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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 7/10/2009 6:45:12 AM |
And SHE is what is most important in this situation... not Otis. Not his fear, not his anger, not his disappointment that things aren't going his way.
The SHE in that statement, being our daughter, not me. I agree. My feelings, his feelings are essentially irrelevant because we are not in a relationship and neither of us want to be in one. It is our daughter's feelings that matter, her needs that trump ours, her rights that supercede ours.
I can have the opinion that Otis is an arrogant pr!ck and he can have the opinion that I'm a fvcking biatch but when we allow our opinions of each other to hurt our daughter, the one doing it is failing our daughter immeasurably.
Since I started this thread, Otis and I have once again reached a point of "peace" between us. He still cannot call my home number but he can reach me on my cellular at any time. He and our daughter have headed out of town for five days to visit with his family out of town. They arrived late Wednesday night and early Thursday morning, I got a lovely call from our daughter (off speakerphone).  I spoke to him briefly following my conversation with our daughter and thanked him for facilitating the phone call. Maybe he did go back and read this thread, maybe he has realized that I am her advocate, not his, although I would love to be able to do both. Only time will tell but I do want to say how grateful I am to everyone who gave me some advice on this issue. I have taken much of it to heart.
Being a stubborn woman, I don't throw in the towel easily and I know that life is not always an easy ride to be on. I will continue to work on those things I need to work on and I will continue to love and advocate for our daughter. Those are things I can work on specifically with her.
Last weekend, I received a call from Otis requesting I come and "rescue our daughter" (his words). They had gotten into it and she was in her room upset. The stressor was her underwear were too small for her. She used her words and explained to her father that her underwear were too small but for some reason it escalated into a slapping match between the two of them with her crying for me and him trying to teach her that she wouldn't win the slapping challenge. I hesitated to get involved because I was fearful it would come back and bite me in the butt later but I told him I would do the following:
1. Pick up a week's worth of size 4 underwear for our daughter (she had 2/3 at dads).
2. Pick up breakfast for all of us at Tim Hortons
3. Reinforce to her that hitting was inappropriate (the lesson he wanted to reinforce).
and
4. Mediate between the two of them what was a better way for them to deal with their anger/frustration with each other. I told him I would be saying in front of them both that they were BOTH wrong for the slapping contest.....that both of them should be keeping their hands to themselves.
He agreed to those terms so I went over and did what I said I would do. I guided them towards realizing that when either is angry or frustrated with the other, they needed to separate for a bit and calm down before they could address the issue. I asked Dad what he could do when he was getting angry/frustrated....he didn't have an answer...I suggested perhaps he take his own timeout from our daughter and use that time to see the "big picture". I asked her what she could do when she was getting angry/frustrated and she didn't have an answer either. I reminded her about her "toolkit" and she started to list the things she could do to calm herself down.....squeeze the stress ball, blow air into a balloon and let it go, take deep breaths to name a few.
I don't "enjoy" getting those phone calls and this hasn't been the first time I've received such a call. I am just glad that he reaches out for my support in these times. I do hope that eventually, I will not have to because he will learn how to consistently avoid these situations in the first place. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 7/10/2009 11:29:45 AM | | Why is he angry with her because her underwear are too small? It's OBVIOUSLY PAINFUL to wear clothes that are too tight. She's only a little girl for crying out loud! She's not an adult. It sounds sometimes like he is expecting her to act like she's 21. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 7/10/2009 11:50:31 AM | Our daughter for most of her life has had issues with her clothing...the socks don't fit just right, the sleeves are the right length, her pants aren't tight enough, her underwear is too tight, the sky is falling the sky is falling. Her behaviour is "over the top" at these times but it is because SHE feels so uncomfortable and want us to fix it for her.
To mitigate this, about 3 months ago, I suggested that one of us be responsible for purchasing her clothes and she takes the clothes back and forth each week to the other home. As annoying as that sounds, it has done wonders for the virtual elimination of clothing issues which were present because the clothes at Dad's house and the clothes at Mom's house were different sizes. I asked him at the time if we should also exchange socks/underwear and pjs and he said no, he could take care of those things.
He wasn't angry with her because her underwear were too small. I believe he was frustrated because (a) she can make such a monumental deal out of it and (b) I had told him over a month ago to replace her smaller underwear for a size 4 because I was starting to run into these issues at my home and he didn't do the shopping. He couldn't fix it and tried to coax her into the small underwear and she got mad and hit him...the slap fest ensued with both of them sitting on the floor in front of a mirror slapping each other. She was crying and asking for me but continued to slap him when he slapped her. She told me that Daddy started it when I was talking about the slapping. She told me he slapped her "everywhere" first. He said she started it. So I took the position that I didn't care who started what...they were both wrong for using their hands. That it sounded to me like I was dealing with the behaviour of two 4 years old and not one 4 year old and a 43 year old man did not escape me as I'm sure it has not escaped you.
Yes, I do believe that his expectations of her are too high and that does exasperate the issues they have between them. I'm a pro-active personality, he is a reactive personality when it comes to parenting. I think ahead as to what problems might arise and head them off before they become a problem and he does not. If he had realized her underwear were getting tight on her and gone and bought some larger sized underwear for her, that would not have happened. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:02:05 PM | OMG I am just flabbergasted. i cannot imagine hitting a child back like that. I had an issue as a child over tags in the backs of shirts, and fabrics that were horribly itchy and uncomfortable. I still do. All of my shirts, blouses, etc., have the tags ripped out of them. All of my clothing is very soft.
It is very cruel to force a child to wear something that they find uncomfortable. There is no cajoling them into it. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:18:58 PM |
It is very cruel to force a child to wear something that they find uncomfortable. There is no cajoling them into it.
I agree with you. While I find her behaviour at times relating to clothing over the top, I accept that I simply don't understand it but out of respect for her feelings/comfort, I acknowledge it and ensure she is with me when clothes are purchased for her. She knows what she wants/doesn't want. She, at the age of 4, tries everything on before I purchase it because even when she likes it, sometimes she puts it on and freaks out because it doesn't fit right. If she says ok, I buy it and she wears it. Occasionally she tries to tell me later she doesn't like it anymore to which I reply "You picked it out though...." and then miraculously she will put it on without a fuss.
Interesting about the tags...they annoy her sometimes also. I don't cut them out until she asks though and not all of her clothes have them cut out. I spoke to her counsellor about this aspect and was advised how to handle it. Her counsellor told me that in her case, it seemed to be about control for her, similar to the way some children/teens might use food. As our daughter's life has stabilized, she only starts to freak out in that "over the top way" about her clothing at times when there is something else going on. When she is with me, I can see what has triggered it, but I don't know what triggers this when she is with Dad.
As a parent, there are battles worth having and battles not worth having...this one is NOT worth having when it can be so easily remedied for her and for us. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:38:00 PM | I realize I don't know your daughter, but trust me, please. The tags feel so awful they make me cringe just thinking about them. It has nothing to do with control. Sometimes there is no deeper answer than just the obvious, it doesn't feel good.
*
Banish Itchy Shirt Labels Without Scissors
If you have an itchy clothing label that you'd like to be rid of but you don't want to risk damaging the seam with scissors, or you want to keep the tag on but decrease the itch factor there is an excellent solution over at parenting blog Parent Hacks:
Why did I never think of this before hacking off a bunch of my daughter's shirt tags? (I inevitably break the thread of the neck and a hole is born.) I got a little piece of iron-on no-sew hemming tape and tacked the tag down. No itching and no chance to ruin the shirt with my over-zealous tag removal.
A tiny bit of no-sew tape, an iron, and no more scratchy tags wiggling about your shirts.
http://lifehacker.com/5075007/banish-itchy-shirt-labels-without-scissors | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 7/11/2009 9:13:59 PM | | i was in a reletionship with my sons dad for 3 years. I wanted him in my sons life so he moved here from cali. He started drinking and being violent. We tryed to work it out but if the reletionship is unhappy you shouldnt stay for the kids sake because they will grow up feeling the tension between you two. Live apart if it means you two can get along better. Its better for the kids involved. They pick up on that kind of stuff. | |
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luvgnc
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Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 161 | |
| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 7/12/2009 5:26:16 PM | Yikes!!
I can't even imagine where you are mentally after living with someone like this. You're probably intimidated by him I'm guessing. If you are willing to go through the courts, well, I do wonder if supervised visitation would be an option in this case. Definitely tell your daughter that she should tell you if any person ever harms her so you can do something about it. Keep a journal too in case you ever do need to go to court. I suggest the book "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" so you can clearly see cases (in writing) that sound so much like yours. I advise you to not defend yourself or tell him anything. If he tells you "Your a piece of shit" well, maybe just "I don't agree with what you were saying earlier. I have different thoughts." Then yes, I guess you have to hang up. You can get info from your daughter about how he treats her in the home. I have seen parents who do not communicate with each other and have restraining orders out on one or the other (I work at a drop off childcare which they use for drop off and pick up in the custody arrangement). But, sad to say, look forward to him trying to get back at you through your child. He may do things like let her watch a lot of tv, eat junk food, punish her in ways he knows you don't like. All for your reaction. It's really sad. I think you ought to secure a lawyer now and a social worker too. Perhaps you could get full physical custody down the line. I also saw a good book at the bookstore the other day. I think it was called "what every woman should know about child custody" or something like that. Anyhow, if you feel it's best now to get full custody and have him on visitation, maybe you ought to fight for that. But this is hard because he's got his issues. You've likely lost your marbles a bit having dealt with him and with your own stuff you brought to the table in the first place ( I know because I'm there often times too) and now your daughter is having to deal with this stuff. I'm guessing she hears some of what he says and I'm sure if he's abusive to you, well, he is probably at least verbally abusive to her in some ways and it seems he's physically abusive too. I know it's hard to fight a person like him. In the end though, you may have to in order to keep your daughter safe. Just make sure she tells you EVERYTHING. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:20:45 AM | In any update for those of you who were curious and those who may be going through something similar, I decided to resurrect this thread.
The situation has escalated to the point where I have had to tell him that I feel we are both doing a great disservice to our daughter trying to get along. I was completely honest with him and told him that I do not like him as a person and that I realize it is my opinion of him only...others (including him) may disagree with my assessment of his personality. He is resistent to accepting this is the way I feel for whatever reason and still feels we should try and get along with each other. He is and always has been a bully when it came to dealing with me....his way or the highway.
He is still not permitted to call my home even though he requested recently that I unblock him from doing so. I held my ground and refused, reminding him that I have a cell phone he can call anytime and if I do not answer, he may leave a message. He was not happy about my decision.
He has been respectful with respect to entering my home uninvited (he does not do it). I step outside to talk if there is something he needs to tell me with respect to our daughter.
I have started looking after her since Sept before school (til 1pm) Monday to Friday. I am able to do this because my work schedule is flexible (self-employed). While he is currently unemployed, he brings her to my home each morning the week she is with him for childcare. Co-incidentally (or not), the behaviour of our daughter has seen remarkable improvement since September.
To anyone who is struggling with joint physical custody or struggling with dealing with the other parent, I will share what I have learned.
The less we speak the better it is.
I share no opinion with him unless he specifically asks for it.
I ignore his unsolicited opinions...don't even say thanks.
I focus only on our daughter ... I really don't care what is going on in his life.
I listen to what our daughter tells me and document what I am told.
I do share with him what our daughter has to say with respect to his relationship with her (both the good and the bad) if he wants to hear it - I always ask first.
What I am still working on......
Accepting that time will tell with our daughter. I do suspect that at some point in the next few years she will be in a position to articulate her dissatisfaction with the current situation and be allowed by the courts to have a say. Only then will I be able to act legally to invoke a change for her. I truly hope it does not turn out that way but quite frankly the writing is on the wall. She is increasingly unhappy with her father and the way he treats her and he is holding firm to his "methods" of dealing with her. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/6/2009 11:44:25 AM | Hi,
I'd recommend this book.
For the Sake of the Children (2nd Edition)
FNF's guide to shared parenting
by Sue Secker
After family breakdown, reaching agreement about children can be difficult. It seems far more common for children to live with one parent, usually the mother, and some fathers subsequently face an unequal struggle to remain part of their childrens' lives.
This practical guide is based on the experiences of FNF members and their families. It will be of interest to anyone wanting to ensure children get the best of both parents' worlds after family breakdown. It provides invaluable information about the real issues that have to be faced, such as dealing sensitively with your ex-partner, coping with the various agencies who may become involved and getting to grips with the legal system and the courts.
Don't ever give up hope. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:54:22 PM | | sometimes the man gets verbally abused and he knows that if he does anything...his ex is just waiting for an excuse for a restraining order or anything. she was keeping my daughter away from me and poisoning her head that i didn't love her enough. there's only so much to take before you realize that you've lost the child and nothing will be the same and the drama you have to put up with to see a child that does not think, feel, or has been raised anything like you want....sometimes they become a stranger and you have to take care of yourself, lick your wounds and survive. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:09:57 PM | Inncsearching....I am sorry that you experienced such a thing with your daughter. Many women do find it difficult to accept that men can feel as strong a bond and desire to be a parent AND know how to do the job as they do/can. I know more than a few men who have simply walked away from the drama, licked their wounds and carried on with their life, always feeling the loss of their child.
I can relate because there have been more than one time since the birth of my daughter when I have considered relinquishing all parental rights to her just to be rid of his bs. As difficult as it is, I found the strength to give it another go another time. Of course, our situation is somewhat different in that there is already a legal custody order in place negotiated by us when she was still a baby for 50/50 joint physical custody. Once that is in place and once the child has reached the verbal stage, the "need" for contact with the other parent is minimal.
Something to always consider though...it is not the quantity of time one spends with a child (or anyone for that matter) that determines the strength of the relationship, it is the relationship between the two that determines it.
When you made the decision to walk away from your daughter because of the drama, did it ever occur to you that the negativity about you would continue long after you left or did you assume "Out of sight, out of mind"? | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/9/2009 9:47:06 AM | Inncsearching, have you tried to maintain some type of contact? The reason I ask is that many people, particularly those that were controlled a great deal by a parent in terms of what they think, etc. change dramatically when they finally get out from under that parent and start living life.
She may have been led to believe that you didn't care when she was too young to process things by herself but she could easily look back on those years as an adult and recognize that you did try and what she believed was not the truth. She could also once she has children of her own, come to various realizations or just believe that no matter how she feels about you, she wants you around as a grandparent.
A relationship is never impossible until someone is dead. Keep a door open, one day she may walk through it. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/10/2009 11:35:16 PM | OK Listen.
You, the mom, need to learn to control this situation for your daughter.
You need to understand the limits of her father.
You divorced him right? You know that he doesn't have it in him to have a mature relationship with you, right? You're relationship between you two is over, right?
As long as she is safe while she's with him, you're okay. As long as neither of you talk about the other in a bad way to her, she's fine.
When the conversation between you two starts to go wrong, stop. Take a breath and make it work FOR your daughter. Do you hear me? Let the other crap go and with him only discuss her, her needs and issues. period.
Remind him that he's a good dad for caring.
Remind him that you really only care about her.
Make it work. You have along road ahead of you. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/13/2009 6:27:17 PM | | What is with you? He has physically put his hands on your daughter which apparently was upsetting. This man has cussed and threatened you repeatedly and your worried about getting a court order but really don't want to resort to that. Does your daughter not see and hear your disagreements? Wake up! HE PUT HIS HANDS ON YOUR CHILD WITH FORCE CAUSING BRUISING. Someone should call child protective services on him for putting his hands on her and you allowing it! Do you realize that he could seriously hurt her or worse. If any SOB put his hands on my daughter he be found 20 ft below the jail. I have been in a abusive relationship and I got a emergency protective order for me and my child. He has not been able to see her in 4 years but she doesn't want for anything and I go to bed knowing my child will not have to suffer at the hands of her abusive father. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/14/2009 10:43:53 AM | | You both are using this site to air before the world your dirty laundry. How pitiful? You both do not deserve this child! I don't know how children services work in Canada but YOU BOTH should be stripped of your parental rights, your both a pathetic excuse for parents. Shame on you both! | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/14/2009 9:01:00 PM | He couldn't fix it and tried to coax her into the small underwear and she got mad and hit him...the slap fest ensued with both of them sitting on the floor in front of a mirror slapping each other.
What a weirdo! A man in his forties in a slapfest with a four year old! I'm all for shared parenting when the divorced couple can get along and both are good parents but sorry lady your ex is a real piece of work. Don't worry about all those father's right advocates saying its unfair to see thier kids every other weekend. I am a father's rights advocate but "children's rights" are more important than "father's rights". In this case I really think your kid would be better off only seeing her weirdo father every other weekend.
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/21/2009 4:20:49 PM | I find it amusing that so many people misread and misinterpret peoples comments and stories.
Its been awhile since I've been on here but, Itsallinthesoul, you certainly opened Pandora's box with this thread.. ;)
Now you listen here!!.. haha.. I love those comments.. (I'm the expert, you listen to me and you better listen carefully)..Pick me, pick me.. I know the best advice..
You know my opinions, I don't need to spruke on about sh*t..
Everyone's situation differs and what works for some definitely doesn't work for others. Its hilarious reading some of the peoples idea's within this thread. How can these people decide a child's fate without even knowing the family, the parents, the child, the full history, the situation, the temperaments of the people involved, how the child feels about it all and so on.
Yes there were some incidents that happened but, the main problem is finding the happy medium for you and your ex and both learning that: Its no longer about you and him because you are no longer married, its simply about the child now and what works best for her.
There are so many people on here going on and on about smacking a child. Is it effective discipline? No. But, for some people that is what they were taught.
It seems to be the case that, if the couple are married then, smacking their child is not an issue. However, if they are separated, then, smacking, all of a sudden, becomes an issue and a tool for the other parent to use to their advantage when gaining access rights. (not talking about your case here Itsall)
Anyway, I've had my rant..
My advice?
Do what is right for you, your child, the father and "your" situation, not someone else's.
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/21/2009 5:54:21 PM | To me slapping kids is child abuse. Its not really a form of discipline, he did it out of anger and frustration because he is a pathetic man who cant control his temper and emotions. The parent cant teach thier kids to control themselves when they themselves are out of control. That is not effective discipline. The only thing he is teaching her is how to be a domestic violence victim when she is older.
Joint custody only works when both parents are normal decent people. The ex husband has too many issues for a joint custody arrangement. Lets face it if most couples had what it takes to have a peaceful and harmonious joint custody arrangement for thier kids they wouldnt have gotten divorced in the first place.
Reading about people like this makes me really respect the divorced couples with good joint custody parenting relationships since it must take alot of patience and compromise. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 11/22/2009 7:08:27 PM | HPotters, I agree with you that joint physical custody works best when the parents can get along....believe it or not it also can work when the two parents cannot get along as long as they respect each other's boundaries. That is the thing....it has taken us 4 years to establish boundaries that work for both of us and avoid the attempts to co-parent. We do parallel parenting now and it is working.
He spanked her that hard that one time over a year and a half ago...I reported him...they investigated and kept the file open for a year. He seems to be doing less physical punishment and our daughter is better for it. Of course I am still monitoring the situation as any parent would. The older our child gets, the more she is able to verbalize her feelings and she is not shy about doing it. It is hard for any parent to hear their child tell them how they feel about what the parent is doing...
I really don't mind the ignorant comments of some of the posters....like those who feel our daughter should be taken from both of our custody....I guess they have a reading comprehension problem or didn't bother to read it all or they would have seen that I did everything within my power legally then and now. I am a good mother and there is nothing anyone on this forum or in the real world could ever say/do to make me think otherwise. My 15 year old son is a testament to my parenting skills.
We have had a period of calm and it is my hope it continues. Anyone who has ever been in a relationship that resulted in a child and then split....it can be a difficult transition as agreements are reached and boundaries set up.....much of what I initiated this thread to discuss has been resolved. We are doing parallel parenting but I did not return to court to have our agreement altered...I set my boundaries and stood my ground. He has respected my boundaries and when we do talk, we are civil towards each other. | |
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