courthouses with a straw in their shoe in order to indicate their willingness to be a false witness. [3] [4] Another is that a man made of straw, such as those used in military training, is easy to attack. Attacking a straw man can give the illusion of a strong attack or good argument. In the UK, it is sometimes called Aunt Sally, with reference to a traditional fairground game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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Phan59
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Msg: 83 | |
| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 5:07:02 AM | | Should you put up with this for the sake of your daughter or not? Is that really the big question here? I think the big question should be, is there anyone in your family or his, sane, and capable of taking care of this very young child who has been physically abused, is being emotionally abused by BOTH parents, and is also being USED by BOTH parents to attack one another. I think BOTH of you, from the extensive horror story told here, have anger issues, are completely irresponsible when it comes to the well being of this small girl, are abusive, and enjoy fighting far more than parenting. I feel so sorry for your child it truly makes me sick. Running around with a video camera, as if that makes any sense. Endless pointless arguments, name calling, slapping one another, in front of your child. It's disgraceful! BOTH of you, should be ashamed as this IS simply disgraceful behavior for parents! Any parent, who sees a child has been physically abused to the point of bruising, should immediately CALL THE POLICE! Here's my suggestion, instead of spending time posting to a forum, which obviously is just one more realm for fighting between the two of you, why don't you BOTH, get some good counseling WHILE LISTENING, LEARN what it IS to be a parent, or find this child a new HOME with a REAL PARENT. This won't make me popular but I call it as I see it. If you didn't want opinions you shouldn't have asked. This poor little girl, her life sounds like a horrible nightmare you two made for her to live in. Absolutely disgusting. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 7:04:23 AM | Well I've been share parenting for nearly two years now.. My daughters mother and I get along quite fine.. I even have dinner at their house sometimes.. I always spend a little bit of time at her mums house so our daughter can see her mum and dad together and so her brother and sister get to spend a little time with me.. (I was basically a father to her brother and sister, her son was 2 months old when we got together and her daughter was 3).
We can talk about anything together without conflict. One thing we do not do, is question each others parenting style or house rules. The only time I would question is if I felt my daughter was being neglected or effected in some way..
My daughter lives with me for 4-5 nights a week so I am the main care provider for her.
Now, I do not agree with her mums parenting style and her sons behaviour says enough about the discipline in their household. BUT, unless my daughter is being directly affected by it, I don't bring it up. Once you start telling the other parent how to parent their child, thats when problems begin. Its not much different really to that of a married couple. People parent different whether they are separated or still married. We don't always agree with what our partners do just as we don't always agree with what our ex's do..
Most divorced or separated defacto's need to learn that their ex's business is non of their business anymore. The only business that is still shared is that of the child. Way to many people want to seek revenge, hold onto resentment and anger for their ex etc. All this does is make communication nearly impossible and in turn makes necessary contact difficult for the parents and the children.
They're not your husband or wife anymore, so, LET IT GO...
It does take two though.. I made the effort to forgive her for leaving me and creating a broken home for our child. I made the effort to let go of all the resentment etc. I also accepted that both of us were to blame for our break-up and that arguing about it doesn't prove anything or fix anything.
The point is: Someone in the relationship has to make the effort to create peace. You can not wait or expect the other person to do it. You need to make the effort and they will usually tend to follow once you change your own behaviour. Everyone blames their ex for all their problems but never wants to take any responsiblity themselves. (yes, there is also those cases where one person is just absolutely unreasonable and it wouldn't matter what you do, they will still drag your arse through court because all they want is revenge and make the ex pay the price that they perceive needs to be paid. Unfortunately, some courts, lawyers, judges allow this to happen.. But, that's what anger, resentment, grudges, revenge etc. will do to people and at the end of the day, they are not only hurting their children, their ex and their families, they are hurting themselves and end up living a bitter lonely life filled with broken relationships all because they can't find it in themselves to move on and let go.
Forgiveness is the most underrated act that anyone can do. Its not so much about forgiving the other person, its about releasing yourself from your internal prison sentence. Forgiving does not mean that you have to condone the behaviour or actions of another, but, its about stopping that person from having any hold over your life. Because, if your full of resentment, bitterness and anger towards that person, then your only punishing yourself and still allowing them to have control over you.
If you can't do it for yourself then, do it for your children. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 7:22:07 AM | Oh, sweetie. I feel like you're writing my story; there are so many similarities. The only difference is that my ex has realized his mistakes and is working on them, and even wants me back.
Things with him got rough when I got pregnant, and worse when I didn't abort her or put her up for adoption. The whole thing culminated in me pleading the courts to leave the state we were in so that I could afford to raise our daughter better, and have my own support system. We fought for a month, and he finally caved; but the entire time we were fighting, it was over text or email because I had a restraining order against him. (He was abusive as well, hence my reluctance to accept him back in my life romantically.)
If I had believed every word he said about what he wanted to do with me when he "realized" the amount of damage he was doing and what he really wanted, I'd still be with him, miserable, to this day. But I didn't; I chose to end it. He finally allowed me to move, and even though he followed, things are so much better. I've seen a clear difference in my daughter since all of this changed; and I feel better knowing that she won't grow up thinking women are supposed to be treated like crap in a relationship like her mother was. She also has an emotionally stable father-figure in the home, in the shape of her grandpa, my stepdad. She has a grandma that doesn't stab everyone in the back. Her mother is happier and working towards her dream.
This situation that you are letting yourself stay in will only end up hurting your daughter. Mom's can take almost anything for the sake of their kids, but they shouldn't. Do you want your daughter to grow up and find a man like Daddy, who treats her the same way Daddy treated Mommy? That was my fear, and I'm not allowing it.
Obviously I can't tell you what to do; it's your life and your daughter. I would change my number, put a restraining order on him, and enforce it. No contact except through lawyers. No trade-off of your daughter except through third parties. Call the cops if he comes after you. Maybe even call the cops now and save these texts to show them; that's domestic abuse. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 8:38:07 AM | You both put up with it for the sake of your daughter. You both take the high road for her.
Neutural drop off/pick up site or you need a non-biased person there.
If there was one exchange this emotionally charged there were probably more. Every time that happens, you're chipping away at that little girl's soul. That happens every time you demean the other parent as well. The effects may not show up right away, but they are there.
You're teaching her how men and women treat each other by example. Is what you're doing right now how you want her to act/allow in 20 years? If not, reign it in. Work on yourself. The better mom and dad she has, the better her chances. You can't control the other person's behavoir, but you can control your own. Seriously, are you going to look back 10 years from now and be proud of how you acted? 10 minutes from now?
If you can't talk to each other, go email and keep it business like and to the point. Only pertinent info about your child. You both know it's there and can be saved - it may keep you to a civil standard.
Document, document, document. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 10:10:24 AM | Captain seems like the only one so far that has managed to work through the issues of co-parenting equally. Can you share with the group how you do manage? Because I cannot even imagine a child growing up normally being related to some of these angry guys. The rants are far more about them then the children.
Well, it wasn't easy, that's for sure. Well, having the kids half of the time was easy, but dealing with the ex was not and much of that was my stuff.
When my ex left left with the love of her life, I went from happily married to completely divorced in about 2 weeks. She was very detached and couldn't understand why I was hurt and upset. She was very condescending, santimonious and self-righteous. It drove me fvcking nuts. I wasn't terribly nice either, saying and doing many hurtful things.
Looking back a few things stand out as to why we were able to work it out.
- We NEVER talked about anything in front of the kids. In the early days, there as just a bit more than a tad of hard feelings, especially on my part.
- Setting boundaries was really important. For me, it was insisting that we only talked about kid stuff and only by email. I even got call display so I could avoid her phone calls. She'd leave message and I'd respond by email.
- As Rustic said, questioning each other's parenting styles is off limits. She tried to control how I parented just as she'd done while we were together. I listened but didn't often bow to her commandments. Sometimes she had a valid point and I would grudgingly admit it. It went the other way too occasionally.
- To this day, I stay away from her space as much as possible. It still feels creepy being in her house so I rarely go there. It was especially creepy last weekend with the new love of her life being there for my stepson's graduation dinner. For a long time I told her that my home was off limits to her, 'cause she has no qualms about wandering in and around my place. She's never been on my sailboat, nor will she ever be welcome aboard.
- As Rustic said too, we had to agree to the BUSINESS of raising kids, which is one of the reasons I get a bit choked when she quits her jobs.
- Another point from Rustic is the act of forgiveness. I will never forget but I have forgiven both her and myself.
- Boundaries around personal lives is important too. She and I will NEVER be friends, despite her overtures to be friends over the years. Somtimes, a person's actions make them permanently unlikeable. I had to tell her to leave me alone. I made it clear that my personal life is none of her business and hers is none of mine.
So, I may not like her or have much respect for her on a personal level, but I DO trust her with our kids because I KNOW that she's a great mom. It took her a while, but she knows I'm a great dad. That acknowledgement on both sides is key.
Looking over what I wrote about, I guess it all comes down to setting and maintaining boundaries. It took a long time for me to just bite my tongue and shut up. Once I'd figured that out, I found the less I said, the less I wanted to say.
Anyway....
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 11:06:24 AM | Should you put up with this for the sake of your daughter or not? Is that really the big question here? I think the big question should be, is there anyone in your family or his, sane, and capable of taking care of this very young child who has been physically abused, is being emotionally abused by BOTH parents, and is also being USED by BOTH parents to attack one another. I think BOTH of you, from the extensive horror story told here, have anger issues, are completely irresponsible when it comes to the well being of this small girl, are abusive, and enjoy fighting far more than parenting. I feel so sorry for your child it truly makes me sick. Running around with a video camera, as if that makes any sense.
Only the little girl's father is running around taping things.
Endless pointless arguments, name calling, slapping one another, in front of your child. It's disgraceful! BOTH of you, should be ashamed as this IS simply disgraceful behavior for parents! Any parent, who sees a child has been physically abused to the point of bruising, should immediately CALL THE POLICE!
The little girl's mother did do that, she called in everyone short of the cavalry .
Here's my suggestion, instead of spending time posting to a forum, which obviously is just one more realm for fighting between the two of you, why don't you BOTH, get some good counseling WHILE LISTENING, LEARN what it IS to be a parent, or find this child a new HOME with a REAL PARENT. This won't make me popular but I call it as I see it. If you didn't want opinions you shouldn't have asked. This poor little girl, her life sounds like a horrible nightmare you two made for her to live in. Absolutely disgusting.
Wow, over react much? Both parents are very responsible and are trying to work this out despite some very large hurdles they must overcome. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 11:17:58 AM | Rustic
We can talk about anything together without conflict. One thing we do not do, is question each others parenting style or house rules. The only time I would question is if I felt my daughter was being neglected or effected in some way..
capitano_blaugh
- As Rustic said, questioning each other's parenting styles is off limits. She tried to control how I parented just as she'd done while we were together. I listened but didn't often bow to her commandments. Sometimes she had a valid point and I would grudgingly admit it. It went the other way too occasionally.
These are the two most important pieces of information I gleaned from both Rustic's and the Captain's excellent posts, which were both chock full of great advice. | |
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Phan59
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Msg: 90 | |
| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 11:57:37 AM | future shock, all in the soul, one and the same....rather thinly veiled...
u did not, call the police. You tattled on this man to child services to keep it going. You did NOT protect your child! He beat your tiny daughter leaving bruises. She was what then, 2?,3? He needs HELP! PROFESSIONAL HELP, before he can safely be with her! So do YOU! And if you would, be a real MOTHER, and protect your child, this would REMOVE YOU from this man's life, and clearly, you can't get enough of HIM! You are not about to leave all this drama that fuels you. How exciting this must be for you! Battling this little girls childhood away.
u expect everyone in the whole wide world to feel so sorry for you. But, we feel for the CHILD! You're a very disreputable person as a mother, and enjoy every single fight you get out of this man. You both posted enough for me to reach this conclusion. THREE YEARS, this little four year old child has had to go thru HELL. All the endless bickering and fighting. What is it, either of you hope to WIN? If you're, both parents, not ashamed of yourselves you surely SHOULD BE! And yes, I realize my advice falls on deaf ears. You posted, and asked for advice. You're here for attention, and he is TOO! Sorry excuses for parents, the both of you. I've been a mother for 25 years. You're both pathetic. | |
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Phan59
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Msg: 92 | |
| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 12:28:42 PM | | Who are you trying to kid? Intelligent adults who can see thru this nonsense? I stand by my earlier posts. You're the both of you, terrible parents, violent, abusive, RIDICULOUS, and I feel terribly sorry for the child involved. Fighting incessantly for three years!!! Sign up as how ever many posters you choose to pretend to be. PATHETIC! Yeah, this is a really funny....ROFL subject isn't it. Abuse of a 4 year old by both her parents. Not even, thinly veiled but OBVIOUS you're the same person! Look thru the thread! Get off the computer and see about your child! | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 1:03:58 PM | Phan59, you are really starting to ridicule yourself.
Itsallinthesoul has been on these forums for a VERY long time, and I have personally spoke to her over the phone and spent a lot of time exchanging emails with her. She is also someone I respect a lot. I have seen her struggle through the situation she was posting on this thread, I have spoken hours with her on the phone in the previous months about her situation and I have witnessed first hand the harsh decision she had to take, who she called, and how she did the best she could to protect her daughter while attempting to respect her father's right to see her.
It is incredibly insulting to see someone who doesn't know squat about her situation or her daughter's situation attempt to judge her like you do. You have no idea what she attempted, how she dealt with it or who the daughter's father truly is. When I read your post, I see a mad person who screams and yells, and frankly, I don't see how any of this is constructive for anyone reading this tread, let along constructive for itsallinthesoul, her daughter or her daughter's father.
On the other hand, Futurshock has only been here for a couple months and she had some major arguments with itsallinthesoul - some of which I am sure you can find if you read a bit through the forums. Futurshock and I don't have much points of agreement, different beliefs and different set of values. Futurshock is also an adept of quoting research all over her googling on the internet, and doing so in a way that I find perfectly anti-scientific (sorry Future, I don't wish to start a debate about this on this thread, but we can discuss it in private). Itsallinthesoul, on the other hand, has no desire for proving anything related to marriage or single parenting and does not rely on research to claim anything.
You have been on this forum for a little more than a month. Perhaps you should read some of the history before claiming things as big as mountains. The idea that they would be the same person is not only ridiculous, it is also highly entertaining.  | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 1:20:43 PM | OP,
he sounds like a bully, maybe you need to be assertive without being agressive or threatening (that's his line remember?). If you're getting councelling try and look at how you can be more pursuasive with him in an assertive way.
Remember you can't change anyone else, but you can change the way you act, and therefore the way people react to you. Get some coping strategies and techniques for dealing with him and the way he makes you feel. If he sees a different reaction in you he might start acting differently.
I get VE's, stress induced, am medicated with betablockers for it, such a blokey thing to get...wonder when my heart attack and mid-life crises are due ? I am getting great stress councelling though.
Councelling's great, love it | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 5:40:32 PM | I'm back....muhahahahaha I just couldn't stay away from these damn forums. Now on top of the counselling I am already doing, I will need to find or start a POF support group for those of us who are POF forum addicts. Hi, I'm allitsinthesoul and I'm powerless over the draw of the POF forums.......
I'm going to ignore a certain someone's rants.....you guys handled her just fine. Thanks by the way.
I do have to say though...Futureshock and I being the same person....I laughed so hard my stomach hurt so thanks for that! I learned a while back to discard the 10% extreme and that post was definately in the lower 10% but there were a few on the other end of the spectrum that don't apply to our situation.
I've been watching and reading this thread and following along. I am not perfect and have never claimed to be 100% innocent in these occasional messes. I've had choices every step of the way and I've made them, consciously or subconsciously and accept full responsbility for my part in the mess. I've made all the amends I am prepared to make for the sins of how I treated Otis both during my pregnancy and for the year following the birth of our daughter. Otis can either choose to stop living in the past or he can choose forgiveness and begin to see me for who I am today, not who I was 4-5 years ago. I am content and happy with the relationship I have with our daughter and the kind of parent I am and who I am as a person. He can choose to accept me for who I am or not but I have set some boundaries that I will be vigilant about from this point forward.
Our daughter is not aware of the issues between us. She has been witness only about 5 times in 4 years to us arguing.....I'm sure there are plenty of married folks who can't say the same. We both shield and protect her from the at-times dsyfunctional relationship we have with each other. It is the way we do it that sometimes is misunderstood by the other parent and causes rather difficult feelings to manage.
I was going to address some of the things that Otis said in his post to this thread but I'm choosing not to. I called him after reading his post to assure him that I was not angry with him and that what he wrote was not going to inflame what was already a tense time between us. I know why he wrote what he wrote and he has his perceptions of what has happened and his own interpretations of why I did some of the things I did. The only reason I would have to defend myself against his remarks is to protect my rep on this board. I decided quite simply that who I am is someone most of you who have read my posts over the years know and you are intelligent folks with a good sense of judgement.
Most of you are right, we are both committed to raising our daughter and we both love her very much. This thread was never intended to be a "let's bash otis and feel sorry for itsallinthesoul" type of thread and I would be very upset if it ended up to be one. I posted this because I felt (a) it was a topic that many people who share children deal with and (b) I wanted to get a variety of opinions on the situation, how they handled/overcame it and how things are today.
Cap, I have to tell you that of all the posts, I appreciated the honesty and sincerity of your posts the most. Thank you for sharing your story. Your softness was showing...you might want to hide that again or the ladies will start hitting on you....
Futureshock - we have certainly gone head to head quite a bit since you ventured onto this forum a few months back and at times I can tell you that I have wanted to biatch slap you but I am starting to respect you and understand you more and more. You only searched, found and posted one source from the net....that is freakin awesome....we might get to see the humanity behind your research skills on this board yet. I guess in some ways, because we often disagree and go toe to toe, your words "hit" me in a way other's didn't simply because we aren't yet "friends" and haven't totally achieved a degree of mutual respect for one another...but that is changing I think.
Rustic, you know how I feel about you...I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, and love ya my friend, even when you tell me things I don't want to hear. I'm looking forward to a rematch of chess soon on the net...I will beat you yet...maybe....
ConsciousSoul - I wanted to thank you for coming to my defense in this thread against that one poster and for your words of support as well. I would have called you this weekend but I lost your number and I spend my weekend hanging with my daughter outside playing and swimming at the pool. I went out Saturday night with my neighbours and for the first time in years, I had a bit too much to drink....but it felt good to let go and unwind. 
Tealwood - No, we don't always agree and have to say that I think you were a bit tough on carolann, but I appreciated that you noticed I had closed my account and posted that poem....um...you do know that was about a family pet, most likely a dog right?
It is ok though...tis the thought that counts always, never the gift itself. 
Packagedeal - Darlin you have wise words of wisdom in many of your posts and they didn't go unnoticed by me. 
Freetime - we have often not seen eye to eye on these boards and I've held a rather low opinion of you that recently changed.....you could have said so much more than you did and taken advantage of the situation but for whatever reason, you chose not too and I thank you for that. Your posts resonated with me and I appreciate what you said and especially the way you said it. 
To everyone else, the important thing to always focus on is the best interests of our daughter and I am 100% committed to that. I can't say Otis is anything based upon what I've been through with him...all I can say is how I am affected by what I've been through with him and it has been very difficult to say the least but there have been some positives along the way in terms of lessons learned from him that are invaluable to me. I cannot judge his parenting, only our daughter can do that.
I do not ever wish to take action of any kind towards him that would negatively impact on our daughter or him out of vengeance. Even when I threatened to do it to him (years ago), it felt wrong to me and still does.
I am content that our daughter has the opportunity to have a good relationship with both her parents under our 50/50 shared custody agreement. I am able to separate our shiat from his role as father to our daughter. Aside from that one incident in May of 2008, I have no reason to believe that he is abusing her in any way. I am not a supporter of corporal punishment but I fully accept that he was/is but he has also seen the benefits of positive "teaching" over punishment and uses that method alot more frequently. It is easy to see it when our daughter talks about the things that have happened in her life when I've not been there to witness that her father is also a positive influence in her life. We agree on much more than we disagree upon these days and the consistency we bring to her life is invaluable to her development and overall well-being. The rest can be dealt with differently and I am going to take some of the things suggested in this thread and apply them and hope for the best.
Now, I'm off to peruse the other threads! See you guys around the forums.... and can be very therapeutic you know....  | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 5:59:35 PM | I haven't finished reading, but I've seen some stuff that I must comment on.
First I was physcially abused by my ex, stabbed with car keys, bitten till I bled, etc. I will credit the police for arresting her for that. I never raised a hand to her. It was the failure of the courts to charge her properly. Simple Assualt, vs. Domestic Violence. This mistake prolonged our criminal court battles. So women can be arrested for DV also, it isn't a male thing.
That being said we get along great now. And we share custody. This was what the best result was for our son. He is the happier for it so shared custody (daily exchanges) do work.
Even while she was getting the help she needed, she had supervised visitation, through our safe havens program. She would enter the vistiation site,15 mins prior to the visit, and go to the visitation room. I would enter on time, through an opposite door. Drop off my son, and exit. Both of us were searched by the county police as per the rules. After the hour visit or so the social worker would give our son to me, I would exit and she would leave 15 mins later. There is always an option for the non custodial parent to be given a chance to parent. Everything was documented and given to the courts.
The above might be a good bridge for the two of you.
Forgiveness, Forgiveness, Forgiveness. It is hard but once you have that the shared custody becomes easier. In the begining it was very structured on times and public locations, now home exchanges are okay and times are what is convient for both of us. I hope that helps. | |
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Phan59
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Msg: 100 | |
| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/29/2009 6:10:15 PM | | The history is posted, two adults in their FORTIES mind you, who cannot, or refuse to, deal with one another in a civil manner for the sake of their VERY YOUNG child. Two parents in their forties continuing to fight, bicker, name call, and just in general be disagreeable over anything and everything for three YEARS of a 4 yr olds life. All in has a teenaged son as well. Future and all in seem very similar, if not the same especially on this thread IMO. This parenting situation is, ridiculous and not in the childs best interests. Someone so young, only 4, should not be subjected to this continuing FEUD with no end, from BOTH her PARENTS. Allin is unable to come up with any reasonable solution, and can't seem to stop herself from engaging her ex in these never ending battles, even with THREE YEARS of advice and solutions offered to her by judges, lawyers, child protective workers, counselors, neighbors, police, and now many posters here as well. Based on the information given in this thread, even more attention is what the original poster is seeking for herself, rather than seeking a SOLUTION for her childs sake. This mother could easily refuse to see or speak with her ex, clearly she has no intent to STOP THIS. Some posters feel this child's situation or concerned opinions are somehow humorous. I don't find it funny for an innocent child to be used as a weapon by parents who like to fight. My opinions here are on an open forum where advice was asked for. You may not like my opinions, but I am entitled to post them based on my POF membership. | |
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